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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 9325

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-26 20:06:25
November 26 2017 20:03 GMT
#186481
Why is the city of Chicago making deals with the State's income tax revenue when the Illinois is billions of dollars underwater and needs every bit of income tax it can collect? This is highly irresponsible to all the non-Amazon employers in the state, as well as everyone in the state who isn't in Chicago's economic sphere.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
November 26 2017 20:06 GMT
#186482
Because captolism and bad management.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
November 26 2017 20:08 GMT
#186483
Gotta give those “job makers” sweetheart deals, no matter the cost.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Buckyman
Profile Joined May 2014
1364 Posts
November 26 2017 20:14 GMT
#186484
I think this is mainly an issue of bad governance; Chicago has too much power over Illinois. You can't blame the really blame the corporation when they just said "send in a proposal" and the city comes up with this giant pile of corruption on its own.

-----

To put the tax-kickback into perspective, they're offering Amazon about 8% of the state's income tax collections.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
November 26 2017 20:22 GMT
#186485
it's certainly an issue of bad governance; but I wouldn't say the state government of illinois is any better than the chicago city government. they're both objectively terrible (at least by Western world standards).
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-26 20:42:31
November 26 2017 20:22 GMT
#186486
Chicago isn't alone in offering terrible deals for very few jobs. And CEOs who have done these deals in the past are saying the tax perks don't have much of an impact.

On November 27 2017 05:08 LegalLord wrote:
Gotta give those “job makers” sweetheart deals, no matter the cost.


The robber barons at least called themselves "Captains of industry." Way more evocative.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
November 26 2017 20:40 GMT
#186487
On November 27 2017 04:28 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Is this Chicago thing just a weird and convoluted way of talking about tax breaks?

Yes, money is fungible.
Also, the benefit would depend upon how many jobs / income Amazon places there. Optics aside, it does work out the issue of tax breaks resulting in too few jobs for the break to be worthwhile.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
November 26 2017 21:44 GMT
#186488
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8195 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-26 21:52:01
November 26 2017 21:51 GMT
#186489
On November 27 2017 06:44 Nevuk wrote:
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/934896989539586054

Clearly the most successful ten first months for any POTUS in american history. Doesn't at all look like a dumpster fire. Look, he made the economy great again before any of his "reforms" even went into action. If that ain't amazing..

Delusionnal old fool.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
CorsairHero
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada9491 Posts
November 26 2017 21:53 GMT
#186490
i like how he doesn't mention roy moore lmao

© Current year.
Aveng3r
Profile Joined February 2012
United States2411 Posts
November 26 2017 22:10 GMT
#186491
He is just such a stupid fucking asshole
I carve marble busts of assassinated world leaders - PM for a quote
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14211 Posts
November 26 2017 22:20 GMT
#186492
At least with football stadiums you can argue there is a population that the government is serving that wants to keep the team and have a nice stadium to go to. All this shit with Amazon is getting out of hand. I'm glad Minnesota isn't anywhere near the running for it now.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
warding
Profile Joined August 2005
Portugal2397 Posts
November 26 2017 23:13 GMT
#186493
The winning state does not lose revenue by providing tax breaks to companies moving in - in which case they'd actually gain tax revenue from vat and indirect sources. Chicago offering them to Amazon is the rational course of action. The problem should be addressed by thefederal government by outlawing incentives to specific companies - the EU tries to do this even if imperfectly.
CorsairHero
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada9491 Posts
November 26 2017 23:48 GMT
#186494
fwiw
Sperling’s Best Places Super Study for Amazon HQ2
1 Atlanta 13.6
2 Boston 17.2
3 Chicago 21.7
4 Philadelphia 25.8
5 Washington DC 26.5
6 Austin 26.6
7 Dallas 27.7
8 Denver 28.3
9 New York 29.3
10 Raleigh 31.6
11 Pittsburgh 32.2
12 Toronto, Ontario 34.5
13 San Jose 34.8
14 Salt Lake City 35.7
15 San Francisco 35.9
16 Minneapolis 36.4
17 Portland 36.8
18 Nashville 37.3
19 Miami 37.4
20 Los Angeles 37.7

http://www.bestplaces.net/docs/studies/atlanta_will_be_amazons_new_home.aspx
© Current year.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
November 26 2017 23:49 GMT
#186495
On November 27 2017 08:13 warding wrote:
The winning state does not lose revenue by providing tax breaks to companies moving in - in which case they'd actually gain tax revenue from vat and indirect sources. Chicago offering them to Amazon is the rational course of action. The problem should be addressed by thefederal government by outlawing incentives to specific companies - the EU tries to do this even if imperfectly.

No qualms about corruption? Some citizens fund their social services through a state income tax, others fund the corporation that employs them through taxes levied on their pay, and nobody's tax burden changes?
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
November 26 2017 23:49 GMT
#186496
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Gahlo
Profile Joined February 2010
United States35174 Posts
November 26 2017 23:49 GMT
#186497
On November 27 2017 08:48 CorsairHero wrote:
fwiw
Show nested quote +
Sperling’s Best Places Super Study for Amazon HQ2
1 Atlanta 13.6
2 Boston 17.2
3 Chicago 21.7
4 Philadelphia 25.8
5 Washington DC 26.5
6 Austin 26.6
7 Dallas 27.7
8 Denver 28.3
9 New York 29.3
10 Raleigh 31.6
11 Pittsburgh 32.2
12 Toronto, Ontario 34.5
13 San Jose 34.8
14 Salt Lake City 35.7
15 San Francisco 35.9
16 Minneapolis 36.4
17 Portland 36.8
18 Nashville 37.3
19 Miami 37.4
20 Los Angeles 37.7

http://www.bestplaces.net/docs/studies/atlanta_will_be_amazons_new_home.aspx

So happy Philly didn't get picked.
CorsairHero
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada9491 Posts
November 26 2017 23:56 GMT
#186498
decision hasn't been made yet
© Current year.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
November 26 2017 23:58 GMT
#186499
On November 27 2017 08:49 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/934881971507023872

This article is a dumpster fire
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-11-27 00:03:30
November 26 2017 23:58 GMT
#186500
On November 27 2017 08:49 Danglars wrote:
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/934881971507023872

Pure trash. It couldn't be that we've nurtured a culture of toxic masculinity, and men in power simply abused that power, let's just excuse all the problems present in our society and handwave it as "just how men are".

It is worth mentioning the Twitter comments are even trashier. But they're not a journalist institution.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
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