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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-26 14:18:51
July 26 2017 14:18 GMT
#163941
What tremendous medical costs do transgenders create in the military?
Neosteel Enthusiast
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 26 2017 14:21 GMT
#163942
Imran Awan, a House staffer at the center of a criminal investigation potentially impacting dozens of Democratic lawmakers, has been arrested on bank fraud and is prevented from leaving the country while the charges are pending.

A senior House Democratic aide confirmed Awan was still employed by Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.) as of Tuesday morning. But David Damron, a spokesman for Wasserman Schultz, later said that Awan was fired on Tuesday.

Awan pleaded not guilty on Tuesday to one count of bank fraud during his arraignment in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia.

Awan is accused of attempting to defraud the Congressional Federal Credit Union by obtaining a $165,000 home equity loan for a rental property, which is against the credit union’s policies since it is not the owner's primary residence. Those funds were then included as part of a wire transfer to two individuals in Faisalabad, Pakistan.

Awan was arrested at Dulles Airport on Monday evening before boarding a flight to Lahore, Pakistan. His wife, Hina Alvi, has already left the country for Pakistan along with their children. Federal agents do not believe Alvi has any intention of returning to the U.S., according to a court document.

Awan was released Tuesday on a “high-intensity supervision program,” according to a DOJ spokesman. He must wear a GPS monitor, abide by a curfew of 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. and cannot leave a 50-mile radius of his Lorton, Va., home. He was also forced to surrender his passports and is scheduled to reappear in court for a preliminary hearing Aug. 21.

"This is clearly a right-wing media-driven prosecution by a United States Attorney's Office that wants to prosecute people for working while Muslim," Chris Gowen, Awan's attorney, said in an email declaring his client's innocence.

"A quick glance at what the government filed in court today confirms the lack of evidence or proof they have against my client."

Awan, a longtime IT staffer who worked for more than two dozen House Democrats, has been at the center of a criminal investigation on Capitol Hill for months related to procurement theft. Several of his family members, also IT staffers at the time, were implicated in the ongoing investigation.

Most Democratic lawmakers cut ties with Awan and his family after the criminal investigation came to light in early February. But Awan has continued to be employed by Wasserman Schultz, although it’s unclear what his job duties are given he has been barred from accessing the House IT system for months.

Alvi, another House staff member involved in the Capitol Hill investigation, left the country with their three daughters, headed for Pakistan in March, according to an affidavit filed in the Awan case. Alvi had “numerous pieces of luggage” and more than $12,000 in cash, FBI agent Brandon Merriman wrote in the affidavit.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21961 Posts
July 26 2017 14:23 GMT
#163943
Did Fox do a piece on Manning last night? Would be the most likely reason for him suddenly banning Transgenders from the military.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15725 Posts
July 26 2017 14:29 GMT
#163944
On July 26 2017 23:18 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
What tremendous medical costs do transgenders create in the military?


I imagine the medical costs of all transgender military personnel is less than a shitty missile.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43269 Posts
July 26 2017 14:32 GMT
#163945
I'll absolutely believe that trans folk have higher healthcare costs than most. Transitioning isn't cheap and therapy is almost certainly going to be needed at some point because they're dealing with some complex and difficult issues. But they aren't exactly where I'd start when it comes to reducing healthcare costs for military personnel.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15725 Posts
July 26 2017 14:35 GMT
#163946
On July 26 2017 23:32 KwarK wrote:
I'll absolutely believe that trans folk have higher healthcare costs than most. Transitioning isn't cheap and therapy is almost certainly going to be needed at some point because they're dealing with some complex and difficult issues. But they aren't exactly where I'd start when it comes to reducing healthcare costs for military personnel.


I think this is a final favor to Sessions before he is given the boot.

"Please, I beg, just do something to marginalize the aids people"

ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9006 Posts
July 26 2017 14:36 GMT
#163947
On July 26 2017 23:32 KwarK wrote:
I'll absolutely believe that trans folk have higher healthcare costs than most. Transitioning isn't cheap and therapy is almost certainly going to be needed at some point because they're dealing with some complex and difficult issues. But they aren't exactly where I'd start when it comes to reducing healthcare costs for military personnel.

If you're a woman in the military and you believe that breast augmentation will boost morale, they'll cover it. There's a ton of wasteful shit in the military. But if someone is willing to sign up for the potential to go to combat and die, then transgender away. They served faithfully and honorably.
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-26 14:45:38
July 26 2017 14:45 GMT
#163948
On July 26 2017 23:36 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2017 23:32 KwarK wrote:
I'll absolutely believe that trans folk have higher healthcare costs than most. Transitioning isn't cheap and therapy is almost certainly going to be needed at some point because they're dealing with some complex and difficult issues. But they aren't exactly where I'd start when it comes to reducing healthcare costs for military personnel.

If you're a woman in the military and you believe that breast augmentation will boost morale, they'll cover it. There's a ton of wasteful shit in the military. But if someone is willing to sign up for the potential to go to combat and die, then transgender away. They served faithfully and honorably.


Really? It's not that I don't believe you, it is just that that seems dumb as shit.

Then again, this is the US
Something witty
ZerOCoolSC2
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
9006 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-26 15:29:31
July 26 2017 14:55 GMT
#163949
On July 26 2017 23:45 IyMoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2017 23:36 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On July 26 2017 23:32 KwarK wrote:
I'll absolutely believe that trans folk have higher healthcare costs than most. Transitioning isn't cheap and therapy is almost certainly going to be needed at some point because they're dealing with some complex and difficult issues. But they aren't exactly where I'd start when it comes to reducing healthcare costs for military personnel.

If you're a woman in the military and you believe that breast augmentation will boost morale, they'll cover it. There's a ton of wasteful shit in the military. But if someone is willing to sign up for the potential to go to combat and die, then transgender away. They served faithfully and honorably.


Really? It's not that I don't believe you, it is just that that seems dumb as shit.

Then again, this is the US

Yeah, it happened when I was serving. It's more prevalent in the AF and Navy as far as I know. Marines don't have time to do shit because we're always playing "fuck-fuck" games.

Here is a link to get started. NSFWSource

Granted, this just a Q&A board, but you can get the gist of it.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43269 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-26 15:08:08
July 26 2017 15:07 GMT
#163950
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40538805
Riley Dosh trained for four years at West Point, building towards her graduation in May. She came out in December last year, after the policy change. Then just weeks before her graduation ceremony she was told by the Pentagon she would not be allowed to join the army alongside her colleagues, despite having the full support of her command.

"I was completely blindsided by it," she says. "It was devastating that I'd gone through all of this work and all of these trials and I wasn't going to be allowed to commission. My entire life was planned out for five to 10 years, and suddenly I was going to be unemployed in three weeks."
Brad Carson, a former under secretary of defence under President Obama who led the review of transgender military policy, says cadets were supposed to be protected by the policy change. "When you sign up for the military academies you are in the military. You may not have been commissioned but you are in the military," he says.

"The country has invested hundred of thousands of dollars in educating and training these cadets," he adds. "It doesn't make any sense for the nation, for the military, or for those people themselves if they are going to be excluded. It would be a very disappointing result."
That figure is many times over the one provided by the Rand Corporation, which estimated that the total cost of transitions, including hormone treatment and surgery, would be somewhere between $2.4 million and $8.4 million annually - a 0.04% to 0.13% increase on the active duty healthcare budget.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-26 15:11:39
July 26 2017 15:08 GMT
#163951
The "cost" issue is gibberish anyway because you could always alter the provided insurance plans not to cover specific procedures and require people to pay out of pocket (unless they're required to be covered by the ACA, but I'm not sure that the ACA provisions even apply to federal health plans). It would be like saying "the cost of hypertensive drugs is too high, we need to ban hypertensive people from the military."

As always, this is mostly about keeping those icky people away, even in the public health service where it doesn't matter at all.
IyMoon
Profile Joined April 2016
United States1249 Posts
July 26 2017 15:10 GMT
#163952
On July 27 2017 00:08 TheTenthDoc wrote:
The "cost" issue is gibberish anyway because you could always alter the provided insurance plans not to cover specific procedures and require people to pay out of pocket (unless they're required to be covered by the ACA, but I'm not sure that the ACA provisions even apply to federal health plans). It would be like saying "the cost of hypertensive drugs is too high, we need to kick hypertensive people out of the military."



I think everyone is aware that cost is not the issue here.
Something witty
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
July 26 2017 15:10 GMT
#163953
On July 26 2017 23:55 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2017 23:45 IyMoon wrote:
On July 26 2017 23:36 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:
On July 26 2017 23:32 KwarK wrote:
I'll absolutely believe that trans folk have higher healthcare costs than most. Transitioning isn't cheap and therapy is almost certainly going to be needed at some point because they're dealing with some complex and difficult issues. But they aren't exactly where I'd start when it comes to reducing healthcare costs for military personnel.

If you're a woman in the military and you believe that breast augmentation will boost morale, they'll cover it. There's a ton of wasteful shit in the military. But if someone is willing to sign up for the potential to go to combat and die, then transgender away. They served faithfully and honorably.


Really? It's not that I don't believe you, it is just that that seems dumb as shit.

Then again, this is the US

Yeah, it happened when I was serving. It's more prevalent in the AF and Navy as far as I know. Marines don't have time to do shit because we're always playing "fuck-fuck" games.

Here is a link to get started. Source

Granted, this just a Q&A board, but you can get the gist of it.

Should note that link is NSFW. Might be ad specific, but still.
Average means I'm better than half of you.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
July 26 2017 15:11 GMT
#163954
On July 27 2017 00:10 IyMoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2017 00:08 TheTenthDoc wrote:
The "cost" issue is gibberish anyway because you could always alter the provided insurance plans not to cover specific procedures and require people to pay out of pocket (unless they're required to be covered by the ACA, but I'm not sure that the ACA provisions even apply to federal health plans). It would be like saying "the cost of hypertensive drugs is too high, we need to kick hypertensive people out of the military."



I think everyone is aware that cost is not the issue here.

unlikely; the way these things work, there's going to be a sizeable number of fools out there who believe that the cost actually is an issue.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-26 15:19:18
July 26 2017 15:16 GMT
#163955
Reminder that the F35 still exists.

Did Trump pick this day on purpose?

I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-26 15:21:42
July 26 2017 15:19 GMT
#163956
On July 26 2017 23:21 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
Imran Awan, a House staffer at the center of a criminal investigation potentially impacting dozens of Democratic lawmakers, has been arrested on bank fraud and is prevented from leaving the country while the charges are pending.

A senior House Democratic aide confirmed Awan was still employed by Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.) as of Tuesday morning. But David Damron, a spokesman for Wasserman Schultz, later said that Awan was fired on Tuesday.

Awan pleaded not guilty on Tuesday to one count of bank fraud during his arraignment in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia.

Awan is accused of attempting to defraud the Congressional Federal Credit Union by obtaining a $165,000 home equity loan for a rental property, which is against the credit union’s policies since it is not the owner's primary residence. Those funds were then included as part of a wire transfer to two individuals in Faisalabad, Pakistan.

Awan was arrested at Dulles Airport on Monday evening before boarding a flight to Lahore, Pakistan. His wife, Hina Alvi, has already left the country for Pakistan along with their children. Federal agents do not believe Alvi has any intention of returning to the U.S., according to a court document.

Awan was released Tuesday on a “high-intensity supervision program,” according to a DOJ spokesman. He must wear a GPS monitor, abide by a curfew of 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. and cannot leave a 50-mile radius of his Lorton, Va., home. He was also forced to surrender his passports and is scheduled to reappear in court for a preliminary hearing Aug. 21.

"This is clearly a right-wing media-driven prosecution by a United States Attorney's Office that wants to prosecute people for working while Muslim," Chris Gowen, Awan's attorney, said in an email declaring his client's innocence.

"A quick glance at what the government filed in court today confirms the lack of evidence or proof they have against my client."

Awan, a longtime IT staffer who worked for more than two dozen House Democrats, has been at the center of a criminal investigation on Capitol Hill for months related to procurement theft. Several of his family members, also IT staffers at the time, were implicated in the ongoing investigation.

Most Democratic lawmakers cut ties with Awan and his family after the criminal investigation came to light in early February. But Awan has continued to be employed by Wasserman Schultz, although it’s unclear what his job duties are given he has been barred from accessing the House IT system for months.

Alvi, another House staff member involved in the Capitol Hill investigation, left the country with their three daughters, headed for Pakistan in March, according to an affidavit filed in the Awan case. Alvi had “numerous pieces of luggage” and more than $12,000 in cash, FBI agent Brandon Merriman wrote in the affidavit.


Source


I am trying to understand how this has an impact on "potentially many Democratic lawmakers". He committed a crime for himself, by himself. At most he might have waved "I work for important people!" to get his loan railroaded through? If I decided to rob a convenience store, it has little bearing on my company.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
NovaTheFeared
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
United States7229 Posts
July 26 2017 15:24 GMT
#163957
Do you think the transgender ban is a Trump move or is Pence, notably anti-LGBT, really pulling the strings?
日本語が分かりますか
Logo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States7542 Posts
July 26 2017 15:26 GMT
#163958
On July 27 2017 00:19 ticklishmusic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 26 2017 23:21 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Imran Awan, a House staffer at the center of a criminal investigation potentially impacting dozens of Democratic lawmakers, has been arrested on bank fraud and is prevented from leaving the country while the charges are pending.

A senior House Democratic aide confirmed Awan was still employed by Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.) as of Tuesday morning. But David Damron, a spokesman for Wasserman Schultz, later said that Awan was fired on Tuesday.

Awan pleaded not guilty on Tuesday to one count of bank fraud during his arraignment in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia.

Awan is accused of attempting to defraud the Congressional Federal Credit Union by obtaining a $165,000 home equity loan for a rental property, which is against the credit union’s policies since it is not the owner's primary residence. Those funds were then included as part of a wire transfer to two individuals in Faisalabad, Pakistan.

Awan was arrested at Dulles Airport on Monday evening before boarding a flight to Lahore, Pakistan. His wife, Hina Alvi, has already left the country for Pakistan along with their children. Federal agents do not believe Alvi has any intention of returning to the U.S., according to a court document.

Awan was released Tuesday on a “high-intensity supervision program,” according to a DOJ spokesman. He must wear a GPS monitor, abide by a curfew of 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. and cannot leave a 50-mile radius of his Lorton, Va., home. He was also forced to surrender his passports and is scheduled to reappear in court for a preliminary hearing Aug. 21.

"This is clearly a right-wing media-driven prosecution by a United States Attorney's Office that wants to prosecute people for working while Muslim," Chris Gowen, Awan's attorney, said in an email declaring his client's innocence.

"A quick glance at what the government filed in court today confirms the lack of evidence or proof they have against my client."

Awan, a longtime IT staffer who worked for more than two dozen House Democrats, has been at the center of a criminal investigation on Capitol Hill for months related to procurement theft. Several of his family members, also IT staffers at the time, were implicated in the ongoing investigation.

Most Democratic lawmakers cut ties with Awan and his family after the criminal investigation came to light in early February. But Awan has continued to be employed by Wasserman Schultz, although it’s unclear what his job duties are given he has been barred from accessing the House IT system for months.

Alvi, another House staff member involved in the Capitol Hill investigation, left the country with their three daughters, headed for Pakistan in March, according to an affidavit filed in the Awan case. Alvi had “numerous pieces of luggage” and more than $12,000 in cash, FBI agent Brandon Merriman wrote in the affidavit.


Source


I am trying to understand how this has an impact on "potentially many Democratic lawmakers". He committed a crime for himself, by himself. At most he might have waved "I work for important people!" to get his loan railroaded through? If I decided to rob a convenience store, it has little bearing on my company.


I don't know about many but it looks bad for Debbie Wasserman Schultz to keep and IT person on staff that was barred from working with the IT systems while under investigation and then have that person get arrested trying to leave the country.

But yeah it seems unlikely to be anything more than someone trying to score some extra cash for themselves.
Logo
NewSunshine
Profile Joined July 2011
United States5938 Posts
July 26 2017 15:29 GMT
#163959
On July 27 2017 00:10 IyMoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2017 00:08 TheTenthDoc wrote:
The "cost" issue is gibberish anyway because you could always alter the provided insurance plans not to cover specific procedures and require people to pay out of pocket (unless they're required to be covered by the ACA, but I'm not sure that the ACA provisions even apply to federal health plans). It would be like saying "the cost of hypertensive drugs is too high, we need to kick hypertensive people out of the military."



I think everyone is aware that cost is not the issue here.

Sensible people are, but if you're going to make public headway on the issue you need to first establish how obviously bullshit that line of reasoning is.
"If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12363 Posts
July 26 2017 15:32 GMT
#163960
On July 27 2017 00:24 NovaTheFeared wrote:
Do you think the transgender ban is a Trump move or is Pence, notably anti-LGBT, really pulling the strings?


Can't be a Trump move, it was planned enough to have someone else tell him what he should write on Twitter about it.
No will to live, no wish to die
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