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Yes, it does and I can't get out of it.
Last game, I played as Cho Mid. Went to 6/1 my lane, ahead in CS vs. enemy Diana. Even killed both Diana and Jax when he came to gank by myself. Needless to say, I dominated my lane
Our top teemo, proceeds to 0/5 and feed enemy GP. This is the same guy who screamed TOP when we got into select screen.
Meanwhile our amumu was 3~4 levels behind enemy jungler. He gave me 0 ganks, and his ganks on other lanes actually ended up feeding. He was 1/6. He rushed Rylais on Amumu.
Oh yeah, the best part: This amumu had no boots by the 28 minute mark. I noticed this because we were chasing a dying enemy, and this amumu was blocking my champ from running ahead by running so slow.
They refused to admit they were bad players. I suggested to them they should never touch play ranked again. At the end screen, I saw that Amumu had 1 win in ranked (TOTAL) and teemo had 0 win in ranked Total.
I ended up 9/5 score as Cho, and enemy Diana said that I destroyed the lane even when I didn't even mention or talk to Diana.
I don't understand how somebody like me, who had played over 100 ranked games, gets paired up with these garbage (but new) players. There should be a system where a new player cannot get paired up with a veteran player for ranked.
I know for sure that I cannot get out of ELO hell. Yes guys, ELO hell exists because you will get paired up with these new ranked players. I checked enemy players and all their players had over 30 wins.
To further strengthen my point, I ALWAYS seem to get teammates who make me lose no matter how many times I win my lane and dominate my enemy.
The game before this, I had a guy who tried Elise (new to ranked). Game before that, terrible skilled teammates. Game before that, some guy afk'd in my game.
Some of you might think that ELO hell doesnt exist, because enemies will get these crap players and AFK's just as much as I have gotten them. Well, the thing is, I seem to have gotten crap like this for my last 15~20 games or so.
I cannot get out of ELO hell. It really is hell. You're forever stuck with players dragging you down no matter how hard you dominate and win ur lane. (Sorry for the rage, but this is true)
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play more games, variance with team mates will even out and you will get towards your 'true' elo, it may take a while.
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We have a special thread on the subforum for whining, please post there.
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Russian Federation798 Posts
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I played 4 games with my nephews account, he is something like 900 elo, i am low gold. Played champs i've never played, never bought wards, never played smart, went legendary in all of them, and we won 3 out of 4. And the fourth one was winnable, but our team forfeited when i was legendary with Fiora. -_- So no, i don't think there really is an elo hell. Maybe if you belong to 1300, it might take you many games to get there from 1200, but if you cant carry yourself against unrankeds, then you belong to unranked.
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I cant make a thread about existence of ELO hell without getting pointed to the QQ thread?
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we all know elo hell exists, it's not just some made up word. I blame riot for using a rating system designed for 1v1 in a 5v5 game.
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On October 28 2012 22:19 GhostOwl wrote:
I cant make a thread about existence of ELO hell without getting pointed to the QQ thread?
Well, this isn't really a thread about ELO Hell, it's just a thread of you QQing.
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there has been plenty of discussion about this allready. in short: you are wrong and ppl have proven it with a enormous sample size.
I still want to give you a tip: there is an elo hell but it's not what you think it is. the only elo hell is in your mind, because it makes you believe you are better than the other guys and that you cannot improve. I tell you one thing that I'am 100% certain of: you can improve drastically. but improving alone isn't even enough to gain elo tbh, because you have to improve at a faster rate than the other players at your elo. if you can do that you will get to the higher brackets. but don't fool yourself: it doesn't matter at what elo you are, ppl are ppl at every elo bracket.
On October 28 2012 22:23 sharky246 wrote:
we all know elo hell exists, it's not just some made up word. I blame riot for using a rating system designed for 1v1 in a 5v5 game.
no we don't. actually most TLers, especially the ones that are actually good, know that it does not exist. the term elo hell is used as a joke around here.
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On October 28 2012 22:29 clickrush wrote:
there has been plenty of discussion about this allready. in short: you are wrong and ppl have proven it with a enormous sample size.
I still want to give you a tip: there is an elo hell but it's not what you think it is. the only elo hell is in your mind, because it makes you believe you are better than the other guys and that you cannot improve. I tell you one thing that I'am 100% certain of: you can improve drastically. but improving alone isn't even enough to gain elo tbh, because you have to improve at a faster rate than the other players at your elo. if you can do that you will get to the higher brackets. but don't fool yourself: it doesn't matter at what elo you are, ppl are ppl at every elo bracket.
Oh really? So when i own my lane getting 10/1 kd ratio and end up losing the game (true story btw), that is not elo hell?
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You are not special, you are just one bad player of many who cannot carry themselves out of bad games because they aren't good enough.
On October 28 2012 22:33 sharky246 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 22:29 clickrush wrote:
there has been plenty of discussion about this allready. in short: you are wrong and ppl have proven it with a enormous sample size.
I still want to give you a tip: there is an elo hell but it's not what you think it is. the only elo hell is in your mind, because it makes you believe you are better than the other guys and that you cannot improve. I tell you one thing that I'am 100% certain of: you can improve drastically. but improving alone isn't even enough to gain elo tbh, because you have to improve at a faster rate than the other players at your elo. if you can do that you will get to the higher brackets. but don't fool yourself: it doesn't matter at what elo you are, ppl are ppl at every elo bracket. Oh really? So when i own my lane getting 10/1 kd ratio and end up losing the game (true story btw), that is not elo hell?
Wow, you had a bad team one game that you did well. That never happens at any elo...
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If you are 10/1 and can't snowball your game, that's your fault. Not trying to be mean, but since I play in a 1v1 mentality - gank a lot when 1-2 kills ahead, just push really hard my advantages - it's way easier.
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no it's not elo hell. it's an anecdote.
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Hi,
There is such a thing as unranked elo, as the people I play with in normal draft mode are ~2000k elo every game. However, My ranked elo is ~1400 and I see players at this elo who would destroy players at 2k elo. I understand what you're saying, but there are bad players all the way up probably until you hit diamond. The difference between a 2k elo and a 1.4k elo is luck in teammates in ranked games. I see absolutely no variance in play from my normals of 2k to 1.4k of ranked.
ELO isn't deisgned for 5v5(it's for chess), and it shouldn't be. This is the closest established system for riot to used and until they make their own its the closest thing they are going to get.
So what do you do? Play and understand that regardless of whatever ELO you will reach there will be people who are "bad" and trolls, etc. TBH you should take this to the QQ thread as more people read that more often then they do other topics.
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On October 28 2012 22:38 Atokad wrote:
Hi,
There is such a thing as unranked elo, as the people I play with in normal draft mode are ~2000k elo every game. However, My ranked elo is ~1400 and I see players at this elo who would destroy players at 2k elo. I understand what you're saying, but there are bad players all the way up probably until you hit diamond. The difference between a 2k elo and a 1.4k elo is luck in teammates in ranked games. I see absolutely no variance in play from my normals of 2k to 1.4k of ranked.
ELO isn't deisgned for 5v5(it's for chess), and it shouldn't be. This is the closest established system for riot to used and until they make their own its the closest thing they are going to get.
So what do you do? Play and understand that regardless of whatever ELO you will reach there will be people who are "bad" and trolls, etc. TBH you should take this to the QQ thread as more people read that more often then they do other topics.
alot of 2k+ players don't even tryhard in their ranked, let alone unranked games. i've heard this argument alot from players who tryhard in their normals. but the truth is that the 2k players you face in normals are trying out stuff, trolling around and doing things they think are hilarious. in ranked you get your ass kicked because those ppl play what they are good with and try to win.
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On October 28 2012 22:37 Lysteria wrote:
If you are 10/1 and can't snowball your game, that's your fault. Not trying to be mean, but since I play in a 1v1 mentality - gank a lot when 1-2 kills ahead, just push really hard my advantages - it's way easier.
I do gank alot, still isn't enough. I also hate how when ganking, my teammate usually just stands behind creeps, out of position, even when i spam ping and tell him to move up for the gank.
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ELO Hell exists, but it's at quite literally every single level of ELO. I don't play League on the weekends and usually not in the afternoons simply because I don't want to deal with the piles of immature kids. It's one thing to deal with bad players, it's totally different dealing with dumbass kids who think they're amazing.
How often do you have a bad game? If it's anything more than 1 out of every 10 games then statistically speaking you're at the ELO you should probably be at. With 10 people in the game, anybody can have a bad game and sometimes it happens to several people on your team at the same time, just as it happens to people on the other team. This isn't Starcraft where you can win 6 games, lose 3 close ones and have a bad game and come out ahead.
The biggest problem with the ELO system is it moves at such a glacial speed, it's very difficult to see your own personal progress as a player. If you get better, it can take months of games to raise your rating to your new skill level.
Winning your lane is not enough to carry yourself out of an elo bracket, unless you literally crush your lane 10 times out of 10. To make up for the games where you don't dominate you need to go out and win the other lanes/game for the other people involved.
The last thing I'll say is this. You don't really understand champion/game matchups very well. Cho'Gath is a really poor lategame AP because of his relatively high cooldowns, if you miss his combo in a teamfight you're not of much use for awhile. Somebody like Karthus while crappy in lane, and bad at dueling is amazing lategame because of how much/consistent his damage is. Cho'Gath is the exact opposite, he's amazing in lane and will beat a lot of mids in the current meta very easily. Why don't people pick him more in the pro scene for mid? because his lategame teamfighting is pretty poor and in many ways worse than a jungle tanky cho.
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oh my god, wake up neeeeoooo
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On October 28 2012 22:47 LaNague wrote:
oh my god, wake up neeeeoooo
problem is that there isn't a sticky for this. there should be an explanation or sth to educate the new players. I'd say about 70% of the new/bad players believe that there is such a thing as elo hell because everyone talks about it on reddit and official forums and in all chat. ppl should be informed about what is wrong with all that so they don't keep on posting stuff like this on TL.
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This again? I thought we all agreed this horse was long dead. It doesn't exist and if you'd play enough games to make them statistically relevant you'd be in the right ELO.
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On October 28 2012 22:19 GhostOwl wrote:
I cant make a thread about existence of ELO hell without getting pointed to the QQ thread?
Nope. Especially since this phenomenon has been debunked empirically, mathematically, and logically.
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On October 28 2012 22:56 clickrush wrote:problem is that there isn't a sticky for this. there should be an explanation or sth to educate the new players. I'd say about 70% of the new/bad players believe that there is such a thing as elo hell because everyone talks about it on reddit and official forums and in all chat. ppl should be informed about what is wrong with all that so they don't keep on posting stuff like this on TL.
It's not that the players are new, it's that they can't be objective and take responsibility for their own mistakes. Combined with a very big personal ego, they will never understand, no matter how long they play league.
I have a playgroup of roughly 10 people from 900-1800 ELO. At least 5 of them firmly believe in ELO hell and claim to be gods that only get matched with shitheads which is obviously the only reason they are stuck at 900-1200 ELO. They play the game for a little over 3 years (they have King Rammus und Ufo Corki skin and a free 3rd rune page so old are their accounts) and have not improved at anything in the game. Not even the basics.
Nobody can help these poor creatures as long as they stay as close-minded as they currently are. The original post is an exact copy of their reaction after they had just another 'unwinnable game because of bad teammates'.
Every once in a while when they actually do good (probably because the enemy is as bad as the own team mates that they complain about) and not fail themselves and still lose, they are like "zomg i go 10/0 in lane but team so bad i lose fuck shit nobs lol cant escape elo hell".
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Climbing elo is as much a skill in and of itself as much as it is about overall LoL ability. There's no doubt that there's luck involved but at the end of the day, it's just like getting all the meat off the carcass - in time if you keep your eyes open, you will claw every bit out of the situations you'r given.
If you know, people lose morale and give up easily - you should use it to your advantage. Elo hell is the mental despair of feeling trapped to the whims of others.
Just because you stomp some idiot in lane, doesn't mean you deserve to win the game.
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Can you post the replay of your kickass 9-5 Cho game so we can see how poorly you played?
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On October 28 2012 23:44 Sufficiency wrote:
Can you post the replay of your kickass 9-5 Cho game so we can see how poorly you played?
This would be interesting because whenever a thread like this comes up the OP NEVER posts a replay. Plz op, deliver. We'll be gentle.
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ELO hell does not exist at all. As long as you focus on improving by having deliberate goals every game, you will eventually reach the rating that you deserve. And if you focus on just enjoying the game and learning more about your champion and how to improve your game, you won't even worry about winning or losing, just about playing your best every single game regardless of what happens.
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Your attitude is really bad and a lot of what you say is garbage. You probably don't realize it but based on reading this post it's more than likely that you don't have the mental attitude required to improve as a teammate/better player. I am not a pro player but have played almost 1.1k ranked games working out from 770 elo to high 1600s starting from a 5-21 record cause I sucked and needed a LoL reality check.
On October 28 2012 21:28 GhostOwl wrote:
Yes, it does and I can't get out of it.
No otherwise other people would never get out which is clearly false since thousands of people have proved its possible to get out.
On October 28 2012 21:28 GhostOwl wrote:
Last game, I played as Cho Mid. Went to 6/1 my lane, ahead in CS vs. enemy Diana. Even killed both Diana and Jax when he came to gank by myself. Needless to say, I dominated my lane
Congrats you won lane. Did you provide any help for your team? Did you carry this advantage through to team fights? Were your cs counts keeping up with your good start? Are you doing this well every game? Think about these questions a bit in every single game you play. If you're that low I'm sure you have a few farming issues and are compensating by describing your 6/1 start.
On October 28 2012 21:28 GhostOwl wrote:
Our top teemo, proceeds to 0/5 and feed enemy GP. This is the same guy who screamed TOP when we got into select screen.
Sometimes people get outplayed. I'm sure it's happened to you. Telling them how bad they are isn't going to change anything. Block it out or try to provide some helpful insight. Maybe the guy can be useful later in a group (i.e. blind/mushrooms). + Now he's worth no money anyway so if he keeps dying the benefit diminishes.
On October 28 2012 21:28 GhostOwl wrote:
They refused to admit they were bad players. I suggested to them they should never touch play ranked again. At the end screen, I saw that Amumu had 1 win in ranked (TOTAL) and teemo had 0 win in ranked Total.
Shit attitude alert. Telling others how bad they are doesn't improve YOU. Go back and analyze your own play. If you can truly say you played 100% PERFECT in every single aspect of the game, then consider it variance as the reason for your loss. I really doubt you are playing 100% perfect every single game.
On October 28 2012 21:28 GhostOwl wrote:
I ended up 9/5 score as Cho, and enemy Diana said that I destroyed the lane even when I didn't even mention or talk to Diana.
9/5 isn't a hard carry. If anything, everytime you're dying you're worth more money than she is. Again ask, did you cs like a boss? Did you make team plays? Did you provide helpful assistance in team fights?
On October 28 2012 21:28 GhostOwl wrote:
I don't understand how somebody like me, who had played over 100 ranked games, gets paired up with these garbage (but new) players. There should be a system where a new player cannot get paired up with a veteran player for ranked.
100 games isn't a lot. Try 1k+
On October 28 2012 21:28 GhostOwl wrote:
I know for sure that I cannot get out of ELO hell. Yes guys, ELO hell exists because you will get paired up with these new ranked players. I checked enemy players and all their players had over 30 wins.
Due to your game sample size as well. You probably have slightly higher the number of wins. Play more games.
On October 28 2012 21:28 GhostOwl wrote:
To further strengthen my point, I ALWAYS seem to get teammates who make me lose no matter how many times I win my lane and dominate my enemy.
This doesn't strengthen any point. You have no statistical evidence or proof of this. This is a psychological problem where you remember your bad experiences and forget about your good ones. You probably blow off the good games and only focus on the shit ones.
On October 28 2012 21:28 GhostOwl wrote:
Some of you might think that ELO hell doesnt exist, because enemies will get these crap players and AFK's just as much as I have gotten them. Well, the thing is, I seem to have gotten crap like this for my last 15~20 games or so.
I've had winning streaks as big as 13-15 games and losing streaks as big as 17 games. You have no idea. I'm sure there are people with worse. Don't cry till you've been there.
On October 28 2012 21:28 GhostOwl wrote:
I cannot get out of ELO hell. It really is hell. You're forever stuck with players dragging you down no matter how hard you dominate and win ur lane. (Sorry for the rage, but this is true)
See above comments. League is a more complicated game than just "winning lane".
TL;DR
- Your attitude sucks
- You probably don't play 100% every game
- I would be interested in seeing your average cs counts. They probably aren't that great.
- Raging solves nothing except make others play worse.
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OP is all about attitude. If this is your attitude then you will never reach your 'true ELO skill'. Because a bad attitude is going to knock 200 ElO from your potential.
Fix your attitude and deal with the variance.
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On October 28 2012 21:28 GhostOwl wrote:
They refused to admit they were bad players. I suggested to them they should never touch play ranked again.
I hope they reported you after the game concluded then.
You see, they were probably doing their best to win. You were deliberately lowering team moral by bitching in chat. When someone starts bitching, every single person on that team will tend to play worse. You were deliberately making your team play worse.
You have no right to complain about your loss if you have that attitude.
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Remember that if you keep losing, the only continuous factor in all those games is you. ELO hell is a real place, I have several friends there, and it has expanded. I'd say it stops being ELO hell somewhere around 1450-1500, but anywhere below that people will just randomly leave the game, afk for dinner, feed if they don't get to play their champion etc. It's out of your control, but as have been mentioned, if you do your part, don't throw shit around you and just keep playing the game, you will rise in ELO if you are supposed to. All this random shit happens to the other team, too.
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Of course elo hell exist, I just drop out from 1450 to 1190 and if I can say that I played bad a couple of games, it's clear that half my game were impossible to carry with one of not two lanes just completly feeding. The idea that you have to play more games is also ridiculous, because "elo hell" is not the fact that at a certain elo your team just suck, it's that players are inconsistant.
For exemple, chaox in his teaching marathon was playing a 1200 elo game, watching a jayce, and he was impressed at how good he played until he made a thousand of stupid mystakes.
When people says that there are no difference between high elo and low elo, they are also very wrong. You just can't see the difference in play by play, but in overall understand of the game, when to engage when to back out, there are a lot of things that low elo doesn't get and that you can't see directly on the game. One of the main thing and that explain their inconsistency is that people don't know how to play when they are behind - which lead to endless feed.
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On October 29 2012 00:42 Fen2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2012 21:28 GhostOwl wrote:
They refused to admit they were bad players. I suggested to them they should never touch play ranked again. I hope they reported you after the game concluded then. You see, they were probably doing their best to win. You were deliberately lowering team moral by bitching in chat. When someone starts bitching, every single person on that team will tend to play worse. You were deliberately making your team play worse. You have no right to complain about your loss if you have that attitude.
Yup. pretty much. No pity for someone who says these things.
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This whole game is made of good top/mids who then bitch at other top/mids forced to play other roles. If you're actually a good jungler or support then you team up with the millions of other top/mids and building elo is piss-easy.
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if your elo doesnt improve you have found yur true elo. There is no elo hell, it is something people made up to excuse their low rating number. What most people dont understand is that elo=/= your laning skill. It doesnt matter if you win your lane. If you do shit in teamfights and get caught all the time alone past the laning phase, you are bad and it doesnt amtter if you went 10-0
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On October 29 2012 01:02 TheLink wrote:
This whole game is made of good top/mids who then bitch at other top/mids forced to play other roles. If you're actually a good jungler or support then you team up with the millions of other top/mids and building elo is piss-easy.
The wisest statement about LoL ever put to written word, I really regret watching Dyrus, since before he was moved into TSMs' house, and falling in love with top lane.
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if u aren't skilled enough to carry the others, then u're just one of them ^_^
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On October 29 2012 01:09 Bam Lee wrote:
if your elo doesnt improve you have found yur true elo. There is no elo hell, it is something people made up to excuse their low rating number. What most people dont understand is that elo=/= your laning skill. It doesnt matter if you win your lane. If you do shit in teamfights and get caught all the time alone past the laning phase, you are bad and it doesnt amtter if you went 10-0
And honestly this is what many of the "My real elo is a lot higher, just u noobs keeping me down" people seem to do. Almost always when i see someone complaining about elo hell in my game, they are people with good laning phase, get kills and farm well.
But then come team fights, they play overly aggressive, dive when they should not, have zero sense on how team fights are going to go, and just go all in on every opportunity. And when they have fed all of their advantage to the other team, they start blaming their team mates, because they are 2k players being held down by the noobs they ALWAYS get in their team...
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Neo hung over from Halloween party last night or something.
Guys if I dropped 200 elo over a week yet I don't feed in any of my game that means I'm in elo hell right?
'Cause that would at least explain why all of a sudden I can't win a game...le sigh.
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United States3824 Posts
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I went 19-2 or something with kat and we lost because our caitlyn kept getting caught before teamfights. There is nothing i can do about that.
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On October 29 2012 01:32 olabaz wrote:
I went 19-2 or something with kat and we lost because our caitlyn kept getting caught before teamfights. There is nothing i can do about that.
guess you didn't carry hard enough
if you can't get yourself out of 800 elo, that ain't elo hell, that's where you belong.
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I think I'm in ELO hell, and here's how I know
I troll and throw every game, which means that there are only 4 spots for competent players on my team while there are 5 on the other team. Therefore, in average games over the long run, there will be more good players on the opposing team and more noob feeder etcs on mine, resulting in the fact that I can never get to higher ELO.
ELO HELL IS HARD YO
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On October 29 2012 01:02 TheLink wrote:
This whole game is made of good top/mids who then bitch at other top/mids forced to play other roles. If you're actually a good jungler or support then you team up with the millions of other top/mids and building elo is piss-easy.
Or just play 4-5 roles and do whatever your team needs.
Real easy to gain Elo when you don't have to worry about not having coverage.
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Just accept there are games which you CAN'T win.Some people are just luckier than others and think that this happens rarely  .
There is no elo hell though.But since this is a team game you can always lose/win no matter how you did.
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ok so your saying u won 2v1 as cho and went 6-1 in lane? ok but that does nothing to win you the game... in order to carry out ur elo you have to make the big plays in mid game. just saying u won the lane is never going to win you the game, so are the games in high elo. ur team's score can be 20-40 and still win the game... i've heard enough ppl say that they went 15-0 in lane and then still lost the game due to "trashy teammates".. maybe, but you have no leadership skill and a trashy "mid game play". GETTING KILLS DOES NOT = WINNING THE GAME
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
Sorry, but if you cant get decent ELO with a large game sample, you are likely better off blaming yourself. Any good player gets himself to high ELO alone. Put the autobiographies in a blog. This only proves that you arent as good as you think you are at WINNING GAMES and CARRYING YOUR TEAM.
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EPT
