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On January 20 2018 04:37 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 04:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. Except that not asking for reform but to continue on as in years prior. I know, its easy to forget it was Trump who blew up the DACA. The executive branch does unilaterally what Congress rejected. New executive that ran on a tougher immigration stance rescinds. Now they're shutting down the government to pressure Congress to pass it. Yeah, Schumer might regret saying it now, but he has his shills to cover his ass. Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 04:30 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. I don't consider DACA immigration. If you've been here since you're a child, you are an American. Children should never be made to suffer for their parent's mistakes. If you illegally immigrate to America, you're subject to immigration law.Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 04:28 brian wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. and it’s your understanding that it’s the democrats that have failed to make the necessary progress on DACA here? They're forthrightly trying to shuffle blame and refuse to fund the government unless Republicans pass DACA. They won't fund CHIP if no DACA. It's a bold political move, and I already said they have reason to think the Republicans will blink first.
Are you saying that infants and young children immigrate?
Seems to me you need some sort of agency to be an immigrant, they were more "relocated". So I can see an argument for having beef with their parents from your perspective, but you gotta be kidding with this "they broke the law" in reference to children kick?
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On January 20 2018 04:40 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 04:37 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. Except that not asking for reform but to continue on as in years prior. I know, its easy to forget it was Trump who blew up the DACA. The executive branch does unilaterally what Congress rejected. New executive that ran on a tougher immigration stance rescinds. Now they're shutting down the government to pressure Congress to pass it. Yeah, Schumer might regret saying it now, but he has his shills to cover his ass. On January 20 2018 04:30 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. I don't consider DACA immigration. If you've been here since you're a child, you are an American. Children should never be made to suffer for their parent's mistakes. If you illegally immigrate to America, you're subject to immigration law. In your eyes, what decisions did these children make? How much input did you have where your family lives? You haven't shown what responsibility these DACA kids have. Describe the decisions they made.
They're a victim of the choices their parents made. The parents are responding to decades of failure of the US to secure its sudden border, and the failed economic/judicial/social policies of their host countries. The argument is for compassion for the victim, not that DACA isn't immigration. It's literally the definition of immigration. Do newborns get to choose who they were born to and where they were born?
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On January 20 2018 04:42 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 04:37 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. Except that not asking for reform but to continue on as in years prior. I know, its easy to forget it was Trump who blew up the DACA. The executive branch does unilaterally what Congress rejected. New executive that ran on a tougher immigration stance rescinds. Now they're shutting down the government to pressure Congress to pass it. Yeah, Schumer might regret saying it now, but he has his shills to cover his ass. On January 20 2018 04:30 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. I don't consider DACA immigration. If you've been here since you're a child, you are an American. Children should never be made to suffer for their parent's mistakes. If you illegally immigrate to America, you're subject to immigration law.On January 20 2018 04:28 brian wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. and it’s your understanding that it’s the democrats that have failed to make the necessary progress on DACA here? They're forthrightly trying to shuffle blame and refuse to fund the government unless Republicans pass DACA. They won't fund CHIP if no DACA. It's a bold political move, and I already said they have reason to think the Republicans will blink first. Are you saying that infants and young children immigrate? Seems to me you need some sort of agency to be an immigrant, they were more "relocated". So I can see an argument for having beef with their parents from your perspective, but you gotta be kidding with this "they broke the law" in reference to children kick?
Right now illegal immigrant babies simply crawl across the border. A wall would stop that.
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On January 20 2018 04:42 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 04:37 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. Except that not asking for reform but to continue on as in years prior. I know, its easy to forget it was Trump who blew up the DACA. The executive branch does unilaterally what Congress rejected. New executive that ran on a tougher immigration stance rescinds. Now they're shutting down the government to pressure Congress to pass it. Yeah, Schumer might regret saying it now, but he has his shills to cover his ass. On January 20 2018 04:30 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. I don't consider DACA immigration. If you've been here since you're a child, you are an American. Children should never be made to suffer for their parent's mistakes. If you illegally immigrate to America, you're subject to immigration law.On January 20 2018 04:28 brian wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. and it’s your understanding that it’s the democrats that have failed to make the necessary progress on DACA here? They're forthrightly trying to shuffle blame and refuse to fund the government unless Republicans pass DACA. They won't fund CHIP if no DACA. It's a bold political move, and I already said they have reason to think the Republicans will blink first. Are you saying that infants and young children immigrate? Seems to me you need some sort of agency to be an immigrant, they were more "relocated". So I can see an argument for having beef with their parents from your perspective, but you gotta be kidding with this "they broke the law" in reference to children kick?
In the case of legal immigration, would you say when a family immigrated, only the mom and dad came? Their children didn't actually immigrate? Young children arriving at Ellis Island weren't immigrants, though adults were?
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On January 20 2018 04:44 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 04:40 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:37 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. Except that not asking for reform but to continue on as in years prior. I know, its easy to forget it was Trump who blew up the DACA. The executive branch does unilaterally what Congress rejected. New executive that ran on a tougher immigration stance rescinds. Now they're shutting down the government to pressure Congress to pass it. Yeah, Schumer might regret saying it now, but he has his shills to cover his ass. On January 20 2018 04:30 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. I don't consider DACA immigration. If you've been here since you're a child, you are an American. Children should never be made to suffer for their parent's mistakes. If you illegally immigrate to America, you're subject to immigration law. In your eyes, what decisions did these children make? How much input did you have where your family lives? You haven't shown what responsibility these DACA kids have. Describe the decisions they made. They're a victim of the choices their parents made. The parents are responding to decades of failure of the US to secure its sudden border, and the failed economic/judicial/social policies of their host countries. The argument is for compassion for the victim, not that DACA isn't immigration. It's literally the definition of immigration. Do newborns get to choose who they were born to and where they were born?
You say they are victims, but you advocate for punishing them. Why? If your parents decided to immigrate to an ISIS controlled city when you were 6 years old, and you got your head chopped off for being a white Christian, did you fuck up? Should you die for being such an idiot and moving to Syria?
Newborns don't get to choose, which is why we have a million laws and protocols in place to make sure the state does a decent job at keeping children somewhat ok. The idea that it takes absolutely nothing to be a parent, meaning there are millions of garbage parents, is not a new idea. We try to fill in the gaps best we can. The idea that a child should not be blamed or punished for the mistakes of their parents is not new. Children have no expression of will, they are practically property.
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On January 20 2018 04:44 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 04:40 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:37 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. Except that not asking for reform but to continue on as in years prior. I know, its easy to forget it was Trump who blew up the DACA. The executive branch does unilaterally what Congress rejected. New executive that ran on a tougher immigration stance rescinds. Now they're shutting down the government to pressure Congress to pass it. Yeah, Schumer might regret saying it now, but he has his shills to cover his ass. On January 20 2018 04:30 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. I don't consider DACA immigration. If you've been here since you're a child, you are an American. Children should never be made to suffer for their parent's mistakes. If you illegally immigrate to America, you're subject to immigration law. In your eyes, what decisions did these children make? How much input did you have where your family lives? You haven't shown what responsibility these DACA kids have. Describe the decisions they made. They're a victim of the choices their parents made. The parents are responding to decades of failure of the US to secure its sudden border, and the failed economic/judicial/social policies of their host countries. The argument is for compassion for the victim, not that DACA isn't immigration. It's literally the definition of immigration. Do newborns get to choose who they were born to and where they were born?
I'm confused, do think that's a righteous position or an unfortunate and immoral necessity?
On January 20 2018 04:47 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 04:42 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 20 2018 04:37 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. Except that not asking for reform but to continue on as in years prior. I know, its easy to forget it was Trump who blew up the DACA. The executive branch does unilaterally what Congress rejected. New executive that ran on a tougher immigration stance rescinds. Now they're shutting down the government to pressure Congress to pass it. Yeah, Schumer might regret saying it now, but he has his shills to cover his ass. On January 20 2018 04:30 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. I don't consider DACA immigration. If you've been here since you're a child, you are an American. Children should never be made to suffer for their parent's mistakes. If you illegally immigrate to America, you're subject to immigration law.On January 20 2018 04:28 brian wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. and it’s your understanding that it’s the democrats that have failed to make the necessary progress on DACA here? They're forthrightly trying to shuffle blame and refuse to fund the government unless Republicans pass DACA. They won't fund CHIP if no DACA. It's a bold political move, and I already said they have reason to think the Republicans will blink first. Are you saying that infants and young children immigrate? Seems to me you need some sort of agency to be an immigrant, they were more "relocated". So I can see an argument for having beef with their parents from your perspective, but you gotta be kidding with this "they broke the law" in reference to children kick? In the case of legal immigration, would you say when a family immigrated, only the mom and dad came? Their children didn't actually immigrate? Young children arriving at Ellis Island weren't immigrants, though adults were?
I would say young children relocated by their parents were relocated by their parents.
If they got here on their own I would call them immigrants regardless of age, though "displaced", "refugee", or "fleeing criminal prosecution" would probably be more apt descriptors of many immigrants of all ages back then as well. I also disagree with Ben Carson and Obama about slaves being immigrants.
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On January 20 2018 04:48 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 04:44 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:40 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:37 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. Except that not asking for reform but to continue on as in years prior. I know, its easy to forget it was Trump who blew up the DACA. The executive branch does unilaterally what Congress rejected. New executive that ran on a tougher immigration stance rescinds. Now they're shutting down the government to pressure Congress to pass it. Yeah, Schumer might regret saying it now, but he has his shills to cover his ass. On January 20 2018 04:30 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. I don't consider DACA immigration. If you've been here since you're a child, you are an American. Children should never be made to suffer for their parent's mistakes. If you illegally immigrate to America, you're subject to immigration law. In your eyes, what decisions did these children make? How much input did you have where your family lives? You haven't shown what responsibility these DACA kids have. Describe the decisions they made. They're a victim of the choices their parents made. The parents are responding to decades of failure of the US to secure its sudden border, and the failed economic/judicial/social policies of their host countries. The argument is for compassion for the victim, not that DACA isn't immigration. It's literally the definition of immigration. Do newborns get to choose who they were born to and where they were born? You say they are victims, but you advocate for punishing them. Why? If your parents decided to immigrate to an ISIS controlled city when you were 6 years old, and you got your head chopped off for being a white Christian, did you fuck up? Should you die for being such an idiot and moving to Syria? Newborns don't get to choose, which is why we have a million laws and protocols in place to make sure the state does a decent job at keeping children somewhat ok. The idea that it takes absolutely nothing to be a parent, meaning there are millions of garbage parents, is not a new idea. We try to fill in the gaps best we can. The idea that a child should not be blamed or punished for the mistakes of their parents is not new. Children have no expression of will, they are practically property.
A southern border wall, tech surveillance, and beefed-up border patrol would prevent more victims from entering our country. As it stands, you advocate for creating more and for encouraging lawless behavior. You don't even consider it immigration law. You don't get to choose where you're born, so let's deny birthright citizenship as well. Well, it wasn't your choice.
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Republicans have just become too used to playing their political games, and too obtuse to there being actual consequences. So, they can say things like this, because all they see is their political talking-point. They don't even see what they're actually saying.
It's impossible to actually exaggerate how disgusting, and tragically revealing, McConnell's tweet here is. "We held off funding CHIP so we could force you to choose between children and immigrant families."
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On January 20 2018 04:49 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 04:44 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:40 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:37 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. Except that not asking for reform but to continue on as in years prior. I know, its easy to forget it was Trump who blew up the DACA. The executive branch does unilaterally what Congress rejected. New executive that ran on a tougher immigration stance rescinds. Now they're shutting down the government to pressure Congress to pass it. Yeah, Schumer might regret saying it now, but he has his shills to cover his ass. On January 20 2018 04:30 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. I don't consider DACA immigration. If you've been here since you're a child, you are an American. Children should never be made to suffer for their parent's mistakes. If you illegally immigrate to America, you're subject to immigration law. In your eyes, what decisions did these children make? How much input did you have where your family lives? You haven't shown what responsibility these DACA kids have. Describe the decisions they made. They're a victim of the choices their parents made. The parents are responding to decades of failure of the US to secure its sudden border, and the failed economic/judicial/social policies of their host countries. The argument is for compassion for the victim, not that DACA isn't immigration. It's literally the definition of immigration. Do newborns get to choose who they were born to and where they were born? I'm confused, do think that's a righteous position or an unfortunate and immoral necessity?
Neither, if I understand your choices. That's their moral position from the immigration violations of their parents. It's important to get that straight (Did you read but not digest "I don't consider DACA immigration?), before we talk about what to do after. I don't consider it any great act to talk about the current 800,000 and close your eyes to the next 800,000. Kick the can and wag the moralizing finger at the opposition.
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On January 20 2018 04:54 Leporello wrote:https://twitter.com/SenateMajLdr/status/954409393507876864Republicans have just become too used to playing their political games, and too obtuse to there being actual consequences. So, they can say things like this, because all they see is their political talking-point. They don't even see what they're actually saying. It's impossible to actually exaggerate how disgusting, and tragically revealing, McConnell's tweet here is. "We held off funding CHIP so we could force you to choose between children and immigrant families." https://twitter.com/KrangTNelson/status/954131426391175168
Is that tweet a reference to Sophie's Choice?
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On January 20 2018 04:55 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 04:49 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 20 2018 04:44 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:40 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:37 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. Except that not asking for reform but to continue on as in years prior. I know, its easy to forget it was Trump who blew up the DACA. The executive branch does unilaterally what Congress rejected. New executive that ran on a tougher immigration stance rescinds. Now they're shutting down the government to pressure Congress to pass it. Yeah, Schumer might regret saying it now, but he has his shills to cover his ass. On January 20 2018 04:30 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. I don't consider DACA immigration. If you've been here since you're a child, you are an American. Children should never be made to suffer for their parent's mistakes. If you illegally immigrate to America, you're subject to immigration law. In your eyes, what decisions did these children make? How much input did you have where your family lives? You haven't shown what responsibility these DACA kids have. Describe the decisions they made. They're a victim of the choices their parents made. The parents are responding to decades of failure of the US to secure its sudden border, and the failed economic/judicial/social policies of their host countries. The argument is for compassion for the victim, not that DACA isn't immigration. It's literally the definition of immigration. Do newborns get to choose who they were born to and where they were born? I'm confused, do think that's a righteous position or an unfortunate and immoral necessity? Neither, if I understand your choices. That's their moral position from the immigration violations of their parents. It's important to get that straight (Did you read but not digest "I don't consider DACA immigration?), before we talk about what to do after. I don't consider it any great act to talk about the current 800,000 and close your eyes to the next 800,000. Kick the can and wag the moralizing finger at the opposition.
Yes I saw that. So you're saying that being the victims of their parents choices is what now?
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On January 20 2018 04:54 Leporello wrote:https://twitter.com/SenateMajLdr/status/954409393507876864Republicans have just become too used to playing their political games, and too obtuse to there being actual consequences. So, they can say things like this, because all they see is their political talking-point. They don't even see what they're actually saying. It's impossible to actually exaggerate how disgusting, and tragically revealing, McConnell's tweet here is. "We held off funding CHIP so we could force you to choose between children and immigrant families." https://twitter.com/KrangTNelson/status/954131426391175168
"We held off funding the government so we can force you to choose DACA"
I'd have less qualms if everybody agreed both sides were playing politics. But one side wants to claim moral high ground and declare themselves in the right. It kind of makes me sympathetic to McConnell's messaging.
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On January 20 2018 04:59 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 04:55 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:49 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 20 2018 04:44 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:40 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:37 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. Except that not asking for reform but to continue on as in years prior. I know, its easy to forget it was Trump who blew up the DACA. The executive branch does unilaterally what Congress rejected. New executive that ran on a tougher immigration stance rescinds. Now they're shutting down the government to pressure Congress to pass it. Yeah, Schumer might regret saying it now, but he has his shills to cover his ass. On January 20 2018 04:30 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. I don't consider DACA immigration. If you've been here since you're a child, you are an American. Children should never be made to suffer for their parent's mistakes. If you illegally immigrate to America, you're subject to immigration law. In your eyes, what decisions did these children make? How much input did you have where your family lives? You haven't shown what responsibility these DACA kids have. Describe the decisions they made. They're a victim of the choices their parents made. The parents are responding to decades of failure of the US to secure its sudden border, and the failed economic/judicial/social policies of their host countries. The argument is for compassion for the victim, not that DACA isn't immigration. It's literally the definition of immigration. Do newborns get to choose who they were born to and where they were born? I'm confused, do think that's a righteous position or an unfortunate and immoral necessity? Neither, if I understand your choices. That's their moral position from the immigration violations of their parents. It's important to get that straight (Did you read but not digest "I don't consider DACA immigration?), before we talk about what to do after. I don't consider it any great act to talk about the current 800,000 and close your eyes to the next 800,000. Kick the can and wag the moralizing finger at the opposition. Yes I saw that. So you're saying that being the victims of their parents choices is what now?
That would be their moral position. Like I said in the post.
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On January 20 2018 05:00 Danglars wrote:"We held off funding the government so we can force you to choose DACA" I'd have less qualms if everybody agreed both sides were playing politics. But one side wants to claim moral high ground and declare themselves in the right. It kind of makes me sympathetic to McConnell's messaging.
When he purposefully set up CHIP to be this bargaining chip I have 0 sympathy.
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On January 20 2018 05:01 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 04:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 20 2018 04:55 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:49 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 20 2018 04:44 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:40 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:37 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. Except that not asking for reform but to continue on as in years prior. I know, its easy to forget it was Trump who blew up the DACA. The executive branch does unilaterally what Congress rejected. New executive that ran on a tougher immigration stance rescinds. Now they're shutting down the government to pressure Congress to pass it. Yeah, Schumer might regret saying it now, but he has his shills to cover his ass. On January 20 2018 04:30 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. I don't consider DACA immigration. If you've been here since you're a child, you are an American. Children should never be made to suffer for their parent's mistakes. If you illegally immigrate to America, you're subject to immigration law. In your eyes, what decisions did these children make? How much input did you have where your family lives? You haven't shown what responsibility these DACA kids have. Describe the decisions they made. They're a victim of the choices their parents made. The parents are responding to decades of failure of the US to secure its sudden border, and the failed economic/judicial/social policies of their host countries. The argument is for compassion for the victim, not that DACA isn't immigration. It's literally the definition of immigration. Do newborns get to choose who they were born to and where they were born? I'm confused, do think that's a righteous position or an unfortunate and immoral necessity? Neither, if I understand your choices. That's their moral position from the immigration violations of their parents. It's important to get that straight (Did you read but not digest "I don't consider DACA immigration?), before we talk about what to do after. I don't consider it any great act to talk about the current 800,000 and close your eyes to the next 800,000. Kick the can and wag the moralizing finger at the opposition. Yes I saw that. So you're saying that being the victims of their parents choices is what now? That would be their moral position. Like I said in the post.
The moral position of whom is what I'm asking?
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On January 20 2018 05:00 Danglars wrote:"We held off funding the government so we can force you to choose DACA" I'd have less qualms if everybody agreed both sides were playing politics. But one side wants to claim moral high ground and declare themselves in the right. It kind of makes me sympathetic to McConnell's messaging.
And you're implying they're not? You don't give someone a nonsense ultimatum and throw a tantrum when they don't play your game. The GOP deliberately dragged their feet on this and forced the issue. And when you're playing games with children's health insurance, you automatically lose the moral high ground. The Democrats don't get to be at fault for this just because you say so.
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On January 20 2018 05:03 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 05:00 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:54 Leporello wrote:https://twitter.com/SenateMajLdr/status/954409393507876864Republicans have just become too used to playing their political games, and too obtuse to there being actual consequences. So, they can say things like this, because all they see is their political talking-point. They don't even see what they're actually saying. It's impossible to actually exaggerate how disgusting, and tragically revealing, McConnell's tweet here is. "We held off funding CHIP so we could force you to choose between children and immigrant families." https://twitter.com/KrangTNelson/status/954131426391175168 "We held off funding the government so we can force you to choose DACA" I'd have less qualms if everybody agreed both sides were playing politics. But one side wants to claim moral high ground and declare themselves in the right. It kind of makes me sympathetic to McConnell's messaging. When he purposefully set up CHIP to be this bargaining chip I have 0 sympathy.
Let's see, you get none of what you want ... and you get none of what you want. I don't like McConnell and I don't like what he'll do after this fight and for the rest of his tenure. But he's got plenty of reason to play hardball in the face of one-sided blame game. We'll get back to intraparty resolutions after.
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On January 20 2018 05:07 NewSunshine wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 05:00 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:54 Leporello wrote:https://twitter.com/SenateMajLdr/status/954409393507876864Republicans have just become too used to playing their political games, and too obtuse to there being actual consequences. So, they can say things like this, because all they see is their political talking-point. They don't even see what they're actually saying. It's impossible to actually exaggerate how disgusting, and tragically revealing, McConnell's tweet here is. "We held off funding CHIP so we could force you to choose between children and immigrant families." https://twitter.com/KrangTNelson/status/954131426391175168 "We held off funding the government so we can force you to choose DACA" I'd have less qualms if everybody agreed both sides were playing politics. But one side wants to claim moral high ground and declare themselves in the right. It kind of makes me sympathetic to McConnell's messaging. And you're implying they're not? You don't give someone a nonsense ultimatum and throw a tantrum when they don't play your game. The GOP deliberately dragged their feet on this and forced the issue. And when you're playing games with children's health insurance, you automatically lose the moral high ground. The Democrats don't get to be at fault for this just because you say so.
"Pass DACA or you get no government funding"
Nonsense ultimatums.
Both sides playing politics.
One side declaring that the other side must cave or face their wrath. It smells like 2017. Zero ownership, all politics, my shit doesn't stink.
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On January 20 2018 04:52 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 04:48 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:44 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:40 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:37 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. Except that not asking for reform but to continue on as in years prior. I know, its easy to forget it was Trump who blew up the DACA. The executive branch does unilaterally what Congress rejected. New executive that ran on a tougher immigration stance rescinds. Now they're shutting down the government to pressure Congress to pass it. Yeah, Schumer might regret saying it now, but he has his shills to cover his ass. On January 20 2018 04:30 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:20 Mohdoo wrote:
Any of you guys remember the kinda stuff our resident republicans were saying the last time the government shut down? Can't help but wonder what is so different this time. Schumer's got some gems: You know, we could do the same thing on immigration. We believe strongly in immigration reform. We could say, ‘We’re shutting down the government, we’re not gonna raise the debt ceiling, until you pass immigration reform.’ It would be governmental chaos. Life comes at you fast. I don't consider DACA immigration. If you've been here since you're a child, you are an American. Children should never be made to suffer for their parent's mistakes. If you illegally immigrate to America, you're subject to immigration law. In your eyes, what decisions did these children make? How much input did you have where your family lives? You haven't shown what responsibility these DACA kids have. Describe the decisions they made. They're a victim of the choices their parents made. The parents are responding to decades of failure of the US to secure its sudden border, and the failed economic/judicial/social policies of their host countries. The argument is for compassion for the victim, not that DACA isn't immigration. It's literally the definition of immigration. Do newborns get to choose who they were born to and where they were born? You say they are victims, but you advocate for punishing them. Why? If your parents decided to immigrate to an ISIS controlled city when you were 6 years old, and you got your head chopped off for being a white Christian, did you fuck up? Should you die for being such an idiot and moving to Syria? Newborns don't get to choose, which is why we have a million laws and protocols in place to make sure the state does a decent job at keeping children somewhat ok. The idea that it takes absolutely nothing to be a parent, meaning there are millions of garbage parents, is not a new idea. We try to fill in the gaps best we can. The idea that a child should not be blamed or punished for the mistakes of their parents is not new. Children have no expression of will, they are practically property. A southern border wall, tech surveillance, and beefed-up border patrol would prevent more victims from entering our country. As it stands, you advocate for creating more and for encouraging lawless behavior. You don't even consider it immigration law. You don't get to choose where you're born, so let's deny birthright citizenship as well. Well, it wasn't your choice.
Wait... so you don't think the children have agency, but letting them stay encourages lawless behavior... by the children that have no agency? Remember, we're discussing kicking out the children here, not adults who immigrated by choice. Being separated from your early teen child is hardly a favorable outcome that people are going to be encouraged by in attempting to cross the border, and if it honestly is then severity of the humanitarian concern vs the low number of Dreamers would probably be sufficient argument to anyone who isn't a flaming [redacted].
Besides, there comes a point where the diminishing returns of more border security become more expensive than simply having a small number of immigrants, who already have to meet some reasonably high bars for renewal of deferred action. In regards to the Dreamers, they really are a lot of the "best", to be a bit on the nose.
And please, forced removal from a place in which you've begun to establish a life isn't even f***ing comparable to just not being granted citizenship to somewhere from birth.
EDIT: Typo.
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On January 20 2018 05:07 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2018 05:01 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:59 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 20 2018 04:55 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:49 GreenHorizons wrote:On January 20 2018 04:44 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:40 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:37 Danglars wrote:On January 20 2018 04:27 Gorsameth wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:
[quote]
Schumer's got some gems:
[quote]
Life comes at you fast. Except that not asking for reform but to continue on as in years prior. I know, its easy to forget it was Trump who blew up the DACA. The executive branch does unilaterally what Congress rejected. New executive that ran on a tougher immigration stance rescinds. Now they're shutting down the government to pressure Congress to pass it. Yeah, Schumer might regret saying it now, but he has his shills to cover his ass. On January 20 2018 04:30 Mohdoo wrote:On January 20 2018 04:26 Danglars wrote:
[quote]
Schumer's got some gems:
[quote]
Life comes at you fast. I don't consider DACA immigration. If you've been here since you're a child, you are an American. Children should never be made to suffer for their parent's mistakes. If you illegally immigrate to America, you're subject to immigration law. In your eyes, what decisions did these children make? How much input did you have where your family lives? You haven't shown what responsibility these DACA kids have. Describe the decisions they made. They're a victim of the choices their parents made. The parents are responding to decades of failure of the US to secure its sudden border, and the failed economic/judicial/social policies of their host countries. The argument is for compassion for the victim, not that DACA isn't immigration. It's literally the definition of immigration. Do newborns get to choose who they were born to and where they were born? I'm confused, do think that's a righteous position or an unfortunate and immoral necessity? Neither, if I understand your choices. That's their moral position from the immigration violations of their parents. It's important to get that straight (Did you read but not digest "I don't consider DACA immigration?), before we talk about what to do after. I don't consider it any great act to talk about the current 800,000 and close your eyes to the next 800,000. Kick the can and wag the moralizing finger at the opposition. Yes I saw that. So you're saying that being the victims of their parents choices is what now? That would be their moral position. Like I said in the post. The moral position of whom is what I'm asking?
I referred to the children brought into this country as teenagers or younger. The original question is in the quote chain.
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EPT
