So...I'd like to post this on the Awesome/Confusing BM thread, but the more I start to read threads from the post, the more it starts to look like actual threats on life and/or users validating end-user suicide.
I'm 37, have two kids (pre-teen), wife/job etc. and understand people can get frustrated. I've raged before. But some of the things I'm starting to see are "next level." I actually have my kid playing Modern Warfare with the mic muted because it is more realistic and there are less, real life, predators opposed to Fortnite
Anyway, you watch real case situations like this:
But I'm not a streamer. I play this game to unwind; and I've played tens of thousands of game since 98. So while this was very visible from a top streamer perspective, this happens regularly in games and can turn into REAL life scenarios. Similar to the case where someone got swatted and was killed.
Anyway, my point is, from a regular player when I see something like this below, it is incumbent on both Blizzard and the operating site (Teamliquid.net) to act on these situations. It is not funny. It is a liability and can create real world, potentially harmful, situations.
EDIT: I have many more examples of real life threats and/or direct implications of suicide. I have many screenshots showing these scenarios. If you are someone that does this without malicious intent - STOP now. Again, I'm not perfect and said insults to players in retrospect I probably didn't mean or have been rude; but I've NEVER threatened life or asked someone to kill themselves.
On May 09 2020 16:08 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote: you seem like a real drama queen
Thanks Bud. Have kids and get back to me in 20 years.
While his post was unnecessarily rude, I don't think your patronizing tone is helping your point. You being a certain age or having kids doesn't make your argument holds anymore value than someone 20 years younger and childless. In fact, most arguments following the "As a mother..." template holds generally little merit, hence the meme.
Also, you should realize that TL is an ancient community for an ancient game and you're far from the only member in their 30/40s with kids already.
Now to answer your original point:
Anyway, my point is, from a regular player when I see something like this below, it is incumbent on both Blizzard and the operating site (Teamliquid.net) to act on these situations
The way you word it make it seems like you believe TL.net is some kind of official website for Starcraft. It's not, and it is in no way affiliated with Blizzard. Regarding Blizzard, sure they could always do more to tackle BM. I think muting players who get repeatedly reported for BMing should be more common. But as far as online multiplayer goes, Starcraft is actually one of the game where people are the most well-behaved (Do you know of any other game where the opponent will wait for you when you pause the game?)
I actually have my kid playing Modern Warfare with the mic muted because it is more realistic and there are less, real life, predators opposed to Fortnite
I don't know how old your kids are, but since you said pre-teens I'm gonna assume 12 or younger. You do realize a game like Modern Warfare (on top of being the worst cesspool of a community for an online game of the past decade) is rated PEGI 18? Maybe show them how to play Minecraft or something.
One more thing, on your last screenshot it seems to me you actually offensive GGed your opponent, which prompted his colorful answer. Once you offensive GG someone, two things happen in my opinion: 1 you deserve to hear what your opponent has to say to you, 2 you don't get to go on a forum later and play the victim.
The first BM looks like the dude is mentally unhinged, and I agree, that has no place in the game. The second BM looks like you taunted your opponent. While I don't condone what he said to you, what were you expecting when you offensive GG?
On May 09 2020 16:08 GreasedUpDeafGuy wrote: you seem like a real drama queen
Thanks Bud. Have kids and get back to me in 20 years.
While his post was unnecessarily rude, I don't think your patronizing tone is helping your point. You being a certain age or having kids doesn't make your argument holds anymore value than someone 20 years younger and childless. In fact, most arguments following the "As a mother..." template holds generally little merit, hence the meme.
Also, you should realize that TL is an ancient community for an ancient game and you're far from the only member in their 30/40s with kids already.
Anyway, my point is, from a regular player when I see something like this below, it is incumbent on both Blizzard and the operating site (Teamliquid.net) to act on these situations
The way you word it make it seems like you believe TL.net is some kind of official website for Starcraft. It's not, and it is in no way affiliated with Blizzard. Regarding Blizzard, sure they could always do more to tackle BM. I think muting players who get repeatedly reported for BMing should be more common. But as far as online multiplayer goes, Starcraft is actually one of the game where people are the most well-behaved (Do you know of any other game where the opponent will wait for you when you pause the game?)
I actually have my kid playing Modern Warfare with the mic muted because it is more realistic and there are less, real life, predators opposed to Fortnite
One more thing, on your last screenshot it seems to me you actually offensive GGed your opponent, which prompted his colorful answer. Once you offensive GG someone, two things happen in my opinion: 1 you deserve to hear what your opponent has to say to you, 2 you don't get to go on a forum later and play the victim.
This was a well thought out post. So I appreciate that. Your first comment
The way you word it make it seems like you believe TL.net is some kind of official website for Starcraft. It's not, and it is in no way affiliated with Blizzard.
.
This is not true. In fact if you were around a while it was claimed to be an "official Sc2 site" for information. You even have employees POST on this site. It would be very disingenuous to claim this site is "one of many" any they are "absolved" from any responsibility when it comes to real life threats or posting. There are balance threads specifically based on the feedback from this site; while it is not direct, TL is a conduit to Blizzard and the SC community.
This is not true. In fact if you were around a while it was claimed to be an "official Sc2 site" for information. You even have employees POST on this site. It would be very disingenuous to claim this site is "one of many" any they are "absolved" from any responsibility when it comes to real life threats or posting. There are balance threads specifically based on the feedback from this site; while it is not direct, TL is a conduit to Blizzard and the SC community.
I've been around a while. If you hover on people's name, you can see how old their account is. Yours shows January 2019. Mine shows February 2011. Now this isn't a dick measuring contest, maybe you've been reading TL for years without having an account, but for the past decade or so I've been browsing TL, I don't ever recall a time where they claimed to be an "official SC2 site". I could be wrong though, since the website opened in 2001.
I also don't recall current Blizzard employees posting on TL for years. Last I can remember was David Kim back in 2012 or so? But I mean, even if current Blizzard employees were posting here now, I don't see how that would make TL anymore "official". A lot of development teams of PC game titles actively post in their respective subreddit, that doesn't make reddit an official website of said development studio.
So again, I fail to understand your point about how TL is in any way shape or form responsible for people BMing on ladder.
One more thing, on your last screenshot it seems to me you actually offensive GGed your opponent, which prompted his colorful answer. Once you offensive GG someone, two things happen in my opinion: 1 you deserve to hear what your opponent has to say to you, 2 you don't get to go on a forum later and play the victim.
So this is why I started this discussion, Fastr (quote above). I offensively called GG - Yes I did. I've played this person several times.."GH/HF" then they've sent several horrific messages to me in-game. Then they call on actual harm. It escalates over time. So, again, as someone approaching 40 (age is more about experience when I see these comments).. But my 12 yr old kid starts to see this in games that are rated E. So where is the accountability? How do you defend this kind of behavior?
This is not true. In fact if you were around a while it was claimed to be an "official Sc2 site" for information. You even have employees POST on this site. It would be very disingenuous to claim this site is "one of many" any they are "absolved" from any responsibility when it comes to real life threats or posting. There are balance threads specifically based on the feedback from this site; while it is not direct, TL is a conduit to Blizzard and the SC community.
I've been around a while. If you hover on people's name, you can see how old their account is. Yours shows January 2019. Mine shows February 2011. Now this isn't a dick measuring contest, maybe you've been reading TL for years without having an account, but for the past decade or so I've been browsing TL, I don't ever recall a time where they claimed to be an "official SC2 site". I could be wrong though, since the website opened in 2001.
I also don't recall current Blizzard employees posting on TL for years. Last I can remember was David Kim back in 2012 or so? But I mean, even if current Blizzard employees were posting here now, I don't see how that would make TL anymore "official". A lot of development teams of PC game titles actively post in their respective subreddit, that doesn't make reddit an official website of said development studio.
So again, I fail to understand your point about how TL is in any way shape or form responsible for people BMing on ladder.
Ok. So this is my last response to you. I'm not marginalizing your questions but you are not informed. Please see my last response. My account dates back to 2004; I've sponsored matches with WhiteRa, Kas, MKP, DiMaga, GoODy, even long time players like Major (Special) and Puck/Nina. My account posts change b/c of my login source (b/c of Twitch) - that is not the point. It is the fact you reference the word "BMing on ladder" which is actual real world THREATS. Your continuous response leads me to believe you are somehow involved in this whole thing.
The personal attacks don't belong anywhere on TL. TL has no power over what Blizzard does or doesn't do with SC2. To my knowledge we were never an official SC2 website, we were just the de facto community site for it.
The discussion about online BM is a valid one - let's try to stick to this.
could it be more malicious to have your kid shoot photorealistic soldiers in CoD than reading curse word-filtered messages of people threatening him over the internet? just a thought. besides, you can tell him to mute his opponent at the start of every game if this really concerns you that much.
the people saying that death threats and suicide encouragement are normal internet behavior are nuts. it's insane to compare bad sportsmanship to threatening to kill a person. that's beyond "trash talk," and blizzard should be muting and banning people for that shit 100%.
the thing is, from what i've seen, they usually don't, and i don't imagine they're going to start. i also don't understand what exactly OP is proposing. while i agree there's a line that can be crossed, i don't think there's value in a bunch of forum posters holding hands and having a singalong protesting blizzard's abusive chat policies.
OP, you're not wrong in what you're essentially saying. but you do come across slightly like a person who just got angry over an online confrontation and is now trying to make a big deal out of it. i sympathize if awful things were said to you, but i don't get this thread. if you're serious then post this on the battle.net forums, maybe make a youtube video or something if you want to get attention behind it, but realistically i don't think there's anything here to get off the ground
the fact that you're apparently trying to accuse TL of being affiliated with blizzard when they're simply legally not affiliated doesn't help your case
I don`t know. I kind of like BM. The occational murder threat is something everyone gets while growing up. It might be a little scary the first time, but you learn that very few people will actually try to kill you. I mean who has NEVER been threatened? Evaluate the threat and give a appropriate response or none. How many documented cases of internet threats turned into action exists? I bet that number is lower than real life threats.
People get mad. People who have a certain personality tend to attribute their shortcomings externally. So if someone rages really hard in an online game, he/she most likely thinks "the Idra way". So that's that. There'll always be BM and lots of times it's pretty funny.
Death threats and the sort are way beyond the line. But that's exactly what those players want to do. They want to break the rules as hard as possible to get into the head of their opponent. But they don't feel better or rewarded by it in the long run. They're like cockroaches. They eat, shit and eat shit. But they don't go away until you fight them with poison. People who send death threats etc. to other players should get banned, period. But if an adult gets those messsages, he should be capable of dealing with them. Kids, on the other hand, are not ready. They learn how to deal with insults during puberty. (I'm a teacher and I've had my fair share of "real life" BM, so believe me: Most of the kids do learn. Some are assholes.)
Unrelated: I wouldn't let my kids play FPS before 12. And offensive gg is not okay. Not. At. All.
On May 10 2020 00:29 SPcrusader wrote: I don`t know. I kind of like BM. The occational murder threat is something everyone gets while growing up. It might be a little scary the first time, but you learn that very few people will actually try to kill you. I mean who has NEVER been threatened? Evaluate the threat and give a appropriate response or none. How many documented cases of internet threats turned into action exists? I bet that number is lower than real life threats.
Basically this.
OP says he's been a gamer since '98 at least, so he has likely been exposed to the same exact bullshit as an adolescent/young adult as he is experiencing now. Presumably, OP did not die, have his mother fucked by a pubescent pimple-faced nerd, get cancer, get murdered, have his computer DDOS'ed by 1337 H4X0RZ when he was 12 and first encountered this kind of online banter. Yet, somehow he believes it will be a traumatic experience for his child when it wasn't for himself.
I agree with another poster here who said that it seem that OP is just invoking his age, his children, etc. all just to point the finger at one or two specific players on ladder after a bad experience. He of course has the right to do so, but I don't believe the motivation for this whole "protect our children" or "let's clean up the BM in our community" is devoid of any targeted malice in itself. Note how he admits to having played the same player numerous times, that his own behavior was deteriorating, etc.
Also, TL was never an "official" StarCraft outlet, so lol@that.
On May 10 2020 00:38 Firebolt145 wrote: I hope none of you are advocating that offensive GGing is worse than death threats.
What a leap.
EDIT: Just for clarification:
BM is bad. People who make death threats should be reported. Those people should have disciplinary actions levied against them. Doesn't take away from the fact that it is impossible to prevent entirely and the only truly viable solution is teaching your children how to deal with it.
Mods - please close this thread. I thought this would be a constructive discussion but clearly the feedback I’m getting is essentially real life threats and people encouraging suicidality is part of the game. I’m simply pointing out over the last 15 yrs this kind of dialogue has really escalated. Make sure to gl hf guys otherwise expect these kinds of threats is the theme I’m hearing. Nice to know. Thanks.
Can't say I am sympathetic to the OP. Looking at your links, you aren't a paragon of virtue yourself. Maybe don't insult others first if you are offended at them reacting back to you and then try to shame them.
This thread is hilarious to me Lol. Someone who comes off as a major jerk getting upset that people online are major jerks - wants to control the other jerks, but doesn't want to be controlled himself / hear that he's actually a major jerk. the irony.
I personally think a bit of BM is fine, and banter and some flaming has always been a part of gaming or any traditional sport. However advocating suicide (kill yourself) or even wishing cancer on people is over the line. Unfortunately internet anonymity allows this to become too easy to spread. And how on earth is offensive GGing worse than this behaviour?
There is a degree of personal responsibility. I wouldn't let a 10 year old kid play sports with a bunch of random young adults unless I know the group will play nice with him. Admittedly this is trickier to monitor online.
EPT
