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France9034 Posts
As this is getting bigger, I'll centralize everything in this separate post.
Timeline:
This affair started with a leak published on Slingshot Esports by DeKay
The Professional Esports Association plans to outlaw its Counter-Strike teams from playing in the next season of the ESL Pro League, according to multiple sources. PEA plans to follow through with this decision in spite of dissent from a handful of players on teams within the association.
[...]
A few days later, SirScoots posted the following tweet:
using the hashtag that is now associated with all this: #playersrights. You can find that letter here. It's bearing the signature of all 5 players of 5 different teams involved in PEA:
Cloud9
CLG
Immortals
Team Liquid
Team SoloMid
This letter intends to bring the light on the issue of exclusivity and the fact that PEA's motives seemed to have changed between its inceptions and the declared motives at that times, and the very recent developments.
Selected extract:
We expressed our disagreement to the PEA and our owners, and pointed out that what was now happening contradicted just about everything they had said back in September, but they still stuck to their position. As Jason Katz, who had described himself a few months before as a trustworthy and unbiased party, told one group of players: “Things change.”
This letter has been relayed directly on twitter by some of the players (e.g. n0thing)
+ Show Spoiler +
There's been a couple of reactions to that letter so far.
C9Jake's reaction
I always have and will continue to do the best for my players. That letter was written by someone who has always gone out of his way to make teams look bad. When you have the whole story I'm sure you will feel better about the situation. I'm working to write a response now.
ReDeYe Twitlonger on the matter
With all of that said, the first issue for me is perception. When you launch something called the Professional Esports Association (PEA) but actually you are going to run it like a league rather than an association for teams and players to protect their interests, you are already promising something you can't deliver. Even if this is a perception issue, it's one which is hard to overcome, just look at WESA and they aren't even running a league.
A bit more complex, there's been a recent development involving TSM, its owner, Sean Gares, and the team:
+ Show Spoiler +
Long story short, Reginald blames Sean for damaging TSM's brand, manipulating the players into signing a letter they didn't read, and misleading them on that issue. Sean claims Reginald's fault lies in not disclaiming outright what the PEA would entice for the players. Finally, Relyks released a statement from all the players but Sean, stating that even though they didn't read the letter, they still all agreed to sign it anyway because they agreed in a call with SirScoots about the content and the tone it would have.
An important extract in my opinion:
How Andy felt blindsided by the letter once it was published on Reddit, we felt the same way upon learning of the PEA's plans. We felt pressured to take action and make a response, which we did in uniting in the player letter. We just wanted to write this to clarify any misconceptions and bring everything into the light. There are two sides to every story, and we just wanted to make sure our narrative wasn't skewed and was clear.
Then, Sean Gares reply to Reginald:
+ Show Spoiler +
Aside from that, Frederik Byskov (Founding partner of Astralis) reacted as well on the matter:
+ Show Spoiler +
I'll try to keep this post updated as this continues to develop. If I forgot something, please feel free to bring this up here.
UPDATE:
A tweet I missed from Hazed:
+ Show Spoiler +
UPDATE 2:
PEA has published an open letter in response to the players' letter, through Noah Winston, CEO of Immortals and PEA Player Relations Committee Member.
+ Show Spoiler +
UPDATE 3:
Sir Scoots reaction to PEA's letter:
+ Show Spoiler +
UPDATE 4:
WESA has entered the discussion:
+ Show Spoiler +
UPDATE 5:
DeKay published a Q&A with PEA officials, that you can read here.
UPDATE 6:
A reaction from Noah Winston addressing the points raised by SirScoots after PEA's statement.
+ Show Spoiler +
UPDATE 7:
After a quieter period, things have started moving again on that topic. First, with a report from DeKay that PEA players voted to play in EPL, and thus effectively ending the project of an exclusive North American league ran by PEA for now.
SirScoots' tweet on the topic:
+ Show Spoiler +
UPDATE 8
SirScoots has published an article in which he develops on why the players chose EPL over PEA:
+ Show Spoiler +
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Expected from C9, TSM or CLG.
I have no idea what they give to complexity to buy them into.
And the transformation for Liquid.pro to this... really sad.
But whoever wanted to give the power to someone like Jason Katz (CGS desaster, Azubu), must be either ignorant or just an idiot. He does not bring good, his attitude to fuck over other people to achieve his goals (which he cant achieve because of fucking over people) ends bad for all.
Then again, PEA promisses money to players/orgs they dont have. They say they can get so much money from sponsors for their league, but at the moment they do not have this money. It is very likely that nobody watches their league, sponsors turn down thanks to Jason Katz and the situation and then from the big figs they promis, not alot is really earned.
In the end valve things "okay this shit is enough" and forces something into the eco system. And I think this is much worse then every PEA, WESA, ESForce or the Astralismoneygivers do. Because Riot (where Jason Katz tried alot of shit prior to LCS Season 1 and failed there again) shows how bad this can be.
So man, PEA, WESA and else, get your shit togeather, you can build unified leagues togeather without shitting each one over and not saying "You have to leave US. fully and all you get is our WESA/PEA 8 Teams global tournament for it)".
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Too Juicy. The Esports 'cold war', as Richard Lewis called it, has started!
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Richard Lewis did a great job summing up the situation and involved parties in his Cold War video. Although the entire information is spread across a couple videos and probably multiple hours long, it is worth watching if you're interested in the situation.
To me the whole thing seems to be somewhat similar to the AFL vs NFL dispute and merger of the early 60ies. It even has the aggressive businessmen running the show on both sides. The player poaching and exploding salaries don't seem that far off. What differentiates the PEA vs WESA conflict, is the broad availability of public platforms for all involved parties.
Not only is it easier for players and managers to get their opinions out to the masses with platforms like twitter and youtube, it makes information much easier to come by for everyone. Personally I am very excited about the ensuing situation since my only stake is that I like to watch counter strike. Will the WESA and PEA merge as the American Football Leagues did? Will one absorb the other? What unexpected controversy will we get out of this one?
I don't know. But I got my front row seats reserved (thanks internet) and my popcorn out!
Regarding Sean Gares, the first casualty of this budding crisis, it's sad that TSM ownership had to cower before the mighty pea this way. That being said the status Gares holds in the NA scene and his proven talent as IGL aswell as his acumen for preparing a team for a match will get him back into the action (outside of a WESA team no doubt) in no time. That is if he is even interested in continuing to play the game.
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Sad to see how low Liquid has fallen since their merger with curse.
How they manage LoL team where players picked and dropped all the time, dropping their HotS team with nothing but a Facebook announcement, this PEA fiasco, and the biggest offence of all, picking up AZK for their OW team.
Glad I no longer support Liquid team for quite some time now.
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this is all so juicy, but also, sgares is kind of washed up jus sayin
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On December 24 2016 01:52 HugoBallzak wrote:
this is all so juicy, but also, sgares is kind of washed up jus sayin
he's still a good igl, no?
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France9034 Posts
Gosh PEA's answer is a joke.
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On December 24 2016 01:52 HugoBallzak wrote:
this is all so juicy, but also, sgares is kind of washed up jus sayin
And this is relevant to the discussion how exactly?
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France9034 Posts
On December 24 2016 03:40 Luolis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 24 2016 01:52 HugoBallzak wrote:
this is all so juicy, but also, sgares is kind of washed up jus sayin And this is relevant to the discussion how exactly?
This isn't, let's not feed the troll.
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The answer of PEA is fun:
"We looked for a compromise with ESL, but they refused to get the fuck out of NA for nothing, so its their fault the compromise failed."
"There is no exclusivity, players can choose between PEA or EPL, they just cant play both. Ah yeah, and if they play EPL, we leave CS:GO and their jobs are gone".
Gosh, Jason Katz never fails to show why you should never do buisnes with him or sign him to do something for you. He ruins your product, your brand and then fucks out and does it to the next one he finds.
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Why anyone would choose and trust someone from Azubu to do anything will never make any sense to me.
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On December 24 2016 05:54 jmbthirteen wrote:
Why anyone would choose and trust someone from Azubu to do anything will never make any sense to me.
Its worse, he is from CGS and Azubu.
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France9034 Posts
His time at Riot hasn't gotten him praises as well apparently.
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It's weird that their idea of a reasonable compromise includes staying the fuck out of an entire continent.
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Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet.
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This led me to do some thinking on politics and diplomacy. I imagine it like this: ESL in Europe found WESA, nobody really knows what their goal is apart from maybe have these teams as set in EPL somehow in NA the big COD and LoL brands are like: "Hey, we were left out. Let's do the same thing here with our fat brands and big reach, let's make America great again!" (Whoops, take that with a pinch of salt). And do they proceed to do business the way they know it: hardcore capitalism, oligopolism, doing everything you can to kill your competitors. Only that they reached far beyond what WESA was trying to do and with that and not totally obedient players nowho lost the war of public opinion. Which is not not only relevant for the success of their planned league in viewership but also sponsorship. And rather than admit they went too far they tried to paint it as "well the players didn't really know what they were signing" and after that "well we are not going to do the league anyway now so okthxbye."
I just don't get how they went from 10000% to 1%
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France9034 Posts
On December 25 2016 07:53 schaf wrote:
I just don't get how they went from 10000% to 1%
First of all, maybe Katz wasn't the best choice for that kind of project. Secondly, I think a lot in this comes down to miscommunication. I think if the players were more involved in the process, and knew exactly what this enticed, all this fuss might have been avoided. Because they could've warned early that they wouldn't agree with some specifics of the projects, and the association would've had to find alternatives or better ways to make it work.
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I wouldn't be fooled. Wesa was planning to do this same exact thing.
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(Redacted)
Edit: Hmmm... looks like the situation is more complicated than I thought.
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EPT
