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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
im out.. so many guys here are totaling missreading this.. it doesnt matter if rekrul says it in a nice or harsh way.. ffs.. There is no foreinger who could have an impact on korean bw gaming.. and artosis is indeed a player like one out of 100 in terms of skill even for NONKOREAN standards.. | ||
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Schnake
Germany2819 Posts
On October 13 2007 13:03 Smuft wrote: I think the time for a foreign starcraft player to become a respectable pro gamer in korea has come and gone. I don't really know what estro is trying to accomplish with this. I guess it looks cool to have one foreigner on your team when the cameras look at you during pro league. [...] As already has been mentioned, I also think that it is for marketing issues. North America is an interesting, if not the most interesting market for e-sports as it still has a huge growth potential. However, I do not know how having a North American player will help them to accomplish anything in the USA/Canada. They must have some big PR activities in mind because I don't think so many people would follow "the life of a (non-korean) progamer". :O | ||
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ForAdun
Germany986 Posts
Not Rekrul. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
And, as I said when it was first announced - great initiative but, 5 years too late  Nothing can be done about it being 5 years too late tho, so Iet's just hope it pans out well and that whoever wins has a good time in korea/does well. | ||
Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
that'd be a ridiculous success, even if he gets raped but i don't see even that happening | ||
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kAra
Germany1375 Posts
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-WGT-Stars-
United States888 Posts
 ....And it's nice having a foreigner over there at least  ] | ||
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Ilvy
Germany2445 Posts
On October 13 2007 18:57 ForAdun wrote: We don't need people who have the power to state the truth. We need people with the power to change something about it. Not Rekrul. Made me laugh, he at least knows the manager there you must be a good believer to think that anyone could change that  | ||
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Skew
United States1019 Posts
When you mention how Artosis and others don't improve a lot it's very true, they/he doesn't. But it's not because of this magical thing you call "talent" -- it's because he's an idiot and plays newbies all night. If he'd ever practice correctly (vs people who don't suck), he'd learn as quick as anyone else. Fact. Not that I don't agree about the other parts. I'd still like to see other skilled guys in Europe/etc to be able to have this opportunity, but the "top teir" of them have already turned down their offers (and the other guys who haven't gotten them just don't give a shit). I think it's kind of ironic you shit on Artosis, btw, after coming back from a progaming team and not even making it to round 3 in US WCG. All the while you acted pretty shy, too. I guess being an internet warrior is "in" though. | ||
FakeSteve[TPR]
Valhalla18444 Posts
On October 13 2007 19:44 Skew wrote: "Talent" doesn't exist. How you learn or how good you use what you know is all based on past experience. Unless of course you're 100IQ and the other person is 200IQ, which still isn't talent. Talent is that magical word we all like to use to make ourselves or someone else feel good, but that doesn't make it real. Sorry. Anyone in that list could become an amazing player if they were on a professional team for long enough. When you mention how Artosis and others don't improve a lot it's very true, they/he doesn't. But it's not because of this magical thing you call "talent" -- it's because he's an idiot and plays newbies all night. If he'd ever practice correctly (vs people who don't suck), he'd learn as quick as anyone else. Fact. that's not true at all dude. are you not physically aware that all of those ideal conditions already exist and there's still a huge disparity in skill between someone like Bisu and someone like Jju? Like seriously how can you say that Artosis would progress as quick as any other person like its true? He'll progress faster or slower than other people in identical conditions, and the difference is that 'talent' thing you don't believe in. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
"anyone can get there with practice" is what people tell themselves to feel good. it's what talentless people use to justify why they aren't getting anywhere, when in reality no matter how hard they work they'll never be as good as someone with talent. i agree you need both talent+work ethic+ circumstances to be a champion, but to deny that the talent portion exists is just ignorant. also, you can say that talent+work ethic are the same thing. some people are just born / learn the ability to work hard and be diligent. this is a "talent" just as much as moving fast is. | ||
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Skew
United States1019 Posts
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
On October 13 2007 20:11 Skew wrote: What you call talent is actually just gained knowledge from a better experience. some people learn faster than others, some respond to pressure better where do they learn the ability to learn faster? from experience? then where do they learn the ability to learn the ability to learn faster then? at some point it has to be innate, not everything is a sum of experiences if you read boxer's biography, i bet a million kids had the same upbringing as him leading up to being a progamer, but he succeeded where others failed... its not like anyone could be him if they had similar experiences | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
its accepted that the line of influence on success is somewhere in the middle between the two, to deny that either factor doesn't exist is really just ridiculous its a combination of both... if you think hard work and circumstances matter more that's a much more acceptable position than "talent doesn't exist" | ||
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Skew
United States1019 Posts
On October 13 2007 20:16 Hot_Bid wrote: some people learn faster than others, some respond to pressure better where do they learn the ability to learn faster? from experience? then where do they learn the ability to learn the ability to learn faster then? at some point it has to be innate, not everything is a sum of experiences if you read boxer's biography, i bet a million kids had the same upbringing as him leading up to being a progamer, but he succeeded where others failed... its not like anyone could be him if they had similar experiences Everyone has a completely unique experience, regardless of what kind of place they grew up in our what they ate for breakfast, lol... sorry to spoil the fun dude, but no one is born with an innate ability to play PC games. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36375 Posts
On October 13 2007 20:21 Skew wrote: Everyone has a completely unique experience, regardless of what kind of place they grew up in our what they ate for breakfast, lol... sorry to spoil the fun dude, but no one is born with an innate ability to play PC games. of course nobody is born with the specific ability to play starcraft, nobody was arguing that there are certain skills people are born with, like creativity, intelligence, ability to learn faster, etc. these are obviously influenced by genetics, and clearly will help with starcraft... to say that yeah boxer was born just as smart and creative as bifrost, but somehow "learned" to be like he is solely through experience is ridiculous that's like saying hey albert einstein, he's a genius, but anyone could've come up with the theory of relativity if they grew up the same way as him? or anyone would be hitler if they grew up the same way? i mean what you're saying isn't new or insightful, it's an argument that was made and refuted... the consensus is that in just about all things that require depth of skill / competition or similar to sports, there IS a talent factor | ||
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ForAdun
Germany986 Posts
@ Skew: I had your opinion once, but I changed my mind. Talent is small, it can be overlooked easily, I think this is why you don't realize it. You probably know that the smallest things make the biggest differences. | ||
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Ghin
United States2391 Posts
On October 13 2007 20:39 ForAdun wrote: Wow @ Hot_Bid, you better don't take Hitler as an example or this thread may be closed soon... as much as I dislike some of the statements it's an interesting topic, I'd like to see it going on. @ Skew: I had your opinion once, but I changed my mind. Talent is small, it can be overlooked easily, I think this is why you don't realize it. You probably know that the smallest things make the biggest differences. if it gets closed... he can reopen it | ||
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no.1
516 Posts
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