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General Discussion - Page 1358

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
Rayeth
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States883 Posts
October 29 2012 18:20 GMT
#27141
On October 30 2012 02:57 Asha` wrote:
Loda and Akke team up with the remains of No Tidehunter.

Will play with EternalEnvy, S4, and Admiral Bulldog


That's going to be a fun team to watch. Especially if someone forgets to ban Lone Druid, haha.
The Innocent shall suffer... big time.
Yoshi-
Profile Joined October 2008
Germany10227 Posts
October 29 2012 18:22 GMT
#27142
http://www.dreamhack.se/dhw12/2012/10/29/the-invited-teams-for-dota-2/
Dreamhack revealed invited teams for dota2
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
October 29 2012 18:24 GMT
#27143
On October 30 2012 03:22 Yoshi- wrote:
http://www.dreamhack.se/dhw12/2012/10/29/the-invited-teams-for-dota-2/
Dreamhack revealed invited teams for dota2


I didn't see any big surprises. I'll be interested to see how the new No Tidehunter does. If they do well, maybe a sponsorship would be in order? we can hope.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
teapoted
Profile Joined August 2012
United Kingdom24425 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-29 18:28:57
October 29 2012 18:27 GMT
#27144
On October 30 2012 03:24 Sn0_Man wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2012 03:22 Yoshi- wrote:
http://www.dreamhack.se/dhw12/2012/10/29/the-invited-teams-for-dota-2/
Dreamhack revealed invited teams for dota2


I didn't see any big surprises. I'll be interested to see how the new No Tidehunter does. If they do well, maybe a sponsorship would be in order? we can hope.
VP / Moscow 5. Maybe they can't go, who knows, but they certainly deserve it over AL/MYM.
Once you Goblak...
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42414 Posts
October 29 2012 18:30 GMT
#27145
On October 30 2012 03:22 Yoshi- wrote:
http://www.dreamhack.se/dhw12/2012/10/29/the-invited-teams-for-dota-2/
Dreamhack revealed invited teams for dota2


Yup, no big surprises there.
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
Brainling
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States660 Posts
October 29 2012 18:31 GMT
#27146
Didn't M5 break up? Or did they get a new team and I missed it?
"The welfare of each of us is dependent fundamentally upon the welfare of all of us." - Theodore Roosevelt
Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34505 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-29 18:37:44
October 29 2012 18:33 GMT
#27147
edit; Nvm mixing them up with darer.
Moderator
teapoted
Profile Joined August 2012
United Kingdom24425 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-29 18:34:24
October 29 2012 18:34 GMT
#27148
M5 got second during the only portion of SL. They've looked kinda shit since then, but still.

New team consisting only of Bulgarians which frankly no one had heard of before this. As far as I know they haven't been doing too well at all.
That's Darer.
Once you Goblak...
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
October 29 2012 18:40 GMT
#27149
More general discussion: I know that the win-rate is really close to 50-50, but does anybody else feel like dire has a zillion advantages? Lemme list the ones I can think of:

a) Rosh (duh)
b) Easier long lane (IMO) due to things like double-camp blocking with 1 ward, and the rune ward that also gives decent safety vision to the lane
c) way more pulls in your jungle (easies, mediums AND hards all pullable)
d) mid lane is substantially harder to gank without tower diving and/or being seen by the tower. Coming from bottom, ganking dire mid requires a tower dive, while ganking radiant mid does not. Coming from top, both lanes see anybody coming from a mile away anyway.
e) the jungle is better for certain heroes who need to bounce from easies to mediums for a while (new lycan, etc). Obviously its worse for heroes that can do mediums really early and want to do both mediums, but even then one is often warded.

Only thing I can think of for radiant is: Mid has access to easy jungle creeps for some quick farm between waves, and some jungling is easier for radiant.

Maybe also some small benefits to ease of ganking as radiant bot from mid and mid from bot? dunno.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Brainling
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States660 Posts
October 29 2012 18:42 GMT
#27150
I actually find the Radiant jungle to be better in most cases, for both the jungler and anyone pulling the hard lane...but I don't have enough game experience to speak definitively.

(It could just be that I tend to jungle/pull a lot as Radiant, so I know the patterns of that side of the jungle...I need to load some bot games and get my Dire side knowledge up to that level)
"The welfare of each of us is dependent fundamentally upon the welfare of all of us." - Theodore Roosevelt
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42414 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-29 18:45:07
October 29 2012 18:44 GMT
#27151
oops, linked already. Liking the No tidehunter line-up!
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
Incze
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Romania2058 Posts
October 29 2012 19:01 GMT
#27152
So far I've played only 3 games with centaur and he was on my team every time, and we lost every single one of those matches.
This was before the nerf, too

Religion: Buckethead
Firebolt145
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Lalalaland34505 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-29 19:04:43
October 29 2012 19:03 GMT
#27153
On October 30 2012 04:01 Incze wrote:
So far I've played only 3 games with centaur and he was on my team every time, and we lost every single one of those matches.
This was before the nerf, too


Statistically, he has a ~67% winrate, meaning a ~33% lossrate, which means that there is a 3.5% chance of you losing all 3 games with Centaur on your team.

It happens.

edit: though I would guess that he has a lower winrate at lower MMR's and a higher winrate at higher MMR's, but who knows.
Moderator
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
October 29 2012 19:06 GMT
#27154
On October 30 2012 03:40 Sn0_Man wrote:
c) way more pulls in your jungle (easies, mediums AND hards all pullable)

This one's harder to call. Remember that the the easy/inner hard camp for Sentinel are pullable to mid lane, and Sentinel can triple pull, while with Scourge it's only really possible to double pull.
Moderator
Incze
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Romania2058 Posts
October 29 2012 19:08 GMT
#27155
Well, I'm high towards very high. I suppose that in very high peoplke actually know what to do with him. No one down here ever seems to realize how spammable that ulti really is, they cast it whenever
Religion: Buckethead
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
October 29 2012 19:25 GMT
#27156
On October 30 2012 04:06 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2012 03:40 Sn0_Man wrote:
c) way more pulls in your jungle (easies, mediums AND hards all pullable)

This one's harder to call. Remember that the the easy/inner hard camp for Sentinel are pullable to mid lane, and Sentinel can triple pull, while with Scourge it's only really possible to double pull.


Are you talking about stacking, or about pulling, then "continuing" the pull, as it were, re-aggroing your creeps to the next jungle camp? Because if I pull to unstacked dire easies/mediums, then "continue" the pull to the respective nearby hards, then I'm not seeing an issue here

And I'll admit, the mid pull can be a big deal, but you have to be careful with it or your mid hero will end up down a tower while dire mid also gets complete rune control and will be "mia" potentially forcing your other lanes into passivity (less an issue in high-tier games).

My other thought is that the dire suicide-laner has an easier time stacking ancients for his carry/himself depending on team composition (although obviously radiant mid has it easier if it is tinker, so dunno). Plus, due to lane lengths, Dark Seer on dire suicide can surge a creep into tower to pull the lane back to his own tower, whereas its much harder (impossible?) to surge the creep from radiant suicide into tower.

I play a lot of suicide lane, and I muuuuuuch prefer dire haha.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
crms
Profile Joined February 2010
United States11933 Posts
October 29 2012 19:28 GMT
#27157
On October 30 2012 04:25 Sn0_Man wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 30 2012 04:06 TheYango wrote:
On October 30 2012 03:40 Sn0_Man wrote:
c) way more pulls in your jungle (easies, mediums AND hards all pullable)

This one's harder to call. Remember that the the easy/inner hard camp for Sentinel are pullable to mid lane, and Sentinel can triple pull, while with Scourge it's only really possible to double pull.



My other thought is that the dire suicide-laner has an easier time stacking ancients for his carry/himself depending on team composition (although obviously radiant mid has it easier if it is tinker, so dunno). Plus, due to lane lengths, Dark Seer on dire suicide can surge a creep into tower to pull the lane back to his own tower, whereas its much harder (impossible?) to surge the creep from radiant suicide into tower.

I play a lot of suicide lane, and I muuuuuuch prefer dire haha.



I too play a lot of suicide and agree Dire is better in most cases but on dark seer as you said, I really like the radiant suicide more. Not only can you keep lane control but when you're really winning the lane the jungle camps are easier to hit up while the lane is pushed at tower. Feels way nicer to be able to farm dire jungle and lane from radiant suicide. I don't have as much success doing things like that as dire suicide dark seer even if i am winning the lane.
http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png | Fighting games are great
Sn0_Man
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Tebellong44238 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-29 19:36:28
October 29 2012 19:36 GMT
#27158
Good point on the jungle farming. I rarely bother doing that (I'll run in and drop a shell on one of the river mediums and/or the hards every so often if the lane is too pushed when I'm dire) but I really should do it more often. I'm not exactly pro-tier here. The ability to pull as Radiant suicide is also pretty sweet, although competent teams often counter you pretty quick.

To be honest, the ward that dire can place to see bot rune + the jungle beside the lane is the biggest thing for me. Opponents rarely counter it nearly as soon as they should. And of course how easy it is for Beastmaster to farm the ancients lol. Oh yeah, and depending on lane control I kinda feel like bounty has more places to hide and leech XP as dire suicide as well (down in the radiant jungle).

Edit: Oh god wall of text. Carriage returns ftw.
LiquidDota StaffSCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302
Qbek
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
Poland12923 Posts
October 29 2012 19:38 GMT
#27159
Having played a lot of garena and b.net games, I'm used to playing on sentinel coz we always had our own host so I feel rather odd on dire. There are some juke spots that are fairly common that I only experienced from the diving side, not being dived for example
This space left intentionally dank /)3(\ http://i.imgur.com/RmeEUcF.png
BurningSera
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland19621 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-29 19:45:06
October 29 2012 19:43 GMT
#27160
Did anyone ask for pictures?

[image loading]
-

[image loading]
-
they are from the guide in the strategy forum.
is 2017, stop being lame, fuck's sakes. 'Can't wait for the rise of the cakes and humanity's last stand tbqh.'
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