|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On July 21 2016 10:52 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2016 10:48 zlefin wrote:Ok, that site has some just plain screwy settings; I dunno what they normalized too, but it's clearly off. https://www.politicalcompass.org/euchartthey put everyone in eu as right-leaning authoritarian, even all of scandinavia. I'm not quite sure what their error is, but stuff clearly seems off. By definition, all EU countries will be in that quadrant as they are liberal/capitalist systems. Individual parties can differ a lot though : https://www.politicalcompass.org/germany2013
well, then I just think they're using very questionable definitions. I mean, they're putting practically everyone as authoritarian.
|
The sweet sound of party unity.
|
On July 21 2016 10:57 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Why can't Cruz be cool... And just say, "fuck it, I endorse Donald Trump", would've been great.
That whole thing just made Ted Cruz look bad. He was using it as a platform for himself for next election
|
On July 21 2016 10:58 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2016 10:57 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Why can't Cruz be cool... And just say, "fuck it, I endorse Donald Trump", would've been great. That whole thing just made Ted Cruz look bad. He was using it as a platform for himself for next election
That worked so well for Christie four years ago.
|
Canada11363 Posts
The bottom quadrants are pretty ignorable tbh, there's not a great deal of people in them and outside of a few.
I don't know about the normal voting population, but running three classes of high school students through the survey, the majority came out between 0,0 and -6,-6 (with one anarchist outlier and one 8,8 outlier- a fan of Rick Perry, Ben Carson, US right wing talk radio and all things Republican.) Now, I found my high school students tended to be far too trusting of the government when it comes to security > freedom. And then there is the big clincher- those are great ideals, but do you still hold to them if to pay for them, your taxes must go up, if yes, then fair play, if no, then let's think about what the cost is.
|
On July 21 2016 10:52 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2016 10:48 zlefin wrote:Ok, that site has some just plain screwy settings; I dunno what they normalized too, but it's clearly off. https://www.politicalcompass.org/euchartthey put everyone in eu as right-leaning authoritarian, even all of scandinavia. I'm not quite sure what their error is, but stuff clearly seems off. By definition, all EU countries will be in that quadrant as they are liberal/capitalist systems. Individual parties can differ a lot though : https://www.politicalcompass.org/germany2013
That quadrant is the opposite of liberalism. Also if you do the test yourself answering based on what your government does you won't get the same result as where they placed your country.
|
United Kingdom13775 Posts
My response to 70% of those questions on the quiz would be "maybe" or "depends." Not much nuance in an agree/disagree poll.
|
|
|
Cruz has a set. He started out defining the principles of the party and ended with a "vote your conscience."
LOL. For better for worse, his audience wasn't the Trumpists in the hall.
|
this song is making my ears bleed
|
Bisutopia19270 Posts
Cruz just endorsed Gary Johnson! That's what I heard.
|
|
|
On July 21 2016 10:53 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2016 10:48 Nevuk wrote:On July 21 2016 10:28 Falling wrote:On July 21 2016 10:21 FiWiFaKi wrote:On July 21 2016 10:19 Falling wrote:On July 21 2016 10:15 FiWiFaKi wrote:On July 21 2016 10:14 Falling wrote:On July 21 2016 10:00 Barrin wrote:On July 21 2016 08:46 FiWiFaKi wrote:
By the way, has there been a poll in this thread to get a rough number of TL democrats/republicans? Curious what the ratio is. 70/30 with majority liberals? Can we get a centrist option? Would need some international options as well- I swing right of centre, but on the Canadian spectrum. Everyone's standing should be expressed in coordinates on the political compass: https://www.politicalcompass.org/Do take the test if you haven't already. I have done it many, many times. I feel like all the political parties are much more extreme on those scale then they are in reality. (They are so heavily authoritarian, for instance.) I usually wind up (-1, -1). Hmm, not sure. I think I've taken it two or three times, and I always got somewhere around (5,6-7). I think some people might be too idealist and happy, and I think that's what happened to me the first time, and I got NDP or something, and I'm like nooooope. It just seems to me that if you have a scale that goes -10 to 10, libertarian to authoritarian, and you put the Conservative Party of Canada at 7, there's no room for fascism or an alliance between big business and the military. Unless the entire scale is assuming a certain sort of democracy and doesn't include other political systems like dictatorships or socialism... or the scale is run by libertarians. The thing is that each quadrant basically is a system of government, top right is the standard western style liberalism, with the further to the top and the right the more neo-liberal it is, with the center (0,0) basically being socialism, the bottom left quadrant being libertarian socialism. Most people here are probably going to be in the liberal quadrant as they were likely raised in that type of system. The difference between a 7 and a 10 is a difference of degrees as to how a particular system should be run, while -7 vs 7 is going to be a difference of belief as to which system should be used entirely. If you surveyed the average citizen of a communist society, there would likely be far more top left quadrant people. The bottom quadrants are pretty ignorable tbh, there's not a great deal of people in them and outside of a few. I ended up with -1/-5 
As an -8,-8 I feel your pain. That's the general attitude taken by most though, especially by politicians, just to ignore them. I interrupted my own typing for some reason and didn't finish my thought, which was that outside of a few exceptions like Catalonia in the 30s there has never really been a full governing state from either of those quadrants.
The way I think about is that there's still a role for people with this sort of belief system in western society, they're required in certain ways for it to function effectively, and they can generally contribute with ideas, so I stay in and try to just promote discussion around ideas. If people come to different conclusions than me that's fine with me.
Besides, there's no real alternative other than fucking off and joining a conclave, which frankly seems a bit like jumping the gun to me. Or maybe just oddly selfish.
|
Trump signed a pledge 
|
On July 21 2016 10:59 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +The bottom quadrants are pretty ignorable tbh, there's not a great deal of people in them and outside of a few. I don't know about the normal voting population, but running two classes of high school students through the survey, the majority came out between 0,0 and -6,-6 (with one anarchist outlier and one 8,8 outlier- a fan of Rick Perry, Ben Carson, US right wing talk radio and all things Republican.) Now, I found my high school students tended to be far too trusting of the government when it comes to security > freedom. And then there is the big clincher- those are great ideals, but do you still hold to them if to pay for them, your taxes must go up, if yes, then fair play, if no, then let's think about what the cost is.
I think students will naturally be very left on both aspects... At least when I was in school, giving people rights to do whatever they want, the moto "people can do whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt others", on the other side, they are very protectionist and fearful of companies, and they desire regulation.
I'm not exactly sure how large an impact the religious section has.
|
Breaking: Trump son loves Dad.
|
Cruz signed a deal with the devil
|
lol wtf Christmas has been struck from public use what is this shit?
|
On July 21 2016 11:03 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2016 10:53 Toadesstern wrote:On July 21 2016 10:48 Nevuk wrote:On July 21 2016 10:28 Falling wrote:On July 21 2016 10:21 FiWiFaKi wrote:On July 21 2016 10:19 Falling wrote:On July 21 2016 10:15 FiWiFaKi wrote:On July 21 2016 10:14 Falling wrote:On July 21 2016 10:00 Barrin wrote:On July 21 2016 08:46 FiWiFaKi wrote:
By the way, has there been a poll in this thread to get a rough number of TL democrats/republicans? Curious what the ratio is. 70/30 with majority liberals? Can we get a centrist option? Would need some international options as well- I swing right of centre, but on the Canadian spectrum. Everyone's standing should be expressed in coordinates on the political compass: https://www.politicalcompass.org/Do take the test if you haven't already. I have done it many, many times. I feel like all the political parties are much more extreme on those scale then they are in reality. (They are so heavily authoritarian, for instance.) I usually wind up (-1, -1). Hmm, not sure. I think I've taken it two or three times, and I always got somewhere around (5,6-7). I think some people might be too idealist and happy, and I think that's what happened to me the first time, and I got NDP or something, and I'm like nooooope. It just seems to me that if you have a scale that goes -10 to 10, libertarian to authoritarian, and you put the Conservative Party of Canada at 7, there's no room for fascism or an alliance between big business and the military. Unless the entire scale is assuming a certain sort of democracy and doesn't include other political systems like dictatorships or socialism... or the scale is run by libertarians. The thing is that each quadrant basically is a system of government, top right is the standard western style liberalism, with the further to the top and the right the more neo-liberal it is, with the center (0,0) basically being socialism, the bottom left quadrant being libertarian socialism. Most people here are probably going to be in the liberal quadrant as they were likely raised in that type of system. The difference between a 7 and a 10 is a difference of degrees as to how a particular system should be run, while -7 vs 7 is going to be a difference of belief as to which system should be used entirely. If you surveyed the average citizen of a communist society, there would likely be far more top left quadrant people. The bottom quadrants are pretty ignorable tbh, there's not a great deal of people in them and outside of a few. I ended up with -1/-5 As an -8,-8 I feel your pain. That's the general attitude taken by most though, especially by politicians, just to ignore them. I interrupted my own typing for some reason and didn't finish my thought, which was that outside of a few exceptions like Catalonia in the 30s there has never really been a full governing state from either of those quadrants. The way I think about is that there's still a role for people with this sort of belief system in western society, they're required in certain ways for it to function effectively, and they can generally contribute with ideas, so I stay in and try to just promote discussion around ideas. If people come to different conclusions than me that's fine with me. Besides, there's no real alternative other than fucking off and joining a conclave, which frankly seems a bit like jumping the gun to me. Or maybe just oddly selfish.
for what it's worth they have the Greens in Germany somewhere around what I ended up (I'm -1/-5.5, Greens at -3/-4) and it's what I'm probably going for. So I'll give them at least that~
|
Since we are posting random tweets
+ Show Spoiler +https://twitter.com/EWErickson/status/755944790173286400
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
