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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
February 25 2017 20:25 GMT
#139461
Perez has been chosen as DNC chair
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
February 25 2017 20:29 GMT
#139462
Good luck to him. Don't make the Sandernistas hate you again.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-25 20:31:44
February 25 2017 20:31 GMT
#139463
On February 26 2017 05:25 Nevuk wrote:
Perez has been chosen as DNC chair


Can't be surprised, just impressed by their hubris.

Perez literally has no idea how to even hold a meeting. Like how did that happen?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-25 20:39:21
February 25 2017 20:37 GMT
#139464
From the looks of it the other candidates basically all threw their lot in with Perez after the initial round of voting showed that they had no chance?

Well it's certainly their party, their choice. As I said I don't really care either way. But they sent the wrong message here and I'm amazed they don't see that yet.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 25 2017 20:38 GMT
#139465
Ellison is deputy chair.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
February 25 2017 20:46 GMT
#139466
On February 26 2017 05:38 Plansix wrote:
Ellison is deputy chair.


Which is meaningless, otherwise Perez would be deputy chair.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
February 25 2017 20:48 GMT
#139467
Perez advocates, what benefit do we have with Perez as the chair rather than deputy chair?
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-25 20:52:18
February 25 2017 20:50 GMT
#139468
On February 26 2017 05:48 Mohdoo wrote:
Perez advocates, what benefit do we have with Perez as the chair rather than deputy chair?


None. Absolutely none. Though I'm certainly looking forward to them trying to finally come up with something.

Also people here know how embarrassing it should be that the new Chair of the DNC doesn't know Robert's Rules, that's an impressive feat of ignorance for such a position. That has literally never happened before (where a party chair didn't know basic rules of order).
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 25 2017 20:56 GMT
#139469
On February 26 2017 05:48 Mohdoo wrote:
Perez advocates, what benefit do we have with Perez as the chair rather than deputy chair?

The confidence of all the people who voted for him. The same rules apply if Ellison won, half the party would be disappointed.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-25 21:04:53
February 25 2017 21:01 GMT
#139470
On February 26 2017 05:56 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2017 05:48 Mohdoo wrote:
Perez advocates, what benefit do we have with Perez as the chair rather than deputy chair?

The confidence of all the people who voted for him. The same rules apply if Ellison won, half the party would be disappointed.


They would have been disappointed, and then what? They would have unified and voted unanimously by acclimation for Ellison.

Trying to make it like it is the same is far to off-the-mark for you not to know that you're being silly. But is that the best Perez supporters have? I'm sure Kwiz has a page long explanation of the benefits to having Perez as chair instead of deputy chair?
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-02-25 21:10:31
February 25 2017 21:05 GMT
#139471
On February 26 2017 04:35 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
White House officials said a report disputing the threat posed by travelers from seven predominantly Muslim countries included in President Donald Trump's executive order was "not the intelligence assessment the president asked for," according to a report published Saturday by the Wall Street Journal.

“The President asked for an intelligence assessment. This is not the intelligence assessment the President asked for,” an unnamed senior administration official said as quoted in the Wall Street Journal's report.

Unnamed officials said that the report ignored information that supports the travel ban, per the report, and that they have not yet been presented with the report they requested.

The Associated Press reported on Friday that it had obtained a draft document of the report, which concluded that citizenship of the countries included in Trump's ban is an "unlikely indicator" of terrorism threat level.

When Trump announced the now-blocked ban in January, however, he specifically cited "foreign terrorist entry" as one threat it would eliminate.

“We all know what that means,” he said.

Gillian M. Christensen, acting press secretary for the Department of Homeland Security, told the Wall Street Journal that the dispute over the report was on the basis of "sources and quality, not politics."

Neither the White House nor the Department of Homeland Security immediately responded to TPM's requests for comment.


Source

'This is not the truth we want. Go away with these facts and make up new ones. We can't outright make bad decisions, just tell us it's good so we can blame you if all goes wrong'

Or another case of ' it doesn't matter what the facts are it matters how people feel'
Neosteel Enthusiast
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
February 25 2017 21:08 GMT
#139472
On February 26 2017 06:01 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2017 05:56 Plansix wrote:
On February 26 2017 05:48 Mohdoo wrote:
Perez advocates, what benefit do we have with Perez as the chair rather than deputy chair?

The confidence of all the people who voted for him. The same rules apply if Ellison won, half the party would be disappointed.


They would have been disappointed, and then what? They would have unified and voted unanimously by acclimation for Ellison.

Trying to make it like it is the same is far to off-the-mark for you not to know that you're being silly. But is that the best Perez supporters have? I'm sure Kwiz has a page long explanation of the benefits to having Perez as chair instead of deputy chair?

I always love how you insist that everyone will fall in line when you are completely unwilling to do it yourself.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
February 25 2017 21:12 GMT
#139473
On February 26 2017 05:48 Mohdoo wrote:
Perez advocates, what benefit do we have with Perez as the chair rather than deputy chair?


i was never more than about 55/45 in favor of perez, but the rabid insistence by some that ellison is somehow necessary did drive me to take sides a little more. i don't see the point of making this as a battle for the soul of the left or whatever. it pretty much shook out how i expected, perez wins and ellison is made deputy chair, the only difference being i called him vice chair.

i suppose we get the benefit of the angry bernistas and true progressives taking their ball and going home. oh who am i kidding, they'll be around to bother us about how keith ellison was one of their key conditions to possibly helping out the establishment dems who just dont get it.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
February 25 2017 21:13 GMT
#139474
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18488 Posts
February 25 2017 21:14 GMT
#139475
On February 25 2017 02:03 eviltomahawk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 25 2017 01:26 mustaju wrote:
Police charged a 51-year-old white man with first-degree murder after he allegedly shot and killed an Indian man and wounded another Indian man and a white bystander at a bar in Olathe, Kansas, Wednesday night. Federal prosecutors are investigating the incident as a possible hate crime.

Witnesses at the Austins Bar and Grill told local media they thought the attack was racially motivated. The suspect, Adam Purinton, reportedly used “racial slurs” before opening fire on two patrons of Indian nationality as they watched a basketball game on television.
Advertisement

One of the victims, Srinivas Kuchibhotla, 32, worked as an engineer for a local aviation technology company. He died at the hospital, police said. His friend, Alok Madasani, 32, also reportedly an engineer, was hospitalized and has since been released. The third victim, Ian Grillot, 24, was wounded as he tried to intervene on behalf of Kuchibhotla and Madasani, police said. He is also reported to be hospitalized in stable condition.

A witness told the Kansas City Star that the suspect shouted, “Get out of my country” before shooting Kuchibhotla and Madasani, and then fled from the bar on foot. Later that night, the newspaper reported, the suspect told a bartender at an Applebee’s in Clinton, Missouri — about 75 miles from the crime scene — that he had just murdered two Middle Eastern men and needed somewhere to hide out.

Indian news media covered the attack extensively, and Indian lawmakers and state officials took to Twitter to convey their shock and sadness. “The vicious racism unleashed in some quarters in the U.S. claims more innocent victims, who happen to be Indian,” wrote Shashi Tharoor, an Indian lawmaker, on Twitter. India’s foreign minister Sushma Swaraj wrote on Twitter that she was “shocked” by the incident. “My heartfelt condolences to bereaved family.”

Madasani Jaganmohan Reddy, father of the wounded victim, told the Hindustan Times that he wants his son to quit his job and return home. “The situation seems to be pretty bad after Trump took over as the U.S. President,” Reddy said. “I appeal to all the parents in India not to send their children to the U.S. in the present circumstances.”

A local man named Brian Ford set up a GoFundMe fund to support the victims. Ford says he lives about 15 minutes away from the bar where the attack took place and has a close friend who worked at Garmin, the company that employed the two Indian victims. As of Friday morning, Ford had raised nearly $45,000 of his $50,000 target, which he said would go to cover medical and funeral expenses for the victims.


Source


I am afraid this will not be the last such attack.

Not the first time of an attack in America for mistaken identity. Reminds of when a Chinese man was mistaken as Japanese and got beaten and killed by disgruntled unemployed auto-workers who were mad at Japanese auto-makers for ultimately causing them to get laid off.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Vincent_Chin

It's always disappointing when innocents accidentally get caught in incidents of racial tension. I just hope every incident wakes up the public enough that they become less and less common.


Because if the victim had actually been Japanese (in your case; ME in the recent case) he would have somehow been less innocent? Hate crimes are hate crimes... whether they *get* the right or wrong target is irrelevant: someone innocent is getting hurt...

GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
February 25 2017 21:23 GMT
#139476
On February 26 2017 06:08 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 26 2017 06:01 GreenHorizons wrote:
On February 26 2017 05:56 Plansix wrote:
On February 26 2017 05:48 Mohdoo wrote:
Perez advocates, what benefit do we have with Perez as the chair rather than deputy chair?

The confidence of all the people who voted for him. The same rules apply if Ellison won, half the party would be disappointed.


They would have been disappointed, and then what? They would have unified and voted unanimously by acclimation for Ellison.

Trying to make it like it is the same is far to off-the-mark for you not to know that you're being silly. But is that the best Perez supporters have? I'm sure Kwiz has a page long explanation of the benefits to having Perez as chair instead of deputy chair?

I always love how you insist that everyone will fall in line when you are completely unwilling to do it yourself.


Yeah, how stupid of me to think that Hillary supporters were sincere with their calls for unity? I insist they will "fall in line" because "falling in line" was their goddamned idea.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany12078 Posts
February 25 2017 21:28 GMT
#139477
On February 26 2017 06:14 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 25 2017 02:03 eviltomahawk wrote:
On February 25 2017 01:26 mustaju wrote:
Police charged a 51-year-old white man with first-degree murder after he allegedly shot and killed an Indian man and wounded another Indian man and a white bystander at a bar in Olathe, Kansas, Wednesday night. Federal prosecutors are investigating the incident as a possible hate crime.

Witnesses at the Austins Bar and Grill told local media they thought the attack was racially motivated. The suspect, Adam Purinton, reportedly used “racial slurs” before opening fire on two patrons of Indian nationality as they watched a basketball game on television.
Advertisement

One of the victims, Srinivas Kuchibhotla, 32, worked as an engineer for a local aviation technology company. He died at the hospital, police said. His friend, Alok Madasani, 32, also reportedly an engineer, was hospitalized and has since been released. The third victim, Ian Grillot, 24, was wounded as he tried to intervene on behalf of Kuchibhotla and Madasani, police said. He is also reported to be hospitalized in stable condition.

A witness told the Kansas City Star that the suspect shouted, “Get out of my country” before shooting Kuchibhotla and Madasani, and then fled from the bar on foot. Later that night, the newspaper reported, the suspect told a bartender at an Applebee’s in Clinton, Missouri — about 75 miles from the crime scene — that he had just murdered two Middle Eastern men and needed somewhere to hide out.

Indian news media covered the attack extensively, and Indian lawmakers and state officials took to Twitter to convey their shock and sadness. “The vicious racism unleashed in some quarters in the U.S. claims more innocent victims, who happen to be Indian,” wrote Shashi Tharoor, an Indian lawmaker, on Twitter. India’s foreign minister Sushma Swaraj wrote on Twitter that she was “shocked” by the incident. “My heartfelt condolences to bereaved family.”

Madasani Jaganmohan Reddy, father of the wounded victim, told the Hindustan Times that he wants his son to quit his job and return home. “The situation seems to be pretty bad after Trump took over as the U.S. President,” Reddy said. “I appeal to all the parents in India not to send their children to the U.S. in the present circumstances.”

A local man named Brian Ford set up a GoFundMe fund to support the victims. Ford says he lives about 15 minutes away from the bar where the attack took place and has a close friend who worked at Garmin, the company that employed the two Indian victims. As of Friday morning, Ford had raised nearly $45,000 of his $50,000 target, which he said would go to cover medical and funeral expenses for the victims.


Source


I am afraid this will not be the last such attack.

Not the first time of an attack in America for mistaken identity. Reminds of when a Chinese man was mistaken as Japanese and got beaten and killed by disgruntled unemployed auto-workers who were mad at Japanese auto-makers for ultimately causing them to get laid off.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Vincent_Chin

It's always disappointing when innocents accidentally get caught in incidents of racial tension. I just hope every incident wakes up the public enough that they become less and less common.


Because if the victim had actually been Japanese (in your case; ME in the recent case) he would have somehow been less innocent? Hate crimes are hate crimes... whether they *get* the right or wrong target is irrelevant: someone innocent is getting hurt...



I think the main point in pointing out that they got the wrong person is to show off just how stupid these criminals are. They hate some people enough to kill them, but don't know enough about them to even identify them correctly. (Though in this cases the added stupidity of telling a random barkeeper "I just murdered two guys and need to hide" takes the crown)

Of course the whole situation is more sad than funny.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46687 Posts
February 25 2017 21:32 GMT
#139478
Is there a significant difference between "Perez then Ellison" and "Ellison then Perez"? It seems like they were equally supported and don't have hugely differing views, afaik. I see their willingness to work together as a great benefit for the DNC.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
February 25 2017 21:35 GMT
#139479
On February 26 2017 06:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Is there a significant difference between "Perez then Ellison" and "Ellison then Perez"? It seems like they were equally supported and don't have hugely differing views, afaik. I see their willingness to work together as a great benefit for the DNC.


One of them was endorsed by Bernie.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24505 Posts
February 25 2017 21:40 GMT
#139480
On February 26 2017 06:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Is there a significant difference between "Perez then Ellison" and "Ellison then Perez"? It seems like they were equally supported and don't have hugely differing views, afaik. I see their willingness to work together as a great benefit for the DNC.

The significant difference was in how it would be percieved.

Ellison wins, no big deal for Hillary supporters he said enough of what they wanted on corporate donations and such (for the people who voted) and the rest of her supporters didn't care one way or the other (except for ones who saw this as a proxy fight with Bernie).

Perez wins and Democrats just kissed off upwards of 5 out of 10 millennials and a whole hell of a lot of other people.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
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