On September 01 2008 17:51 ahrara_ wrote: I stand by my belief that Joe Lieberman would've won McCain the presidency. The choice of Palin just makes my eyes goggle. I wouldn't trust her to be the president if she agreed with me on every single issue. Before I get into Joe, here's some points about Palin:
She was a journalism major with a poli-sci minor. As a Poli-Sci major, I happen to know that means she has just about zero knowledge of law.
Her only political experience before turning governor was as the mayor of the city of Wasilla, pop: ~8000.
Running bloody ALASKA is not running a country. In her (one year) record, the most complicated policy Palin was involved in constructing was a handout of $1200 to everybody in alaska to help pay for energy prices. In other words, meaningless populist bullshit.
She has zero knowledge of foreign policy. Zip. I honestly believe I could do a better job handling foreign policy than she could. --- As an Obama supporter, my worst nightmare was if Joe Lieberman were VP. Here's why:
1. Would've undercut Obama's message of change. When you select someone who used to be the VP for the other party, it kinda revokes any credibility your opponent has to wanting to work "across the aisle". Speaking of which, Obama has rarely broken with Democratic orthodoxy on legislation.
2. Would've dramatically improved the McCain campaign's appeal to moderates, independents, and disaffected Hillary supporters. A pro-choice VP would've had more appeal because you open a door to orthodox democrats who refuse to vote for Obama as well as people who were just behind Hillary because of her gender.
3. Screw the Evangelicals. Who else are they going to vote for? The moderates and independents McCain would win over with the pick of Lieberman would've made up for poorer conservative showings. You can always argue to some effect that Lieberman would have no impact on supreme court appointees or abortion policy.
palin was a gamble by mccain to try to win over hillary clinton supporters. but, that aside, you know the VP doesn't actually do anything, right? like no experience necessary really
Tell that to Dick Cheney. The VP can play a crucial role in some administrations depending on the relationship between the two. In this administration, clearly Palin won't be doing much for the first few years at least.
Also, my point was that Joe Lieberman's appeal to moderates would've been more beneficial for McCain's campaign than Palin's appeal to Hillaryites.
On September 01 2008 17:55 yubee wrote: palin was a gamble by mccain to try to win over hillary clinton supporters. but, that aside, you know the VP doesn't actually do anything, right? like no experience necessary really
ya, but with mccain's age and health, its an important choice, since theres a higher chance that that VP will be our next president
I don't think Lieberman would've won McCain the presidency, though. Picking a pro-choice candidate would've really angered the evangelicals, splitting the GOP base. It's true the evangelicals won't cross over and vote Obama, but a large number of them would stay home on voting day. Those that would hold their noses and vote McCain are unlikely to drive their neighbors to do the same. There's already a huge enthusiasm gap between Obama supporters and McCain supporters, and a pro-choice VP would've only exacerbated that.
Still, Palin just makes it so much easier for the dems, so I can't complain.
Being a Obama supporter, I really hope that this works out for the best, but CNN (take it as you may) had a new poll nationally with Obama at 49 % and McCain at 48%. I honestly think that this will be a tight, tight election mainly based on people's susceptibility to be influenced by negative ads. It is good to see come Obama ads starting to be released to counter act the GOP's.
I saw Obama and Biden speak in Battlecreek MI yesterday. I lost my voice. :x Obama looked pretty tired.
It's extremely difficult not to be lulled in by Obama's quiet confidence if you see him in person. While Biden was rallying everyone up, he was just calmly sitting back on a stool. Obama's speech was mostly about himself (non-attack) although he did say the republican camp is continuing to use fear tactics over ideas. One of the things they emphasized (I believe guaranteed) was equal pay for men and women, which was pretty great. Actually there was 1 nice attack line on McCain's foreign policy. "I'm tired of people who talk tough and act dumb." I couldn't agree more. I've disagreed with his ultra hawkish foreign policy for as long as I can remember.
Michigan's economy has gotten trashed over the past 5-6 years, partly due to our own bad leadership in local government and the car companies. It's especially a big deal in this area, so he talked about green jobs, helping teachers, etc.
Biden didn't mentione Palin and Obama barely mentioned her, btw. If you get the chance to see them, I recommend it. They packed about 17,000 people into a minor league ball park and the atmosphere was pretty jovial like a sporting event. Oh yeah, Biden said he used to play centerfield.
i gather most of the attention paid to VP's is the meta sort, that it is a significant move. but to look at the thing for their actual impact on administration, i'd say that palin would have at best corrosive influence. she looks like a movement evangelical, meaning her world of politics is solely informed by a narrow experience fighting in the rightwing. it would not pain her to influence things in an extremely perverse way, install loyal and fanatical aides etc, who control the personnel decisions of the departments. extremely weighty decisions would be made solely on the ground of ONE OF US!!! i don't know if the public is understanding enough to be receptive to this angle of attack though, although it is obvious that the choice of an unsophisticated crusader would spell doom to any chance of a republican administration staying sensible.
biden might actually do some good on his own.
i know commenting about american politics is a thankless exercise, but the way people approach politics without studying how exactly their figurehead decisions impact the way things are done has to be one of the most irritating things about this whole affair.
On September 01 2008 11:16 boghat wrote: I've been a Hillary Clinton supporter the whole time, and I'm not too keen on Barack Obama, but I will definitely vote for Obama now because if McCain dies, which is very likely, I don't want fucking Sarah Palin to be president. Sarah Palin as Vice President is a fucking joke. If Hillary Clinton was the presidential nominee with Obama as vice president I bet this thing would be a huge lock. If McCain wins this, it is a sad sad for the US, and I don't even like Obama, he is STILL a big bag of wind to me, I've watched plenty of his speeches over the past half year and my opinion has not changed. I suppose pretty much 95% of presidents are like that though, your like or dislike clouds your perception a lot, but in the end all their speeches are 100% talk and 0% substance. Whatever, Obama will get my vote.
he's a law school professor. they generally think about this stuff. just maybe?
Personal lives should be largely irrelevant to politics, except when you're running on strong family morals.
The 17-year-old, a senior in high school, is about five months along, in her second trimester, according to the aide.
The aide said it was decided the campaign would reveal this information now because of rampant Internet rumors that Sarah Palin's 4-month-old baby, who has Down syndrome, was actually Bristol's.
Sarah Palin's child is going to be playmates with her daughter's child. This has Spears family written all over it.
The Palins have five children: sons Track (19) and Trig (four months) and daughters Bristol (17), Willow (14) and Piper (7).
Bristol Palin, one of Alaska Gov. Palin's five children with her husband, Todd, is about five months pregnant and is going to keep the child and marry the father, the Palins said in a statement released by the campaign of Republican presidential candidate John McCain.
That would be the last thing the GOP needs is a child out of wedlock for this ticket.
The volatile issue of teaching creation science in public schools popped up in the Alaska governor's race this week when Republican Sarah Palin said she thinks creationism should be taught alongside evolution in the state's public classrooms.
Palin was answering a question from the moderator near the conclusion of Wednesday night's televised debate on KAKM Channel 7 when she said, "Teach both. You know, don't be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important, and it's so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both."
...
Asked for her personal views on evolution, Palin said, "I believe we have a creator."
Everybody has retarded supporters. But the majority of her supporters aren't creationists. They would more likely be college / university educated and not buy into that shit. ;p
EPT
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