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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 8589

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
August 29 2017 19:23 GMT
#171761
On August 30 2017 04:21 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:


I mean, it's not like it actually made a difference here. But this is perhaps an opportunity to see they should not have been removed.
kollin
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom8380 Posts
August 29 2017 19:23 GMT
#171762
On August 30 2017 04:15 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2017 03:51 Plansix wrote:
On August 30 2017 03:49 Danglars wrote:
On August 30 2017 03:41 Plansix wrote:
On August 30 2017 03:37 Danglars wrote:
On August 30 2017 03:24 Plansix wrote:
On August 30 2017 03:20 Danglars wrote:
On August 30 2017 02:44 Doodsmack wrote:
On August 30 2017 01:53 Danglars wrote:
On August 30 2017 00:18 Doodsmack wrote:
If things really go south during Trump's term, which is entirely conceivable, the non-racist/non-birther portion of his voters will very much regret their choice. At that point, the "liberal attitudes are offensive" argument falls apart as a defensible position. They took too large of a risk on competence - on a fake tanned, hair dyed and veneer-teethed showbiz personality, no less.

Still missing the point. They'd regret being forced into that choice, but still no closer to supporting the party that hated their guts and will slander them to make political points. Binary choices, remember.


The result of the incompetence would be too great, meaning that in this case, voting for the opposing party would have been a better result for them. In other words, they made the wrong choice in the binary choice. But your obligatory claims of people missing the point are pretty funny when you are just wrong on that.

No, you whitewash Hillary in the aftermath of her loss. A liar that rewards her friends, lights fires in North Africa, and deletes emails she doesn't want the FBI to get their mitts on can be seen as a worse result. We deserve better management of corruption? She also thinks you're deplorable, and probably doesn't do much thinking of your situation if you aren't a woman or a minority.

So basically Trump in almost every way? The guy you voted for and continue to whitewash.

More competent in her corruption and administration, greater corruption and abuse of power.

So you voted for an incompetent and racist version of the same thing?

Incompetence instead of competence in destruction. And I voted for a white man for president; so basically he was a racist by the metric of some here. I'm hardly joking, it's a pejorative and understood as one, but by definition it really had joined fascist for actual meaning.

“definition it really had joined fascist” Can you rephrase that please? I’m have a hard time parsing what you are trying to say.

Fascist showed up in Orwell's essay on Politics and the English Language. He said it now existed as simply "something not desirable." When you posit the racist choice for president, or really which racist you wanted for president, I say the word similarly exists as something like "a person I disagree with personally or politically."

He also said in that essay that politics is the defence of the indefensible. Do you think Trump is a racist or not?
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9643 Posts
August 29 2017 19:24 GMT
#171763
On August 30 2017 04:19 m4ini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2017 04:15 Plansix wrote:
I’ve known way to may racists who use racist jokes as the test to find out if they are in favorable company.


Never cracked a joke about stereotypes? Or disabled people? edit: or gender?

I think, and don't get this wrong, that people like you are as big a part of the problem as racism itself. You're not helping by screamishly pointing at anyone who's cracking a race/nationality joke.

do you, honestly? because that would be alarming. there are innumerable casual racists in the country and here you are trying to silence someone acknowledging it.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 29 2017 19:24 GMT
#171764
On August 30 2017 04:22 m4ini wrote:
Is that what P6 linked a day or two back, or something new to be pissed off about?

Different article, same topic. Regulations about government owned bridges and roads are to restrictive of government projects. I remember when the Republican’s railed against regulations on government contracts with military contractors and stifling the free market and an over reach. It is a common theme in dumb US politics.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-29 19:29:57
August 29 2017 19:26 GMT
#171765
On August 30 2017 04:24 brian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2017 04:19 m4ini wrote:
On August 30 2017 04:15 Plansix wrote:
I’ve known way to may racists who use racist jokes as the test to find out if they are in favorable company.


Never cracked a joke about stereotypes? Or disabled people? edit: or gender?

I think, and don't get this wrong, that people like you are as big a part of the problem as racism itself. You're not helping by screamishly pointing at anyone who's cracking a race/nationality joke.

do you, honestly? because that would be alarming. there are innumerable casual racists in the country and here you are trying to silence someone acknowledging it.


If it's alarming to you that someone cracks a joke based on gender, nationality, religion etc, you're an idiot.

I certainly am not a sexist, racist, antifa, antichrist because i occasionally make a funny about it. There lies the problem with racism in the US: people, again, like you. There's so many actual huge problems with institutionalised racism in the US, if jokes are your problem, well tough shit, no empathy from me.

Btw, even black/latino comedians (Kevin Hart, Gabriel Iglesias) do that, live on TV, about white men and black men, and mexicans. Because it's funny. Jesus.
On track to MA1950A.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 29 2017 19:27 GMT
#171766
On August 30 2017 04:19 Gahlo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2017 04:04 IgnE wrote:
On August 30 2017 03:49 Danglars wrote:
On August 30 2017 03:41 Plansix wrote:
On August 30 2017 03:37 Danglars wrote:
On August 30 2017 03:24 Plansix wrote:
On August 30 2017 03:20 Danglars wrote:
On August 30 2017 02:44 Doodsmack wrote:
On August 30 2017 01:53 Danglars wrote:
On August 30 2017 00:18 Doodsmack wrote:
If things really go south during Trump's term, which is entirely conceivable, the non-racist/non-birther portion of his voters will very much regret their choice. At that point, the "liberal attitudes are offensive" argument falls apart as a defensible position. They took too large of a risk on competence - on a fake tanned, hair dyed and veneer-teethed showbiz personality, no less.

Still missing the point. They'd regret being forced into that choice, but still no closer to supporting the party that hated their guts and will slander them to make political points. Binary choices, remember.


The result of the incompetence would be too great, meaning that in this case, voting for the opposing party would have been a better result for them. In other words, they made the wrong choice in the binary choice. But your obligatory claims of people missing the point are pretty funny when you are just wrong on that.

No, you whitewash Hillary in the aftermath of her loss. A liar that rewards her friends, lights fires in North Africa, and deletes emails she doesn't want the FBI to get their mitts on can be seen as a worse result. We deserve better management of corruption? She also thinks you're deplorable, and probably doesn't do much thinking of your situation if you aren't a woman or a minority.

So basically Trump in almost every way? The guy you voted for and continue to whitewash.

More competent in her corruption and administration, greater corruption and abuse of power.

So you voted for an incompetent and racist version of the same thing?

Incompetence instead of competence in destruction. And I voted for a white man for president; so basically he was a racist by the metric of some here. I'm hardly joking, it's a pejorative and understood as one, but by definition it really had joined fascist for actual meaning.


do you think "black man" or "white woman" or "asian woman" are pejorative or merely descriptive?

It depends on context. My dad is old and doesn't quite seem to get non-KKK/Nazi level racism. Sometimes he'll say black guy or blonde chick, sometimes he'll say some absolutely stupid stuff like "He was well spoken for a black guy." Which raises some alarms. I had to sit him down after Charlottesville and explain to him why people want the statues taken down and moved.

Then explain to him why majorities of the country and African Americans don't want them taken down. It's a surprisingly unpopular opinion across racial lines.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9643 Posts
August 29 2017 19:29 GMT
#171767
On August 30 2017 04:26 m4ini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2017 04:24 brian wrote:
On August 30 2017 04:19 m4ini wrote:
On August 30 2017 04:15 Plansix wrote:
I’ve known way to may racists who use racist jokes as the test to find out if they are in favorable company.


Never cracked a joke about stereotypes? Or disabled people? edit: or gender?

I think, and don't get this wrong, that people like you are as big a part of the problem as racism itself. You're not helping by screamishly pointing at anyone who's cracking a race/nationality joke.

do you, honestly? because that would be alarming. there are innumerable casual racists in the country and here you are trying to silence someone acknowledging it.


If it's alarming to you that someone cracks a joke based on gender, nationality, religion etc, you're an idiot.

I certainly am not a sexist, racist, antifa, antichrist because i occasionally make a funny about it. There lies the problem with racism in the US: people, again, like you. There's so many actual huge problems with institutionalised racism in the US, if jokes are your problem, well tough shit.

Btw, even black comedians do that, live on TV, about white men and black men. Because it's funny. Jesus.


that's all well and good and of course there's a fine line between comedy and racism. you quoted P6's accurate portrayal of how racists sometimes use comedy as a way to identify whether their company is as casually racist as themselves and your response is to shut him down, silence him, and call me an idiot for double checking your intent.

so like i was saying, the line exists and that is well and good but you're shutting down people talking about casual racism is definitely a problem. whether falsely identifying the line between comedy and racism is a problem i'm happy to discuss, but i know for sure what you're doing is a problem.
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-29 19:36:55
August 29 2017 19:31 GMT
#171768
Everyone is a tiny bit racist in some regard. One of the main things conservatives don't seem to be able to understand is racism is on a spectrum. They seem to think it's binary. You're either a Grand Wizard in the KKK and thus racist, or you're not a Grand Wizard and as such aren't a racist. Apparently dog whistles don't count. IMO it makes it easier to separate being a racist from racist acts for the purposes of demonstration.

Telling a racist joke, spreading racial stereotype, even using the word nigger are racist acts. Those actions don't NECESSARILY make you a racist...but. If you do that kind of stuff on the regular you might just be a racist. It might be time for some self reflection if you don't consider yourself a racist person but you're committing little "white" racist acts on a pretty regular basis. Surely there's a disconnect there somewhere and if you indeed aren't a racist you should work on bettering yourself. Getting to the root cause of why you're doing those acts and try to improve. That's literally the ONLY adult option.

A racist person certainly could be a Grand Wizard, but there's many shades of racist. Your grandparent if we're being real is more than likely a racist. Dear sweet granny who is so kind to you and always made you a snack and slipped you a $5 bill. It's not always ugly and that's part of the problem. Racists don't always come with undisputed proof and a huge neon sign that says "RACIST SHITBAG" like Donald Trump.

Also a black cop can be racist against blacks. I know this might be shocking stuff since Republicans love to point to useless human beings like Sheriff Clarke as some sort of proof that policing couldn't possibly be racist. Look, we got this complete hack black Sheriff dude, no racism here! But many police will tell you sometimes black officers are the most ruthless and racist against their own people. This right wing nonsense keeps going around though. Milo is gay so.....Clarke is black so.....I'm married to a woman so I can't be sexist so.......Complete and total bullshit and the sooner people get that through their heads the sooner they might start seeing fuckery afoot.

Racism now days is a lot more subtle than it has been in the past. That doesn't mean its gone anywhere.

You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968, you can't say "nigger" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger."

-Lee Atwater


Oh, and you aren't Mel Brooks or Louis CK or anyone who can masterfully craft a joke that can take a racial joke and make it stab the racist 1000 times harder so just keep that in mind. There's a reason they can do shit you can't, they are gods among men in a very specific art form.
LiquidDota Staff
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-29 19:37:48
August 29 2017 19:33 GMT
#171769
On August 30 2017 04:29 brian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2017 04:26 m4ini wrote:
On August 30 2017 04:24 brian wrote:
On August 30 2017 04:19 m4ini wrote:
On August 30 2017 04:15 Plansix wrote:
I’ve known way to may racists who use racist jokes as the test to find out if they are in favorable company.


Never cracked a joke about stereotypes? Or disabled people? edit: or gender?

I think, and don't get this wrong, that people like you are as big a part of the problem as racism itself. You're not helping by screamishly pointing at anyone who's cracking a race/nationality joke.

do you, honestly? because that would be alarming. there are innumerable casual racists in the country and here you are trying to silence someone acknowledging it.


If it's alarming to you that someone cracks a joke based on gender, nationality, religion etc, you're an idiot.

I certainly am not a sexist, racist, antifa, antichrist because i occasionally make a funny about it. There lies the problem with racism in the US: people, again, like you. There's so many actual huge problems with institutionalised racism in the US, if jokes are your problem, well tough shit.

Btw, even black comedians do that, live on TV, about white men and black men. Because it's funny. Jesus.


that's all well and good and of course there's a fine line between comedy and racism. you quoted P6's accurate portrayal of how racists sometimes use comedy as a way to identify whether their company is as casually racist as themselves and your response is to shut him down, silence him, and call me an idiot for double checking your intent.

so like i was saying, the line exists and that is well and good but you're shutting down people talking about casual racism is definitely a problem. whether falsely identifying the line between comedy and racism is a problem i'm happy to discuss, but i know for sure what you're doing is a problem.


No, i didn't. I said if it's alarming to you if someone cracks a joke, then you're an idiot. Not to mention i didn't try to silence P6, wat? To assume immediately that someone is potentially racist by cracking a joke is idiotic. There has to be a little more intent than a funny, it's that easy. It's like saying that you get alarmed if you see someone wearing white polos and khaki shorts.

Oh and it's not just me, mate. It's literally every single comedian out there. So fighting that, good luck. Tip: not gonna happen.

edit: btw, i never used the word nigger. I make fun of the use of "n-word", sure, but there are lines that aren't funny.

Oh, and you aren't Mel Brooks or Louis CK or anyone who can masterfully craft a joke that can take a racial joke and make it stab the racist 1000 times harder so just keep that in mind. There's a reason they can do shit you can't, they are gods among men in a very specific art form.


No, i can't come up with those kinda jokes, but i certainly am able to echo them.
On track to MA1950A.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 29 2017 19:34 GMT
#171770
On August 30 2017 04:19 m4ini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2017 04:15 Plansix wrote:
I’ve known way to may racists who use racist jokes as the test to find out if they are in favorable company.


Never cracked a joke about stereotypes? Or disabled people? edit: or gender?

I think, and don't get this wrong, that people like you are as big a part of the problem as racism itself. You're not helping by screamishly pointing at anyone who's cracking a race/nationality joke.

Of course I do, in good company that I know well. But I am also very aware that racist and sexist humor is used by racist and sexist people to test the waters. So I do not profess that the jokes are harmless, because that is simply not true.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
August 29 2017 19:36 GMT
#171771
On August 30 2017 04:34 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2017 04:19 m4ini wrote:
On August 30 2017 04:15 Plansix wrote:
I’ve known way to may racists who use racist jokes as the test to find out if they are in favorable company.


Never cracked a joke about stereotypes? Or disabled people? edit: or gender?

I think, and don't get this wrong, that people like you are as big a part of the problem as racism itself. You're not helping by screamishly pointing at anyone who's cracking a race/nationality joke.

Of course I do, in good company that I know well. But I am also very aware that racist and sexist humor is used by racist and sexist people to test the waters. So I do not profess that the jokes are harmless, because that is simply not true.


Actually, yes, the jokes are still harmless the same way a knife by itself is harmless. It's the way they're used in this case that differ. Maybe it's because i've never seen this approach to test the waters as you put it, usually it's clear from the first five minutes after meeting someone if there's racist tendencies. Not necessarily jokes. I'm german, we don't do jokes with people we just met.
On track to MA1950A.
brian
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States9643 Posts
August 29 2017 19:37 GMT
#171772
On August 30 2017 04:33 m4ini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2017 04:29 brian wrote:
On August 30 2017 04:26 m4ini wrote:
On August 30 2017 04:24 brian wrote:
On August 30 2017 04:19 m4ini wrote:
On August 30 2017 04:15 Plansix wrote:
I’ve known way to may racists who use racist jokes as the test to find out if they are in favorable company.


Never cracked a joke about stereotypes? Or disabled people? edit: or gender?

I think, and don't get this wrong, that people like you are as big a part of the problem as racism itself. You're not helping by screamishly pointing at anyone who's cracking a race/nationality joke.

do you, honestly? because that would be alarming. there are innumerable casual racists in the country and here you are trying to silence someone acknowledging it.


If it's alarming to you that someone cracks a joke based on gender, nationality, religion etc, you're an idiot.

I certainly am not a sexist, racist, antifa, antichrist because i occasionally make a funny about it. There lies the problem with racism in the US: people, again, like you. There's so many actual huge problems with institutionalised racism in the US, if jokes are your problem, well tough shit.

Btw, even black comedians do that, live on TV, about white men and black men. Because it's funny. Jesus.


that's all well and good and of course there's a fine line between comedy and racism. you quoted P6's accurate portrayal of how racists sometimes use comedy as a way to identify whether their company is as casually racist as themselves and your response is to shut him down, silence him, and call me an idiot for double checking your intent.

so like i was saying, the line exists and that is well and good but you're shutting down people talking about casual racism is definitely a problem. whether falsely identifying the line between comedy and racism is a problem i'm happy to discuss, but i know for sure what you're doing is a problem.


No, i didn't. I said if it's alarming to you if someone cracks a joke, then you're an idiot. Not to mention i didn't try to silence P6, wat? To assume immediately that someone is potentially racist by cracking a joke is idiotic. There has to be a little more intent than a funny, it's that easy. It's like saying that you get alarmed if you see someone wearing white polos and khaki shorts.

Oh and it's not just me, mate. It's literally every single comedian out there. So fighting that, good luck. Tip: not gonna happen.

are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?

hiding behind if-then's is childish. own your words. not to mention you explicitly called me out later with 'again, people like you.' you also said P6 is part of the problem. that's what us people call shutting down and silencing.

if you don't want to discuss casual racism fine. if you want to draw the line between comedy and racism so we can know definitively the difference- kudos. i certainly won't. so in that regard yes, we'll have to wonder if a joke is just a joke or not. but in trying to silence those who will discuss casual racism, i don't need to wonder whether or not you're a problem. you are.
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
August 29 2017 19:39 GMT
#171773
On August 30 2017 04:37 brian wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2017 04:33 m4ini wrote:
On August 30 2017 04:29 brian wrote:
On August 30 2017 04:26 m4ini wrote:
On August 30 2017 04:24 brian wrote:
On August 30 2017 04:19 m4ini wrote:
On August 30 2017 04:15 Plansix wrote:
I’ve known way to may racists who use racist jokes as the test to find out if they are in favorable company.


Never cracked a joke about stereotypes? Or disabled people? edit: or gender?

I think, and don't get this wrong, that people like you are as big a part of the problem as racism itself. You're not helping by screamishly pointing at anyone who's cracking a race/nationality joke.

do you, honestly? because that would be alarming. there are innumerable casual racists in the country and here you are trying to silence someone acknowledging it.


If it's alarming to you that someone cracks a joke based on gender, nationality, religion etc, you're an idiot.

I certainly am not a sexist, racist, antifa, antichrist because i occasionally make a funny about it. There lies the problem with racism in the US: people, again, like you. There's so many actual huge problems with institutionalised racism in the US, if jokes are your problem, well tough shit.

Btw, even black comedians do that, live on TV, about white men and black men. Because it's funny. Jesus.


that's all well and good and of course there's a fine line between comedy and racism. you quoted P6's accurate portrayal of how racists sometimes use comedy as a way to identify whether their company is as casually racist as themselves and your response is to shut him down, silence him, and call me an idiot for double checking your intent.

so like i was saying, the line exists and that is well and good but you're shutting down people talking about casual racism is definitely a problem. whether falsely identifying the line between comedy and racism is a problem i'm happy to discuss, but i know for sure what you're doing is a problem.


No, i didn't. I said if it's alarming to you if someone cracks a joke, then you're an idiot. Not to mention i didn't try to silence P6, wat? To assume immediately that someone is potentially racist by cracking a joke is idiotic. There has to be a little more intent than a funny, it's that easy. It's like saying that you get alarmed if you see someone wearing white polos and khaki shorts.

Oh and it's not just me, mate. It's literally every single comedian out there. So fighting that, good luck. Tip: not gonna happen.

are you just arguing for the sake of arguing?

hiding behind if-then's is childish. own your words. not to mention you explicitly called me out later with 'again, people like you.' you also said P6 is part of the problem. that's what us people call shutting down and silencing.

if you don't want to discuss casual racism fine. if you want to draw the line between comedy and racism so we can know definitively the difference- kudos. i certainly won't. so in that regard yes, we'll have to wonder if a joke is just a joke or not. but in trying to silence those who will discuss casual racism, i don't need to wonder whether or not you're a problem. you are.


Okay, i am. Solve it then. Otherwise, i'm not gonna go in circles whereas P6 made clear that he pretty much is the same as me, so your point really doesn't stand by itself.
On track to MA1950A.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-08-29 19:45:08
August 29 2017 19:42 GMT
#171774
On August 30 2017 04:36 m4ini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2017 04:34 Plansix wrote:
On August 30 2017 04:19 m4ini wrote:
On August 30 2017 04:15 Plansix wrote:
I’ve known way to may racists who use racist jokes as the test to find out if they are in favorable company.


Never cracked a joke about stereotypes? Or disabled people? edit: or gender?

I think, and don't get this wrong, that people like you are as big a part of the problem as racism itself. You're not helping by screamishly pointing at anyone who's cracking a race/nationality joke.

Of course I do, in good company that I know well. But I am also very aware that racist and sexist humor is used by racist and sexist people to test the waters. So I do not profess that the jokes are harmless, because that is simply not true.


Actually, yes, the jokes are still harmless the same way a knife by itself is harmless. It's the way they're used in this case that differ. Maybe it's because i've never seen this approach to test the waters as you put it, usually it's clear from the first five minutes after meeting someone if there's racist tendencies. Not necessarily jokes. I'm german, we don't do jokes with people we just met.

I completely disagree with you. We will never remove the power those words or phrases have over people. The jokes can be harmless to some people, but they will always have the potential to hurt someone or make them feel othered. I don’t think you are wrong about the idea that we can tell the jokes in the right company, but we should always view them as harmful to someone. Rather than placing the burden on the person to “not be hurt” by the joke, because we believe it is harmless.

And just to be clear, there is nothing you will tell me that will change my opinion on this specific subject. I have heard all the arguments you are about to make because I made them myself in my 20s.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
August 29 2017 19:42 GMT
#171775
On August 30 2017 03:58 m4ini wrote:
I'm starting to wonder if he actually has some form of disconnect with reality. As in, a proper medical condition.

who, trump? no moreso than has previously been surmised far as I can tell.
many proper medical conditions aren't THAT serious, yet qualify as proper medical conditions.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
August 29 2017 19:43 GMT
#171776
Former White House press secretary Sean Spicer met Pope Francis on Sunday, months after he was apparently snubbed from a visit with the leader of his Catholic faith while on a visit with President Trump.

America Magazine, a Jesuit publication, reported Tuesday that Spicer was one of several members of a U.S. delegation to the International Catholic Legislators Network in Vatican City.

The visit by Spicer comes months after Spicer was left out of the White House delegation to Vatican City in May. The White House denied that the move was made specifically to snub Spicer, but many journalists cried foul that Spicer was excluded from what was seen at the time as his only chance to meet the leader of his faith.

thehill.com

Good for him.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
August 29 2017 19:45 GMT
#171777
Trump is racist, but you don't have to be racist to vote for him.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
August 29 2017 19:46 GMT
#171778
On August 30 2017 04:31 OuchyDathurts wrote:
Everyone is a tiny bit racist in some regard. One of the main things conservatives don't seem to be able to understand is racism is on a spectrum. They seem to think it's binary. You're either a Grand Wizard in the KKK and thus racist, or you're not a Grand Wizard and as such aren't a racist. Apparently dog whistles don't count. IMO it makes it easier to separate being a racist from racist acts for the purposes of demonstration.

Telling a racist joke, spreading racial stereotype, even using the word nigger are racist acts. Those actions don't NECESSARILY make you a racist...but. If you do that kind of stuff on the regular you might just be a racist. It might be time for some self reflection if you don't consider yourself a racist person but you're committing little "white" racist acts on a pretty regular basis. Surely there's a disconnect there somewhere and if you indeed aren't a racist you should work on bettering yourself. Getting to the root cause of why you're doing those acts and try to improve. That's literally the ONLY adult option.

A racist person certainly could be a Grand Wizard, but there's many shades of racist. Your grandparent if we're being real is more than likely a racist. Dear sweet granny who is so kind to you and always made you a snack and slipped you a $5 bill. It's not always ugly and that's part of the problem. Racists don't always come with undisputed proof and a huge neon sign that says "RACIST SHITBAG" like Donald Trump.

Also a black cop can be racist against blacks. I know this might be shocking stuff since Republicans love to point to useless human beings like Sheriff Clarke as some sort of proof that policing couldn't possibly be racist. Look, we got this complete hack black Sheriff dude, no racism here! But many police will tell you sometimes black officers are the most ruthless and racist against their own people. This right wing nonsense keeps going around though. Milo is gay so.....Clarke is black so.....I'm married to a woman so I can't be sexist so.......Complete and total bullshit and the sooner people get that through their heads the sooner they might start seeing fuckery afoot.

Racism now days is a lot more subtle than it has been in the past. That doesn't mean its gone anywhere.

Show nested quote +
You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968, you can't say "nigger" — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me — because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger."

-Lee Atwater


Oh, and you aren't Mel Brooks or Louis CK or anyone who can masterfully craft a joke that can take a racial joke and make it stab the racist 1000 times harder so just keep that in mind. There's a reason they can do shit you can't, they are gods among men in a very specific art form.

The word didn't start as some spectrum where everybody's a little racist. It started and to some extent remains as a vicious charge. To the vast majority of people. And calling, for example, vast majorities of people that didn't vote Obama as motivated by racism ... that straight up insulting and demeaning for people that know why the voted that way. If you think you really know better than them as to what motivated them, you're part of the reason for the trope "liberal elitists."

And saying that you gotta be some professional skilled comic or you're a racist for telling that joke ... like, gimme a break. You're part of the reason we can't talk about racism in this country and you're making it worse.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
August 29 2017 19:46 GMT
#171779
On August 30 2017 04:45 Doodsmack wrote:
Trump is racist, but you don't have to be racist to vote for him.


You had to be willing to look the other way on racism. And if you still support him today you are in fact a racist.
LiquidDota Staff
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
August 29 2017 19:46 GMT
#171780
On August 30 2017 04:45 Doodsmack wrote:
Trump is racist, but you don't have to be racist to vote for him.

See, it is that simple.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
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