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United Kingdom13775 Posts
We all went on about how the Republican Party lost its way. Well that may be true - and to a large extent it is - but I think we may have looked past the fact that the Democratic Party is similarly lost. We had Obama, who did a good enough job, but it was clear that just below the surface, we have a party that is no better than the Republicans. Their most loyal supporters get the short end of the stick because they decided to be too loyal, and they were anyways expected to fall in line.
The entire reopening of the investigation drama made me lose a lot of faith in the Democrats. This loss of theirs in Congress was well-earned because they used arrogance as an excuse to try to push someone that no one liked, and expected people to fall in line. And while many did, they pissed off just enough people to give a resounding victory to the other side.
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On November 09 2016 16:20 DickMcFanny wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 16:14 Danglars wrote:On November 09 2016 15:57 opisska wrote:
Naively taken, for me as an outsider, this result is absolutely absurd. The whole "two bad options" melodrama has been completely fabricated - maybe Hillary wasn't the most loveable candidate, but in any normal place or time, her "terrible flaws" would have been seen as normal features of a career politician. Yet, millions of people got somehow convinced that she is the same "evil" as a guy who boasts about touching women, spits hate about anyone he feels like the given week and generally doesn't seem to be able to run a bicycle, not to mention a country. This is just some enormous feat of marketing, it will be studied for centuries, I am sure of that.
But then I started to learn details about how does America work. For example the whole talk about voter IDs, election availablity etc.. this level of difficulty so many people have voting is totally unreal. I am not sure that americans even realize it, because they are used to it, but there is something terribly wrong with the whole country, if people "can't afford to vote" for this or that reason. I mean, in Czech Republic, you just casually drop by after work to a polling place, of which there are so many everywhere and vote - if there are queues for more than a couple of minute, someone is gonna get yelled at very, very hard.
But the rabbit hole really goes deeper - how come that in one of the most developed, richest and powerful country, there are so many people who struggle to go by every day? Even more interestingly, who managed to convince those people that more of free market capitalism is the solution? How can a right-wing candidate take decisive support from the working class? It does not make any fucking sense. The solution to most of american issue is obviously modern moderate socialism - but nobody sees that! HOW?
I should not really surprised that you guys elected a muppet, after all, we (Czech Rep.) have one as president (luckily, without much of actual power) and several other nearby countries have some elected representatives highly questionable personalities (and the brits voted bloody yes on the most stupid question ever), I am just genuinely surprised that you voted this particular muppet - a rich billionaire who never did anything useful in his life and has no interest in any real social politics. First off, this was a major wakeup call, perhaps the last one you'll hear in a while, that This campaign was always about the lesser of two evils.For you particularly, but not for the rest of the country, it's also about It is insanely easy for people to vote.Trump was an easy choice for the white working class. The Democratic party had empty promises for years, the Republican party mostly the same, and here comes the outsider candidate promising hope and change. + Show Spoiler +On October 30 2016 05:18 Danglars wrote:![[image loading]](http://assets.amuniversal.com/da7a82807d980134e3a7005056a9545d) Easy choice. Hate the choices, accept the choice. But I promised myself to not go full ham on a naive take. Half the country is waking up to modern journalism and the people they've left behind while saying minorities have been left behind. The reality check is just hitting and they'll STILL claim Clinton was great but America wasn't ready to accept her. So go read the hillbilly elegy, polling on immigration & Syrian refugees & obamacare and grasp why Trump was the better choice of two bad choices. Why doesn't the American working class need clean drinking water, air or food? How can you possible vote for someone who wants to abolish the EPA?
I love how his supporters are under the impression that someone who started off with millions of free dollars of his dad's money can in any way sympathize with, understand, or even care about the "working class" and its struggles.
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On November 09 2016 16:31 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 16:24 Diavlo wrote:On November 09 2016 16:14 imBLIND wrote:On November 09 2016 16:07 ChristianS wrote:On November 09 2016 15:43 LegalLord wrote:On November 09 2016 15:35 ChristianS wrote:
Boy, there's gonna be a lot of self-righteous Bernie supporters in the next few weeks. And they're gonna be completely wrong, because we have zero reason to think Bernie would have done better, and they're going to refuse to listen to that. So that'll be obnoxious. On November 09 2016 15:13 LegalLord wrote:
If Bernie won, there would be no FBI investigation, no "my enemy belongs in prison," no DNC rigging, and probably no leaks. He would have been hammered for socialism and for being a hippie who supported dictators, but in contrast to Hillary fewer people would have such a strong visceral reaction to voting against him. I am quite sure he would have won. My argument to the contrary. I think it would have been enough. An under-appreciated subthread of this electoral cycle: how hard it is to predict a presidential election. We had about as much information as you could possibly ask for to predict an election, short of seeing the results. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of interviews with voters going right up to the eve of the election, and still even 538, by far one of the more conservative models in this regard, gave Clinton 70%. To think that you could predict with any accuracy a hypothetical alternate timeline purely based on a brief knowledge of each individual and their strengths and weaknesses is bordering on absurd. Perhaps no one want's to publicly admit they are voting for Trump? Perhaps the media is eschewing interview videos where the person is in favor of Trump? All in all, I rest easy knowing that Trump, in practicality and on paper, should not be able to single handedly ruin the country. Even with a Republican Congress, I believe that many of his reforms won't make it through, considering he has made so many enemies. The worst thing is that with the Republican refusing to let Obama appoint a supreme court judge (in an unprecedented way) Trump will get to appoint another conservative one. Looking back at these last few years the best and worst policies in the US were ruled in the Supreme Court (affordable care act, citizen United, etc), one more conservative judge can change everything. Also forget every executive order Obama signed... It's not unprecedented and it's also not illegal. They are not required to hold a hearing or make a decision on the nominee and Obama can retract his nomination any time he wants. They are working within the constitution and as long as they are doing that, it's up to the voters to punish them for doing disagreeable things. But as you can see, the people seem to be with congress on this one. Also, Trump does not want a conservative Supreme Court Justice. Personally, he wants someone who will strike down New York Times Co. vs. Sullivan, someone who is anti 1st amendment. His vice president wants someone who will overrule Roe vs. Wade. They are not interested in conservatism or originalism or textualism at all. Hopefully congress will have the guts to stand up to Trump but I doubt it. In any case, the democracy has spoken. Now lets see what they actually said. This is the first time ever I've felt less safe because of an american president. 
Trump's first pick will be someone from "the list," and if Mitch doesn't push it through, then we might get a lefty nominee. But he'll just try to do what he "promised" first.
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Democrats should have voted for Sanders rather than this super-etablishment smuggy lady, fresh blood was needed.
You totally deserve Trump.
Moreover, as a french who is fed up to see that my country is the total follower of the imperialist foreign policy of USA, I'm not that upset.
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TLADT24920 Posts
So, what are the chances on any re-counts being done?
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On November 09 2016 16:35 mierin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 16:20 DickMcFanny wrote:On November 09 2016 16:14 Danglars wrote:On November 09 2016 15:57 opisska wrote:
Naively taken, for me as an outsider, this result is absolutely absurd. The whole "two bad options" melodrama has been completely fabricated - maybe Hillary wasn't the most loveable candidate, but in any normal place or time, her "terrible flaws" would have been seen as normal features of a career politician. Yet, millions of people got somehow convinced that she is the same "evil" as a guy who boasts about touching women, spits hate about anyone he feels like the given week and generally doesn't seem to be able to run a bicycle, not to mention a country. This is just some enormous feat of marketing, it will be studied for centuries, I am sure of that.
But then I started to learn details about how does America work. For example the whole talk about voter IDs, election availablity etc.. this level of difficulty so many people have voting is totally unreal. I am not sure that americans even realize it, because they are used to it, but there is something terribly wrong with the whole country, if people "can't afford to vote" for this or that reason. I mean, in Czech Republic, you just casually drop by after work to a polling place, of which there are so many everywhere and vote - if there are queues for more than a couple of minute, someone is gonna get yelled at very, very hard.
But the rabbit hole really goes deeper - how come that in one of the most developed, richest and powerful country, there are so many people who struggle to go by every day? Even more interestingly, who managed to convince those people that more of free market capitalism is the solution? How can a right-wing candidate take decisive support from the working class? It does not make any fucking sense. The solution to most of american issue is obviously modern moderate socialism - but nobody sees that! HOW?
I should not really surprised that you guys elected a muppet, after all, we (Czech Rep.) have one as president (luckily, without much of actual power) and several other nearby countries have some elected representatives highly questionable personalities (and the brits voted bloody yes on the most stupid question ever), I am just genuinely surprised that you voted this particular muppet - a rich billionaire who never did anything useful in his life and has no interest in any real social politics. First off, this was a major wakeup call, perhaps the last one you'll hear in a while, that This campaign was always about the lesser of two evils.For you particularly, but not for the rest of the country, it's also about It is insanely easy for people to vote.Trump was an easy choice for the white working class. The Democratic party had empty promises for years, the Republican party mostly the same, and here comes the outsider candidate promising hope and change. + Show Spoiler +On October 30 2016 05:18 Danglars wrote: Easy choice. Hate the choices, accept the choice. But I promised myself to not go full ham on a naive take. Half the country is waking up to modern journalism and the people they've left behind while saying minorities have been left behind. The reality check is just hitting and they'll STILL claim Clinton was great but America wasn't ready to accept her. So go read the hillbilly elegy, polling on immigration & Syrian refugees & obamacare and grasp why Trump was the better choice of two bad choices. Why doesn't the American working class need clean drinking water, air or food? How can you possible vote for someone who wants to abolish the EPA? I love how his supporters are under the impression that someone who started off with millions of free dollars of his dad's money can in any way sympathize with, understand, or even care about the "working class" and its struggles.
He rode the working class to victory at any rate.
and in all honesty if he got rid of obamacare and did nothing else for 4 years i wouldnt give a single fuck.
that would be enough for me and most people i know
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On November 09 2016 16:35 mierin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 16:20 DickMcFanny wrote:On November 09 2016 16:14 Danglars wrote:On November 09 2016 15:57 opisska wrote:
Naively taken, for me as an outsider, this result is absolutely absurd. The whole "two bad options" melodrama has been completely fabricated - maybe Hillary wasn't the most loveable candidate, but in any normal place or time, her "terrible flaws" would have been seen as normal features of a career politician. Yet, millions of people got somehow convinced that she is the same "evil" as a guy who boasts about touching women, spits hate about anyone he feels like the given week and generally doesn't seem to be able to run a bicycle, not to mention a country. This is just some enormous feat of marketing, it will be studied for centuries, I am sure of that.
But then I started to learn details about how does America work. For example the whole talk about voter IDs, election availablity etc.. this level of difficulty so many people have voting is totally unreal. I am not sure that americans even realize it, because they are used to it, but there is something terribly wrong with the whole country, if people "can't afford to vote" for this or that reason. I mean, in Czech Republic, you just casually drop by after work to a polling place, of which there are so many everywhere and vote - if there are queues for more than a couple of minute, someone is gonna get yelled at very, very hard.
But the rabbit hole really goes deeper - how come that in one of the most developed, richest and powerful country, there are so many people who struggle to go by every day? Even more interestingly, who managed to convince those people that more of free market capitalism is the solution? How can a right-wing candidate take decisive support from the working class? It does not make any fucking sense. The solution to most of american issue is obviously modern moderate socialism - but nobody sees that! HOW?
I should not really surprised that you guys elected a muppet, after all, we (Czech Rep.) have one as president (luckily, without much of actual power) and several other nearby countries have some elected representatives highly questionable personalities (and the brits voted bloody yes on the most stupid question ever), I am just genuinely surprised that you voted this particular muppet - a rich billionaire who never did anything useful in his life and has no interest in any real social politics. First off, this was a major wakeup call, perhaps the last one you'll hear in a while, that This campaign was always about the lesser of two evils.For you particularly, but not for the rest of the country, it's also about It is insanely easy for people to vote.Trump was an easy choice for the white working class. The Democratic party had empty promises for years, the Republican party mostly the same, and here comes the outsider candidate promising hope and change. + Show Spoiler +On October 30 2016 05:18 Danglars wrote: Easy choice. Hate the choices, accept the choice. But I promised myself to not go full ham on a naive take. Half the country is waking up to modern journalism and the people they've left behind while saying minorities have been left behind. The reality check is just hitting and they'll STILL claim Clinton was great but America wasn't ready to accept her. So go read the hillbilly elegy, polling on immigration & Syrian refugees & obamacare and grasp why Trump was the better choice of two bad choices. Why doesn't the American working class need clean drinking water, air or food? How can you possible vote for someone who wants to abolish the EPA? I love how his supporters are under the impression that someone who started off with millions of free dollars of his dad's money can in any way sympathize or understand the "working class" and its struggles.
Because you'd need an education to get that far in reasoning apparently.
Combination of a big middle finger to the establishment and DNC electing most establishment oriented ticket possibly ever definitely didn't help.
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On November 09 2016 16:30 bardtown wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 16:28 hunts wrote:On November 09 2016 16:26 bardtown wrote:
So, how long until the left in the US accepts that not all Trump supporters are terrible racist bigots? Pro-EU folks in the UK still haven't figured it out, and that campaign only lasted a few months.
Hope the UK can make the most of this, somehow. Could be a strange dynamic with Farage in Trump's camp/May. It won't happen, and for good reason. I hope you understand that you are the cause of this  . I'm going to revel in the resentment of people like you who dismiss others so readily, giving their movement exactly what it needs to succeed.
Grats, I don't care. The people who voted for trump are the ones who will be hurt the most by the damage he will do to the economy anyway so I really don't care, and I simply have no respect for anyone who voted or supported trump, and I never will.
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On November 09 2016 16:28 wuhan_clan wrote:
All the liberals and minorities crying is hilarious. You guys realize your life is going to be exactly the same right? Just because Trump is president means a bunch of KKK members are going to all of a sudden go out and start rounding up and killing black people or muslims or hispanics?! That all of a sudden there is going to be a huge racial tension in the country? Well according to liberal propaganda, there already is, and that happened under a black president.
Fucking untwist your panties and relax. Nothing is going to happen to you.
(PS, I'm a minority)
With a Republican house, Senate, justice court and president things get definitely get a lot different, things like the affordable care act, abortion regulation, preventive care can be in danger and I'm pretty sure those affect a lot of people.
And what's the point of voting for Trump if you don't expect anything to change? I thought that what the whole reason of his candidacy, change the status quo.
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President Donald J. Trump. Can't believe how far we have come, feels like only yesterday I was hoping he would catch up to low energy Jeb.
Unreal.
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On November 09 2016 13:38 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 13:32 LegalLord wrote:
32% reporting, Washington favors Trump.
Well GH, I have to say that regardless of who wins Washington in the end, even I didn't believe you this far. This general election has thoroughly vindicated you - though I'm not sure that we're all happy with what that will cost us all. Live drone shot of Kwizach's election party + Show Spoiler +User was temp banned for this post.
That was actually funny (well, in a very dark way considering the contents of the image) :p Not so much the result of the election, though, obviously. I don't live in the U.S. and won't be impacted as much, but I pity those who do. At least, those who actually voted for Clinton know we did the right thing to try to avoid that result. Those who didn't will have to live with the fact that they didn't do what they could have to help prevent his victory.
On November 09 2016 13:37 Introvert wrote:What about Kwizach? And ticklish?
I'm very disappointed, obviously. Did you think I was going to be happy about it? :-)
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On November 09 2016 16:28 wuhan_clan wrote:
All the liberals and minorities crying is hilarious. You guys realize your life is going to be exactly the same right? Just because Trump is president means a bunch of KKK members are going to all of a sudden go out and start rounding up and killing black people or muslims or hispanics?! That all of a sudden there is going to be a huge racial tension in the country? Well according to liberal propaganda, there already is, and that happened under a black president.
Fucking untwist your panties and relax. Nothing is going to happen to you.
(PS, I'm a minority)
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Look at after Brexit what happened. And i have way less faith on american than british rofl
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On November 09 2016 16:36 BigFan wrote:
So, what are the chances on any re-counts being done?
New Hampshire is a high chance. Michigan and PA look to be middling chances.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On November 09 2016 16:38 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 16:36 BigFan wrote:
So, what are the chances on any re-counts being done? New Hampshire is a high chance. Michigan and PA look to be middling chances.
ya, fair enough. The smaller the difference, the higher chance of recount. Still waiting for it to be announced officially but I think I've hit my limit. Guess I'll take the AP declaration and roll with it.
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On November 09 2016 16:37 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 13:37 Introvert wrote:On November 09 2016 13:35 CorsairHero wrote:
how is p6 doing right now
What about Kwizach? And ticklish? I'm very disappointed, obviously. Did you think I was going to be happy about it? :-)
I was looking for live updates from our more passionate Hillary supporters
Really underrepresented here today.
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TLADT24920 Posts
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On November 09 2016 16:40 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2016 16:38 cLutZ wrote:On November 09 2016 16:36 BigFan wrote:
So, what are the chances on any re-counts being done? New Hampshire is a high chance. Michigan and PA look to be middling chances. ya, fair enough. The smaller the difference, the higher chance of recount. Still waiting for it to be announced officially but I think I've hit my limit. Guess I'll take the AP declaration and roll with it.
Not going to be very close, except for maybe the amount of votes in total.
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Any idea where I can watch the speeches?
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Im so happy right now.
Trump is obviously the funnier choice for all of us.
No establishment behind him can only be a good thing, he is not supported by Qatar and ISIS and he wants to step towards Putin. Of course he is not the perfect man to do the job, but he is a better choice than Hillary. I hope she goes to jail now for what she did.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i0.wp.com/www.whaleoil.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Jonestown-2.jpg)
