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On October 26 2012 22:40 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 22:32 Talron wrote:
If drow should leave the trueshot aura turned on the whole game, she will permanently push out all the lanes, taking space from HER team, to farm safely and giving it the enemy team instead, because the equilibrium is permanently in their favor. Also while drow's DPS increased and she's helping her team more overall, she still has the same problems. Lack of survivability, no flashfarm ability, no escape mechanism. She's strong now, but beating her down with the nerfstick right away would be the wrong way to go about it.
As far as centaur goes a CD & manacost increase is all stampede needs. Not just permanently push out lanes. If the opponent doesn't defend their towers at all times then the permanent pushing will take down several towers. And once you got the opponent's T1/2 down, that leaves no space for the opponent to safely farm.
If the enemies let their towers go down by just creeps the whole game, instead of defending them, resulting in losing all the tier 1 & 2 towers, they deserve to lose.
Also as I said: Your team will starve for gold in the long run, because they can't go farm safeley, while the creeps are pushing at all times and the towergold won't make up for it. The enemies will hug to their tower and have safe income, while your teamm will always be in a dangerous position, unless you group up. When pushing you obviously should turn the aura on, however if you leave it on the whole time it will backfire, unless you already have a set of rax and looking forward to get another one.
tl;dr: Don't activate the aura the whole time. It's not good.
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On October 26 2012 22:39 Senx wrote:
Any tips on a good and safe 1v2 hero on safelane? we're running 2/1/1/1 with a jungler and its low level play so I usually end up in a 1v2 lane since they always run 2/1/2.
lone druid
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On October 26 2012 22:55 Talron wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 22:40 Heh_ wrote:On October 26 2012 22:32 Talron wrote:
If drow should leave the trueshot aura turned on the whole game, she will permanently push out all the lanes, taking space from HER team, to farm safely and giving it the enemy team instead, because the equilibrium is permanently in their favor. Also while drow's DPS increased and she's helping her team more overall, she still has the same problems. Lack of survivability, no flashfarm ability, no escape mechanism. She's strong now, but beating her down with the nerfstick right away would be the wrong way to go about it.
As far as centaur goes a CD & manacost increase is all stampede needs. Not just permanently push out lanes. If the opponent doesn't defend their towers at all times then the permanent pushing will take down several towers. And once you got the opponent's T1/2 down, that leaves no space for the opponent to safely farm. If the enemies let their towers go down by just creeps the whole game, instead of defending them, resulting in losing all the tier 1 & 2 towers, they deserve to lose. Also as I said: Your team will starve for gold in the long run, because they can't go farm safeley, while the creeps are pushing at all times and the towergold won't make up for it. The enemies will hug to their tower and have safe income, while your teamm will always be in a dangerous position, unless you group up. When pushing you obviously should turn the aura on, however if you leave it on the whole time it will backfire, unless you already have a set of rax and looking forward to get another one. tl;dr: Don't activate the aura the whole time. It's not good.
Well, good luck having at least 1 hero on each lane at all times throughout the entire game, even if the opponent team (with drow) is grouping up to push/gank. If 3/4 heroes come to a lane to gank/push down the tower, 1: they don't need to wait long for creep waves to get to the tower 2: if others come TP to defend, you now have undefended lanes.
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Lalalaland34505 Posts
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On October 26 2012 23:15 Firebolt145 wrote:
CW is retarded.
Don't insult poor rattletrap
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My last comment has been misinterpreted and I sincerely apologize for it, but I wanted to point out that every hero has his strengths and weaknesses, and just because a hero isn't used in the pro scene that doesn't mean he is useless.
Drow was a mediocre hero that could hard carry with plenty of farm. The only problem is that she lacked a escape mechanism (Frost Arrows is too short on heroes; and her silence has quite a long casting animation so it can't be used on the fly; the few points of extra armor she would get from Marksmanship were almost null and void) and a way to power creep (or flash farm, whatever). You want a good ranged carry that can also gank? Get clinkz, get a fast orchid and pick off supports every now and then. Or pick NP and assist every gank. The examples can go on.
At the moment, she still needs a lot of farm to be dangerous, and, just like before, she can't get it in time. Of course if you let her free farm for 20 minutes without ganking while feeding her kills she can get out of control, but so can any other hero. The issue comes from her strong chasing ability, so it means you can't really overcommit when diving her or change you mind at the last minute.
Her aura, while a strong global pushing ability (with all the pros and cons a creep steroid has) creates a dilemma: how do you skill her early, when she's VERY vulnerable? Max aura with 1 point of arrows and silence (=> can't gank or teamfight, you can only afk rice farm)? Max arrows and then silence (so you delay the push)? Max silence first for early engagements? What about getting a level or two of stats early to make you less squishy?
You will probably see her as a 1st position hard carry ricer, but then again why pick drow for it and not void or AM (who can actually escape ganks and can chase just as good)?
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The aura makes drow good and special(in a good way) enough to build teams around her. If it's too much we don't know, I feel the 40 agi on level 6 is actually bigger, as it translates into 10 damage for the team and makes drow an absolute killing machine
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Something i'm not sure of yet, does your primary stat always increase your auto attack dmg or what stat gives you that?
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On October 26 2012 23:32 Senx wrote:
Something i'm not sure of yet, does your primary stat always increase your auto attack dmg or what stat gives you that?
Your primary stat, yes
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On October 26 2012 23:33 Qbek wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 23:32 Senx wrote:
Something i'm not sure of yet, does your primary stat always increase your auto attack dmg or what stat gives you that? Your primary stat, yes
This goes for int heroes aswell? Or does it affect spell dmg aswell?
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On October 26 2012 23:36 Senx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 23:33 Qbek wrote:On October 26 2012 23:32 Senx wrote:
Something i'm not sure of yet, does your primary stat always increase your auto attack dmg or what stat gives you that? Your primary stat, yes This goes for int heroes aswell? Or does it affect spell dmg aswell?
Primary stat actually only affects what you gain attack from directly. Ofc it's mostly a theme/balance thing. The only thing that affects spells at all is aghanim
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On October 26 2012 23:36 Senx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 23:33 Qbek wrote:On October 26 2012 23:32 Senx wrote:
Something i'm not sure of yet, does your primary stat always increase your auto attack dmg or what stat gives you that? Your primary stat, yes This goes for int heroes aswell? Or does it affect spell dmg aswell?
http://www.playdota.com/mechanics/Attributes
Every Hero in Warcraft III has three attributes that usually define his or her role in the game. These are Intelligence (INT), Agility (AGI) and Strength(STR)
Every Hero has a "main" attribute on which their damage is based. Each point in their main attribute adds 1 point of damage. Typically, when a Hero levels up, their main attribute receives the largest increase.
Each point in Intelligence will:
Increase the hero's max Mana by 13
Increase the hero's Mana regeneration by 0.04 points per second
Each point in Agility will:
Increase the hero's armor by 0.14 points.
Increase the hero's attack speed by 1 point
Each point in Strength will:
Increase the Max HP of the hero by 19 points
Increase the HP regeneration of the hero by 0.03 HP per second
Stats don't increase spelldamage. Veil of discord does.
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It doesn't effect spell damage, only effects the auto attack.
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On October 26 2012 23:36 Senx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 23:33 Qbek wrote:On October 26 2012 23:32 Senx wrote:
Something i'm not sure of yet, does your primary stat always increase your auto attack dmg or what stat gives you that? Your primary stat, yes This goes for int heroes aswell? Or does it affect spell dmg aswell?
Goes for everyone. Does not affect spell damage, unless explicitly stated.
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On October 26 2012 23:36 Senx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 23:33 Qbek wrote:On October 26 2012 23:32 Senx wrote:
Something i'm not sure of yet, does your primary stat always increase your auto attack dmg or what stat gives you that? Your primary stat, yes This goes for int heroes aswell? Or does it affect spell dmg aswell?
Strength increases your HP and your HP regeneration. Agility increases armor and attack speed. Intelligence increases mana and mana regeneration.
Your primary stat always increases your attack damage. Spell damage is only affected by attributes when specifically referenced in the ability; for instance, Glaives of Wisdom deals damage based on Int.
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On October 26 2012 23:38 Qbek wrote:
The only thing that affects spells at all is aghanim
Not true!
Veil of Discord and Orchid both affect spell damage as well.
VoD is very good even
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On October 26 2012 23:43 Ramong wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2012 23:38 Qbek wrote:
The only thing that affects spells at all is aghanim Not true! Veil of Discord and Orchid both affect spell damage as well. VoD is very good even
I'm talking about "on your side" changes, otherwise target being ethereal and stuff like pipe or hood would have to be counted too
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Drow so gooooood
Clock so goooood (<3)
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On October 26 2012 23:28 akatama wrote:
Drow was a mediocre hero that could hard carry with plenty of farm. The only problem is that she lacked a escape mechanism (Frost Arrows is too short on heroes; and her silence has quite a long casting animation so it can't be used on the fly; the few points of extra armor she would get from Marksmanship were almost null and void) and a way to power creep (or flash farm, whatever). You want a good ranged carry that can also gank? Get clinkz, get a fast orchid and pick off supports every now and then. Or pick NP and assist every gank. The examples can go on.
At the moment, she still needs a lot of farm to be dangerous and, just like before, she can't get it in time. Of course if you let her free farm for 20 minutes without ganking while feeding her kills she can get out of control, but so can any other hero. The issue comes from her strong chasing ability, so it means you can't really overcommit when diving her or change you mind at the last minute.
Her aura, while a strong global pushing ability (with all the pros and cons a creep steroid has) creates a dilemma: how do you skill her early, when she's VERY vulnerable? Max aura with 1 point of arrows and silence (=> can't gank or teamfight, you can only afk rice farm)? Max arrows and then silence (so you delay the push)? Max silence first for early engagements? What about getting a level or two of stats early to make you less squishy?
You will probably see her as a 1st position hard carry ricer, but then again why pick drow for it and not void or AM (who can actually escape ganks and can chase just as good)?
I think a lot of fundamental misunderstandings about drow comes from the idea that she's a hard carry that requires a lot of farm, when in reality she has a very brutal midgame power.
Drow's strength as a hero comes with the lvling up with her ultimate that dramatically increases her damage output. As a result, whenever she hits lvl 6, 11 or 16 there is a timing window where teams can exploit this damage gain to engage in a fight or push a tower. In Starcraft terms, this would be like have a big upgrade advantage over your opponent.
To put this into a numbers perspective, with the recent buffs at lvl 6 drow has the potential to gain +40 agility if left to her own devices, which is roughly the equivalent of an eaglesong + blade of alacrity. With that level up, you've suddenly gotten a ~4300 gold advantage over other heroes. Admittedly if you enter into team fights it is halved to +20, but a 2000 gold gain still isn't too bad.
With regards to drow's skill build, it is not necessary to max out frost arrows. Lvl 2 frost arrows is usually sufficient of a slow to chase down and kill enemy heroes (provided you have enough attack speed). Ideally you want to max out her trueshot aura to exploit your the agility gains from your ultimate. The damage output of a lvl 11 drow with yasha + treads + helm of the dominator at the 15-18 minute mark is no joke.
It's true that AM or void can farm and outcarry, but they are nowhere near as effective as drow in that midgame timing window, unless you get some gigantic mana void/chronosphere off.
tl;dr Drow is a glass cannon that can have a lot of presence, which can translate into a decent lategame.
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EPT
