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On December 04 2016 18:16 NukeD wrote: This thread became so sad. You guys trying to rationalize everything, still buying mainstream propaganda heavilly, bashing Trump and getting triggered at his every word/move, its so funny. Im enjoying it very much. You made this thread irrelevant.
Are you really surprised people are especially scutinizing everything Trump does? The guy made frightening announcements for months and scared a lot of people and is now the most powerful man in the world.
Besides what's up with the mainstream media propaganda? You're not the only one who can determine which sources are reliable or read between the lines.
On December 04 2016 18:16 NukeD wrote: This thread became so sad. You guys trying to rationalize everything, still buying mainstream propaganda heavilly, bashing Trump and getting triggered at his every word/move, its so funny. Im enjoying it very much. You made this thread irrelevant.
This is a very trumpian post, in that it contains everything and its contrary. Is it sad or funny? Are you entertained or do you find it irrelevant?
On December 04 2016 18:16 NukeD wrote: This thread became so sad. You guys trying to rationalize everything, still buying mainstream propaganda heavilly, bashing Trump and getting triggered at his every word/move, its so funny. Im enjoying it very much. You made this thread irrelevant.
This is a very trumpian post, in that it contains everything and its contrary. Is it sad or funny? Are you entertained or do you find it irrelevant?
On the other hand, this is a very leftie SJW holier than thou post that we are so used to here. Damn it feels good to win and not have to explain yourself anymore to these quasi intelectuals here.
On December 04 2016 18:16 NukeD wrote: This thread became so sad. You guys trying to rationalize everything, still buying mainstream propaganda heavilly, bashing Trump and getting triggered at his every word/move, its so funny. Im enjoying it very much. You made this thread irrelevant.
This is a very trumpian post, in that it contains everything and its contrary. Is it sad or funny? Are you entertained or do you find it irrelevant?
On the other hand, this is a very leftie SJW holier than thou post that we are so used to here. Damn it feels good to win and not have to explain yourself anymore to these quasi intelectuals here.
None of this post is rooted in logic, and so I don't really see how I can answer in a productive way. This is a pretty good example of what I was talking about with you tanGeng, I still don't see how I'm supposed to talk to someone like that.
On December 04 2016 18:16 NukeD wrote: This thread became so sad. You guys trying to rationalize everything, still buying mainstream propaganda heavilly, bashing Trump and getting triggered at his every word/move, its so funny. Im enjoying it very much. You made this thread irrelevant.
This is a very trumpian post, in that it contains everything and its contrary. Is it sad or funny? Are you entertained or do you find it irrelevant?
On the other hand, this is a very leftie SJW holier than thou post that we are so used to here. Damn it feels good to win and not have to explain yourself anymore to these quasi intelectuals here.
On December 04 2016 18:16 NukeD wrote: This thread became so sad. You guys trying to rationalize everything, still buying mainstream propaganda heavilly, bashing Trump and getting triggered at his every word/move, its so funny. Im enjoying it very much. You made this thread irrelevant.
This is a very trumpian post, in that it contains everything and its contrary. Is it sad or funny? Are you entertained or do you find it irrelevant?
On the other hand, this is a very leftie SJW holier than thou post that we are so used to here. Damn it feels good to win and not have to explain yourself anymore to these quasi intelectuals here.
Well, aren't you a smart one :D
Its a sad state of things indeed. On another note, how bout someone here adresses the fact i presented instead of this circlejerk which exactly proved my point how pathetic this forum is.
On December 04 2016 18:16 NukeD wrote: This thread became so sad. You guys trying to rationalize everything, still buying mainstream propaganda heavilly, bashing Trump and getting triggered at his every word/move, its so funny. Im enjoying it very much. You made this thread irrelevant.
This is a very trumpian post, in that it contains everything and its contrary. Is it sad or funny? Are you entertained or do you find it irrelevant?
On the other hand, this is a very leftie SJW holier than thou post that we are so used to here. Damn it feels good to win and not have to explain yourself anymore to these quasi intelectuals here.
Well, aren't you a smart one :D
Its a sad state of things indeed. On another note, how bout someone here adresses the fact i presented instead of this circlejerk which exactly proved my point how pathetic this forum is.
What fact? You mentioned mainstream propaganda but fail to realize that Fox, Breitbart, and super-conservative and alt-right media are now mainstream just as much as CNN or MSNBC... when the American vote is split so evenly between two candidates, you can't simply say that only half the viewers and voters are mainstream while the other half have been a silent minority. Millions and millions of Americans (and millions of American voters) listen to conservative news stories that spout conspiracy theories and right-wing propaganda, which- by the way- are not only biased but also less fact-based than left-wing propaganda, so don't make it sound like the entire world is unfairly against Trump or Trump supporters. There's enough vocal disagreement to go around, and when Trump's top priority is getting in Twitter wars instead of learning how to be president, I'm sure plenty of the Trump hate is justified.
But yes, if your "fact" was to merely state that people are critical of Trump... then yeah, sure. But I don't think anyone is surprised by that or would expect anything less?
On December 04 2016 18:16 NukeD wrote: This thread became so sad. You guys trying to rationalize everything, still buying mainstream propaganda heavilly, bashing Trump and getting triggered at his every word/move, its so funny. Im enjoying it very much. You made this thread irrelevant.
This is a very trumpian post, in that it contains everything and its contrary. Is it sad or funny? Are you entertained or do you find it irrelevant?
On the other hand, this is a very leftie SJW holier than thou post that we are so used to here. Damn it feels good to win and not have to explain yourself anymore to these quasi intelectuals here.
Well, aren't you a smart one :D
Its a sad state of things indeed. On another note, how bout someone here adresses the fact i presented instead of this circlejerk which exactly proved my point how pathetic this forum is.
What fact? You mentioned mainstream propaganda but fail to realize that Fox, Breitbart, and super-conservative and alt-right media are now mainstream just as much as CNN or MSNBC... when the American vote is split so evenly between two candidates, you can't simply say that only half the viewers and voters are mainstream while the other half have been a silent minority. Millions and millions of Americans (and millions of American voters) listen to conservative news stories that spout conspiracy theories and right-wing propaganda, which- by the way- are not only biased but also less fact-based than left-wing propaganda, so don't make it sound like the entire world is unfairly against Trump or Trump supporters. There's enough vocal disagreement to go around, and when Trump's top priority is getting in Twitter wars instead of learning how to be president, I'm sure plenty of the Trump hate is justified.
But yes, if your "fact" was to merely state that people are critical of Trump... then yeah, sure. But I don't think anyone is surprised by that or would expect anything less?
False, Fox news is less biased toward Trump than CNN, MSNBC, Washington Posts,etc. toward Hillary.
During the campaign in Fox news, the anchors show less emotional connection to Trump than CNN, MSNBC, Washington Posts,etc. toward Hillary.
And we can clearly see collusion between CNN and Hillary Clinton to push out Sanders from the Wikileaks while Trump never got such advantages.
Even now, Fox news have been on the heels on pushing Trumps on keeping his promises.
Trump's hate is only justified through exaggeration and total disregards of facts.
RiK -> I disagree on some of those. I don't recall anchors showing any significant emotional connection to hillary on cnn. I don't watch msnbc so can't say there. When you say bias, are you saying it in a negative way (as in some sort of unjustified bias, rather than preferences soundly and entirely rooted in facts)
The collusion you cite was minimal.
Trump hate/dislike requires no exaggeration and can be rooted entirely in facts (though some do go outside them to get there). Not sure how you can not see that given how thoroughly it's been explained in thread.
but it's hard to do this argument because many of these claims are vague and hard to prove/disprove. making things more specific would help.
On December 04 2016 18:16 NukeD wrote: This thread became so sad. You guys trying to rationalize everything, still buying mainstream propaganda heavilly, bashing Trump and getting triggered at his every word/move, its so funny. Im enjoying it very much. You made this thread irrelevant.
This is a very trumpian post, in that it contains everything and its contrary. Is it sad or funny? Are you entertained or do you find it irrelevant?
On the other hand, this is a very leftie SJW holier than thou post that we are so used to here. Damn it feels good to win and not have to explain yourself anymore to these quasi intelectuals here.
Well, aren't you a smart one :D
Its a sad state of things indeed. On another note, how bout someone here adresses the fact i presented instead of this circlejerk which exactly proved my point how pathetic this forum is.
What fact? You mentioned mainstream propaganda but fail to realize that Fox, Breitbart, and super-conservative and alt-right media are now mainstream just as much as CNN or MSNBC... when the American vote is split so evenly between two candidates, you can't simply say that only half the viewers and voters are mainstream while the other half have been a silent minority. Millions and millions of Americans (and millions of American voters) listen to conservative news stories that spout conspiracy theories and right-wing propaganda, which- by the way- are not only biased but also less fact-based than left-wing propaganda, so don't make it sound like the entire world is unfairly against Trump or Trump supporters. There's enough vocal disagreement to go around, and when Trump's top priority is getting in Twitter wars instead of learning how to be president, I'm sure plenty of the Trump hate is justified.
But yes, if your "fact" was to merely state that people are critical of Trump... then yeah, sure. But I don't think anyone is surprised by that or would expect anything less?
False, Fox news is less biased toward Trump than CNN, MSNBC, Washington Posts,etc. toward Hillary.
During the campaign in Fox news, the anchors show less emotional connection to Trump than CNN, MSNBC, Washington Posts,etc. toward Hillary.
And we can clearly see collusion between CNN and Hillary Clinton to push out Sanders from the Wikileaks while Trump never got such advantages.
Even now, Fox news have been on the heels on pushing Trumps on keeping his promises.
Trump's hate is only justified through exaggeration and total disregards of facts.
I would say Fox is more biased toward establishment republicanism than Trump.If Trump does sell out to the establishment expect to see them get behind him whole heartedly.There's already signs of him selling out - he appointed the goldman sachs guy to treasury secretary i believe? It ain't looking too good but we will have to see.Certainly I haven't seen many happy with that decision.
As for CNN they provided some classic footage during the campaign.This is my personal favourite of a congressman being cut off as soon as he mentions wikileaks.The host here is the same guy who claimed it was illegal for members of the public to look at the wikileaks documents.
Nope, the entire Trump hate is purely conjured up because people's ideology that they want Hillary in because she is a women and started calling Trump racists when he said he doesn't want illegal immigrants which is xenophobic at best.
Then people just utilizes confusing languages with emotional fallacies that have no facts attached to them to paint Trump in a certain tone resulting in naive people buying the narratives.
Let's face it, the identify politics have to stop from the leftists in order for people to take them seriously again because at this point, the journalists at CNN, MSNBC, etc. should be ashamed of themselves as their biases were off the chart during the campaign.
On December 04 2016 23:58 RealityIsKing wrote: Nope, the entire Trump hate is purely conjured up because people's ideology that they want Hillary in because she is a women and started calling Trump racists when he said he doesn't want illegal immigrants which is xenophobic at best.
Then people just utilizes confusing languages with emotional fallacies that have no facts attached to them to paint Trump in a certain tone resulting in naive people buying the narratives.
Let's face it, the identify politics have to stop from the leftists in order for people to take them seriously again because at this point, the journalists at CNN, MSNBC, etc. should be ashamed of themselves as their biases were off the chart during the campaign.
what do you mean by "trump hate"? I'm not sure which things you're classifying as trump hate. e.g. does saying he's unfit to be president classify as trump hate?
and please don't use the term identity politics; it's useless and overused. it never improves the discussion and is rarely well-defined in an agreeable way.
And their biases were not anywhere near off the charts ,if you think that, then you haven't seen what true bias looks like.
On December 04 2016 23:58 RealityIsKing wrote: Nope, the entire Trump hate is purely conjured up because people's ideology that they want Hillary in because she is a women and started calling Trump racists when he said he doesn't want illegal immigrants which is xenophobic at best.
Then people just utilizes confusing languages with emotional fallacies that have no facts attached to them to paint Trump in a certain tone resulting in naive people buying the narratives.
Let's face it, the identify politics have to stop from the leftists in order for people to take them seriously again because at this point, the journalists at CNN, MSNBC, etc. should be ashamed of themselves as their biases were off the chart during the campaign.
You shouldn't make such sweeping generalizations. Not only is it bad reasoning, it severely undercuts your point.
In this case it's easily apparent to pretty much everyone that even if HRC supporters were being intellectually dishonest, they must have had a greater variety of reasons for supporting her than that she's a woman. As a trivial proof of that, remember a lot of us supported Bernie in the primary.
Anyway HRC doesn't matter now. He's gonna be president, so comparisons to his defeated opponent are useless. Now he has to be judged purely on the merit of his words and actions, which is what we were trying to do before you came to tell us all how biased we and major news outlets are towards Hillary, which is irrelevant at this point anyway.
On December 04 2016 13:49 Nyxisto wrote: You haven't responded to Trump's stance on TPP which exacted precisely to combat China's influence in the region, why would Trump drop out of it if he wants to challenge China?
The TPP as currently constituted is the wrong vehicle for that objective. Maximal preservation of the American economy and its industrial base is a higher priority,
A pretty good overview of the TPP's economic and strategic impacts can be found in Michael J. Green and Matthew P. Goodman's analysis "After TPP: the Geopolitics of Asia and the Pacific", that you can read here (see also Mireya Solís' "The case for the Trans-Pacific Partnership", found here, that I already linked to in a previous post).
While there is obviously always room for debate on the economic consequences of trade deals such as this one, it can very well be argued that the TPP would benefit the American economy in various ways, in particular by boosting competitive employment sectors in the services industry, thus making easier a transition that will have to happen anyway. Some analysts point out that while some workers will be adversely affected by the deal, they would clearly be in the minority (and in this respect the answer should be to do more to help those affected negatively rather than scrap the deal). They also predict a slightly positive impact on wages, and others predict it would "confer net benefits to households at all levels of income" and not increase income inequality. Those analyses obviously have to be taken with more than a grain of salt, and not all analysts agree on the consequences of the deal, but one can be more than skeptical that not passing the TPP would result in "maximal preservation of the American economy" -- in fact, the opposite can be argued.
With regards to the strategic implications of the TPP when it comes to competing American and Chinese influences in the Pacific area, your argument falls apart even more. While the TPP is certainly not the be-all and end-all of U.S. strategy in the Pacific, it is certainly a solid vehicle to assert U.S. leadership in the definition of trade norms, to pull several states closer to the U.S., and to strengthen key American allies in the region (such as Japan).
On December 04 2016 23:58 RealityIsKing wrote: Nope, the entire Trump hate is purely conjured up because people's ideology that they want Hillary in because she is a women and started calling Trump racists when he said he doesn't want illegal immigrants which is xenophobic at best.
Then people just utilizes confusing languages with emotional fallacies that have no facts attached to them to paint Trump in a certain tone resulting in naive people buying the narratives.
Let's face it, the identify politics have to stop from the leftists in order for people to take them seriously again because at this point, the journalists at CNN, MSNBC, etc. should be ashamed of themselves as their biases were off the chart during the campaign.
If they wanted Clinton in so badly why did they basically only cover her emails? Refuse to broadcast or talk about her policy talks? FFS CNN once literally just had the camera on an empty podium WAITING for Trump to appear for like 30 mins while Clinton was giving a policy speech. So yea if you count crowding out Clinton from the media unless it was to talk about Benghazi for the millionth time or her emails then no, no there really wasn't.
Clinton got shit from the mainstream media. They were too busy scrambling for the next ratings high because Trump is the golden asshole that keeps giving.
On December 04 2016 23:58 RealityIsKing wrote: Nope, the entire Trump hate is purely conjured up because people's ideology that they want Hillary in because she is a women and started calling Trump racists when he said he doesn't want illegal immigrants which is xenophobic at best.
Then people just utilizes confusing languages with emotional fallacies that have no facts attached to them to paint Trump in a certain tone resulting in naive people buying the narratives.
Let's face it, the identify politics have to stop from the leftists in order for people to take them seriously again because at this point, the journalists at CNN, MSNBC, etc. should be ashamed of themselves as their biases were off the chart during the campaign.
There were hundreds of reasons not to support Trump that have nothing whatsoever to do with identity politics. If anything, the fact that MSM focused on identity politics helped Trump, because few media outlets pointed out he pushed vacuous non-plan after unimplementable garbage after fundamental policy misunderstanding.
I mean, there's a reason Trump probably would have lost an election held right after the last debate, and it has nothing to do with identity politics.
On December 04 2016 23:58 RealityIsKing wrote: Nope, the entire Trump hate is purely conjured up because people's ideology that they want Hillary in because she is a women and started calling Trump racists when he said he doesn't want illegal immigrants which is xenophobic at best.
Then people just utilizes confusing languages with emotional fallacies that have no facts attached to them to paint Trump in a certain tone resulting in naive people buying the narratives.
Let's face it, the identify politics have to stop from the leftists in order for people to take them seriously again because at this point, the journalists at CNN, MSNBC, etc. should be ashamed of themselves as their biases were off the chart during the campaign.
There were hundreds of reasons not to support Trump that have nothing whatsoever to do with identity politics. If anything, the fact that MSM focused on identity politics helped Trump, because few media outlets pointed out he pushed vacuous non-plan after unimplementable garbage after fundamental policy misunderstanding.
I mean, there's a reason Trump probably would have lost an election held right after the last debate, and it has nothing to do with identity politics.
Her debate performances were weak, only in this thread do people somehow consider them to be a success. Ignore Trump for a moment, she was supposed to be a policy wonk and have deep knowledge on key issues including immigration, foreign policy, tax structure. All we heard were generalities and standard political rhetoric. If you don't have any charisma or charm, then just completely avoid that game and stick to the issues and explain with your deep understanding why nation building is a good idea, why deporting millions of people is a bad idea, or why the tax code right now is unfair to the middle class. She could have easily done this next to the apparent simpleton that is Trump, but it wasn't there. In the end she wasn't even able to display her policy wonk skills.
On December 04 2016 23:58 RealityIsKing wrote: Nope, the entire Trump hate is purely conjured up because people's ideology that they want Hillary in because she is a women and started calling Trump racists when he said he doesn't want illegal immigrants which is xenophobic at best.
Then people just utilizes confusing languages with emotional fallacies that have no facts attached to them to paint Trump in a certain tone resulting in naive people buying the narratives.
Let's face it, the identify politics have to stop from the leftists in order for people to take them seriously again because at this point, the journalists at CNN, MSNBC, etc. should be ashamed of themselves as their biases were off the chart during the campaign.
There were hundreds of reasons not to support Trump that have nothing whatsoever to do with identity politics. If anything, the fact that MSM focused on identity politics helped Trump, because few media outlets pointed out he pushed vacuous non-plan after unimplementable garbage after fundamental policy misunderstanding.
I mean, there's a reason Trump probably would have lost an election held right after the last debate, and it has nothing to do with identity politics.
Her debate performances were weak, only in this thread do people somehow consider them to be a success. Ignore Trump for a moment, she was supposed to be a policy wonk and have deep knowledge on key issues including immigration, foreign policy, tax structure. All we heard were generalities and standard political rhetoric. If you don't have any charisma or charm, then just completely avoid that game and stick to the issues and explain with your deep understanding why nation building is a good idea, why deporting millions of people is a bad idea, or why the tax code right now is unfair to the middle class. She could have easily done this next to the apparent simpleton that is Trump, but it wasn't there. In the end she wasn't even able to display her policy wonk skills.
No, she very clearly won the debates; even most of the Trump voters in here acknowledged that (so did the post-debate polls). We all just underestimated how strong the anti-trade/rural working class vote would come through for Trump given that most everyone focused on Hispanics as the swing demographic.
On December 04 2016 23:58 RealityIsKing wrote: Nope, the entire Trump hate is purely conjured up because people's ideology that they want Hillary in because she is a women and started calling Trump racists when he said he doesn't want illegal immigrants which is xenophobic at best.
Then people just utilizes confusing languages with emotional fallacies that have no facts attached to them to paint Trump in a certain tone resulting in naive people buying the narratives.
Let's face it, the identify politics have to stop from the leftists in order for people to take them seriously again because at this point, the journalists at CNN, MSNBC, etc. should be ashamed of themselves as their biases were off the chart during the campaign.
There were hundreds of reasons not to support Trump that have nothing whatsoever to do with identity politics. If anything, the fact that MSM focused on identity politics helped Trump, because few media outlets pointed out he pushed vacuous non-plan after unimplementable garbage after fundamental policy misunderstanding.
I mean, there's a reason Trump probably would have lost an election held right after the last debate, and it has nothing to do with identity politics.
Her debate performances were weak, only in this thread do people somehow consider them to be a success. Ignore Trump for a moment, she was supposed to be a policy wonk and have deep knowledge on key issues including immigration, foreign policy, tax structure. All we heard were generalities and standard political rhetoric. If you don't have any charisma or charm, then just completely avoid that game and stick to the issues and explain with your deep understanding why nation building is a good idea, why deporting millions of people is a bad idea, or why the tax code right now is unfair to the middle class. She could have easily done this next to the apparent simpleton that is Trump, but it wasn't there. In the end she wasn't even able to display her policy wonk skills.
i'ts not only in this thread that we consider her debate performances good. It's also in numerous well aggregated widespread polls. So please stop posting utterly untrue nonsense which is easily dispelled by googling. Asserting things as true that are just plain wrong is very unhelpful.
I agree she should've focused more on policy; and tried to go full wonk (despite that tending to get very little attention, and she did do it some and got totally ignored when she did so).
edit: this election reminds me of the adage "there's no such thing as bad publicity"
On December 04 2016 23:58 RealityIsKing wrote: Nope, the entire Trump hate is purely conjured up because people's ideology that they want Hillary in because she is a women and started calling Trump racists when he said he doesn't want illegal immigrants which is xenophobic at best.
Then people just utilizes confusing languages with emotional fallacies that have no facts attached to them to paint Trump in a certain tone resulting in naive people buying the narratives.
Let's face it, the identify politics have to stop from the leftists in order for people to take them seriously again because at this point, the journalists at CNN, MSNBC, etc. should be ashamed of themselves as their biases were off the chart during the campaign.
There were hundreds of reasons not to support Trump that have nothing whatsoever to do with identity politics. If anything, the fact that MSM focused on identity politics helped Trump, because few media outlets pointed out he pushed vacuous non-plan after unimplementable garbage after fundamental policy misunderstanding.
I mean, there's a reason Trump probably would have lost an election held right after the last debate, and it has nothing to do with identity politics.
Her debate performances were weak, only in this thread do people somehow consider them to be a success. Ignore Trump for a moment, she was supposed to be a policy wonk and have deep knowledge on key issues including immigration, foreign policy, tax structure. All we heard were generalities and standard political rhetoric. If you don't have any charisma or charm, then just completely avoid that game and stick to the issues and explain with your deep understanding why nation building is a good idea, why deporting millions of people is a bad idea, or why the tax code right now is unfair to the middle class. She could have easily done this next to the apparent simpleton that is Trump, but it wasn't there. In the end she wasn't even able to display her policy wonk skills.
His point isn't that Hillary is good compared to trump, but that trump himself is bad. Please don't jump on the last sentence that was an example of something to do with Hillary to price his point compared to the anti-trump argument that he made.
EPT
