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On December 01 2017 20:16 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 19:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 01 2017 19:18 biology]major wrote:
This Kate steinle situation is just another's example of reverse bigotry in action I know you've been making progress so I'll try to put this the best I can. There's no such thing as "reverse bigotry" it would just be "bigotry". They never had a chance at murder with a ricocheting bullet. At the bare minimum involuntary manslaughter. I'm not gonna assume he had evil intent, you have to be a part of the jury to understand that.
I don't know enough of the details to know what I would have said if I were a juror but it hardly seems like bigotry would have anything to do with it.
Statistically speaking, it's quite remarkable he didn't get convicted though.
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On December 01 2017 19:18 biology]major wrote:
This Kate steinle situation is just another's example of reverse bigotry in action
Or they failed to prove the charge because the bullet fucking ricocheted off the fucking ground. It would have to have been the Rube Goldberg of murder plots. They might have been able to get man slaughter, but the DA decided to go with public demand and charge the illegal immigrant with murder.
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On December 01 2017 20:16 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 19:26 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 01 2017 19:18 biology]major wrote:
This Kate steinle situation is just another's example of reverse bigotry in action I know you've been making progress so I'll try to put this the best I can. There's no such thing as "reverse bigotry" it would just be "bigotry". They never had a chance at murder with a ricocheting bullet. At the bare minimum involuntary manslaughter. I'm not gonna assume he had evil intent, you have to be a part of the jury to understand that.
Redstate actually details the case well.
Cliifnotes seems to be that the man found the gun, wrapped in a t-shirt, under a public seat and it accidentally discharged the second he examined it. Since he had no prior violent history and the fact that it was a stolen police weapon with a hair trigger that required proper firearms training to safely handle, there's a good argument that he wasn't all that negligent and it was just a case of a man being in the wrong place at the wrong time examining the wrong item that so happened to accidentally discharge a bullet at the wrong angle into the wrong target. Really, its pretty difficult to fault someone to be curious about something wrapped inside a t-shirt left under a public seat.
With that information and the fact that the prosecution went straight for 1st degree murder, I can see the jury feeling he's getting the raw end of the stick. No one really disputed the facts so its all about motive. The prosecution couldn't prove any degree of murder...its really a classic case of prosecutorial overreach.
If they went for manslaughter and the argument was that he shouldn't be touching a gun if he knew he had insufficient firearms training, I imagine you'd a pretty easy guilty verdict. But they didn't so we are where we are right now.
He's still probably going to jail and deported since the jury found him guilty of being a felon in possession of a gun so people thinking he's getting away scott free are being misled by the goddamn President of the United States.
On December 01 2017 20:39 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 19:18 biology]major wrote:
This Kate steinle situation is just another's example of reverse bigotry in action Or they failed to prove the charge because the bullet fucking ricocheted off the fucking ground. It would have to have been the Rube Goldberg of murder plots. They might have been able to get man slaughter, but the DA decided to go with public demand and charge the illegal immigrant with murder.
From what I've read, it was literally a Rube Goldberg (or Mouse Trap?) situation. Wrong place, wrong time, wrong gun, wrong angle. Something straight out of a Final Destination movie.
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On December 01 2017 19:41 Wegandi wrote:
Do you have the same hate of Jeff Bezos as you do the CEO of Lockheed Martin, giant Pharma corps., all of the various CEO's of banks like Goldman Sachs/Citibank/etc. who rely on the monopoly system of patents and IP or the cronyism of the Federal Reserve? I suspect so, or if you don't, I see no evidence of it in any of your posts. It's just the "rich" this, "rich" that. If only we were good Bolsheviks and punished them for the better of the economy. Little economic substance, mostly ideology. You'll probably say the same about me. I'm very much in favor of destroying the rent-seeking nature of "companies" (in the loosest of terms) like Goldman, the MIC, Pharma's reliant on patent/IP, Government writ monopolies for utilities, etc. Those have nothing to do with Lockean view of free-enterprise. There's nothing wrong with being rich, or income inequality. There is absolutely wrong in ways some people obtain it.
Yes. Jeff Bezos is only a few steps away from literally controlling all retail. This gives him incredible control over your daily lives and it is all at his personal discretion as the richest man on earth. The government should absolutely "punish" Jeff Bezos, if only out of self-defense because he is literally a threat to the sovereignty of the state. He is beyond normal considerations of fairness.
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Anecdotally, a number of our friends have started to become uneasy with how dominant Amazon is in the reatail space. Many who I would describe as non political, blue collar families.
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I didnt realize it is such a problem in US.
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On December 01 2017 20:39 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 19:18 biology]major wrote:
This Kate steinle situation is just another's example of reverse bigotry in action Or they failed to prove the charge because the bullet fucking ricocheted off the fucking ground. It would have to have been the Rube Goldberg of murder plots. They might have been able to get man slaughter, but the DA decided to go with public demand and charge the illegal immigrant with murder.
I love it when folks see a jury verdict they don't like and say, "OMG, THERE IS NO JUSTICE."
Shoulda paid more attention in social studies class, ehh?
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On December 01 2017 21:28 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 20:39 Plansix wrote:On December 01 2017 19:18 biology]major wrote:
This Kate steinle situation is just another's example of reverse bigotry in action Or they failed to prove the charge because the bullet fucking ricocheted off the fucking ground. It would have to have been the Rube Goldberg of murder plots. They might have been able to get man slaughter, but the DA decided to go with public demand and charge the illegal immigrant with murder. I love it when folks see a jury verdict they don't like and say, "OMG, THERE IS NO JUSTICE." Shoulda paid more attention in social studies class, ehh?
Note that he was also cleared of involontary manslaughter.
It's not one of those bullshit cases where the DA goes for murder only.
I can understand people not being too happy with that...
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I don't see how a finding of not guilty on even involuntary manslaughter is unreasonable; is picking up a weapon you find an act that inherently opens one up to criminal liability? I'm not sure.
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On December 01 2017 22:40 farvacola wrote:
The jury was expressly allowed to contemplate lesser offenses and I don't see how a finding of not guilty on even involuntary manslaughter is unreasonable; is picking up a weapon you find an act that inherently opens one up to criminal liability? I'm not sure.
Don't think it should be but lets be clear. You probably shouldn't pick up a weapon if you find it lying around. Call the police and let them deal with it.
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On December 01 2017 22:41 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 22:40 farvacola wrote:
The jury was expressly allowed to contemplate lesser offenses and I don't see how a finding of not guilty on even involuntary manslaughter is unreasonable; is picking up a weapon you find an act that inherently opens one up to criminal liability? I'm not sure. Don't think it should be but lets be clear. You probably shouldn't pick up a weapon if you find it lying around. Call the police and let them deal with it.
According to a previous post it was wrapped up in a shirt
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I would probably confirm it was a real fire arm before contacting the police.
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On December 01 2017 22:47 Plansix wrote:
I would probably confirm it was a real fire arm before contacting the police.
You know how the gun got there in the first place?
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On December 01 2017 22:50 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 22:47 Plansix wrote:
I would probably confirm it was a real fire arm before contacting the police. You know how the gun got there in the first place?
No. But I've seen enough air soft guns to know I would need to hold the gun to confirm it was real.
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On December 01 2017 22:53 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2017 22:50 GreenHorizons wrote:On December 01 2017 22:47 Plansix wrote:
I would probably confirm it was a real fire arm before contacting the police. You know how the gun got there in the first place? No. But I've seen enough air soft guns to know I would need to hold the gun to confirm it was real.
Just seemed odd in general. Not that the solution proposed by the people most outraged by this makes a lick of sense anyway.
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If it wasn't 2017 I'd say this is never happening...
But Roy Moore is 70 years old lol. Better break out the juicer.
EDIT: Turns out I'm civilized enough for the Senate eh Danglars?
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On December 01 2017 23:02 Plansix wrote:
Bring back dueling.
I don't think it was ever outlawed. We just grew as a society. If you want to duel someone, I'm sure there is a way to have it legalized.
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EPT
