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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On October 14 2016 23:05 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2016 22:56 Thieving Magpie wrote:On October 14 2016 22:40 Kickboxer wrote:
The relationship between genders when it comes to sex and courtship (seduction) is an extremely complicated matter, and there is no simple way to address it. I do agree women remain far too vulnerable to actual assault and sexual bullying, and that this is a real issue we need to work on, but the term "rape culture" is simply not the best one, and the people fighting for the cause need to choose another banner in addition to facing some serious issues they have willfully chosen to ignore.
Women simply do prefer assertive powerful men. They do prefer "aggressive" men. It might be deeply illogical and unfortunate, but it is a pragmatic fact of reality. It is the way Homo Sapiens mates, and anyone honest with themselves who's not angered by their own sexual frustration will begrudgingly recognize this.
A vast majority of females (that have not experienced sexual trauma of course) strongly prefer a hint of "sexual aggression", they do respond to "dominance", they do respond to a certain degree of autonomous boldness, and sometimes you simply do have to kiss the girl (or as "dogs" would figuratively put it "grab her by the pussy"), or you will lose her to a more confident man - even though she is not holding up a consent poster. Until the split second the woman actively resists (which is the clear line of real sexual assault as far as I am concerned) the distinction between "alpha" behavior that often brings great real-life success with women, and cancerous behavior that terrorizes them is nearly impossible to draw.
And that, in a nutshell, is why some people are willing to forgive Trump for his "locker room" talk (though he is still a pig because he's clearly crossed this line habitually).
Cat-calling is also a nuanced concept because it is in many ways an instinctive response to the sexual power an attractive woman willingly exerts upon the male subconsciousness. No, this does not mean they "deserve" to be groped let alone assaulted (!), but it is a particular form of violence against men that I feel is never properly addressed.
What I just said perhaps makes some people facepalm and cringe, but your problem then lies with the factual reality of sexual relations between men and women and not with my speculation.
Women rage about the necessity of wearing make-up 24/7 and about being objectified all the time, but most of them nevertheless spend half their money and time specifically on the task of appearing sexually attractive to men in a radius as wide as possible, because that gives them vast amounts of "soft" power over men.
Our culture has been glorifying female sexual liberation for 30 years non-stop, in addition to enforcing highly dubious ideas of "gender fluidity" marshaled by the exact same people using the term rape culture, to a point where most female celebrities (women adored and mimicked by young girls all across the world) are famous for some kind of porn, and many of them, frankly, act like sluts - or more precisely, they act like men. Why don't we ever talk about that? Do you think this contributes to the problem of rape culture or not?
Post-Samantha, in the age of Miley Cyrus and the Kardashians, is it safe to say we have a "whore culture" problem in addition to a "rape culture" problem? Is this a legitimate topic to discuss or am I deplorable? I don't know but if someone is triggered by the obscene (and deliberately obtuse) way I framed this, they should understand that championing beta behavior as a one-stop solution to the issues of violence between genders triggers many people, too, and directly helps politicians like Trump rally the silent majority. 1.) People are attracted to the options around them. If they live in a culture that values rape, they will be attracted to rapey things. Women are not "illogically" attracted to it, its a side effect that rape permeates so much of the culture that often the choice women have is to either fetish it or become celibate. 2.) Women wear makeup because the west is such a misogynistic culture, it is impossible for women to feel value outside of their own bodies. Western culture emphasizes the importance of the female body as a fuck toy to rape that in order for many women engaged in that culture, beautification to maximize the value they are told to have becomes primary. 3.) There is no such thing as a whore problem. Women enjoying sex is a not a whore problem. A whore problem is when you disallow and make illegal for women to earn an income and women are forced to become whores to make ends meet. A woman enjoying sex is, in and of itself, normal. Now if women walked around, grabbing little boys dicks, going to school and and took videos of little boys peeing, broke into peoples houses and fucked men at gun point, then you can talk about women acting too much like men. But just because they like having sex too--that's a fairly stupid thing to bring up. 4.) The reason women are doing the things you observe them doing is because the west glorifies rape. Women, also being part of western culture, can't help but be forced to engage in it as well. That's what the fucking word culture means--its the thing a group of people do. The reason its illogical and seems to serve people's interest other than the woman's is because the west is a misogynistic culture that doesn't give a fuck about the woman's thoughts and ideas. And then teaches the woman to think the same. Regarding your point 4: Okay, so when I fantasize about having a guy tie me up and forcefully penetrating my pussy then I am just being manipulated in thinking that I would enjoy being dominated in such a fashion? It couldn't possibly have anything to do with the duality of man? Or the belief in a higher authority (be it a King, God aka religion or potentially a husband/spouse) and the willingness to be slave to any of those parties? The kind of submission versus domination that exists within all people because of our immensely complex brains? It is all about rape culture and glorification that is forced into my brain at a young age? I don't think I would be willing to accept that I have so little consciousness regarding myself that this is not inherent to me and possibly most human beings to a lesser or greater extent.
Cavemen and Cavewomen did not find cars sexy, since there were no cars to find sexy.
Children of the dark ages did not find astronauts cool, because there were no astronauts to find cool.
People do not enjoy/fetish/desire/hate something until that thing exists in that culture. Both men and women are able to feel those same things to that same object. Both men and women fetish and desire movie stars. Both men and women fetish and desire cars. And both men and women fetish and desire rape--because men and women fetish and desire the things within their culture.
Rape is part of western culture, has been for centuries. As such, its is not unnatural for people within western culture, both men and women, to fetish and desire it. It is only even an option *because* it is such a big and important part of western culture.
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On October 14 2016 23:09 Antyee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2016 22:56 Thieving Magpie wrote:On October 14 2016 22:40 Kickboxer wrote:
The relationship between genders when it comes to sex and courtship (seduction) is an extremely complicated matter, and there is no simple way to address it. I do agree women remain far too vulnerable to actual assault and sexual bullying, and that this is a real issue we need to work on, but the term "rape culture" is simply not the best one, and the people fighting for the cause need to choose another banner in addition to facing some serious issues they have willfully chosen to ignore.
Women simply do prefer assertive powerful men. They do prefer "aggressive" men. It might be deeply illogical and unfortunate, but it is a pragmatic fact of reality. It is the way Homo Sapiens mates, and anyone honest with themselves who's not angered by their own sexual frustration will begrudgingly recognize this.
A vast majority of females (that have not experienced sexual trauma of course) strongly prefer a hint of "sexual aggression", they do respond to "dominance", they do respond to a certain degree of autonomous boldness, and sometimes you simply do have to kiss the girl (or as "dogs" would figuratively put it "grab her by the pussy"), or you will lose her to a more confident man - even though she is not holding up a consent poster. Until the split second the woman actively resists (which is the clear line of real sexual assault as far as I am concerned) the distinction between "alpha" behavior that often brings great real-life success with women, and cancerous behavior that terrorizes them is nearly impossible to draw.
And that, in a nutshell, is why some people are willing to forgive Trump for his "locker room" talk (though he is still a pig because he's clearly crossed this line habitually).
Cat-calling is also a nuanced concept because it is in many ways an instinctive response to the sexual power an attractive woman willingly exerts upon the male subconsciousness. No, this does not mean they "deserve" to be groped let alone assaulted (!), but it is a particular form of violence against men that I feel is never properly addressed.
What I just said perhaps makes some people facepalm and cringe, but your problem then lies with the factual reality of sexual relations between men and women and not with my speculation.
Women rage about the necessity of wearing make-up 24/7 and about being objectified all the time, but most of them nevertheless spend half their money and time specifically on the task of appearing sexually attractive to men in a radius as wide as possible, because that gives them vast amounts of "soft" power over men.
Our culture has been glorifying female sexual liberation for 30 years non-stop, in addition to enforcing highly dubious ideas of "gender fluidity" marshaled by the exact same people using the term rape culture, to a point where most female celebrities (women adored and mimicked by young girls all across the world) are famous for some kind of porn, and many of them, frankly, act like sluts - or more precisely, they act like men. Why don't we ever talk about that? Do you think this contributes to the problem of rape culture or not?
Post-Samantha, in the age of Miley Cyrus and the Kardashians, is it safe to say we have a "whore culture" problem in addition to a "rape culture" problem? Is this a legitimate topic to discuss or am I deplorable? I don't know but if someone is triggered by the obscene (and deliberately obtuse) way I framed this, they should understand that championing beta behavior as a one-stop solution to the issues of violence between genders triggers many people, too, and directly helps politicians like Trump rally the silent majority. 1.) People are attracted to the options around them. If they live in a culture that values rape, they will be attracted to rapey things. Women are not "illogically" attracted to it, its a side effect that rape permeates so much of the culture that often the choice women have is to either fetish it or become celibate. 2.) Women wear makeup because the west is such a misogynistic culture, it is impossible for women to feel value outside of their own bodies. Western culture emphasizes the importance of the female body as a fuck toy to rape that in order for many women engaged in that culture, beautification to maximize the value they are told to have becomes primary. 3.) There is no such thing as a whore problem. Women enjoying sex is a not a whore problem. A whore problem is when you disallow and make illegal for women to earn an income and women are forced to become whores to make ends meet. A woman enjoying sex is, in and of itself, normal. Now if women walked around, grabbing little boys dicks, going to school and and took videos of little boys peeing, broke into peoples houses and fucked men at gun point, then you can talk about women acting too much like men. But just because they like having sex too--that's a fairly stupid thing to bring up. 4.) The reason women are doing the things you observe them doing is because the west glorifies rape. Women, also being part of western culture, can't help but be forced to engage in it as well. That's what the fucking word culture means--its the thing a group of people do. The reason its illogical and seems to serve people's interest other than the woman's is because the west is a misogynistic culture that doesn't give a fuck about the woman's thoughts and ideas. And then teaches the woman to think the same. This is probably the most anti-women thing I read in a very long time. You are saying that women are too weak to have a mind of their own, make decisions for themselves or just do anything not for men. It's not western society but you who think they are only fuck toys.
This line of argument is so lazy that you should be ashamed of yourself.
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In a world in which pigs like Trump, DSK, Berlusconi, etc. can get to the highest functions; in a world in which only a tiny part of rapes are punished, with victims being frequently blamed for their behaviour/clothes/etc.; in a video game board in which the term “rape” is routinely used to describe brutal domination over an opponent, often in an admiring way; a bunch of males gather and claim that the only reason to use a feminist concept, as questionable as it may be, is to earn the sexual favours of feminists.
Fascinating.
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On October 14 2016 23:09 Antyee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2016 22:56 Thieving Magpie wrote:On October 14 2016 22:40 Kickboxer wrote:
The relationship between genders when it comes to sex and courtship (seduction) is an extremely complicated matter, and there is no simple way to address it. I do agree women remain far too vulnerable to actual assault and sexual bullying, and that this is a real issue we need to work on, but the term "rape culture" is simply not the best one, and the people fighting for the cause need to choose another banner in addition to facing some serious issues they have willfully chosen to ignore.
Women simply do prefer assertive powerful men. They do prefer "aggressive" men. It might be deeply illogical and unfortunate, but it is a pragmatic fact of reality. It is the way Homo Sapiens mates, and anyone honest with themselves who's not angered by their own sexual frustration will begrudgingly recognize this.
A vast majority of females (that have not experienced sexual trauma of course) strongly prefer a hint of "sexual aggression", they do respond to "dominance", they do respond to a certain degree of autonomous boldness, and sometimes you simply do have to kiss the girl (or as "dogs" would figuratively put it "grab her by the pussy"), or you will lose her to a more confident man - even though she is not holding up a consent poster. Until the split second the woman actively resists (which is the clear line of real sexual assault as far as I am concerned) the distinction between "alpha" behavior that often brings great real-life success with women, and cancerous behavior that terrorizes them is nearly impossible to draw.
And that, in a nutshell, is why some people are willing to forgive Trump for his "locker room" talk (though he is still a pig because he's clearly crossed this line habitually).
Cat-calling is also a nuanced concept because it is in many ways an instinctive response to the sexual power an attractive woman willingly exerts upon the male subconsciousness. No, this does not mean they "deserve" to be groped let alone assaulted (!), but it is a particular form of violence against men that I feel is never properly addressed.
What I just said perhaps makes some people facepalm and cringe, but your problem then lies with the factual reality of sexual relations between men and women and not with my speculation.
Women rage about the necessity of wearing make-up 24/7 and about being objectified all the time, but most of them nevertheless spend half their money and time specifically on the task of appearing sexually attractive to men in a radius as wide as possible, because that gives them vast amounts of "soft" power over men.
Our culture has been glorifying female sexual liberation for 30 years non-stop, in addition to enforcing highly dubious ideas of "gender fluidity" marshaled by the exact same people using the term rape culture, to a point where most female celebrities (women adored and mimicked by young girls all across the world) are famous for some kind of porn, and many of them, frankly, act like sluts - or more precisely, they act like men. Why don't we ever talk about that? Do you think this contributes to the problem of rape culture or not?
Post-Samantha, in the age of Miley Cyrus and the Kardashians, is it safe to say we have a "whore culture" problem in addition to a "rape culture" problem? Is this a legitimate topic to discuss or am I deplorable? I don't know but if someone is triggered by the obscene (and deliberately obtuse) way I framed this, they should understand that championing beta behavior as a one-stop solution to the issues of violence between genders triggers many people, too, and directly helps politicians like Trump rally the silent majority. 1.) People are attracted to the options around them. If they live in a culture that values rape, they will be attracted to rapey things. Women are not "illogically" attracted to it, its a side effect that rape permeates so much of the culture that often the choice women have is to either fetish it or become celibate. 2.) Women wear makeup because the west is such a misogynistic culture, it is impossible for women to feel value outside of their own bodies. Western culture emphasizes the importance of the female body as a fuck toy to rape that in order for many women engaged in that culture, beautification to maximize the value they are told to have becomes primary. 3.) There is no such thing as a whore problem. Women enjoying sex is a not a whore problem. A whore problem is when you disallow and make illegal for women to earn an income and women are forced to become whores to make ends meet. A woman enjoying sex is, in and of itself, normal. Now if women walked around, grabbing little boys dicks, going to school and and took videos of little boys peeing, broke into peoples houses and fucked men at gun point, then you can talk about women acting too much like men. But just because they like having sex too--that's a fairly stupid thing to bring up. 4.) The reason women are doing the things you observe them doing is because the west glorifies rape. Women, also being part of western culture, can't help but be forced to engage in it as well. That's what the fucking word culture means--its the thing a group of people do. The reason its illogical and seems to serve people's interest other than the woman's is because the west is a misogynistic culture that doesn't give a fuck about the woman's thoughts and ideas. And then teaches the woman to think the same. This is probably the most anti-women thing I read in a very long time. You are saying that women are too weak to have a mind of their own, make decisions for themselves or just do anything not for men. It's not western society but you who think they are only fuck toys.
Read it again. Slower, and use a dictionary for the words you don't understand. Because I fail to see how women enjoying things in the culture they are in equates to being weak minded to you. I don't even see how that equates to them being fuck toys being I don't actually talk about anything in those points about them being fuck toys.
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On October 14 2016 23:16 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2016 23:09 Antyee wrote:On October 14 2016 22:56 Thieving Magpie wrote:On October 14 2016 22:40 Kickboxer wrote:
The relationship between genders when it comes to sex and courtship (seduction) is an extremely complicated matter, and there is no simple way to address it. I do agree women remain far too vulnerable to actual assault and sexual bullying, and that this is a real issue we need to work on, but the term "rape culture" is simply not the best one, and the people fighting for the cause need to choose another banner in addition to facing some serious issues they have willfully chosen to ignore.
Women simply do prefer assertive powerful men. They do prefer "aggressive" men. It might be deeply illogical and unfortunate, but it is a pragmatic fact of reality. It is the way Homo Sapiens mates, and anyone honest with themselves who's not angered by their own sexual frustration will begrudgingly recognize this.
A vast majority of females (that have not experienced sexual trauma of course) strongly prefer a hint of "sexual aggression", they do respond to "dominance", they do respond to a certain degree of autonomous boldness, and sometimes you simply do have to kiss the girl (or as "dogs" would figuratively put it "grab her by the pussy"), or you will lose her to a more confident man - even though she is not holding up a consent poster. Until the split second the woman actively resists (which is the clear line of real sexual assault as far as I am concerned) the distinction between "alpha" behavior that often brings great real-life success with women, and cancerous behavior that terrorizes them is nearly impossible to draw.
And that, in a nutshell, is why some people are willing to forgive Trump for his "locker room" talk (though he is still a pig because he's clearly crossed this line habitually).
Cat-calling is also a nuanced concept because it is in many ways an instinctive response to the sexual power an attractive woman willingly exerts upon the male subconsciousness. No, this does not mean they "deserve" to be groped let alone assaulted (!), but it is a particular form of violence against men that I feel is never properly addressed.
What I just said perhaps makes some people facepalm and cringe, but your problem then lies with the factual reality of sexual relations between men and women and not with my speculation.
Women rage about the necessity of wearing make-up 24/7 and about being objectified all the time, but most of them nevertheless spend half their money and time specifically on the task of appearing sexually attractive to men in a radius as wide as possible, because that gives them vast amounts of "soft" power over men.
Our culture has been glorifying female sexual liberation for 30 years non-stop, in addition to enforcing highly dubious ideas of "gender fluidity" marshaled by the exact same people using the term rape culture, to a point where most female celebrities (women adored and mimicked by young girls all across the world) are famous for some kind of porn, and many of them, frankly, act like sluts - or more precisely, they act like men. Why don't we ever talk about that? Do you think this contributes to the problem of rape culture or not?
Post-Samantha, in the age of Miley Cyrus and the Kardashians, is it safe to say we have a "whore culture" problem in addition to a "rape culture" problem? Is this a legitimate topic to discuss or am I deplorable? I don't know but if someone is triggered by the obscene (and deliberately obtuse) way I framed this, they should understand that championing beta behavior as a one-stop solution to the issues of violence between genders triggers many people, too, and directly helps politicians like Trump rally the silent majority. 1.) People are attracted to the options around them. If they live in a culture that values rape, they will be attracted to rapey things. Women are not "illogically" attracted to it, its a side effect that rape permeates so much of the culture that often the choice women have is to either fetish it or become celibate. 2.) Women wear makeup because the west is such a misogynistic culture, it is impossible for women to feel value outside of their own bodies. Western culture emphasizes the importance of the female body as a fuck toy to rape that in order for many women engaged in that culture, beautification to maximize the value they are told to have becomes primary. 3.) There is no such thing as a whore problem. Women enjoying sex is a not a whore problem. A whore problem is when you disallow and make illegal for women to earn an income and women are forced to become whores to make ends meet. A woman enjoying sex is, in and of itself, normal. Now if women walked around, grabbing little boys dicks, going to school and and took videos of little boys peeing, broke into peoples houses and fucked men at gun point, then you can talk about women acting too much like men. But just because they like having sex too--that's a fairly stupid thing to bring up. 4.) The reason women are doing the things you observe them doing is because the west glorifies rape. Women, also being part of western culture, can't help but be forced to engage in it as well. That's what the fucking word culture means--its the thing a group of people do. The reason its illogical and seems to serve people's interest other than the woman's is because the west is a misogynistic culture that doesn't give a fuck about the woman's thoughts and ideas. And then teaches the woman to think the same. This is probably the most anti-women thing I read in a very long time. You are saying that women are too weak to have a mind of their own, make decisions for themselves or just do anything not for men. It's not western society but you who think they are only fuck toys. This line of argument is so lazy that you should be ashamed of yourself.
I can't be at fault for him saying that.
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On October 14 2016 22:33 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2016 22:19 Little-Chimp wrote:On October 14 2016 21:59 Plansix wrote:On October 14 2016 21:54 Little-Chimp wrote:On October 14 2016 17:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:On October 14 2016 16:56 WhiteDog wrote:On October 14 2016 14:08 JW_DTLA wrote:On October 14 2016 13:17 Nyxisto wrote:
Haven't followed the thread much yesterday so I've got no idea if the Michelle speech has been posted but it was pretty great, best one of the election imo I just watched it after work. I teared up. Michelle: + Show Spoiler +I am now watching the DJT Florida speech in full. DJT literally can't say a true thing. He has gone completely Assange/Wikileaks. DJT doesn't even bother to offer counter evidence to all the accusers. All he has is "false smears" and "lies". He talks and talks about everyone in the world is lying about him, but he won't sue anyone. Can't his goons see this? + Show Spoiler + "This is so bad, this is so sad, Trump is obscene and brag about gropping women. He is so bad. Moral, moral, moral, moral, moral." I'm not defending Trump at all, especially if he actually did what he was bragging about. But the fact is that a campaign that has nothing to say aside than talking about the moral of its candidates is a failed campaign. It's the degree 0 of politics. And this is somewhat described as a great speech. It's not just "moral". Sexism and rape culture are among the n.1 pronlems of today's society. I know that in France we are veeeeery tolerant to people's private life, but the fact that the president might be a sexist pig who brag about sexual aggressions is not ok. Sexism and rape culture are among the number 1 problems in today's society? Are you high? Or in saudi arabia? It's exaggerations like this that make it hard to take this term seriously. It effects 50% of the population. The majority of women you speak with will tell you they have been sexually assaulted and/or had to deal with unwanted sexual advances for a protracted period of time. That population feels powerless to speak out against sexism or sexual harassment when it happens. It’s a big issue that is pretty widely ignored. Much like racism it is a very hard issue to talk about because the standard response is always “but I’m not sexist, I’m not causing this problem. Why are you talking to me?” I'm going to need a source on the majority of women being sexually assaulted over a protracted period of time. A huge problem with this is you guys never source anything or you source that bogus 1 in 4 study and then post huge bomb statements like that. There are 100% pockets of dudes that what you talk about is real (like young biff and his friends in that story), but the majority of people that get called out for "rape culture" are just skeptics that have become jaded by hearing stories of where these 1 in 4 stats come from, or from women who have ruined some guys lives by regretting a sexual encounter later. It's because of people padding out rape stats with things like being drunk = rape even with consent that you get skeptism when stories come out. When doubt is removed NO ONE defends rapists (see Brock Turner). I don't think it's a bad thing to say "let's wait to hear both sides", and I don't think it's right to say these people are pushing "rape culture". http://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/publications_nsvrc_factsheet_media-packet_statistics-about-sexual-violence_0.pdfThey don’t have a straight up report for all woman across the US, but the number is in the mid 40s for straight women and much higher for bisexual and lesbians. So while I was hasty to say it was the majority, it is a lot of women.
The numbers in the mid 40s are sourced from this survey (citation P): http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/NISVS_SOfindings.pdf
In this survey, on page 10, sexual violence is split up into sexual coercion (non physical), unwanted sexual contact, and non-contact unwanted sexual experiences.
By this definition, I'm not sure how the numbers aren't at 100% for everyone male and female. Look at some of these inclusions:
Sexual coercion: includes being lied to, being promised something untrue, have someone threaten to end the relationship for sex. Reprehensible, but not sexual assault.
Unwanted sexual assault: includes things like getting your ass or dick grabbed in a club. I'm positive this has happened to everybody (although more with attractive women, and it is completely unacceptable).
Non-contact unwanted sexual experiences: includes getting sent nude photos, getting flashed
You can see how these numbers get so over exaggerated by bullshit that it turns people into skeptics. To be clear, all of the things listed above are bad things. Are they sexual violence? Maybe the club stuff but the non-physical stuff 100% no. Anyone who's gotten mooned or flashed by cars of people have been victims of sexual violence according to this survey. Unacceptable.
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On October 14 2016 23:17 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2016 23:09 Antyee wrote:On October 14 2016 22:56 Thieving Magpie wrote:On October 14 2016 22:40 Kickboxer wrote:
The relationship between genders when it comes to sex and courtship (seduction) is an extremely complicated matter, and there is no simple way to address it. I do agree women remain far too vulnerable to actual assault and sexual bullying, and that this is a real issue we need to work on, but the term "rape culture" is simply not the best one, and the people fighting for the cause need to choose another banner in addition to facing some serious issues they have willfully chosen to ignore.
Women simply do prefer assertive powerful men. They do prefer "aggressive" men. It might be deeply illogical and unfortunate, but it is a pragmatic fact of reality. It is the way Homo Sapiens mates, and anyone honest with themselves who's not angered by their own sexual frustration will begrudgingly recognize this.
A vast majority of females (that have not experienced sexual trauma of course) strongly prefer a hint of "sexual aggression", they do respond to "dominance", they do respond to a certain degree of autonomous boldness, and sometimes you simply do have to kiss the girl (or as "dogs" would figuratively put it "grab her by the pussy"), or you will lose her to a more confident man - even though she is not holding up a consent poster. Until the split second the woman actively resists (which is the clear line of real sexual assault as far as I am concerned) the distinction between "alpha" behavior that often brings great real-life success with women, and cancerous behavior that terrorizes them is nearly impossible to draw.
And that, in a nutshell, is why some people are willing to forgive Trump for his "locker room" talk (though he is still a pig because he's clearly crossed this line habitually).
Cat-calling is also a nuanced concept because it is in many ways an instinctive response to the sexual power an attractive woman willingly exerts upon the male subconsciousness. No, this does not mean they "deserve" to be groped let alone assaulted (!), but it is a particular form of violence against men that I feel is never properly addressed.
What I just said perhaps makes some people facepalm and cringe, but your problem then lies with the factual reality of sexual relations between men and women and not with my speculation.
Women rage about the necessity of wearing make-up 24/7 and about being objectified all the time, but most of them nevertheless spend half their money and time specifically on the task of appearing sexually attractive to men in a radius as wide as possible, because that gives them vast amounts of "soft" power over men.
Our culture has been glorifying female sexual liberation for 30 years non-stop, in addition to enforcing highly dubious ideas of "gender fluidity" marshaled by the exact same people using the term rape culture, to a point where most female celebrities (women adored and mimicked by young girls all across the world) are famous for some kind of porn, and many of them, frankly, act like sluts - or more precisely, they act like men. Why don't we ever talk about that? Do you think this contributes to the problem of rape culture or not?
Post-Samantha, in the age of Miley Cyrus and the Kardashians, is it safe to say we have a "whore culture" problem in addition to a "rape culture" problem? Is this a legitimate topic to discuss or am I deplorable? I don't know but if someone is triggered by the obscene (and deliberately obtuse) way I framed this, they should understand that championing beta behavior as a one-stop solution to the issues of violence between genders triggers many people, too, and directly helps politicians like Trump rally the silent majority. 1.) People are attracted to the options around them. If they live in a culture that values rape, they will be attracted to rapey things. Women are not "illogically" attracted to it, its a side effect that rape permeates so much of the culture that often the choice women have is to either fetish it or become celibate. 2.) Women wear makeup because the west is such a misogynistic culture, it is impossible for women to feel value outside of their own bodies. Western culture emphasizes the importance of the female body as a fuck toy to rape that in order for many women engaged in that culture, beautification to maximize the value they are told to have becomes primary. 3.) There is no such thing as a whore problem. Women enjoying sex is a not a whore problem. A whore problem is when you disallow and make illegal for women to earn an income and women are forced to become whores to make ends meet. A woman enjoying sex is, in and of itself, normal. Now if women walked around, grabbing little boys dicks, going to school and and took videos of little boys peeing, broke into peoples houses and fucked men at gun point, then you can talk about women acting too much like men. But just because they like having sex too--that's a fairly stupid thing to bring up. 4.) The reason women are doing the things you observe them doing is because the west glorifies rape. Women, also being part of western culture, can't help but be forced to engage in it as well. That's what the fucking word culture means--its the thing a group of people do. The reason its illogical and seems to serve people's interest other than the woman's is because the west is a misogynistic culture that doesn't give a fuck about the woman's thoughts and ideas. And then teaches the woman to think the same. This is probably the most anti-women thing I read in a very long time. You are saying that women are too weak to have a mind of their own, make decisions for themselves or just do anything not for men. It's not western society but you who think they are only fuck toys. Read it again. Slower, and use a dictionary for the words you don't understand. Because I fail to see how women enjoying things in the culture they are in equates to being weak minded to you. I don't even see how that equates to them being fuck toys being I don't actually talk about anything in those points about them being fuck toys.
'Use a dictionary' - one hell of an arguement lol.
"Women wear makeup because the west is such a misogynistic culture, it is impossible for women to feel value outside of their own bodies."
"Women, also being part of western culture, can't help but be forced to engage in it as well."
As I said, you claim they are helpless.
Moreover, if you now claim they are enjoying it, why is it a bad thing?
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On October 14 2016 22:40 Kickboxer wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The relationship between genders when it comes to sex and courtship (seduction) is an extremely complicated matter, and there is no simple way to address it. I do agree women remain far too vulnerable to actual assault and sexual bullying, and that this is a real issue we need to work on, but the term "rape culture" is simply not the best one, and the people fighting for the cause need to choose another banner in addition to facing some serious issues they have willfully chosen to ignore.
Women simply do prefer assertive powerful men. They do prefer "aggressive" men. It might be deeply illogical and unfortunate, but it is a pragmatic fact of reality. It is the way Homo Sapiens mates, and anyone honest with themselves who's not angered by their own sexual frustration will begrudgingly recognize this.
A vast majority of females (that have not experienced sexual trauma of course) strongly prefer a hint of "sexual aggression", they do respond to "dominance", they do respond to a certain degree of autonomous boldness, and sometimes you simply do have to kiss the girl (or as "dogs" would figuratively put it "grab her by the pussy"), or you will lose her to a more confident man - even though she is not holding up a consent poster. Until the split second the woman actively resists (which is the clear line of real sexual assault as far as I am concerned) the distinction between "alpha" behavior that often brings great real-life success with women, and cancerous behavior that terrorizes them is nearly impossible to draw.
And that, in a nutshell, is why some people are willing to forgive Trump for his "locker room" talk (though he is still a pig because he's clearly crossed this line habitually).
Cat-calling is also a nuanced concept because it is in many ways an instinctive response to the sexual power an attractive woman willingly exerts upon the male subconsciousness. No, this does not mean they "deserve" to be groped let alone assaulted (!), but it is a particular form of violence against men that I feel is never properly addressed.
What I just said perhaps makes some people facepalm and cringe, but your problem then lies with the factual reality of sexual relations between men and women and not with my speculation.
Women rage about the necessity of wearing make-up 24/7 and about being objectified all the time, but most of them nevertheless spend half their money and time specifically on the task of appearing sexually attractive to men in a radius as wide as possible, because that gives them vast amounts of "soft" power over men.
Our culture has been glorifying female sexual liberation for 30 years non-stop, in addition to enforcing highly dubious ideas of "gender fluidity" marshaled by the exact same people using the term rape culture, to a point where most female celebrities (women adored and mimicked by young girls all across the world) are famous for some kind of porn, and many of them, frankly, act like sluts - or more precisely, they act like men. Why don't we ever talk about that? Do you think this contributes to the problem of rape culture or not?
Post-Samantha, in the age of Miley Cyrus and the Kardashians, is it safe to say we have a "whore culture" problem in addition to a "rape culture" problem? Is this a legitimate topic to discuss or am I deplorable? I don't know but if someone is triggered by the obscene (and deliberately obtuse) way I framed this, they should understand that championing beta behavior as a one-stop solution to the issues of violence between genders triggers many people, too, and directly helps politicians like Trump rally the silent majority.
Please, someone tell me that this is an elaborate trolling post mocking the traditional “sexual darwinism” arguments.
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On October 14 2016 22:47 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2016 22:39 Biff The Understudy wrote:On October 14 2016 22:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 14 2016 22:31 Sent. wrote:
Why would you build a missile defense system around China or Russia? I can understand surrounding Iran or North Korea with such systems because they're poor as fuck and can't afford to build thousands of missiles but it doesn't seem logical against great/super/mega powers. If I recall correctly missile defense systems aren't cost effective. I think you misread my comment, but remind us how Russia feels about the "defense system" we're installing over there in your neck of the woods? The US - Russia balance of power holds by the Mutual Annihilation doctrine. If you build an anti missile system around them, suddenly the balance changes drastically: the US can annihilate Russia, but Russia can't annihilate the US. That's a historical doctrine that has existed from the cold war. I don't think the US - Chinese relations are based on any such doctrine. And North Korea, well... But again and again, it's probably a terrible idea and it's not in Clinton platform. What's the deal here exactly? Besides that anyone would know it's a terrible idea before having to be told so (presumably a SoS should be on that list), it's further evidence of her hawkish tendencies. So for people like Plansix who are voting for her with thoughts of their brother not going to war, it's more evidence that it was always a pipe dream. Also, if you think Hillary's platform accurately represents what she intends to accomplish, then I also have a bridge to sell you.
Oooooh I see. Hillary is bad because she suggested to make a defense system against NK once three years ago.
- So on the one hand, you use one sentence said three years ago to say that she hawkish.
- On the other one you assume that nothing in her platform or what she says has any value because she is an evil hypocritical liar.
That's a bit paradoxical. My question is, since you have decided that her word was worth 0, why do you try to convince us with one sentence of her 3 years ago. Maybe she was being hypocritical and was lying. She never intended to build a defense system in fact she is a naive stupid liberal dove. See, I can do it the other way round.
I get it, you really, really, really hate her. But then there is not much to discuss. She says something good you dismiss it, she says something bad (three years ago, once) it's a further proof she is evil.
Not great material for a good discussion, especially with people who are not as enraged against her as you are.
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On October 14 2016 23:17 Antyee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2016 23:16 Stratos_speAr wrote:On October 14 2016 23:09 Antyee wrote:On October 14 2016 22:56 Thieving Magpie wrote:On October 14 2016 22:40 Kickboxer wrote:
The relationship between genders when it comes to sex and courtship (seduction) is an extremely complicated matter, and there is no simple way to address it. I do agree women remain far too vulnerable to actual assault and sexual bullying, and that this is a real issue we need to work on, but the term "rape culture" is simply not the best one, and the people fighting for the cause need to choose another banner in addition to facing some serious issues they have willfully chosen to ignore.
Women simply do prefer assertive powerful men. They do prefer "aggressive" men. It might be deeply illogical and unfortunate, but it is a pragmatic fact of reality. It is the way Homo Sapiens mates, and anyone honest with themselves who's not angered by their own sexual frustration will begrudgingly recognize this.
A vast majority of females (that have not experienced sexual trauma of course) strongly prefer a hint of "sexual aggression", they do respond to "dominance", they do respond to a certain degree of autonomous boldness, and sometimes you simply do have to kiss the girl (or as "dogs" would figuratively put it "grab her by the pussy"), or you will lose her to a more confident man - even though she is not holding up a consent poster. Until the split second the woman actively resists (which is the clear line of real sexual assault as far as I am concerned) the distinction between "alpha" behavior that often brings great real-life success with women, and cancerous behavior that terrorizes them is nearly impossible to draw.
And that, in a nutshell, is why some people are willing to forgive Trump for his "locker room" talk (though he is still a pig because he's clearly crossed this line habitually).
Cat-calling is also a nuanced concept because it is in many ways an instinctive response to the sexual power an attractive woman willingly exerts upon the male subconsciousness. No, this does not mean they "deserve" to be groped let alone assaulted (!), but it is a particular form of violence against men that I feel is never properly addressed.
What I just said perhaps makes some people facepalm and cringe, but your problem then lies with the factual reality of sexual relations between men and women and not with my speculation.
Women rage about the necessity of wearing make-up 24/7 and about being objectified all the time, but most of them nevertheless spend half their money and time specifically on the task of appearing sexually attractive to men in a radius as wide as possible, because that gives them vast amounts of "soft" power over men.
Our culture has been glorifying female sexual liberation for 30 years non-stop, in addition to enforcing highly dubious ideas of "gender fluidity" marshaled by the exact same people using the term rape culture, to a point where most female celebrities (women adored and mimicked by young girls all across the world) are famous for some kind of porn, and many of them, frankly, act like sluts - or more precisely, they act like men. Why don't we ever talk about that? Do you think this contributes to the problem of rape culture or not?
Post-Samantha, in the age of Miley Cyrus and the Kardashians, is it safe to say we have a "whore culture" problem in addition to a "rape culture" problem? Is this a legitimate topic to discuss or am I deplorable? I don't know but if someone is triggered by the obscene (and deliberately obtuse) way I framed this, they should understand that championing beta behavior as a one-stop solution to the issues of violence between genders triggers many people, too, and directly helps politicians like Trump rally the silent majority. 1.) People are attracted to the options around them. If they live in a culture that values rape, they will be attracted to rapey things. Women are not "illogically" attracted to it, its a side effect that rape permeates so much of the culture that often the choice women have is to either fetish it or become celibate. 2.) Women wear makeup because the west is such a misogynistic culture, it is impossible for women to feel value outside of their own bodies. Western culture emphasizes the importance of the female body as a fuck toy to rape that in order for many women engaged in that culture, beautification to maximize the value they are told to have becomes primary. 3.) There is no such thing as a whore problem. Women enjoying sex is a not a whore problem. A whore problem is when you disallow and make illegal for women to earn an income and women are forced to become whores to make ends meet. A woman enjoying sex is, in and of itself, normal. Now if women walked around, grabbing little boys dicks, going to school and and took videos of little boys peeing, broke into peoples houses and fucked men at gun point, then you can talk about women acting too much like men. But just because they like having sex too--that's a fairly stupid thing to bring up. 4.) The reason women are doing the things you observe them doing is because the west glorifies rape. Women, also being part of western culture, can't help but be forced to engage in it as well. That's what the fucking word culture means--its the thing a group of people do. The reason its illogical and seems to serve people's interest other than the woman's is because the west is a misogynistic culture that doesn't give a fuck about the woman's thoughts and ideas. And then teaches the woman to think the same. This is probably the most anti-women thing I read in a very long time. You are saying that women are too weak to have a mind of their own, make decisions for themselves or just do anything not for men. It's not western society but you who think they are only fuck toys. This line of argument is so lazy that you should be ashamed of yourself. I can't be at fault for him saying that.
No one is saying women are weak when they make that point. That counter-argument is a lazy way to try to deflect the problem of sexism and say, "ah hah! You're actually sexist!".
What it shows is that you aren't understanding what culture and population-level effects entail. People's general perceptions are shaped by how they are raised. When a woman is raised to understand that she can be treated this way and that this is how she is valued, it doesn't mean that she is weak. It means that our culture is conditioning young girls to think this way by teaching them that the world works this way. The same thing happens to men when we condition young boys to think that crying or doing art or many other things are "girly" and "not many" and therefore embarrassing.
None of this means that "individual X is weak". If you think that, you have a gross misunderstanding of psychology and sociology. Everyone (all sexes, all races) is effected by cultural norms because these are what we are taught when we are little kids. It's not like random woman Jane is walking down the street and then suddenly succumbs to culture's whims and is now brainwashed by our "culture" into thinking that she is valued only as an object. These things were taught to her as a child because she was exposed to them constantly over her formative years, just as men were taught their harmful gender norms in the same way.
Culture describes and acts on a population of people. Any individual person can be an exception due to particular circumstances, but what it does is shape the public's general acceptance of a particular topic and therefore 1) what the average person perceives as they are a child and are taught things, and 2) the public's reaction to certain topics.
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On October 14 2016 22:56 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2016 22:40 Kickboxer wrote:
The relationship between genders when it comes to sex and courtship (seduction) is an extremely complicated matter, and there is no simple way to address it. I do agree women remain far too vulnerable to actual assault and sexual bullying, and that this is a real issue we need to work on, but the term "rape culture" is simply not the best one, and the people fighting for the cause need to choose another banner in addition to facing some serious issues they have willfully chosen to ignore.
Women simply do prefer assertive powerful men. They do prefer "aggressive" men. It might be deeply illogical and unfortunate, but it is a pragmatic fact of reality. It is the way Homo Sapiens mates, and anyone honest with themselves who's not angered by their own sexual frustration will begrudgingly recognize this.
A vast majority of females (that have not experienced sexual trauma of course) strongly prefer a hint of "sexual aggression", they do respond to "dominance", they do respond to a certain degree of autonomous boldness, and sometimes you simply do have to kiss the girl (or as "dogs" would figuratively put it "grab her by the pussy"), or you will lose her to a more confident man - even though she is not holding up a consent poster. Until the split second the woman actively resists (which is the clear line of real sexual assault as far as I am concerned) the distinction between "alpha" behavior that often brings great real-life success with women, and cancerous behavior that terrorizes them is nearly impossible to draw.
And that, in a nutshell, is why some people are willing to forgive Trump for his "locker room" talk (though he is still a pig because he's clearly crossed this line habitually).
Cat-calling is also a nuanced concept because it is in many ways an instinctive response to the sexual power an attractive woman willingly exerts upon the male subconsciousness. No, this does not mean they "deserve" to be groped let alone assaulted (!), but it is a particular form of violence against men that I feel is never properly addressed.
What I just said perhaps makes some people facepalm and cringe, but your problem then lies with the factual reality of sexual relations between men and women and not with my speculation.
Women rage about the necessity of wearing make-up 24/7 and about being objectified all the time, but most of them nevertheless spend half their money and time specifically on the task of appearing sexually attractive to men in a radius as wide as possible, because that gives them vast amounts of "soft" power over men.
Our culture has been glorifying female sexual liberation for 30 years non-stop, in addition to enforcing highly dubious ideas of "gender fluidity" marshaled by the exact same people using the term rape culture, to a point where most female celebrities (women adored and mimicked by young girls all across the world) are famous for some kind of porn, and many of them, frankly, act like sluts - or more precisely, they act like men. Why don't we ever talk about that? Do you think this contributes to the problem of rape culture or not?
Post-Samantha, in the age of Miley Cyrus and the Kardashians, is it safe to say we have a "whore culture" problem in addition to a "rape culture" problem? Is this a legitimate topic to discuss or am I deplorable? I don't know but if someone is triggered by the obscene (and deliberately obtuse) way I framed this, they should understand that championing beta behavior as a one-stop solution to the issues of violence between genders triggers many people, too, and directly helps politicians like Trump rally the silent majority. 1.) People are attracted to the options around them. If they live in a culture that values rape, they will be attracted to rapey things. Women are not "illogically" attracted to it, its a side effect that rape permeates so much of the culture that often the choice women have is to either fetish it or become celibate. 2.) Women wear makeup because the west is such a misogynistic culture, it is impossible for women to feel value outside of their own bodies. Western culture emphasizes the importance of the female body as a fuck toy to rape that in order for many women engaged in that culture, beautification to maximize the value they are told to have becomes primary. 3.) There is no such thing as a whore problem. Women enjoying sex is a not a whore problem. A whore problem is when you disallow and make illegal for women to earn an income and women are forced to become whores to make ends meet. A woman enjoying sex is, in and of itself, normal. Now if women walked around, grabbing little boys dicks, going to school and and took videos of little boys peeing, broke into peoples houses and fucked men at gun point, then you can talk about women acting too much like men. But just because they like having sex too--that's a fairly stupid thing to bring up. 4.) The reason women are doing the things you observe them doing is because the west glorifies rape. Women, also being part of western culture, can't help but be forced to engage in it as well. That's what the fucking word culture means--its the thing a group of people do. The reason its illogical and seems to serve people's interest other than the woman's is because the west is a misogynistic culture that doesn't give a fuck about the woman's thoughts and ideas. And then teaches the woman to think the same.
Rightly calls attention to issues "rape culture" advocates wish to ignore, response ignores the issues. Asked and answered. Rape culture is the reason why women are attracted to assertive/bold/dominant men? The west glorifies rape? Any proof that rape culture advocates ignore other contributing problematic aspects of culture ... doesn't exist, no such thing? This is a very serious topic, and until rape culture advocates step up to the plate, they'll be laughed at and empower true pigs like Trump and Bill Clinton. You'd almost be better off explaining yourself if your answers were 1) because rape culture 2) because misogyny 3) nope, 100% rape culture's fault 4) because rape culture.
And not recognizing that your side has deep, abiding problems will just ensure more women will be raped and less people are rallied to your cause.
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On October 14 2016 23:17 Little-Chimp wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2016 22:33 Plansix wrote:On October 14 2016 22:19 Little-Chimp wrote:On October 14 2016 21:59 Plansix wrote:On October 14 2016 21:54 Little-Chimp wrote:On October 14 2016 17:13 Biff The Understudy wrote:On October 14 2016 16:56 WhiteDog wrote:On October 14 2016 14:08 JW_DTLA wrote:On October 14 2016 13:17 Nyxisto wrote:
Haven't followed the thread much yesterday so I've got no idea if the Michelle speech has been posted but it was pretty great, best one of the election imo I just watched it after work. I teared up. Michelle: + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ45VLgbe_E I am now watching the DJT Florida speech in full. DJT literally can't say a true thing. He has gone completely Assange/Wikileaks. DJT doesn't even bother to offer counter evidence to all the accusers. All he has is "false smears" and "lies". He talks and talks about everyone in the world is lying about him, but he won't sue anyone. Can't his goons see this? + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3hJjWTLRB0 "This is so bad, this is so sad, Trump is obscene and brag about gropping women. He is so bad. Moral, moral, moral, moral, moral." I'm not defending Trump at all, especially if he actually did what he was bragging about. But the fact is that a campaign that has nothing to say aside than talking about the moral of its candidates is a failed campaign. It's the degree 0 of politics. And this is somewhat described as a great speech. It's not just "moral". Sexism and rape culture are among the n.1 pronlems of today's society. I know that in France we are veeeeery tolerant to people's private life, but the fact that the president might be a sexist pig who brag about sexual aggressions is not ok. Sexism and rape culture are among the number 1 problems in today's society? Are you high? Or in saudi arabia? It's exaggerations like this that make it hard to take this term seriously. It effects 50% of the population. The majority of women you speak with will tell you they have been sexually assaulted and/or had to deal with unwanted sexual advances for a protracted period of time. That population feels powerless to speak out against sexism or sexual harassment when it happens. It’s a big issue that is pretty widely ignored. Much like racism it is a very hard issue to talk about because the standard response is always “but I’m not sexist, I’m not causing this problem. Why are you talking to me?” I'm going to need a source on the majority of women being sexually assaulted over a protracted period of time. A huge problem with this is you guys never source anything or you source that bogus 1 in 4 study and then post huge bomb statements like that. There are 100% pockets of dudes that what you talk about is real (like young biff and his friends in that story), but the majority of people that get called out for "rape culture" are just skeptics that have become jaded by hearing stories of where these 1 in 4 stats come from, or from women who have ruined some guys lives by regretting a sexual encounter later. It's because of people padding out rape stats with things like being drunk = rape even with consent that you get skeptism when stories come out. When doubt is removed NO ONE defends rapists (see Brock Turner). I don't think it's a bad thing to say "let's wait to hear both sides", and I don't think it's right to say these people are pushing "rape culture". http://www.nsvrc.org/sites/default/files/publications_nsvrc_factsheet_media-packet_statistics-about-sexual-violence_0.pdfThey don’t have a straight up report for all woman across the US, but the number is in the mid 40s for straight women and much higher for bisexual and lesbians. So while I was hasty to say it was the majority, it is a lot of women. The numbers in the mid 40s are sourced from this survey (citation P): http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePrevention/pdf/NISVS_SOfindings.pdfIn this survey, on page 10, sexual violence is split up into sexual coercion (non physical), unwanted sexual contact, and non-contact unwanted sexual experiences. By this definition, I'm not sure how the numbers aren't at 100% for everyone male and female. Look at some of these inclusions: Sexual coercion: includes being lied to, being promised something untrue, have someone threaten to end the relationship for sex. Reprehensible, but not sexual assault. Unwanted sexual assault: includes things like getting your ass or dick grabbed in a club. I'm positive this has happened to everybody (although more with attractive women, and it is completely unacceptable). Non-contact unwanted sexual experiences: includes getting sent nude photos, getting flashed You can see how these numbers get so over exaggerated by bullshit that it turns people into skeptics. To be clear, all of the things listed above are bad things. Are they sexual violence? Maybe the club stuff but the non-physical stuff 100% no. Anyone who's gotten mooned or flashed by cars of people have been victims of sexual violence according to this survey. Unacceptable.
The numbers are large because the people putting them together are trying to make the point that women worry about unwanted sexual advances at all times. That it invades every aspect of their life. That even if they go dancing with female friends, they cannot avoid unwanted sexual contact. And that is the reason why they go dancing in groups. That the fear is constant and people disregard it as a normal part of life.
It is the main reason why Trump’s comments about being able to do whatever he wants to women really hit home and gained traction.
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Lord, forgive me for what I have done to this thread by bringing up rape culture and sexism.
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On October 14 2016 23:20 Antyee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2016 23:17 Thieving Magpie wrote:On October 14 2016 23:09 Antyee wrote:On October 14 2016 22:56 Thieving Magpie wrote:On October 14 2016 22:40 Kickboxer wrote:
The relationship between genders when it comes to sex and courtship (seduction) is an extremely complicated matter, and there is no simple way to address it. I do agree women remain far too vulnerable to actual assault and sexual bullying, and that this is a real issue we need to work on, but the term "rape culture" is simply not the best one, and the people fighting for the cause need to choose another banner in addition to facing some serious issues they have willfully chosen to ignore.
Women simply do prefer assertive powerful men. They do prefer "aggressive" men. It might be deeply illogical and unfortunate, but it is a pragmatic fact of reality. It is the way Homo Sapiens mates, and anyone honest with themselves who's not angered by their own sexual frustration will begrudgingly recognize this.
A vast majority of females (that have not experienced sexual trauma of course) strongly prefer a hint of "sexual aggression", they do respond to "dominance", they do respond to a certain degree of autonomous boldness, and sometimes you simply do have to kiss the girl (or as "dogs" would figuratively put it "grab her by the pussy"), or you will lose her to a more confident man - even though she is not holding up a consent poster. Until the split second the woman actively resists (which is the clear line of real sexual assault as far as I am concerned) the distinction between "alpha" behavior that often brings great real-life success with women, and cancerous behavior that terrorizes them is nearly impossible to draw.
And that, in a nutshell, is why some people are willing to forgive Trump for his "locker room" talk (though he is still a pig because he's clearly crossed this line habitually).
Cat-calling is also a nuanced concept because it is in many ways an instinctive response to the sexual power an attractive woman willingly exerts upon the male subconsciousness. No, this does not mean they "deserve" to be groped let alone assaulted (!), but it is a particular form of violence against men that I feel is never properly addressed.
What I just said perhaps makes some people facepalm and cringe, but your problem then lies with the factual reality of sexual relations between men and women and not with my speculation.
Women rage about the necessity of wearing make-up 24/7 and about being objectified all the time, but most of them nevertheless spend half their money and time specifically on the task of appearing sexually attractive to men in a radius as wide as possible, because that gives them vast amounts of "soft" power over men.
Our culture has been glorifying female sexual liberation for 30 years non-stop, in addition to enforcing highly dubious ideas of "gender fluidity" marshaled by the exact same people using the term rape culture, to a point where most female celebrities (women adored and mimicked by young girls all across the world) are famous for some kind of porn, and many of them, frankly, act like sluts - or more precisely, they act like men. Why don't we ever talk about that? Do you think this contributes to the problem of rape culture or not?
Post-Samantha, in the age of Miley Cyrus and the Kardashians, is it safe to say we have a "whore culture" problem in addition to a "rape culture" problem? Is this a legitimate topic to discuss or am I deplorable? I don't know but if someone is triggered by the obscene (and deliberately obtuse) way I framed this, they should understand that championing beta behavior as a one-stop solution to the issues of violence between genders triggers many people, too, and directly helps politicians like Trump rally the silent majority. 1.) People are attracted to the options around them. If they live in a culture that values rape, they will be attracted to rapey things. Women are not "illogically" attracted to it, its a side effect that rape permeates so much of the culture that often the choice women have is to either fetish it or become celibate. 2.) Women wear makeup because the west is such a misogynistic culture, it is impossible for women to feel value outside of their own bodies. Western culture emphasizes the importance of the female body as a fuck toy to rape that in order for many women engaged in that culture, beautification to maximize the value they are told to have becomes primary. 3.) There is no such thing as a whore problem. Women enjoying sex is a not a whore problem. A whore problem is when you disallow and make illegal for women to earn an income and women are forced to become whores to make ends meet. A woman enjoying sex is, in and of itself, normal. Now if women walked around, grabbing little boys dicks, going to school and and took videos of little boys peeing, broke into peoples houses and fucked men at gun point, then you can talk about women acting too much like men. But just because they like having sex too--that's a fairly stupid thing to bring up. 4.) The reason women are doing the things you observe them doing is because the west glorifies rape. Women, also being part of western culture, can't help but be forced to engage in it as well. That's what the fucking word culture means--its the thing a group of people do. The reason its illogical and seems to serve people's interest other than the woman's is because the west is a misogynistic culture that doesn't give a fuck about the woman's thoughts and ideas. And then teaches the woman to think the same. This is probably the most anti-women thing I read in a very long time. You are saying that women are too weak to have a mind of their own, make decisions for themselves or just do anything not for men. It's not western society but you who think they are only fuck toys. Read it again. Slower, and use a dictionary for the words you don't understand. Because I fail to see how women enjoying things in the culture they are in equates to being weak minded to you. I don't even see how that equates to them being fuck toys being I don't actually talk about anything in those points about them being fuck toys. 'Use a dictionary' - one hell of an arguement lol. "Women wear makeup because the west is such a misogynistic culture, it is impossible for women to feel value outside of their own bodies." "Women, also being part of western culture, can't help but be forced to engage in it as well." As I said, you claim they are helpless. Moreover, if you now claim they are enjoying it, why is it a bad thing?
Seriously, a dictionary, use it. Look up culture. See what it means. Because I don't think you understand words.
Lets use a different example since you get very emotional and defensive with rape culture. Lets talk Movie Star Culture.
There are good looking movie stars (citation needed), that people desire (citation needed), because they are a big part of movie star culture. People talk about movie stars (citation needed), admire them (citation needed), lust after them (citation needed), and they do this because a lot of people talk about them (citation needed).
Since we are in a movie star culture, we can't help but enjoy talking about, fantasizing, and relating things to movies, movie stars, etc... Since it is cultural, we naturally tend to bring it up as a topic of conversation, thoughts, ideas, etc...
Its the same with our idea of placing value in the looks of women. As a culture, we highly value good looking women. As such, just like people can't help talking about the Kardashians (you even know who I am talking about just saying Kardashian) women can't help but embody that cultural ideal. Much like it isn't weak to enjoy watching a Star Wars movie, it isn't weak to enjoy the things the culture you are in emphasizes as important.
Now, go read a dictionary, and learn words. Once you know what words mean, you can better understand what is being talked about.
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On October 14 2016 23:22 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2016 22:47 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 14 2016 22:39 Biff The Understudy wrote:On October 14 2016 22:35 GreenHorizons wrote:On October 14 2016 22:31 Sent. wrote:
Why would you build a missile defense system around China or Russia? I can understand surrounding Iran or North Korea with such systems because they're poor as fuck and can't afford to build thousands of missiles but it doesn't seem logical against great/super/mega powers. If I recall correctly missile defense systems aren't cost effective. I think you misread my comment, but remind us how Russia feels about the "defense system" we're installing over there in your neck of the woods? The US - Russia balance of power holds by the Mutual Annihilation doctrine. If you build an anti missile system around them, suddenly the balance changes drastically: the US can annihilate Russia, but Russia can't annihilate the US. That's a historical doctrine that has existed from the cold war. I don't think the US - Chinese relations are based on any such doctrine. And North Korea, well... But again and again, it's probably a terrible idea and it's not in Clinton platform. What's the deal here exactly? Besides that anyone would know it's a terrible idea before having to be told so (presumably a SoS should be on that list), it's further evidence of her hawkish tendencies. So for people like Plansix who are voting for her with thoughts of their brother not going to war, it's more evidence that it was always a pipe dream. Also, if you think Hillary's platform accurately represents what she intends to accomplish, then I also have a bridge to sell you. Oooooh I see. Hillary is bad because she suggested to make a defense system against NK once three years ago. - So on the one hand, you use one sentence said three years ago to say that she hawkish. - On the other one you assume that nothing in her platform or what she says has any value because she is an evil hypocritical liar. That's a bit paradoxical. My question is, since you have decided that her word was worth 0, why do you try to convince us with one sentence of her 3 years ago. Maybe she was being hypocritical and was lying. She never intended to build a defense system in fact she is a naive stupid liberal dove. See, I can do it the other way round. I get it, you really, really, really hate her. But then there is not much to discuss. She says something good you dismiss it, she says something bad (three years ago, once) it's a further proof she is evil. Not great material for a good discussion, especially with people who are not as enraged against her as you are.
Your are being disingenuous or intentionally dense by suggesting I'm using a single sentence from 3 years ago.
You are again being disingenuous or intentionally dense by not seeing the obvious difference between what she says in public versus what is said in private.
Finally you keep trying to say I "hate" her or think she's "evil" and I've told you several times now that I don't. Plenty of people who share my other opinions do, but you can't dismiss my disagreements as just being rage fueled nothings, because you don't see all of the lies as problematic.
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This certainly hasn't felt like a productive line of discussion. But it takes a lot of work to use productive discussion techniques, so it's understandable; I often don't feel up to using them myself.
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On October 14 2016 23:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2016 23:20 Antyee wrote:On October 14 2016 23:17 Thieving Magpie wrote:On October 14 2016 23:09 Antyee wrote:On October 14 2016 22:56 Thieving Magpie wrote:On October 14 2016 22:40 Kickboxer wrote:
The relationship between genders when it comes to sex and courtship (seduction) is an extremely complicated matter, and there is no simple way to address it. I do agree women remain far too vulnerable to actual assault and sexual bullying, and that this is a real issue we need to work on, but the term "rape culture" is simply not the best one, and the people fighting for the cause need to choose another banner in addition to facing some serious issues they have willfully chosen to ignore.
Women simply do prefer assertive powerful men. They do prefer "aggressive" men. It might be deeply illogical and unfortunate, but it is a pragmatic fact of reality. It is the way Homo Sapiens mates, and anyone honest with themselves who's not angered by their own sexual frustration will begrudgingly recognize this.
A vast majority of females (that have not experienced sexual trauma of course) strongly prefer a hint of "sexual aggression", they do respond to "dominance", they do respond to a certain degree of autonomous boldness, and sometimes you simply do have to kiss the girl (or as "dogs" would figuratively put it "grab her by the pussy"), or you will lose her to a more confident man - even though she is not holding up a consent poster. Until the split second the woman actively resists (which is the clear line of real sexual assault as far as I am concerned) the distinction between "alpha" behavior that often brings great real-life success with women, and cancerous behavior that terrorizes them is nearly impossible to draw.
And that, in a nutshell, is why some people are willing to forgive Trump for his "locker room" talk (though he is still a pig because he's clearly crossed this line habitually).
Cat-calling is also a nuanced concept because it is in many ways an instinctive response to the sexual power an attractive woman willingly exerts upon the male subconsciousness. No, this does not mean they "deserve" to be groped let alone assaulted (!), but it is a particular form of violence against men that I feel is never properly addressed.
What I just said perhaps makes some people facepalm and cringe, but your problem then lies with the factual reality of sexual relations between men and women and not with my speculation.
Women rage about the necessity of wearing make-up 24/7 and about being objectified all the time, but most of them nevertheless spend half their money and time specifically on the task of appearing sexually attractive to men in a radius as wide as possible, because that gives them vast amounts of "soft" power over men.
Our culture has been glorifying female sexual liberation for 30 years non-stop, in addition to enforcing highly dubious ideas of "gender fluidity" marshaled by the exact same people using the term rape culture, to a point where most female celebrities (women adored and mimicked by young girls all across the world) are famous for some kind of porn, and many of them, frankly, act like sluts - or more precisely, they act like men. Why don't we ever talk about that? Do you think this contributes to the problem of rape culture or not?
Post-Samantha, in the age of Miley Cyrus and the Kardashians, is it safe to say we have a "whore culture" problem in addition to a "rape culture" problem? Is this a legitimate topic to discuss or am I deplorable? I don't know but if someone is triggered by the obscene (and deliberately obtuse) way I framed this, they should understand that championing beta behavior as a one-stop solution to the issues of violence between genders triggers many people, too, and directly helps politicians like Trump rally the silent majority. 1.) People are attracted to the options around them. If they live in a culture that values rape, they will be attracted to rapey things. Women are not "illogically" attracted to it, its a side effect that rape permeates so much of the culture that often the choice women have is to either fetish it or become celibate. 2.) Women wear makeup because the west is such a misogynistic culture, it is impossible for women to feel value outside of their own bodies. Western culture emphasizes the importance of the female body as a fuck toy to rape that in order for many women engaged in that culture, beautification to maximize the value they are told to have becomes primary. 3.) There is no such thing as a whore problem. Women enjoying sex is a not a whore problem. A whore problem is when you disallow and make illegal for women to earn an income and women are forced to become whores to make ends meet. A woman enjoying sex is, in and of itself, normal. Now if women walked around, grabbing little boys dicks, going to school and and took videos of little boys peeing, broke into peoples houses and fucked men at gun point, then you can talk about women acting too much like men. But just because they like having sex too--that's a fairly stupid thing to bring up. 4.) The reason women are doing the things you observe them doing is because the west glorifies rape. Women, also being part of western culture, can't help but be forced to engage in it as well. That's what the fucking word culture means--its the thing a group of people do. The reason its illogical and seems to serve people's interest other than the woman's is because the west is a misogynistic culture that doesn't give a fuck about the woman's thoughts and ideas. And then teaches the woman to think the same. This is probably the most anti-women thing I read in a very long time. You are saying that women are too weak to have a mind of their own, make decisions for themselves or just do anything not for men. It's not western society but you who think they are only fuck toys. Read it again. Slower, and use a dictionary for the words you don't understand. Because I fail to see how women enjoying things in the culture they are in equates to being weak minded to you. I don't even see how that equates to them being fuck toys being I don't actually talk about anything in those points about them being fuck toys. 'Use a dictionary' - one hell of an arguement lol. "Women wear makeup because the west is such a misogynistic culture, it is impossible for women to feel value outside of their own bodies." "Women, also being part of western culture, can't help but be forced to engage in it as well." As I said, you claim they are helpless. Moreover, if you now claim they are enjoying it, why is it a bad thing? Seriously, a dictionary, use it. Look up culture. See what it means. Because I don't think you understand words. Lets use a different example since you get very emotional and defensive with rape culture. Lets talk Movie Star Culture. There are good looking movie stars (citation needed), that people desire (citation needed), because they are a big part of movie star culture. People talk about movie stars (citation needed), admire them (citation needed), lust after them (citation needed), and they do this because a lot of people talk about them (citation needed). Since we are in a movie star culture, we can't help but enjoy talking about, fantasizing, and relating things to movies, movie stars, etc... Since it is cultural, we naturally tend to bring it up as a topic of conversation, thoughts, ideas, etc... Its the same with our idea of placing value in the looks of women. As a culture, we highly value good looking women. As such, just like people can't help talking about the Kardashians (you even know who I am talking about just saying Kardashian) women can't help but embody that cultural ideal. Much like it isn't weak to enjoy watching a Star Wars movie, it isn't weak to enjoy the things the culture you are in emphasizes as important. Now, go read a dictionary, and learn words. Once you know what words mean, you can better understand what is being talked about.
I won't argue with someone whose only arguement is 'read a dictionary'.
EDIT: dumbs happened.
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On October 14 2016 23:24 Biff The Understudy wrote:
Lord, forgive me for what I have done to this thread by bringing up rape culture and sexism.
Shouldve known it was a waste of time. People who dont think its a problem at this point arent going to be convinced otherwise.
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On October 14 2016 23:23 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2016 22:56 Thieving Magpie wrote:On October 14 2016 22:40 Kickboxer wrote:
The relationship between genders when it comes to sex and courtship (seduction) is an extremely complicated matter, and there is no simple way to address it. I do agree women remain far too vulnerable to actual assault and sexual bullying, and that this is a real issue we need to work on, but the term "rape culture" is simply not the best one, and the people fighting for the cause need to choose another banner in addition to facing some serious issues they have willfully chosen to ignore.
Women simply do prefer assertive powerful men. They do prefer "aggressive" men. It might be deeply illogical and unfortunate, but it is a pragmatic fact of reality. It is the way Homo Sapiens mates, and anyone honest with themselves who's not angered by their own sexual frustration will begrudgingly recognize this.
A vast majority of females (that have not experienced sexual trauma of course) strongly prefer a hint of "sexual aggression", they do respond to "dominance", they do respond to a certain degree of autonomous boldness, and sometimes you simply do have to kiss the girl (or as "dogs" would figuratively put it "grab her by the pussy"), or you will lose her to a more confident man - even though she is not holding up a consent poster. Until the split second the woman actively resists (which is the clear line of real sexual assault as far as I am concerned) the distinction between "alpha" behavior that often brings great real-life success with women, and cancerous behavior that terrorizes them is nearly impossible to draw.
And that, in a nutshell, is why some people are willing to forgive Trump for his "locker room" talk (though he is still a pig because he's clearly crossed this line habitually).
Cat-calling is also a nuanced concept because it is in many ways an instinctive response to the sexual power an attractive woman willingly exerts upon the male subconsciousness. No, this does not mean they "deserve" to be groped let alone assaulted (!), but it is a particular form of violence against men that I feel is never properly addressed.
What I just said perhaps makes some people facepalm and cringe, but your problem then lies with the factual reality of sexual relations between men and women and not with my speculation.
Women rage about the necessity of wearing make-up 24/7 and about being objectified all the time, but most of them nevertheless spend half their money and time specifically on the task of appearing sexually attractive to men in a radius as wide as possible, because that gives them vast amounts of "soft" power over men.
Our culture has been glorifying female sexual liberation for 30 years non-stop, in addition to enforcing highly dubious ideas of "gender fluidity" marshaled by the exact same people using the term rape culture, to a point where most female celebrities (women adored and mimicked by young girls all across the world) are famous for some kind of porn, and many of them, frankly, act like sluts - or more precisely, they act like men. Why don't we ever talk about that? Do you think this contributes to the problem of rape culture or not?
Post-Samantha, in the age of Miley Cyrus and the Kardashians, is it safe to say we have a "whore culture" problem in addition to a "rape culture" problem? Is this a legitimate topic to discuss or am I deplorable? I don't know but if someone is triggered by the obscene (and deliberately obtuse) way I framed this, they should understand that championing beta behavior as a one-stop solution to the issues of violence between genders triggers many people, too, and directly helps politicians like Trump rally the silent majority. 1.) People are attracted to the options around them. If they live in a culture that values rape, they will be attracted to rapey things. Women are not "illogically" attracted to it, its a side effect that rape permeates so much of the culture that often the choice women have is to either fetish it or become celibate. 2.) Women wear makeup because the west is such a misogynistic culture, it is impossible for women to feel value outside of their own bodies. Western culture emphasizes the importance of the female body as a fuck toy to rape that in order for many women engaged in that culture, beautification to maximize the value they are told to have becomes primary. 3.) There is no such thing as a whore problem. Women enjoying sex is a not a whore problem. A whore problem is when you disallow and make illegal for women to earn an income and women are forced to become whores to make ends meet. A woman enjoying sex is, in and of itself, normal. Now if women walked around, grabbing little boys dicks, going to school and and took videos of little boys peeing, broke into peoples houses and fucked men at gun point, then you can talk about women acting too much like men. But just because they like having sex too--that's a fairly stupid thing to bring up. 4.) The reason women are doing the things you observe them doing is because the west glorifies rape. Women, also being part of western culture, can't help but be forced to engage in it as well. That's what the fucking word culture means--its the thing a group of people do. The reason its illogical and seems to serve people's interest other than the woman's is because the west is a misogynistic culture that doesn't give a fuck about the woman's thoughts and ideas. And then teaches the woman to think the same. Rightly calls attention to issues "rape culture" advocates wish to ignore, response ignores the issues. Asked and answered. Rape culture is the reason why women are attracted to assertive/bold/dominant men? The west glorifies rape? Any proof that rape culture advocates ignore other contributing problematic aspects of culture ... doesn't exist, no such thing? This is a very serious topic, and until rape culture advocates step up to the plate, they'll be laughed at and empower true pigs like Trump and Bill Clinton. You'd almost be better off explaining yourself if your answers were 1) because rape culture 2) because misogyny 3) nope, 100% rape culture's fault 4) because rape culture. And not recognizing that your side has deep, abiding problems will just ensure more women will be raped and less people are rallied to your cause.
I have absolute no idea what points your sentences are answering or assessing. I can barely understand how one sentence moves to the other.
What was I ignoring? What did you answer when you said "Asked and answered"? You then ask 3 questions clarifying definitions or axioms of observation followed by saying this is a serious topic that is ignored? You then list out that when I point out how rape culture affects people in that culture, you then conclude that I am not recognizing deep problems--this was repeated three times without any actual pointing out at what is being ignored.
(again, what things got ignored in my response to a post you did not make?)
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On October 14 2016 23:30 Antyee wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2016 23:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:On October 14 2016 23:20 Antyee wrote:On October 14 2016 23:17 Thieving Magpie wrote:On October 14 2016 23:09 Antyee wrote:On October 14 2016 22:56 Thieving Magpie wrote:On October 14 2016 22:40 Kickboxer wrote:
The relationship between genders when it comes to sex and courtship (seduction) is an extremely complicated matter, and there is no simple way to address it. I do agree women remain far too vulnerable to actual assault and sexual bullying, and that this is a real issue we need to work on, but the term "rape culture" is simply not the best one, and the people fighting for the cause need to choose another banner in addition to facing some serious issues they have willfully chosen to ignore.
Women simply do prefer assertive powerful men. They do prefer "aggressive" men. It might be deeply illogical and unfortunate, but it is a pragmatic fact of reality. It is the way Homo Sapiens mates, and anyone honest with themselves who's not angered by their own sexual frustration will begrudgingly recognize this.
A vast majority of females (that have not experienced sexual trauma of course) strongly prefer a hint of "sexual aggression", they do respond to "dominance", they do respond to a certain degree of autonomous boldness, and sometimes you simply do have to kiss the girl (or as "dogs" would figuratively put it "grab her by the pussy"), or you will lose her to a more confident man - even though she is not holding up a consent poster. Until the split second the woman actively resists (which is the clear line of real sexual assault as far as I am concerned) the distinction between "alpha" behavior that often brings great real-life success with women, and cancerous behavior that terrorizes them is nearly impossible to draw.
And that, in a nutshell, is why some people are willing to forgive Trump for his "locker room" talk (though he is still a pig because he's clearly crossed this line habitually).
Cat-calling is also a nuanced concept because it is in many ways an instinctive response to the sexual power an attractive woman willingly exerts upon the male subconsciousness. No, this does not mean they "deserve" to be groped let alone assaulted (!), but it is a particular form of violence against men that I feel is never properly addressed.
What I just said perhaps makes some people facepalm and cringe, but your problem then lies with the factual reality of sexual relations between men and women and not with my speculation.
Women rage about the necessity of wearing make-up 24/7 and about being objectified all the time, but most of them nevertheless spend half their money and time specifically on the task of appearing sexually attractive to men in a radius as wide as possible, because that gives them vast amounts of "soft" power over men.
Our culture has been glorifying female sexual liberation for 30 years non-stop, in addition to enforcing highly dubious ideas of "gender fluidity" marshaled by the exact same people using the term rape culture, to a point where most female celebrities (women adored and mimicked by young girls all across the world) are famous for some kind of porn, and many of them, frankly, act like sluts - or more precisely, they act like men. Why don't we ever talk about that? Do you think this contributes to the problem of rape culture or not?
Post-Samantha, in the age of Miley Cyrus and the Kardashians, is it safe to say we have a "whore culture" problem in addition to a "rape culture" problem? Is this a legitimate topic to discuss or am I deplorable? I don't know but if someone is triggered by the obscene (and deliberately obtuse) way I framed this, they should understand that championing beta behavior as a one-stop solution to the issues of violence between genders triggers many people, too, and directly helps politicians like Trump rally the silent majority. 1.) People are attracted to the options around them. If they live in a culture that values rape, they will be attracted to rapey things. Women are not "illogically" attracted to it, its a side effect that rape permeates so much of the culture that often the choice women have is to either fetish it or become celibate. 2.) Women wear makeup because the west is such a misogynistic culture, it is impossible for women to feel value outside of their own bodies. Western culture emphasizes the importance of the female body as a fuck toy to rape that in order for many women engaged in that culture, beautification to maximize the value they are told to have becomes primary. 3.) There is no such thing as a whore problem. Women enjoying sex is a not a whore problem. A whore problem is when you disallow and make illegal for women to earn an income and women are forced to become whores to make ends meet. A woman enjoying sex is, in and of itself, normal. Now if women walked around, grabbing little boys dicks, going to school and and took videos of little boys peeing, broke into peoples houses and fucked men at gun point, then you can talk about women acting too much like men. But just because they like having sex too--that's a fairly stupid thing to bring up. 4.) The reason women are doing the things you observe them doing is because the west glorifies rape. Women, also being part of western culture, can't help but be forced to engage in it as well. That's what the fucking word culture means--its the thing a group of people do. The reason its illogical and seems to serve people's interest other than the woman's is because the west is a misogynistic culture that doesn't give a fuck about the woman's thoughts and ideas. And then teaches the woman to think the same. This is probably the most anti-women thing I read in a very long time. You are saying that women are too weak to have a mind of their own, make decisions for themselves or just do anything not for men. It's not western society but you who think they are only fuck toys. Read it again. Slower, and use a dictionary for the words you don't understand. Because I fail to see how women enjoying things in the culture they are in equates to being weak minded to you. I don't even see how that equates to them being fuck toys being I don't actually talk about anything in those points about them being fuck toys. 'Use a dictionary' - one hell of an arguement lol. "Women wear makeup because the west is such a misogynistic culture, it is impossible for women to feel value outside of their own bodies." "Women, also being part of western culture, can't help but be forced to engage in it as well." As I said, you claim they are helpless. Moreover, if you now claim they are enjoying it, why is it a bad thing? Seriously, a dictionary, use it. Look up culture. See what it means. Because I don't think you understand words. Lets use a different example since you get very emotional and defensive with rape culture. Lets talk Movie Star Culture. There are good looking movie stars (citation needed), that people desire (citation needed), because they are a big part of movie star culture. People talk about movie stars (citation needed), admire them (citation needed), lust after them (citation needed), and they do this because a lot of people talk about them (citation needed). Since we are in a movie star culture, we can't help but enjoy talking about, fantasizing, and relating things to movies, movie stars, etc... Since it is cultural, we naturally tend to bring it up as a topic of conversation, thoughts, ideas, etc... Its the same with our idea of placing value in the looks of women. As a culture, we highly value good looking women. As such, just like people can't help talking about the Kardashians (you even know who I am talking about just saying Kardashian) women can't help but embody that cultural ideal. Much like it isn't weak to enjoy watching a Star Wars movie, it isn't weak to enjoy the things the culture you are in emphasizes as important. Now, go read a dictionary, and learn words. Once you know what words mean, you can better understand what is being talked about. I won't argue with someone whose only arguement is 'read a dictionary'. EDIT: dumbs happened.
I'm serious about it though. In fact, get an anthropology 101 book. I really don't think you understand what the word culture means. I even shifted the subject away from rape culture into celebrity culture to show you that people love talking, thinking, and fantasizing about things in their culture. But somehow you still don't understand what culture means. Please, look it up, it will be very helpful to you.
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EPT
