I've been questioning myself for some time why the United-States are that aggressive towards France. I'm half French but leave in the UK, I may not be totally objective but it seems it's more one-sided. There is bashing in different parts:
-People bashing, i don't know much about since I do not leave in the US. Maybe you guys can tell me if jokes about French are common.
-Political bashing, that's the part that surprises me the most. In France people may tell Americans are fat, or on the medias they may call them rambos. But on a political level, nothing. Not the same for the Americans. France Bashing seems to be a really popular sport among the republican party. http://aproposfrance-usa.blogspot.com/
Here is one quote from Bush "The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur". A part from the fact that "entrepreneur" is a french word, what is the goal of this statement? An American friend of mine told me that if Kerry was not France friendly he could have won the elections. Do you agree?
EDIT:
I really don't get it, United-States and France have ALWAYS (except Suez stuff) on the same side, so why?
So to resume, why does this bashing exist? Is it as important as it seems? At which level (street,media,political) level is it the more dangerous? My statement may be totally wrong, so I need some insight from Americans themselves. Please be respectful PS: a little trick of history xD George Washington, the first American president of history was a linear descendant of a frenchman.
Man everyone bash french people as much as they do with americans. They have so many people with strong nationalistic attitude that just pisses off everybody else. I have nothing against these people who believe their country is the absolute best (when it's not), I just think it's silly, but I understand why the world doesn't like these countries.
They're too nationalistic, arrogant and selfish. As such, people hate them and this can be seen by how apparently, French people are the most unpopular tourists.
Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
Dunno, i personally like the french. But then again, i also believe that arrogance is a positive trait, if you can back it up. Americans probably just tease and mock the french, they don't actually hate them.
I am french. Sometimes I think that people are right to bash us. I'm going to generalize a bit here, but it's undeniable that some of us are chauvinistic, pretentious, uneducated assholes. Not to mention we can't behave when abroad, and that's really unfortunate because everytime I go abroad, I think man our reputation definitely precedes us. I'm kind of tired having to pay for my fellow Frenchmen's incongruous behavior.
American bashing French for "surrendering" or being cowards is just pathetic. It's just that France didn't support a certain policy (that turned out to be a disaster anyway) and it was Republicans' way of getting back at them. That's some fourth grade shit right there.
Everyone bashes everyone else when it is easy. France and the US have easy to identify points to bash on.
Also, I giggled when you cited a Bush (I'm assuming it's W. Bush, and not H. W. Bush)quote. He's known for, among other things, retarded quotes. Although I think Bachmann may have him beat there.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I have been in France for 5 months now and so far they seem alright. Although I am based around the aquataine region so it might be different elsewhere in France. The locals here seems to think that mostly the Parisians are too blame :p
people bash the french sometimes because they are generally very laid back etc, aren't coffee shops etc very popular there and people sit around smoke and talk etc?
In all fairness, I'm American, but I don't bash the French at all. I'd say that most Americans who do have some sort of mild xenophobic tendencies. Because the French are very different from the American, the American people don't know how to respond to those differences, thus they make fun of the French.
Being English, France gets referred to in comedy sometimes, but no where else. I haven't heard people truly bash France in the political arena or anything, in fact, this clip from Dara O'Briain sums this issue up perfectly.
How can you be a rival with a country that runs away and leaves spain just floating there on its own with protugal?
There is nothing wrong with xenophopic banter as long as it is fun and kept amusing. It is something all cultures have in common and so is a good tool for conversation when there is nothing left to talk about.
I dont think i have ever met anyone who honestly doesnt like french people (well except a dutch guy i know) - its all banter.
The only nationality i really know that gets upset when you insult its nation is america ... Fuck yeah ...
Im french and I live in France. And this country has a lot of dumb people. Education and political system suck hard, and a lot of people are just unsociable and always unhappy. Not to mention, the arrogance of French (well this is characteristic and not that bad as every country has people with a main default).
But it's a beautiful country, and you can meet great people. And there is a reason why French culture is so well-known.
The thing is that Americans think that French are cowards who didn't take part in the WWII. Well, we got attacked by a huge ass army with a crazy dictator. Pétain, the Maréchal at this time (the commander of the army), decided to cooperate with the nazis. And that's why people don't like French. I'd like to say that after WW2, Pétain got executed for cooperating with the nazis.
tbh i want less than 35 hours .. i dont get why people want to work more lol. Or work for an hourly wage but don't get paid if they work more than certain number of hours a week.
TBH people should get paid more for doing the work in less time ...
On January 21 2012 21:48 Nightshake wrote: Im french and I live in France. And this country has a lot of dumb people. Education and political system suck hard, and a lot of people are just unsociable and always unhappy. Not to mention, the arrogance of French (well this is characteristic and not that bad as every country has people with a main default).
But it's a beautiful country, and you can meet great people. And there is a reason why French culture is so well-known.
The thing is that Americans think that French are cowards who didn't take part in the WWII. Well, we got attacked by a huge ass army with a crazy dictator. Pétain, the Maréchal at this time (the commander of the army), decided to cooperate with the nazis. And that's why people don't like French. I'd like to say that after WW2, Pétain got executed for cooperating with the nazis.
And let's not forget that we're not the only ones who got PWNT by the Nazis. I'm thinking of Netherlands for exmaple, which was overrun in 5 days.
On January 21 2012 21:49 IveReturned wrote: If you make a law that shuts up the people who dont think like you do, you must be an ignorant retard. Thats my opinion about french.
First, these are kind of arguable generalizations, one should make differences within American society. For instance, I expect some social milieux to be overall rather French friendly (like scholars for instance). Second, please do not forget that there is a quite strong anti americanism in France too, which is sometimes nationalistic (in the tradition of De Gaulle, and the refusal to be either pro US or pro USSR in the cold war, although France was de facto rather on the US side); sometimes anti imperialist (so more leftist). Sometimes it can be a mix of both! (like the French communist party in the 60's defending French wine against Coke). Third, Some recent events have degraded Franco american relations (which overall remain friendly), for instance the refusal of France to go to war. in Iraq. I still remember stories at that time, about the US changing "French" fries into "freedom" fries... This might explain some of it. Fourth, overall, I am afraid there is nationalism and nationalist jokes everywhere around the world, from all countries against all countries. Yet, US nationalism is quite strong I would say (I was so suprised of how many Americans have US flags in their home; this would be considered very strange and far right in France). Nationalism leading to the hatred of the other, as history has shown so many times, this could explain that. (and in this regard, "france bashing" is far from being the main concern... Muslim identity for instance is much more in trouble I would say; as communists were under MacCarthysm in the 1950's - I mean potentially, not at the moment).
On January 21 2012 21:49 IveReturned wrote: If you make a law that shuts up the people who dont think like you do, you must be an ignorant retard. Thats my opinion about french.
Making a link between a very recent and hotly controversed law and a whole population seems very intelligent. Nice to see you have an objective opinion on the matter.
On January 21 2012 21:49 IveReturned wrote: If you make a law that shuts up the people who dont think like you do, you must be an ignorant retard. Thats my opinion about french.
Could you be more precise please ?
I think he refers to the law that makes it illegal to deny the armenian genocide.
On January 21 2012 21:23 aTnClouD wrote: Man everyone bash french people as much as they do with americans. They have so many people with strong nationalistic attitude that just pisses off everybody else. I have nothing against these people who believe their country is the absolute best (when it's not), I just think it's silly, but I understand why the world doesn't like these countries.
And the Italians are not?? There live so many Italians in Switzerland who doesn't know our language after 20 fucking years, because they seperate in groups with other Italians and refuse the integrate. And that's not the minority. It's a very Italian thing.
@Topic In Switzerland we don't make that many jokes about the French but rather about the Americans. I think the thing with the French is, that they are very proud of their country and sometimes refuse to learn ot her languages, because they still see themselves as the very best culture. This has changed with the youth I believe.
Doesn't France get bashed by citizens of many countries? As a German I know countless of jokes about you guys(though you probably know some about us aswell). I have a difficult relationship with you frenchies, simply because I had bad luck with french people I met on the internet. To be frank, most of them were assholes, but there were nice guys too so I generally ask myself if my thoughts about france and french people were caused by my personal experiences with them, since I might have met A LOT of people I didn't like from there(writing that sounds mean lol), but I refuse to believe that they were assholes because they were french. So I try to meet you with the respect and friendliness I meet everybody else with too.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
that's some nice revisionnism. i tought education was ok in sweden...
On January 21 2012 21:48 Nightshake wrote: Im french and I live in France. And this country has a lot of dumb people. Education and political system suck hard, and a lot of people are just unsociable and always unhappy. Not to mention, the arrogance of French (well this is characteristic and not that bad as every country has people with a main default).
But it's a beautiful country, and you can meet great people. And there is a reason why French culture is so well-known.
The thing is that Americans think that French are cowards who didn't take part in the WWII. Well, we got attacked by a huge ass army with a crazy dictator. Pétain, the Maréchal at this time (the commander of the army), decided to cooperate with the nazis. And that's why people don't like French. I'd like to say that after WW2, Pétain got executed for cooperating with the nazis.
That the word Chauvinistic orginates from French kind of sums it up well. And it's not only the US where people think like this . But there's a lot of cool French people as well so it really depends on the person.
On January 21 2012 21:48 Nightshake wrote: Im french and I live in France. And this country has a lot of dumb people. Education and political system suck hard, and a lot of people are just unsociable and always unhappy. Not to mention, the arrogance of French (well this is characteristic and not that bad as every country has people with a main default).
But it's a beautiful country, and you can meet great people. And there is a reason why French culture is so well-known.
The thing is that Americans think that French are cowards who didn't take part in the WWII. Well, we got attacked by a huge ass army with a crazy dictator. Pétain, the Maréchal at this time (the commander of the army), decided to cooperate with the nazis. And that's why people don't like French. I'd like to say that after WW2, Pétain got executed for cooperating with the nazis.
And let's not forget that we're not the only ones who got PWNT by the Nazis. I'm thinking of Netherlands for exmaple, which was overrun in 5 days.
That's not a very good comparison seeing as France is actually bigger than Germany and German is like 10x Holland.
On January 21 2012 21:49 IveReturned wrote: If you make a law that shuts up the people who dont think like you do, you must be an ignorant retard. Thats my opinion about french.
Could you be more precise please ?
Check the country he's from and the political problems between you lately. And Ive, I'd suggest that you don't forget the difference between a people and its gov. (though I was on the side of the frenchies in that one)
On January 21 2012 21:57 Logros wrote: That the word Chauvinistic orginates from French kind of sums it up well. And it's not only the US where people think like this . But there's a lot of cool French people as well so it really depends on the person.
On January 21 2012 21:48 Nightshake wrote: Im french and I live in France. And this country has a lot of dumb people. Education and political system suck hard, and a lot of people are just unsociable and always unhappy. Not to mention, the arrogance of French (well this is characteristic and not that bad as every country has people with a main default).
But it's a beautiful country, and you can meet great people. And there is a reason why French culture is so well-known.
The thing is that Americans think that French are cowards who didn't take part in the WWII. Well, we got attacked by a huge ass army with a crazy dictator. Pétain, the Maréchal at this time (the commander of the army), decided to cooperate with the nazis. And that's why people don't like French. I'd like to say that after WW2, Pétain got executed for cooperating with the nazis.
And let's not forget that we're not the only ones who got PWNT by the Nazis. I'm thinking of Netherlands for exmaple, which was overrun in 5 days.
That's not a very good comparison seeing as France is actually bigger than Germany and German is like 10x Holland.
France was smaller than the 3rd reich, on all points (population/ military/territory/economy...)
On January 21 2012 21:43 Silidons wrote: people bash the french sometimes because they are generally very laid back etc, aren't coffee shops etc very popular there and people sit around smoke and talk etc?
That sounds like a Starbucks minus the plethora of Macbooks.
On January 21 2012 21:43 Silidons wrote: people bash the french sometimes because they are generally very laid back etc, aren't coffee shops etc very popular there and people sit around smoke and talk etc?
That sounds like a Starbucks minus the plethora of Macbooks.
That's the romantic view of Paris, still true in some parts. The coffee shop/bar is still a central place in most rural areas, but it's no longer the case in cities. Tho the fact that french people love to enjoy life and do simple things is still quite true, most people aren't in a hurry. That's where the lazy stereotype comes from, along our numerous work law (35hour is just the most publicized one but far from being the most important)
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
It's true that France is well known to suck at learning other languages. Probably because back in time french was the diplomacy language and we keep that in us, that refers to previous generation. Actually there's still a lot of people who don't see the good in learn english but it's changing.
France usually take decision alone, Chirac decide to not engage our army into the Irak war. That's the type of decision who makes believe that we've got a lot of proud or something.
Yes, if you go to Paris you'll see more people avoiding you than help you. Is it so different from other country when you're at the capital ? And for the french tourist, I certainly believe it's a minority who piss everybody. It's always the same for every country. I can say that I hate german for going into the south of France with their big mercedes and stuff, or the dutch with their caravan. It's also a minority but there is always one to see.
So yeah I think french bashing is just "more famous" because of our past / present. But certainly not an exception
On January 21 2012 21:49 IveReturned wrote: If you make a law that shuts up the people who dont think like you do, you must be an ignorant retard. Thats my opinion about french.
Could you be more precise please ?
Check the country he's from and the political problems between you lately. And Ive, I'd suggest that you don't forget the difference between a people and its gov. (though I was on the side of the frenchies in that one)
I dont think any french would disagree with its gov.
And why would you agree with the prevention of freedom of expression of thought?
I sometimes bash France for fun but I don't do it seriousely. Sometimes it's weird though, few days back I listened to news in the radio: "In an accident on the highway three humans and one french were injured."
On January 21 2012 21:37 Al Bundy wrote: I am french. Sometimes I think that people are right to bash us. I'm going to generalize a bit here, but it's undeniable that some of us are chauvinistic, pretentious, uneducated assholes.
But it is also undeniable that people like that exist in other countries as well.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
that's some nice revisionnism. i tought education was ok in sweden...
On January 21 2012 21:48 Nightshake wrote: Im french and I live in France. And this country has a lot of dumb people. Education and political system suck hard, and a lot of people are just unsociable and always unhappy. Not to mention, the arrogance of French (well this is characteristic and not that bad as every country has people with a main default).
But it's a beautiful country, and you can meet great people. And there is a reason why French culture is so well-known.
The thing is that Americans think that French are cowards who didn't take part in the WWII. Well, we got attacked by a huge ass army with a crazy dictator. Pétain, the Maréchal at this time (the commander of the army), decided to cooperate with the nazis. And that's why people don't like French. I'd like to say that after WW2, Pétain got executed for cooperating with the nazis.
I think french people are despised because they can't articulate anything in english. That makes them look arrogant and stuff, whereas they're not refusing to, but just unable to speak english.
People aboard wouldn't believe I was french when I spoke english with them.
Secondly and regarding the particular USA/france matchup, I could see a jealousy based upon being a fresh country with a fresh culture (a cliché here is to call americans uncultured) against a very old country with... a very old culture. I think we french envy you (at least I do) for your wide spaces, big cars and kinda strong economy (don't quote me on that).
All in all, this is bullcrap and should remain a subject for small talk only. Respect, share, learn...
Edit : most of the people I know and talk to disagree with our gov. Our president is hated as a person. This year will see presidential elections, but it seems it will again be a vote of contestation (I do not want this guy, therefore i vote for the other one) and not adhesion. French are very critical towards their politics.
On January 21 2012 21:49 IveReturned wrote: If you make a law that shuts up the people who dont think like you do, you must be an ignorant retard. Thats my opinion about french.
Could you be more precise please ?
Check the country he's from and the political problems between you lately. And Ive, I'd suggest that you don't forget the difference between a people and its gov. (though I was on the side of the frenchies in that one)
I dont think any french would disagree with its gov.
I'm going to get a godwin point but it's just as the law who punish everybody who deny the Shoah. Do you think it's a law from ignorant retard ?
Amernian Genocide is a fact in France. Negationism is also a crime. But I agree that it's not to France to say that, it's just like the Algerian war, years ago it was still "the algerian accident" so I believe some days Turkey will do the same..
Well, to be honest, most of us don't care if people bash us because, like in most countries, we don't care that much about others.
On the bash thing with the US, it's pretty clear that it all started after De Villepin's speech in front of Colin Powell at the U.N where we, as a country from the NATO, pretty much said f%*k you to our allies because we knew the war that was on the verge of happening was built on lies.
US higher-ups didn't like it and launched the anti-french campaign, probably to focus people's attention to us instead of the slaughtering of Iraqi people.
On January 21 2012 21:49 IveReturned wrote: If you make a law that shuts up the people who dont think like you do, you must be an ignorant retard. Thats my opinion about french.
Could you be more precise please ?
Check the country he's from and the political problems between you lately. And Ive, I'd suggest that you don't forget the difference between a people and its gov. (though I was on the side of the frenchies in that one)
I dont think any french would disagree with its gov.
LOL, the current government for the past 17 years has been but a joke in this country.
French speaking people are awesome! Thats my experience at least. I dunno why but all French speaking people I have met so far were totally awesome - be in from Quebec, Belgium or France <3
I dont think any french would disagree with its gov.
I think half the french disagree with their gov.
IS THERE ANY FRENCH WHO DISAGREES WITH ITS GOV ABOUT THE NEW ARMENIAN LAW? pm me or post here
I'm French and I disagree, I think this sort of laws is bad for democracy and freedom of speech. So if I had a chance I would vote no.
Though the Turkey's position is even worst, not recognizing the genocide. 1.5 people killed and the Turkey pretends nothing happened. For me that's even more scandalous than the French law.
Personally i think it's ridiculous to hate a country or it's entire population.
There are both nice and less nice people in all countries. It's pretty immature to judge a whole country/population by how some people are even if they are many. Because there will always be people who doesn't fit in with the opinions of the haters.
Remember there's 2 sides to a coin. And in most cases you like one side of it more than the other. But just because it has a worse side to it doesn't mean you throw it away because it's still valuable.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
that's some nice revisionnism. i tought education was ok in sweden...
On January 21 2012 21:48 Nightshake wrote: Im french and I live in France. And this country has a lot of dumb people. Education and political system suck hard, and a lot of people are just unsociable and always unhappy. Not to mention, the arrogance of French (well this is characteristic and not that bad as every country has people with a main default).
But it's a beautiful country, and you can meet great people. And there is a reason why French culture is so well-known.
The thing is that Americans think that French are cowards who didn't take part in the WWII. Well, we got attacked by a huge ass army with a crazy dictator. Pétain, the Maréchal at this time (the commander of the army), decided to cooperate with the nazis. And that's why people don't like French. I'd like to say that after WW2, Pétain got executed for cooperating with the nazis.
And french education is indeed awful. Pétain wasn't the marechal, he wasn't executed...
You're right actually, but the reason why he didn't get executed is that he was too old.
He was sentenced but DeGaulle decided to mercy him and he was jailed until his death in the mid 50's. That was because of his age and because of his performance in WWI too, his nick name was the "victor of verdun" and it carried an important message at this time. Globally collaborationnism wasn't harslhy punished, except for a few cases.
Regarding language I think the main reason is that our education system is globally flawed and our elitist formation provide some decent training regarding english but nobody who's responsible of that stuff ever felt the need to promote a decent education of foreign languages. I don't think it's the fact that we're proud of our language, only a few frenchies know how to speak english properly.
On January 21 2012 21:48 Nightshake wrote: Im french and I live in France. And this country has a lot of dumb people. Education and political system suck hard, and a lot of people are just unsociable and always unhappy. Not to mention, the arrogance of French (well this is characteristic and not that bad as every country has people with a main default).
Nearly every inteligent (and well-informed) person on the world is gonna say the same thing about their own country I guess so dont worry too mutch about that. But what I would say is that the german battle.net forums actually beat the english ones by FAR in stupidity and trolling.
I dont think any french would disagree with its gov.
I think half the french disagree with their gov.
IS THERE ANY FRENCH WHO DISAGREES WITH ITS GOV ABOUT THE NEW ARMENIAN LAW? pm me or post here
btw what is shoah?
Shoah is the Hebrew term for the Holocaust in WWII. I don't remember who decide to choose that term but it's a standart in France to refers to the holocaust with this term.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
You French did not cause WW2...
What the fuck.
Well their treatment of the Germans after the first world war(which every country in europe started back then), especially in terms of reparations(going into German facilities and simply TAKING stuff, while shooting Germans who protested against that in some cases(when we were late with the payments, which was only natural since they were rediculously high)) basically guaranteed that there'll be another war together with the treaty of Versaille
I dont think any french would disagree with its gov.
I think half the french disagree with their gov.
Right now, less than 1/3 of people agreed with the gouvernement actually. x) This thread is funny to read as a french. I don't really know why people see us that way. I mean yeah, most french are VERY proud of their country, and like to hate on americans and on english people ( the england / france rivality is like centuries old ). And yeah french tourist are the worst in the world, perhaps because they know France is the most visited country in the world.
Maybe it would be better if it was easier to learn english here. Most 20 years old student can't even have a conversiation with someone in english. At all.
On January 21 2012 21:49 IveReturned wrote: If you make a law that shuts up the people who dont think like you do, you must be an ignorant retard. Thats my opinion about french.
Could you be more precise please ?
Check the country he's from and the political problems between you lately. And Ive, I'd suggest that you don't forget the difference between a people and its gov. (though I was on the side of the frenchies in that one)
I dont think any french would disagree with its gov.
And why would you agree with the prevention of freedom of expression of thought?
Well, I can tell you that many French wouldn't agree with this law. As to why would one agree with limitations of the freedom of speech (generally speaking, not in this case): because speech is sometimes a form of action, and certain actions cannot be accepted, because of their consequences. For instance, defending nazi opinion in France is forbidden, and I agree with that, because expressing nazi opinions is a way to encourage certain kind of behaviours which are in all regards and without any possible doubt dangerous, full of hatred and unacceptable.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
You French did not cause WW2...
What the fuck.
Well their treatment of the Germans after the first world war(which every country in europe started back then), especially in terms of reparations(going into German facilities and simply TAKING stuff, while shooting Germans who protested against that in some cases) basically guaranteed that there'll be another war together with the treaty of Versaille
You do understand that, after the destruction brought by the Germans and its allies during WWI, we were quite right about asking for some kind of refund and trying to stop Germany from having an army, right?
The war was only there because of Hitler, sure loads of veterans and germans hated the diktat, I'm pretty sure they didn't want 60 millions of people dying and their country destroyed for more than 50 years.
I live in quebec and I've played soccer for a long time. I had 2 french coaches and I hated them so much because they always thought they were better than anyone. They told us that we couldn't argue with them since they were french and quebecers knows nothing about soccer. That was the same with some players too. That was frustrating.
It's kinda like this on the internet too. I've often seen french people pretending they were always the best at anything (food, games, sports, etc).
Even with my bad experiences with french people, I know I cant just generalize a country just because of these personal experiences. I'm sure a lot of french people are really nice but I just didn't happen to meet one yet.
England and France have been taking shots at each other for centuries. It was once real gun shots they were taking, but now its calmed down to comedy. Most notably probably.. is Al Murray. Though you shouldn't be suprised to see 2 countries with such a long and "colourful" past to be making jokes about each other.
The US making fun of France has always puzzled me. They surrendered to the Nazi's probably because the Nazi's were probably much too strong to fight head on, like they were for almost everywhere else, the difference is the "winning" countries didn't have the Nazi's on their borders. I'd rather they surrendered than take who knows how many casualties. Also iirc the French people fought back hard in the forms of resistances. Besides I'm sure the US has surrendered in wars before.
AMERICA IS NATIONALIST AND IMPERIALIST AND THEY HAVE SMALL PENISES AND THEYRE DIFFERENT THAN US AND AND AND THEY HURT MY FEELINGS.
Please, if we are to discuss something political in nature, let us first have an accurate view on politics, and a good wholesome knowledge of the countries you speak of. Your ethnocentricity is no better than that of an American's.
I dont think any french would disagree with its gov.
I think half the french disagree with their gov.
IS THERE ANY FRENCH WHO DISAGREES WITH ITS GOV ABOUT THE NEW ARMENIAN LAW? pm me or post here
I'm French and I disagree, I think this sort of laws is bad for democracy and freedom of speech. So if I had a chance I would vote no.
Though the Turkey's position is even worst, not recognizing the genocide. 1.5 people killed and the Turkey pretends nothing happened. For me that's even more scandalous than the French law.
So you say 1.5 armenians killed ? what else do you know about this subject?
what they are doing is they drill the idea but dont really explain.
EDIT.. armenian historians refuse to collaborate with turkish. they keep insisting on genocide without documents. the documents are in the army archives but they refused to look at them.
I think it's ridiculous to have a problem with an entire people, though I think regionality can play a part in people's attitudes. I briefly passed through the Alsace-Lorraine region while visiting family in Avenches, and the people were friendly and relaxed. People seemed genuinely excited to meet an "American", and we had some really interesting discussions about politics, religion and sports.
On the other hand, my father was treated very poorly by some of the Parisians when he was there for a weekend. In particular, I remember him telling me about the time he went to a restaurant in the second arrondissement with his girlfriend. The host took one look at them, with my father in his cowboy boots (he loves the fucking things, why I don't know) and his girlfriend with her thick new york accent, and he dumped the two of them at a corner table and never sent anyone to serve them. And my old man wasn't just being impatient - he's been in the restaurant business his entire life, grew up in Basel and trained at the Hotel Euler - so he knows what a reasonable wait for service is. But they completely ignored him until he pulled someone aside and politely asked, in french, for service. And that was just one incident - there was a dozen other times when people made comments or gave him looks because they took him for a yokel american tourist.
So, on the whole, the "french bashing" thing is just a stupid and juvenile source of amusement by people who are too ignorant to come up with true wit. There's no real enmity behind it, unless you're talking about a few backwoods ignoramuses (ignoramii?) who have a natrual predilection for prejudice. That said, I do feel that there's some real enmity on the other side of the pond, at least in the more urban areas. I've only really been through the rural areas in France myself, and all my experiences were positive, but I've been told that there's real enmity towards Americans in Paris and other major cities. So take that for what it's worth.
On January 21 2012 21:23 aTnClouD wrote: Man everyone bash french people as much as they do with americans. They have so many people with strong nationalistic attitude that just pisses off everybody else. I have nothing against these people who believe their country is the absolute best (when it's not), I just think it's silly, but I understand why the world doesn't like these countries.
And the Italians are not?? There live so many Italians in Switzerland who doesn't know our language after 20 fucking years, because they seperate in groups with other Italians and refuse the integrate. And that's not the minority. It's a very Italian thing.
" Our language " ? What's " your language " ? Switzerland doesn't have it's own language.
On January 21 2012 22:29 Chargelot wrote: AMERICA IS NATIONALIST AND IMPERIALIST AND THEY HAVE SMALL PENISES AND THEYRE DIFFERENT THAN US AND AND AND THEY HURT MY FEELINGS.
Please, if we are to discuss something political in nature, let us first have an accurate view on politics, and a good wholesome knowledge of the countries you speak of. Your ethnocentricity is no better than that of an American's.
Well, people tend to have a dislike for everything that stands out, and some people from France tend to do that visibly.
Take for example arxiv.org. I don't know how many people here know this site, but it's basically a plattform to share your scientific research with people from all around the world. I am actively following all the uploads that are done in a certain area of mathematics called "algebraic geometry" and I noticed that there are two groups of people:
1. people from all over the world, uploading their papers (i.e. research articles) on english 2. people from france uploading them in french.
It's just a stereotype that french people can't fight/win wars and everybody makes fun of it because stereotypes lead to great jokes. French are baguette-addicted cowards. Germans are war-driven nazis and also sauerkraut loving work-a-holics. Brits are ugly redheads with a stick up their ass. Italian folks have small weiners. Koreans master every computer game in an instant. Americans are fat, lazy and stupid. Mexicans are lazy work-stealers. Japanese all like tentacle porn and pissing on girls in school uniforms. Chinese work for nearly no money the whole day. Russians are alcoholic communists. People from Switzerland are slow. Dutch are constantly on weed. Scandinavian people are immune to freezing coldness. Brazilians always dance around in funny costumes and shake their ass. Canadians are peaceful as fuck and ice hockey fanatics.... just to mention some stereotypes I can think of. Some of them may be insulting but all of them are a generalization of an entire country, so you should see it as a joke. If someone would really try to bash on someone with these kind of stuff then you can't take im serious because he is utterly retarded. ^^
Oh and just an insight from a French, if you're treated like crap from Parisians, don't think it's because you're a foreigner, they are all assholes.
It's even called "Parisianisme" in France, they think they are better, the elite and everything outside Paris is Stone Age with people making fire with flint stones and people who wouldn't be able to do 1+1.
You'll surely find many french people wanting to go to Paris because of its background but you will pretty much always hear them complain about its inhabitants.
On January 21 2012 21:49 IveReturned wrote: If you make a law that shuts up the people who dont think like you do, you must be an ignorant retard. Thats my opinion about french.
Could you be more precise please ?
Check the country he's from and the political problems between you lately. And Ive, I'd suggest that you don't forget the difference between a people and its gov. (though I was on the side of the frenchies in that one)
I dont think any french would disagree with its gov.
And why would you agree with the prevention of freedom of expression of thought?
Well, I can tell you that many French wouldn't agree with this law. As to why would one agree with limitations of the freedom of speech (generally speaking, not in this case): because speech is sometimes a form of action, and certain actions cannot be accepted, because of their consequences. For instance, defending nazi opinion in France is forbidden, and I agree with that, because expressing nazi opinions is a way to encourage certain kind of behaviours which are in all regards and without any possible doubt dangerous, full of hatred and unacceptable.
So I saw this thread about france bashing through stereotypes in the world... then I saw that you're french... and then I saw your sig Jesus Christ I fell of my chair XD
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
You joking right ?
No, he's right, the fee asked to Germany by France, UK and USA after WW1 and the fact France invade the Rhur (it caused a very hard economic crisis, even before 1929) with murdrers and rapes was enough to give Germans an understandable wish of revenge and lead all Europe, slowly but surely into WW2.
Btw, saying that French didn't fight is wrong, 400 000 soldiers died during the invasion in 1940) the fact France had 1 000 000 soldiers before the war, the fact they didn't help Poland during Blitzkrieg and the government was afraid to make war make many people think that French didn't fight. But it's not 100% true.
There are many documentary about it, check it, it's very intersting.
On topic : Personnaly i don't feel the bashing, there are always some people with clichés in there head (Americans are stupid, Germans are Nazi, Italian are lazy, french are arrogant, etc...)
Hopefully, people who really know these countries and these inhabitants know that it's moslty a cliché than anything else.
French bashing is rare and not really a big deal to me.
On January 21 2012 22:29 Chargelot wrote: AMERICA IS NATIONALIST AND IMPERIALIST AND THEY HAVE SMALL PENISES AND THEYRE DIFFERENT THAN US AND AND AND THEY HURT MY FEELINGS.
Please, if we are to discuss something political in nature, let us first have an accurate view on politics, and a good wholesome knowledge of the countries you speak of. Your ethnocentricity is no better than that of an American's.
What are you talking about?
Read page 1. And page 2. And some of pages 3 and 4.
And I'm not referring only to anti-American sentiments. The Anti-French sentiments are largely opinion-based, using opinions based on random tidbits of information.
On January 21 2012 22:37 secretary bird wrote: I still think bashing the French is a very english/american thing, some people in Europe are very americanized though.
For england its because of the many wars over the centuries and the english never forget when they had a war with another nation.
The US it could be because the french government and people were pretty hostile towards America for decades even though they were allies.
Plus millions of people have only been to Paris and even french people say Parisians are...not very nice.
I think there are some stereotypes that still get used in comedy sometimes ( french cowardice, american ignorance, german love for authority etc.) but outside of the bs that they cooked up after France refused to participate in the Irak war I don't really think it happens outside of drunken bar conversations. It's still there somewhere deep (same as racism and chauvinism) because it feels good to belittle others and "be superior", but if you were to ask anybody honestly, they'd acknowledge that there is nothing to it. The only thing I can relate to is online behavior, in which both French (because, fuck you redcoats we have our own language) and Russians/east Europeans (because wtf is english) refuse to speak a language everybody understands, which I find simply impolite and annoying.
On January 21 2012 21:23 aTnClouD wrote: Man everyone bash french people as much as they do with americans. They have so many people with strong nationalistic attitude that just pisses off everybody else. I have nothing against these people who believe their country is the absolute best (when it's not), I just think it's silly, but I understand why the world doesn't like these countries.
And the Italians are not?? There live so many Italians in Switzerland who doesn't know our language after 20 fucking years, because they seperate in groups with other Italians and refuse the integrate. And that's not the minority. It's a very Italian thing.
" Our language " ? What's " your language " ? Switzerland doesn't have it's own language.
Heh you prove his point
Btw why are so many TL thread turning into US vs the rest?
Normally when you want to get something from your company, you negotiate first, and if negotiations fail, you go on strike. In France, you go on strike first, then negotiate !
I am American and I bash France all the time. It probably isn't justified. It stems from different stories I have heard from people that have visited the country and some French people I have met as well. The biggest thing that probably made me dislike them as a country which probably I admit isn't fair since it generalizes a whole country was a story my father told me. He is retired Navy and they were doing their 6 month tour and when they went to France him and 6 other sailors were jumped by 40+ French guys. They were jumped purely for being Navy.
Their obviously could be more to the story or something. Im sure some people will say thats what they get for the US sticking their nose in other countries etc etc. The way I look at it though is my dad was just providing for his family and was in the Navy as a means to do it. Most US military people you see over seas are not there because they want to be they are their because they were ordered to. The fact that they were jumped for being American makes me not like the country although that is a terrible generalization on my behalf probably. Secondly it goes into the the whole cowardice perception Americans have about France for the fact they jumped 7 men with 40.
Oddly enough I have some French in me. It would come out to around 15% French in my blood. I do hate my self as well though.
On January 21 2012 21:23 aTnClouD wrote: Man everyone bash french people as much as they do with americans. They have so many people with strong nationalistic attitude that just pisses off everybody else. I have nothing against these people who believe their country is the absolute best (when it's not), I just think it's silly, but I understand why the world doesn't like these countries.
And the Italians are not?? There live so many Italians in Switzerland who doesn't know our language after 20 fucking years, because they seperate in groups with other Italians and refuse the integrate. And that's not the minority. It's a very Italian thing.
" Our language " ? What's " your language " ? Switzerland doesn't have it's own language.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
To me it seems like there is waaaaaaaay more bashing of America. Especially when you look at it from the perspective of every country.
And you can't really use George Bush as an example of a politician bashing a country...This guy is famous for saying stupid shit. Apart from going into a war he shouldn't have, sitting idly by as the American econemy went down the toilet and not giving a fuck about global warming, it's basically his only other legacy.
On January 21 2012 22:39 IntoTheheart wrote: They're just fun to bash due to their, "History," of retreating.
IIRC they haven't given up or retreated nearly as much as we make them out to.
Bashing us on WWII has always been pretty harsh.
Sure we were "known" for being the "best" military after the WWI and we should have kicked the Nazis asses when they came in the Ardennes but many things went wrong:
- We didn't really want to go to war after losing so much in the first WW - We didn't hear De Gaulle's appeal to increase the use of tanks instead of using infantry and old war tactics - We were arrogant and ignorant, thinking Hitler wouldn't go through the Ardennes Forest (thus, the ligne Maginot being useless)
Then, well, we got owned and had to go through occupation thanks to those Vichy bastards, Petain being the overmind.
Still, we helped our english allies get back safely to their island during the evacuation of Dunkirk, we had our own french resistance, sabotaging railroads, giving informations to GB, we tried to save jews (don't get me wrong, i'm not talking about the police who brought them into the Velodrome D'hiver and other concentration camps)
But we'll always be known for that war for surrendering, prefering not losing as much as in the first world war.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
one: this is a lie. French participated in this war and lost thousands of cassulties. They fucked up with the phoney war, but its too easy to judge them now, long after the fact. two: they started the war with Germans in defence of other people, not themselves. The same cannot be said about Americans. three: Swedes are not in possition to say something like this.
On January 21 2012 22:37 secretary bird wrote: I still think bashing the French is a very english/american thing, some people in Europe are very americanized though.
For england its because of the many wars over the centuries and the english never forget when they had a war with another nation.
The US it could be because the french government and people were pretty hostile towards America for decades even though they were allies.
Plus millions of people have only been to Paris and even french people say Parisians are...not very nice.
I know all about that, doesnt change my opinion one bit though. The germans practically love France even though France has declared war on them many times. You might like to bash the french but that doesnt make it common.
On January 21 2012 22:39 IntoTheheart wrote: They're just fun to bash due to their, "History," of retreating.
IIRC they haven't given up or retreated nearly as much as we make them out to.
Bashing us on WWII has always been pretty harsh.
Sure we were "known" for being the "best" military after the WWI and we should have kicked the Nazis asses when they came in the Ardennes but many things went wrong:
- We didn't really want to go to war after losing so much in the first WW - We didn't hear De Gaulle's appeal to increase the use of tanks instead of using infantry and old war tactics - We were arrogant and ignorant, thinking Hitler wouldn't go through the Ardennes Forest (thus, the ligne Maginot being useless)
Then, well, we got owned and had to go through occupation thanks to those Vichy bastards, Petain being the overmind.
Still, we helped our english allies get back safely to their island during the evacuation of Dunkirk, we had our own french resistance, sabotaging railroads, giving informations to GB, we tried to save jews (don't get me wrong, i'm not talking about the police who brought them into the Velodrome D'hiver and other concentration camps)
But we'll always be known for that war for surrendering, prefering not losing as much as in the first world war.
Yeeeah. I mean in the end, with the current obsession over WWII and Hitler etc, the countries might always be forced to remember (which isn't bad), but sometimes it feels like countries are being forced back to their roles several decades ago (which IS bad).
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
one: this is a lie. French participated in this war and lost thousands of cassulties. They fucked up with the phoney war, but its too easy to judge them now, long after the fact. two: they started the war with Germans in defence of other people, not themselves. The same cannot be said about Americans. three: Swedes are not in possition to say something like this.
We were not declared war on, we were not counted on, we were not part of ww1, we wern't allied with anyone etc.
Look, I'm not saying that it's my opinion, I'm just rationalizing. I'm neutral when it comes to France and French. Only been to Paris once, and the only thing I remember that was any particular was the architecture and that there was a lot of porn on the streets
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
You French did not cause WW2...
What the fuck.
Well their treatment of the Germans after the first world war(which every country in europe started back then), especially in terms of reparations(going into German facilities and simply TAKING stuff, while shooting Germans who protested against that in some cases) basically guaranteed that there'll be another war together with the treaty of Versaille
You do understand that, after the destruction brought by the Germans and its allies during WWI, we were quite right about asking for some kind of refund and trying to stop Germany from having an army, right?
The war was only there because of Hitler, sure loads of veterans and germans hated the diktat, I'm pretty sure they didn't want 60 millions of people dying and their country destroyed for more than 50 years.
This is false too. The Diktat was the very reason a second war started. I mean come on, we're both French, I'm sure you remember your high school history lessons. I sure do.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
Open a history book, maybe?
What do you disagree with?
French causing WW2 maybe? I mean, it's wrong on so many levels I feel someone is trying to tell me the earth was square.
Sure, France lost, plainly and simply, the war. But how is that the cause of the war itself? What kind of odd twisted logic is this?
Edit: I mean, shall I remind you that Swede was neutral during the conflict and collaborated with the Wehrmach in many occasions?
I think people are way to sensitive about things. I don't know about other countries but in america we give our friends way more shit than we give our enemies. But its all in good fun. If you have thin skin you are gonna have a rough life. Toughen up.
I love France. I was in a relationship with a French girl for a handful of years and visited it a few time. For reasons I won't bother going into, I never learned French, so I missed out on direct communication with the culture. However, what I was able to experience, I loved every bit of.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
Open a history book, maybe?
What do you disagree with?
Everything is true except the fact that France caused WW2
WW2 started because Germany invaded Poland.
edit 2: Well, it's also wrong that France didn't fight in WW2. They fought, obviously, but they got stomped really quickly
Another thing that is funny is that a study by National Geographic showed that France is the country with the best win/lost battle ratio (~150/50, thanks to the French Army centuries ago, Napoleon and Middle Age mostly) :p
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
You French did not cause WW2...
What the fuck.
Well their treatment of the Germans after the first world war(which every country in europe started back then), especially in terms of reparations(going into German facilities and simply TAKING stuff, while shooting Germans who protested against that in some cases) basically guaranteed that there'll be another war together with the treaty of Versaille
You do understand that, after the destruction brought by the Germans and its allies during WWI, we were quite right about asking for some kind of refund and trying to stop Germany from having an army, right?
The war was only there because of Hitler, sure loads of veterans and germans hated the diktat, I'm pretty sure they didn't want 60 millions of people dying and their country destroyed for more than 50 years.
This is false too. The Diktat was the very reason a second war started. I mean come on, we're both French, I'm sure you remember your high school history lessons. I sure do.
Losing 4.5% of your population, having more than 5 other % wounded and having your country ravaged. It was pretty normal we wanted some way to secure ourselves. Asking for no military, getting back Alsace-Lorraine, asking for huge amounts of money.
That's what you do when you win, you want the opponent to not be able to strike back. I don't have to remember you who started this war.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
one: this is a lie. French participated in this war and lost thousands of cassulties. They fucked up with the phoney war, but its too easy to judge them now, long after the fact. two: they started the war with Germans in defence of other people, not themselves. The same cannot be said about Americans. three: Swedes are not in possition to say something like this.
France had half the military losses (~200K) than the US during WW2, most of it over a couple of weeks during German's invasion. But people always forget stuff if Hollywood doesn't make a good action movie on the topic.
It is even more "funny" for the Vietnam. Nobody gives a fuck about that war in France but military losses were higher than the US lol.
On January 21 2012 22:42 All.In wrote: I am American and I bash France all the time. It probably isn't justified. It stems from different stories I have heard from people that have visited the country and some French people I have met as well. The biggest thing that probably made me dislike them as a country which probably I admit isn't fair since it generalizes a whole country was a story my father told me. He is retired Navy and they were doing their 6 month tour and when they went to France him and 6 other sailors were jumped by 40+ French guys. They were jumped purely for being Navy.
Their obviously could be more to the story or something. Im sure some people will say thats what they get for the US sticking their nose in other countries etc etc. The way I look at it though is my dad was just providing for his family and was in the Navy as a means to do it. Most US military people you see over seas are not there because they want to be they are their because they were ordered to. The fact that they were jumped for being American makes me not like the country although that is a terrible generalization on my behalf probably. Secondly it goes into the the whole cowardice perception Americans have about France for the fact they jumped 7 men with 40.
Oddly enough I have some French in me. It would come out to around 15% French in my blood. I do hate my self as well though.
Policemen / black / white / asian / christians / atheists / muslim people also get jumped in every country in the world, doesn't mean that we have to generalize.
Hating yourself because you are x% french is dumb though.
On January 21 2012 22:41 Monsen wrote: I think there are some stereotypes that still get used in comedy sometimes ( french cowardice, american ignorance, german love for authority etc.) but outside of the bs that they cooked up after France refused to participate in the Irak war I don't really think it happens outside of drunken bar conversations. It's still there somewhere deep (same as racism and chauvinism) because it feels good to belittle others and "be superior", but if you were to ask anybody honestly, they'd acknowledge that there is nothing to it. The only thing I can relate to is online behavior, in which both French (because, fuck you redcoats we have our own language) and Russians/east Europeans (because wtf is english) refuse to speak a language everybody understands, which I find simply impolite and annoying.
Good point.
I'm not really sure we "refuse" to learn another language. But it defenitly looks like.
We are very very bad in foreign languages. And i don't understand why. I mean...i learned german from 12 to 18 yo, english from 14 to 20, from 20 to now (i'm 32 yo) i traveled, i read english website, i work in computing so i spend my life reading and writing english and (as you can read it on TL ^^) i'm stay very very bad
I don't know, bad teaching, bad students, wrong english learning methode. It's a mistery to me. We're just bad...and you nver read my german, it's worth !
I was just at Jimmy Johns, a midwestern sandwich store that recently expanded to my town on the east coast. They have a sign that says "bread so french, it must be liberated".
Hmm im German and I've never heard an American bashing France. In Germany, the only thing everyone jokes about is this: When you visit France and try communicate in English, everybody will answer in French and be rude. On the other hand, if you know one phrase in French, everyone will switch to English or (in our case) German and be nice^^
On January 21 2012 22:57 kekstier wrote: Hmm im German and I've never heard an American bashing France. In Germany, the only thing everyone jokes about is this: When you visit France and try communicate in English, everybody will answer in French and be rude.
On January 21 2012 22:54 Nightshake wrote: Another thing that is funny is that a study by National Geographic showed that France is the country with the best win/lost battle ratio (~150/50, thanks to the French Army centuries ago, Napoleon and Middle Age mostly) :p
Yeah, this. 162:62:10 (how do you have a tie in war..?).
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
one: this is a lie. French participated in this war and lost thousands of cassulties. They fucked up with the phoney war, but its too easy to judge them now, long after the fact. two: they started the war with Germans in defence of other people, not themselves. The same cannot be said about Americans. three: Swedes are not in possition to say something like this.
France had half the military losses (~200K) than the US during WW2, most of it over a couple of weeks during German's invasion. But people always forget stuff if Hollywood doesn't make a good action movie on the topic.
It is even more "funny" for the Vietnam. Nobody gives a fuck about that war in France but military losses were higher than the US lol.
Don't get me wrong here but I'll use Wikipedia to give the numbers of casualties in the Battle of France:
France: According to the Defence Historical Service, 85,310 killed (including 5,400 Maghrebis), 12,000 missing, 120,000 wounded and 1,540,000 captured (including 67,400 Maghrebis).
And the overall casualties for the Battle of France only, Allies: 2.2 millions, Axis: 165k.
You can pretty much assume that it was probably better to put a stop to this pretty fast.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
Open a history book, maybe?
What do you disagree with?
French causing WW2 maybe? I mean, it's wrong on so many levels I feel someone is trying to tell me the earth was square.
Sure, France lost, plainly and simply, the war. But how is that the cause of the war itself? What kind of odd twisted logic is this?
Edit: I mean, shall I remind you that Swede was neutral during the conflict and collaborated with the Wehrmach in many occasions?
Peace of versailles. The massive debt put on Germany after WW1 was illadviced, and caused a massive meltdown of the German economy that lasted until WW2 basically. That combined with the French pillage made Hitler's promise of revenge popular enough to rise to power. The lust for revenge was central in Hitler's ideology, and is mainly what made it so popular.
I dont think any french would disagree with its gov.
I think half the french disagree with their gov.
IS THERE ANY FRENCH WHO DISAGREES WITH ITS GOV ABOUT THE NEW ARMENIAN LAW? pm me or post here
btw what is shoah?
you're serious ?
Is my education in english, or am I french? wtf do you expect ! soa doesnt have a meaning in my language.
I think he was referring to your rather ignorant question (in all caps). It's not obvious to you, if you just read the replies of French people in this thread that a quite substantial amount of French people disagree with their current government?
Everyone likes to feel like their country is superior. A lot of the time we do that by setting arbitrary standards and ignore everything else.
- Russia beats USA at pretty much every "first" in regards to the space program -> landing on moon is what counts. - France has a thousand-year history of bloody wars after bloody wars -> WWII is the only one that counts. - USA produces many of today's greatest scientists -> some redneck at wal-mart doesn't know the name of the continents (that's what counts)
It's best not to take it too seriously. It's like high school, everyone's insecure and takes potshots out of each other to feel better. As long as it doesn't escalate in violence, it's easy to ignore.
On January 21 2012 23:02 Back wrote: - USA produces many of today's greatest scientists -> some redneck at wal-mart doesn't know the name of the continents (that's what counts)
It doesnt. Nearly all of the great scientists at American universities are foreign born and educated.
On January 21 2012 23:02 Back wrote: - USA produces many of today's greatest scientists -> some redneck at wal-mart doesn't know the name of the continents (that's what counts)
It doesnt. Nearly all of the great scientists at American universities are foreign born and educated.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
Open a history book, maybe?
What do you disagree with?
French causing WW2 maybe? I mean, it's wrong on so many levels I feel someone is trying to tell me the earth was square.
Sure, France lost, plainly and simply, the war. But how is that the cause of the war itself? What kind of odd twisted logic is this?
Edit: I mean, shall I remind you that Swede was neutral during the conflict and collaborated with the Wehrmach in many occasions?
Peace of versailles. The massive debt put on Germany after WW1 was illadviced, and caused a massive meltdown of the German economy that lasted until WW2 basically. That combined with the French pillage made Hitler's promise of revenge popular enough to rise to power. The lust for revenge was central in Hitler's ideology, and is mainly what made it so popular.
Oh come on, everyone bashes everyone, it's not limited to US vs France. Everything said here, except that WWII bs, can be said for almost any country. My take on the education system is that it actually is okay, but there're only incredibly lazy students who refuse to study. Classe préparatoire is a good system where student willing to work a bit actually succeed.
I don't mind all the bashing stuff we get, I like to bash the americans too, like everyone else right ? lol There's nationalistic idiot everywhere, look around.
French are not cowards, in fact France has one of the most violent histories in the world, waging war after war against every neighbour, and even against most of Europe during Napoleonic times. It is utterly false to say that the french have a history of losing or retreating. In medieval times the english court spoke french as the ruling dynasty was Norman; the Frank kingdom was one of the most powerful at the time; and so was the French kingdom during the Renaissance, and during the Lumières, too. French patriots ousted all foreign troops when a coalition tried to restore the French royalty, while severely outnumbered. Historians have given France the nickname of the "European China", because of its huge population during medieval times. Even the 100-year war wasn't a conflict between France and England, but mostly between two dynasties, and the side of the Valois (France) was vastly outnumbered by the attacks of Burgandy, Brittany, Flanders and Portugal.
But the French army was humiliated during WW2, and even before that in 1870, and the peaceful statu quo carved this in stone. This is very bad for national pride, you know?
On January 21 2012 23:09 MandoRelease wrote: Oh come on, everyone bashes everyone, it's not limited to US vs France. Everything said here, except that WWII bs, can be said for almost any country. My take on the education system is that it actually is okay, but there're only incredibly lazy students who refuse to study. Classe préparatoire is actually a good system where student willing to work a bit actually succeed.
I don't mind all the bashing stuff we get, I like to bash the americans too, like everyone else right ? lol There's nationalistic idiot everywhere, look around.
Canadians bash everyone. Mainly the Brits from what I've noticed. Or maybe it's because most of my friends are descendants of Brits.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
You joking right ?
treaty of versailles. quite a lot of historians agree that France was being way too harsh on Germany with this treaty while USA and UK wanted to give Germany a chance to get back up in economy and trade with them, France wanted Germany dead, taking away Germany's most productive lands and setting a huge war bill for them to repay. Not to mention the treaty basically blamed Germans for all the guilts and had to bear the shame of having little to none army size.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
uhhh wat lol
I don't know if he meant it seriously, but as a satire it is pretty good. Considering how Americans think everybody envies them
On January 21 2012 23:02 Back wrote: - USA produces many of today's greatest scientists -> some redneck at wal-mart doesn't know the name of the continents (that's what counts)
It doesnt. Nearly all of the great scientists at American universities are foreign born and educated.
Even still, the fact that the education is good can't be a point AGAINST America.
Higher education and specialized formation has to be centered somewhere. America is convenient because it's big and has a lot of money. In general, the education in America (undergraduate) is about as good as in the rest of the world.
Btw, I really feel bad for all the French here thinking our educationnal system suck. I come from a poor family and am now in the best engineering school in France, being paid around 800€ a month just to study, without having anything to give back. Just because I proved through French examinations that I deserved it. I don't think there's a lot of countries where you have that kind of opportunities, and you can have access to the higher education in your country without ever having to pay anything.
On January 21 2012 23:10 Kukaracha wrote: Okay, so here's my "manly history" moment.
French are not cowards, in fact France has one of the most violent histories in the world, waging war after war against every neighbour, and even against most of Europe during Napoleonic times. It is utterly false to say that the french have a history of losing or retreating. In medieval times the english court spoke french as the ruling dynasty was Norman; the Frank kingdom was one of the most powerful at the time; and so was the French kingdom during the Renaissance, and during the Lumières, too. French patriots ousted all foreign troops when a coalition tried to restore the French royalty, while severely outnumbered. Historians have given France the nickname of the "European China", because of its huge population during medieval times. Even the 100-year war wasn't a conflict between France and England, but mostly between two dynasties, and the side of the Valois (France) was vastly outnumbered by the attacks of Burgandy, Brittany, Flanders and Portugal.
But the French army was humiliated during WW2, and even before that in 1870, and the peaceful statu quo carved this in stone. This is very bad for national pride, you know?
I always find it incredibly frustrating when people push forward the BS stereotype that the French are cowards and always lose. The French have probably had just as much conflict as any other European region, and I can only remember two wars that the French actually lost (Franco-Prussian and Napoleon's reign ended in defeat, but hell that doesn't even count as a loss). Not only that, France came up with the greatest military general in earth's history and the largest mainland European empire in the world's history (Napoleon the Great).
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
Open a history book, maybe?
What do you disagree with?
French causing WW2 maybe? I mean, it's wrong on so many levels I feel someone is trying to tell me the earth was square.
Sure, France lost, plainly and simply, the war. But how is that the cause of the war itself? What kind of odd twisted logic is this?
Edit: I mean, shall I remind you that Swede was neutral during the conflict and collaborated with the Wehrmach in many occasions?
Peace of versailles. The massive debt put on Germany after WW1 was illadviced, and caused a massive meltdown of the German economy that lasted until WW2 basically. That combined with the French pillage made Hitler's promise of revenge popular enough to rise to power. The lust for revenge was central in Hitler's ideology, and is mainly what made it so popular.
Well tell me, was this a decision made by the French people, a consequence of the behaviour of the French army, or simply a consequence of Clemenceau's political views, and his alone?
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
Open a history book, maybe?
What do you disagree with?
French causing WW2 maybe? I mean, it's wrong on so many levels I feel someone is trying to tell me the earth was square.
Sure, France lost, plainly and simply, the war. But how is that the cause of the war itself? What kind of odd twisted logic is this?
Edit: I mean, shall I remind you that Swede was neutral during the conflict and collaborated with the Wehrmach in many occasions?
Peace of versailles. The massive debt put on Germany after WW1 was illadviced, and caused a massive meltdown of the German economy that lasted until WW2 basically. That combined with the French pillage made Hitler's promise of revenge popular enough to rise to power. The lust for revenge was central in Hitler's ideology, and is mainly what made it so popular.
Well tell me, was this a decision made by the French people, a consequence of the behaviour of the French army, or simply a consequence of Clemenceau's political views, and his alone?
There was a sizable French population that were anti-German to the point where they wanted France to immediately go back to war with the Germans even prior to WWI. They were very, very bitter about the Franco-Prussian War.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
You French did not cause WW2...
What the fuck.
Well their treatment of the Germans after the first world war(which every country in europe started back then), especially in terms of reparations(going into German facilities and simply TAKING stuff, while shooting Germans who protested against that in some cases) basically guaranteed that there'll be another war together with the treaty of Versaille
You do understand that, after the destruction brought by the Germans and its allies during WWI, we were quite right about asking for some kind of refund and trying to stop Germany from having an army, right?
The war was only there because of Hitler, sure loads of veterans and germans hated the diktat, I'm pretty sure they didn't want 60 millions of people dying and their country destroyed for more than 50 years.
This is false too. The Diktat was the very reason a second war started. I mean come on, we're both French, I'm sure you remember your high school history lessons. I sure do.
Losing 4.5% of your population, having more than 5 other % wounded and having your country ravaged. It was pretty normal we wanted some way to secure ourselves. Asking for no military, getting back Alsace-Lorraine, asking for huge amounts of money.
That's what you do when you win, you want the opponent to not be able to strike back. I don't have to remember you who started this war.
Do you realize the debt lasted until 2010? There's a difference between securing a victory and securing the everlasting obliteration of the enemy.
On January 21 2012 23:02 Back wrote: - USA produces many of today's greatest scientists -> some redneck at wal-mart doesn't know the name of the continents (that's what counts)
It doesnt. Nearly all of the great scientists at American universities are foreign born and educated.
Even still, the fact that the education is good can't be a point AGAINST America.
Higher education and specialized formation has to be centered somewhere. America is convenient because it's big and has a lot of money. In general, the education in America (undergraduate) is about as good as in the rest of the world.
Btw, I really feel bad for all the French here thinking our educationnal system suck. I come from a poor family and am now in the best engineering school in France, being paid around 800€ a month just to study, without having anything to give back. Just because I proved through French examinations that I deserved it. I don't think there's a lot of countries where you have that kind of opportunities, and you can have access to the higher education in your country without ever having to pay anything.
Without ever having to pay anything ? When you come from a poor family maybe, because the French system regarding scholarship and taxe reduction is ludicrous, for the rest of us, one actually has to pay a bit. Not that much over the course of a year, admittedly, but still a decent amount.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
Open a history book, maybe?
What do you disagree with?
French causing WW2 maybe? I mean, it's wrong on so many levels I feel someone is trying to tell me the earth was square.
Sure, France lost, plainly and simply, the war. But how is that the cause of the war itself? What kind of odd twisted logic is this?
Edit: I mean, shall I remind you that Swede was neutral during the conflict and collaborated with the Wehrmach in many occasions?
Peace of versailles. The massive debt put on Germany after WW1 was illadviced, and caused a massive meltdown of the German economy that lasted until WW2 basically. That combined with the French pillage made Hitler's promise of revenge popular enough to rise to power. The lust for revenge was central in Hitler's ideology, and is mainly what made it so popular.
Well tell me, was this a decision made by the French people, a consequence of the behaviour of the French army, or simply a consequence of Clemenceau's political views, and his alone?
There was a sizable French population that were anti-German to the point where they wanted France to immediately go back to war with the Germans even prior to WWI. They were very, very bitter about the Franco-Prussian War.
This raises an interesting point; if the french caused WW2, then didn't the germans push them to do so by provoking France into a war simply to... unify Germany (1870)?
On January 21 2012 22:37 secretary bird wrote: I still think bashing the French is a very english/american thing, some people in Europe are very americanized though.
For england its because of the many wars over the centuries and the english never forget when they had a war with another nation.
The US it could be because the french government and people were pretty hostile towards America for decades even though they were allies.
Plus millions of people have only been to Paris and even french people say Parisians are...not very nice.
I know all about that, doesnt change my opinion one bit though. The germans practically love France even though France has declared war on them many times. You might like to bash the french but that doesnt make it common.
WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT SHIT? Just kidding, though I live in northrhinewestphalia and although I live on the eastern end of it that state is pretty close to france and the general opinion of them here isn't very good compared to other countries(it's not like we hate them or even dislike them, but I think pretty much everybody 200kms around me would put a dane above a frenchie)
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
You French did not cause WW2...
What the fuck.
Well their treatment of the Germans after the first world war(which every country in europe started back then), especially in terms of reparations(going into German facilities and simply TAKING stuff, while shooting Germans who protested against that in some cases) basically guaranteed that there'll be another war together with the treaty of Versaille
You do understand that, after the destruction brought by the Germans and its allies during WWI, we were quite right about asking for some kind of refund and trying to stop Germany from having an army, right?
The war was only there because of Hitler, sure loads of veterans and germans hated the diktat, I'm pretty sure they didn't want 60 millions of people dying and their country destroyed for more than 50 years.
This is false too. The Diktat was the very reason a second war started. I mean come on, we're both French, I'm sure you remember your high school history lessons. I sure do.
Losing 4.5% of your population, having more than 5 other % wounded and having your country ravaged. It was pretty normal we wanted some way to secure ourselves. Asking for no military, getting back Alsace-Lorraine, asking for huge amounts of money.
That's what you do when you win, you want the opponent to not be able to strike back. I don't have to remember you who started this war.
Do you realize the debt lasted until 2010? There's a difference between securing a victory and securing the everlasting obliteration of the enemy.
Everlasting WHAT??? So what the fuck invaded us in 1939? UN Security Forces? 1 milion of zombies? Or that was just a fucking Zerg rush? French given up most of claims towards the Germany since 1919, Germany could have even their own army.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
Open a history book, maybe?
What do you disagree with?
French causing WW2 maybe? I mean, it's wrong on so many levels I feel someone is trying to tell me the earth was square.
Sure, France lost, plainly and simply, the war. But how is that the cause of the war itself? What kind of odd twisted logic is this?
Edit: I mean, shall I remind you that Swede was neutral during the conflict and collaborated with the Wehrmach in many occasions?
Peace of versailles. The massive debt put on Germany after WW1 was illadviced, and caused a massive meltdown of the German economy that lasted until WW2 basically. That combined with the French pillage made Hitler's promise of revenge popular enough to rise to power. The lust for revenge was central in Hitler's ideology, and is mainly what made it so popular.
Well tell me, was this a decision made by the French people, a consequence of the behaviour of the French army, or simply a consequence of Clemenceau's political views, and his alone?
He was elected. Like Hitler; It's true, humiliation after WWI was the worth possible idea and killed the young republic of Weimach. We started them, helped by UK and USA (thats the reason why Hilter used to hate these countries too)
On January 21 2012 21:49 IveReturned wrote: If you make a law that shuts up the people who dont think like you do, you must be an ignorant retard. Thats my opinion about french.
And you just made yourself look inhumane / amoral / absolutely unrepentant.
Australians will admit that in the past, we did NOT treat the aboriginals of this land well. We bullied them and absolutely wrecked them. But now reparations are being made. Much emphasis is placed in every institution to improve the lives of Aboriginals.
Turks? At least admit things were done in the past. Denying history makes you look like the Japanese - who also have a terrible record of lying to people's faces about the junk they did in the past. The US's occupation of Japan post 1945 is also disgraceful, but let's not go into that.
I agree whole-heartedly with what MrTolkien said about the French education system. It is flawed, yes, but it is still pretty good. Its ideals of equal opportunity for everyone are one of the things that make France a great country.
On the French bashing "debate", I don't mind it. When it is from comedians, I usually enjoy the jokes about our accent, our supposed cowardice, our hygiene... When it is from a retarded redneck who doesn't like anyone if they don't go to the same church he does every sunday, well, i just feel pity for him.
We also have our "rednecks" in France who are never short of totally ignorant anti-America(n) ideas, and well, that's what they are, ignorant.
It does seem like if you watch The Daily Show or follow American politics a bit you get a distinct impression the French are okay to mock and make fun of. The most hateful thing a republican can say is to say a democrat looks French, has a French-sounding name etc.
I think some use French as short for a bunch of stereotypes, namely 1. socialist 2. coward 3. elitist/refined 4. arrogant 5. stealing your women. I think because of all the tension with them not supporting the Iraq War and the WWII history we're all apparently still obsessed by. (like seriously, I live in the Netherlands, we were one of the worst countries as far as the Holocaust goes, we had a lot of civilian and military casualties, we still have two remembrance days every year, it's the central feature in our history education system - yet nobody here cares to drag up dumb old incidents or holds it against the Germans. Move on people. >.< )
Well americans are stuck in 1945 on those jokes , on ppl talking about pearl harbor when the japanese earthquake happened etc so ...and well nightshake statement on p1 is true too.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
Open a history book, maybe?
What do you disagree with?
French causing WW2 maybe? I mean, it's wrong on so many levels I feel someone is trying to tell me the earth was square.
Sure, France lost, plainly and simply, the war. But how is that the cause of the war itself? What kind of odd twisted logic is this?
Edit: I mean, shall I remind you that Swede was neutral during the conflict and collaborated with the Wehrmach in many occasions?
Peace of versailles. The massive debt put on Germany after WW1 was illadviced, and caused a massive meltdown of the German economy that lasted until WW2 basically. That combined with the French pillage made Hitler's promise of revenge popular enough to rise to power. The lust for revenge was central in Hitler's ideology, and is mainly what made it so popular.
Well tell me, was this a decision made by the French people, a consequence of the behaviour of the French army, or simply a consequence of Clemenceau's political views, and his alone?
He was elected. Like Hitler; It's true, humiliation after WWI was the worth possible idea and killed the young republic of Weimach. We started them, helped by UK and USA (thats the reason why Hilter used to hate these countries too)
No, he was appointed by Poincaré (who was the elected president).
As someone who was born in France and lived for 10 years in the USA and is now living in France, bashing France originated after France refused to invade Iraq with the USA. This was just after 9/11 and invading the terrorist stronghold seemed like the right thing to do. America wanted retribution for 9/11. When they heard that France wasn't going to help them invade, they labelled us as cowards, basing it on the fact that we were steam-rolled in WW2 and that even now, we wouldn't go to war. Cheesy surrendering monkeys, that was a popular term in the press at the time. So bashing us and calling us cowards became a fun stereotype, even after USA's population finally saw that the war in Iraq was retarded. Of course things have changed and most Americans seem to have laid back on the name calling.
I still remember a funny anecdote that I'm still not sure how I feel about. I was 11 or 12 at the time and my friend was teasing me about being French (it was really teasing, nothing nasty about it). I decided to go complain to the bus driver about how she was teasing me, the bus driver being a friend of mine. Upon hearing me talking about how my friend should stop teasing me, the bus driver sort of angrily exploded about how the French were cowards who wouldn't go to war, damn the French, etc, etc. The bus driver had no idea I was French, since I'd lived in the USA since I was two years old and I was almost more American than French. Anyway, this bummed the shit out of me and I went back to my seat, crying. My friend was also bummed out about it and when her stop came she told the bus driver that I was French before getting off. The bus driver realized what he'd said and when my turn came to get off the bus he talked a bit about how he had once been to France and it was a beautiful country. I was kinda touched that he valued not being a dick to a buddy more than his hate for France being cowards. Today I still have a good memory of that bus driver.
All in all it makes me think that the animosity between our countries really isn't that big a deal, mostly just teasing. At least today. Back in 2002-2004 it definitely wasn't the case. We ourselves respect Americans and their life styles (big cars, big lawns, all those stereotypes) yet we also make fun of some of their silly aspects. Like some of the things people sue for. ^^
That said I still get annoyed when I see people on the internet bashing France. I've seen this on TL as well. I of course never say anything, because there's simply nothing to be gained from it. Ignorant fools, what can I say. ;(
On January 21 2012 23:10 Kukaracha wrote: Okay, so here's my "manly history" moment.
French are not cowards, in fact France has one of the most violent histories in the world, waging war after war against every neighbour, and even against most of Europe during Napoleonic times. It is utterly false to say that the french have a history of losing or retreating. In medieval times the english court spoke french as the ruling dynasty was Norman; the Frank kingdom was one of the most powerful at the time; and so was the French kingdom during the Renaissance, and during the Lumières, too. French patriots ousted all foreign troops when a coalition tried to restore the French royalty, while severely outnumbered. Historians have given France the nickname of the "European China", because of its huge population during medieval times. Even the 100-year war wasn't a conflict between France and England, but mostly between two dynasties, and the side of the Valois (France) was vastly outnumbered by the attacks of Burgandy, Brittany, Flanders and Portugal.
But the French army was humiliated during WW2, and even before that in 1870, and the peaceful statu quo carved this in stone. This is very bad for national pride, you know?
I always find it incredibly frustrating when people push forward the BS stereotype that the French are cowards and always lose. The French have probably had just as much conflict as any other European region, and I can only remember two wars that the French actually lost (Franco-Prussian and Napoleon's reign ended in defeat, but hell that doesn't even count as a loss). Not only that, France came up with the greatest military general in earth's history and the largest mainland European empire in the world's history (Napoleon the Great).
Actually having a bloody history is something negative in terms of manliness. Yeah I know that sounds like it doesn't make sense, but see it this way. Throughout history there have been badasses who nobody dared to fuck with, like the spartans in their hardcore period, although technically they've been constantly in war since they declared war every year on their slaves(yep). Or the Prussians, after the Soldier king modernized their army. That people wage wars on you actually just means that their leaders are idiots (French-Prussian-War) or that they think that they could win against you.
PS: Napoleon as the greatest military genius of the world?lol Oh and he was Italian(Corsica) and only rose so high because he was discriminated for being small and speaking with a weird accent as a child.
On January 21 2012 21:37 Al Bundy wrote: I am french. Sometimes I think that people are right to bash us. I'm going to generalize a bit here, but it's undeniable that some of us are chauvinistic, pretentious, uneducated assholes. Not to mention we can't behave when abroad, and that's really unfortunate because everytime I go abroad, I think man our reputation definitely precedes us. I'm kind of tired having to pay for my fellow Frenchmen's incongruous behavior.
I am American. Sometimes I think that people are right to bash us. I'm going to generalize a bit here, but it's undeniable that some of us are chauvinistic, pretentious, uneducated assholes. Not to mention we can't behave when abroad, and that's really unfortunate because everytime I go abroad, I think man our reputation definitely precedes us. I'm kind of tired having to pay for my fellow Americans' incongruous behavior.
In other words, there are always going to be the black sheep that you can pick out and make fun of. There will always be stereotypes an uneducated people to make the rest of us look bad, even in the esports/starcraft community. The best we can do is just follow the golden rule.
In every nation you can point out flaws with any particular group of people. This thread serves no purpose other then for european countries to circle suck themselves while bashing americans. What point if any does that serve...
On January 21 2012 23:02 Back wrote: - USA produces many of today's greatest scientists -> some redneck at wal-mart doesn't know the name of the continents (that's what counts)
It doesnt. Nearly all of the great scientists at American universities are foreign born and educated.
Even still, the fact that the education is good can't be a point AGAINST America.
Higher education and specialized formation has to be centered somewhere. America is convenient because it's big and has a lot of money. In general, the education in America (undergraduate) is about as good as in the rest of the world.
Btw, I really feel bad for all the French here thinking our educationnal system suck. I come from a poor family and am now in the best engineering school in France, being paid around 800€ a month just to study, without having anything to give back. Just because I proved through French examinations that I deserved it. I don't think there's a lot of countries where you have that kind of opportunities, and you can have access to the higher education in your country without ever having to pay anything.
Without ever having to pay anything ? When you come from a poor family maybe, because the French system regarding scholarship and taxe reduction is ludicrous, for the rest of us, one actually has to pay a bit. Not that much over the course of a year, admittedly, but still a decent amount.
I went into a pure public formation, elementary school, middle school, high school, classe préparatoire, Polytechnique. Never, ever, payed a single € for my formation. And I never had a scolarship.
But yeah, if you want to go to the university, the French educational system is not that awesome. It's way more centered around Grandes Écoles regarding scientific training (which is the formation usually used as a benchmark).
i have had 5 years of french in school now 4 hours each week and it's soooo bad
not saying that german is a better language because german is also quite bad but if you compare english to french... i mean they have different grammatic types of questions JUST BECAUSE IT SOUNDS BETTER .come on
On January 21 2012 23:10 Kukaracha wrote: Okay, so here's my "manly history" moment.
French are not cowards, in fact France has one of the most violent histories in the world, waging war after war against every neighbour, and even against most of Europe during Napoleonic times. It is utterly false to say that the french have a history of losing or retreating. In medieval times the english court spoke french as the ruling dynasty was Norman; the Frank kingdom was one of the most powerful at the time; and so was the French kingdom during the Renaissance, and during the Lumières, too. French patriots ousted all foreign troops when a coalition tried to restore the French royalty, while severely outnumbered. Historians have given France the nickname of the "European China", because of its huge population during medieval times. Even the 100-year war wasn't a conflict between France and England, but mostly between two dynasties, and the side of the Valois (France) was vastly outnumbered by the attacks of Burgandy, Brittany, Flanders and Portugal.
But the French army was humiliated during WW2, and even before that in 1870, and the peaceful statu quo carved this in stone. This is very bad for national pride, you know?
I always find it incredibly frustrating when people push forward the BS stereotype that the French are cowards and always lose. The French have probably had just as much conflict as any other European region, and I can only remember two wars that the French actually lost (Franco-Prussian and Napoleon's reign ended in defeat, but hell that doesn't even count as a loss). Not only that, France came up with the greatest military general in earth's history and the largest mainland European empire in the world's history (Napoleon the Great).
Actually having a bloody history is something negative in terms of manliness. Yeah I know that sounds like it doesn't make sense, but see it this way. Throughout history there have been badasses who nobody dared to fuck with, like the spartans in their hardcore period, although technically they've been constantly in war since they declared war every year on their slaves(yep). Or the Prussians, after the Soldier king modernized their army. That people wage wars on you actually just means that their leaders are idiots (French-Prussian-War) or that they think that they could win against you.
PS: Napoleon as the greatest military genius of the world?lol Oh and he was Italian(Corsica) and only rose so high because he was discriminated for being small and speaking with a weird accent as a child.
It's not about manliness, it's about the fact that the French have never been cowards. And yes, Napoleon was one of the greatest (if not the greatest) military leaders of all time. And he was of Italian ancestry, but was born in French territory (Corsica was French territory at the time of his birth) and spent his whole life as a Frenchman. Just because I'm of dominantly Irish and German ancestry doesn't make me a non-American. His circumstances are completely irrelevant when talking about his nationality.
I just see it as somewhat friendly rivalry. I think there are a decent amount French people that legitimately don't like Americans though, but that's obviously just minor racism. Most of the time it's just banter. We share heritage with the English, so we're always going to take England's side on things, including making fun of the french.
On January 21 2012 23:10 Kukaracha wrote: Okay, so here's my "manly history" moment.
French are not cowards, in fact France has one of the most violent histories in the world, waging war after war against every neighbour, and even against most of Europe during Napoleonic times. It is utterly false to say that the french have a history of losing or retreating. In medieval times the english court spoke french as the ruling dynasty was Norman; the Frank kingdom was one of the most powerful at the time; and so was the French kingdom during the Renaissance, and during the Lumières, too. French patriots ousted all foreign troops when a coalition tried to restore the French royalty, while severely outnumbered. Historians have given France the nickname of the "European China", because of its huge population during medieval times. Even the 100-year war wasn't a conflict between France and England, but mostly between two dynasties, and the side of the Valois (France) was vastly outnumbered by the attacks of Burgandy, Brittany, Flanders and Portugal.
But the French army was humiliated during WW2, and even before that in 1870, and the peaceful statu quo carved this in stone. This is very bad for national pride, you know?
I always find it incredibly frustrating when people push forward the BS stereotype that the French are cowards and always lose. The French have probably had just as much conflict as any other European region, and I can only remember two wars that the French actually lost (Franco-Prussian and Napoleon's reign ended in defeat, but hell that doesn't even count as a loss). Not only that, France came up with the greatest military general in earth's history and the largest mainland European empire in the world's history (Napoleon the Great).
Actually having a bloody history is something negative in terms of manliness. Yeah I know that sounds like it doesn't make sense, but see it this way. Throughout history there have been badasses who nobody dared to fuck with, like the spartans in their hardcore period, although technically they've been constantly in war since they declared war every year on their slaves(yep). Or the Prussians, after the Soldier king modernized their army. That people wage wars on you actually just means that their leaders are idiots (French-Prussian-War) or that they think that they could win against you.
PS: Napoleon as the greatest military genius of the world?lol Oh and he was Italian(Corsica) and only rose so high because he was discriminated for being small and speaking with a weird accent as a child.
It's not about manliness, it's about the fact that the French have never been cowards. And yes, Napoleon was one of the greatest (if not the greatest) military leaders of all time. And he was of Italian ancestry, but was born in French territory (Corsica was French territory at the time of his birth) and spent his whole life as a Frenchman. Just because I'm of dominantly Irish and German ancestry doesn't make me a non-American. His circumstances are completely irrelevant when talking about his nationality.
I just commented on his "moment of manly history", not the stereotype itself And I read a lot about Napoleon, and yeah he was good, maybe even one of the best, but he is also immensely overrated (though his actions did have big consequences ofc)
On January 21 2012 23:59 Black[CAT] wrote: I heard of french bashing of France surrendering during WW2 and cant fight the war without help...
Which is ridiculous since the German war machine was so strong that it took four major powers combined AND the Nazis being stupid enough to invade Russia for them to lose.
On January 21 2012 23:58 DoubleReed wrote: I just see it as somewhat friendly rivalry. I think there are a decent amount French people that legitimately don't like Americans though, but that's obviously just minor racism. Most of the time it's just banter. We share heritage with the English, so we're always going to take England's side on things, including making fun of the french.
On January 21 2012 23:47 SilentchiLL wrote: Throughout history there have been badasses who nobody dared to fuck with, like the spartans .
Tell that to men of Thebes, who made spartans their own bitches.
Exceptions prove the rule.
Please let's not spout cliches with the intent of sounding intelligent and wise. Basic statistics says the opposite.
I just wanted to say that just because there's one excepotion doesn't mean that something's entirely wrong. And saying I do it to sound intelligent just because you don't understand it is kinda mean ;_;
The Americans and French seem to be the two most arrogant, nationalistic nations when it comes to their tourists. I dont find it that surprising that the Americans hate the only other nation as obnoxious as themselves. Of course these are generalisations and there are many intelligent, quiet-spoken americans/french. I have friends from both countries after all. It's just that every other nationality i've run into seem, on average, to be less full of themselves.
On January 21 2012 23:02 Back wrote: - USA produces many of today's greatest scientists -> some redneck at wal-mart doesn't know the name of the continents (that's what counts)
It doesnt. Nearly all of the great scientists at American universities are foreign born and educated.
Even still, the fact that the education is good can't be a point AGAINST America.
Higher education and specialized formation has to be centered somewhere. America is convenient because it's big and has a lot of money. In general, the education in America (undergraduate) is about as good as in the rest of the world.
Btw, I really feel bad for all the French here thinking our educationnal system suck. I come from a poor family and am now in the best engineering school in France, being paid around 800€ a month just to study, without having anything to give back. Just because I proved through French examinations that I deserved it. I don't think there's a lot of countries where you have that kind of opportunities, and you can have access to the higher education in your country without ever having to pay anything.
Without ever having to pay anything ? When you come from a poor family maybe, because the French system regarding scholarship and taxe reduction is ludicrous, for the rest of us, one actually has to pay a bit. Not that much over the course of a year, admittedly, but still a decent amount.
I went into a pure public formation, elementary school, middle school, high school, classe préparatoire, Polytechnique. Never, ever, payed a single € for my formation. And I never had a scolarship.
But yeah, if you want to go to the university, the French educational system is not that awesome. It's way more centered around Grandes Écoles regarding scientific training (which is the formation usually used as a benchmark).
Yeah well, I went to classe préparatoire too, got one of the top engineering school as well. I have to pay for the yearly fees of the school, and I had to pay for the concours too. Like I said, not that much, but still something.
On January 21 2012 23:02 Back wrote: - USA produces many of today's greatest scientists -> some redneck at wal-mart doesn't know the name of the continents (that's what counts)
It doesnt. Nearly all of the great scientists at American universities are foreign born and educated.
Even still, the fact that the education is good can't be a point AGAINST America.
Higher education and specialized formation has to be centered somewhere. America is convenient because it's big and has a lot of money. In general, the education in America (undergraduate) is about as good as in the rest of the world.
Btw, I really feel bad for all the French here thinking our educationnal system suck. I come from a poor family and am now in the best engineering school in France, being paid around 800€ a month just to study, without having anything to give back. Just because I proved through French examinations that I deserved it. I don't think there's a lot of countries where you have that kind of opportunities, and you can have access to the higher education in your country without ever having to pay anything.
Without ever having to pay anything ? When you come from a poor family maybe, because the French system regarding scholarship and taxe reduction is ludicrous, for the rest of us, one actually has to pay a bit. Not that much over the course of a year, admittedly, but still a decent amount.
I went into a pure public formation, elementary school, middle school, high school, classe préparatoire, Polytechnique. Never, ever, payed a single € for my formation. And I never had a scolarship.
But yeah, if you want to go to the university, the French educational system is not that awesome. It's way more centered around Grandes Écoles regarding scientific training (which is the formation usually used as a benchmark).
On January 21 2012 23:10 Kukaracha wrote: Okay, so here's my "manly history" moment.
French are not cowards, in fact France has one of the most violent histories in the world, waging war after war against every neighbour, and even against most of Europe during Napoleonic times. It is utterly false to say that the french have a history of losing or retreating. In medieval times the english court spoke french as the ruling dynasty was Norman; the Frank kingdom was one of the most powerful at the time; and so was the French kingdom during the Renaissance, and during the Lumières, too. French patriots ousted all foreign troops when a coalition tried to restore the French royalty, while severely outnumbered. Historians have given France the nickname of the "European China", because of its huge population during medieval times. Even the 100-year war wasn't a conflict between France and England, but mostly between two dynasties, and the side of the Valois (France) was vastly outnumbered by the attacks of Burgandy, Brittany, Flanders and Portugal.
But the French army was humiliated during WW2, and even before that in 1870, and the peaceful statu quo carved this in stone. This is very bad for national pride, you know?
I always find it incredibly frustrating when people push forward the BS stereotype that the French are cowards and always lose. The French have probably had just as much conflict as any other European region, and I can only remember two wars that the French actually lost (Franco-Prussian and Napoleon's reign ended in defeat, but hell that doesn't even count as a loss). Not only that, France came up with the greatest military general in earth's history and the largest mainland European empire in the world's history (Napoleon the Great).
Actually having a bloody history is something negative in terms of manliness. Yeah I know that sounds like it doesn't make sense, but see it this way. Throughout history there have been badasses who nobody dared to fuck with, like the spartans in their hardcore period, although technically they've been constantly in war since they declared war every year on their slaves(yep). Or the Prussians, after the Soldier king modernized their army. That people wage wars on you actually just means that their leaders are idiots (French-Prussian-War) or that they think that they could win against you.
PS: Napoleon as the greatest military genius of the world?lol Oh and he was Italian(Corsica) and only rose so high because he was discriminated for being small and speaking with a weird accent as a child.
How is having a bloody history not manly. It means you can have some pride in your country that the land you're on was won with the blood of your ancestors.
The thing we learn from history is that everyone was ethnocentric and thought they were badasses who could wave their dicks around wherever they wanted. The Greeks thought they were badasses, until they got annexed by the Romans, who in turn crumbled when faced with the Barbarian invasions. The same can be said about Frederick the Great who ended up fighting something like a 2-3 front war or Napoleon who ventured into Russia and dared face the cold winters there, and let's not forget Hitler who had studied Napoleon's Russian campaign closely and still decided to attack deep into Russia knowing what happened.
Asking why the US hates France in general, which nobody has the answer to (because we dont, its one of those jokes that the world takes seriously.) except people in every other country knows exactly why we hate everything we do.
As many people have already said lots of french people are very rude and egocentric. I think many french people think they are better than everyone else. Refusing to speak any other language because their is superior etc. It pisses off a lot of people me included heh. Of course not everyone is like this and of course people like this exist in every country but for some reason it seems there are way more in France
I had french in high school and even my teacher who was such a fan of France, who went there often on holiday etc would even say stuff like this.
On January 22 2012 00:03 Lightwip wrote: Honestly, French are just fun to mock. No other reason for me.
this, 90% of people on the internet uses stereotypes for fun same way they use memes, its not because they find french people cowards, or any other reasons, its just because it sticked to it and its funny, internet.
Its like jokes about Poles, to be frank i dont care. Stereotype jokes are just like memes they kinda stick, and if they stick and are being used than it means many people who use them have to found them funny.
On January 21 2012 22:39 IntoTheheart wrote: They're just fun to bash due to their, "History," of retreating.
IIRC they haven't given up or retreated nearly as much as we make them out to.
Bashing us on WWII has always been pretty harsh.
Sure we were "known" for being the "best" military after the WWI and we should have kicked the Nazis asses when they came in the Ardennes but many things went wrong:
- We didn't really want to go to war after losing so much in the first WW - We didn't hear De Gaulle's appeal to increase the use of tanks instead of using infantry and old war tactics - We were arrogant and ignorant, thinking Hitler wouldn't go through the Ardennes Forest (thus, the ligne Maginot being useless)
Then, well, we got owned and had to go through occupation thanks to those Vichy bastards, Petain being the overmind.
Still, we helped our english allies get back safely to their island during the evacuation of Dunkirk, we had our own french resistance, sabotaging railroads, giving informations to GB, we tried to save jews (don't get me wrong, i'm not talking about the police who brought them into the Velodrome D'hiver and other concentration camps)
But we'll always be known for that war for surrendering, prefering not losing as much as in the first world war.
Good post. French jokes and bashing have been around longer than the tension surrounding the Iraq war, but they did become a lot more prevalent, harsh, and socially acceptable after that. It is in our media and schools. When I grew up I believed as I had been taught in public school. The French had acted cowardly and surrendered in WWII, and the Allies had to bail them out. It wasn't until I studied the war independently during high school that I learned the true events, they simply are not taught here. The education system is heavily American. It is always as if we are reading an autobiography of our nation. Every war, movement, and event is framed in an "I" or "we" perspective, and it poisons the attitudes we have towards other nations. Don't get me wrong, the jokes against the French are largely harmless and based in comedy, but they are a learned behavior in some parts of the country. It raises that ignorant sentiment of French cowardice that some people never grow out of, even people vying to lead our country.
(For more reading regarding the points made in the quoted post, see Marc Bloch's Strange Defeat, very good account)
here is a question for you OP: have you noticed that the people from GB are known for their bashing on germans? Even though France/Poland may have so much more reasons to hate on germany for WW2 (and a lot more history of killing each other, especially with France), we get along pretty well. But british media/people from Britain always open pandoras World War box and how all Germans are bad and Nazis and what not else. Is there a logical explanation why Britains hate on Germans more than any other country? Not really, at least not in my eyes.
So about the American-France-thing: Aside from me personally believing in the american school system (and most other school systems of other countries as well, for that matter) fails on political backgrounds for both world wars, americans don't have a straight connection to france (for example, in my humble opinion americans tend to side with Germany because they helped us with the whole communism-Russia-Berlin-country-divided-thing). Furthermore, French seems to remind americans of Canada, and americans seem to like to make fun of Canada.
On January 21 2012 23:10 Kukaracha wrote: Okay, so here's my "manly history" moment.
French are not cowards, in fact France has one of the most violent histories in the world, waging war after war against every neighbour, and even against most of Europe during Napoleonic times. It is utterly false to say that the french have a history of losing or retreating. In medieval times the english court spoke french as the ruling dynasty was Norman; the Frank kingdom was one of the most powerful at the time; and so was the French kingdom during the Renaissance, and during the Lumières, too. French patriots ousted all foreign troops when a coalition tried to restore the French royalty, while severely outnumbered. Historians have given France the nickname of the "European China", because of its huge population during medieval times. Even the 100-year war wasn't a conflict between France and England, but mostly between two dynasties, and the side of the Valois (France) was vastly outnumbered by the attacks of Burgandy, Brittany, Flanders and Portugal.
But the French army was humiliated during WW2, and even before that in 1870, and the peaceful statu quo carved this in stone. This is very bad for national pride, you know?
I always find it incredibly frustrating when people push forward the BS stereotype that the French are cowards and always lose. The French have probably had just as much conflict as any other European region, and I can only remember two wars that the French actually lost (Franco-Prussian and Napoleon's reign ended in defeat, but hell that doesn't even count as a loss). Not only that, France came up with the greatest military general in earth's history and the largest mainland European empire in the world's history (Napoleon the Great).
Actually having a bloody history is something negative in terms of manliness. Yeah I know that sounds like it doesn't make sense, but see it this way. Throughout history there have been badasses who nobody dared to fuck with, like the spartans in their hardcore period, although technically they've been constantly in war since they declared war every year on their slaves(yep). Or the Prussians, after the Soldier king modernized their army. That people wage wars on you actually just means that their leaders are idiots (French-Prussian-War) or that they think that they could win against you.
PS: Napoleon as the greatest military genius of the world?lol Oh and he was Italian(Corsica) and only rose so high because he was discriminated for being small and speaking with a weird accent as a child.
How is having a bloody history not manly. It means you can have some pride in your country that the land you're on was won with the blood of your ancestors.
The thing we learn from history is that everyone was ethnocentric and thought they were badasses who could wave their dicks around wherever they wanted. The Greeks thought they were badasses, until they got annexed by the Romans, who in turn crumbled when faced with the Barbarian invasions. The same can be said about Frederick the Great who ended up fighting something like a 2-3 front war or Napoleon who ventured into Russia and dared face the cold winters there, and let's not forget Hitler who had studied Napoleon's Russian campaign closely and still decided to attack deep into Russia knowing what happened.
Didn't I awnser that question in the post you quoted 0.o? Of course wars are usually considered manly, you're just even more manly when you're so manly that nobody dares to wage war on you.
Correct me on my history but since the americain revolution was against the british, france sent navel support to america and actually played a huge role in the success of the americain revolution.
it actually goes both ways becuase the aiding of the state is also one of the thing that bankrupt frances monarch(amung a huge list of other thing ) witch ultamently led to the frensh revolution. Consepts of free citizens and equal rights where also brought back to france from the soldiers and added to the powder cage under the frensh people who lived in famin under the monarch
France is a really cool place (Paris and the Louvre were amazing) but i have to admit, i didn't find the Country very welcoming, at least compared to the lots of other nations I've been to. Maybe it's just because of the pointless bickering between the 2 nations, but it was pretty shocking, tbh. Like they blatantly had disdain for anyone American and would be open about it (in French). Sadly for them one of us spoke french fluently so it wasn't that much of a secret...
On January 22 2012 00:20 DannyJ wrote: France is a really cool place (Paris and the Louvre were amazing) but i have to admit, i didn't find the Country very welcoming, at least compared to the lots of other nations I've been to. Maybe it's just because of the pointless bickering between the 2 nations, but it was pretty shocking, tbh. Like they blatantly had disdain for anyone American and would be open about it (in French). Sadly for them one of us spoke french fluently so it wasn't that much of a secret...
I was chasen by drunk young french guys along with my friends near tour eiffel just because we said we are italian. Then u can get robbed or stabbed at any angle in the city and it's really difficult to communicate. Going to Paris is always a shitty experience. I have to say though that most french people I know are awesome people. I think the language barrier is too much for that country and overall Paris is one of the worst cities to visit as a tourist.
WOW! I browsed the first few replies and it was nothing but america bashing! Odd how that turns out.
So, this is the way it is, people are people. They tell stupid jokes and say dumb things. They think that any culture that isn't their own is weird, because to them, it is. But, I can tell you there is just as much America bashing or black bashing, or redneck bashing, republican bashing, liberal bashing, etc. The French and Americans get along well even if they don't see eye to eye on every issue, I don't see it ever turning into anything but an amicable and mutually prosperous relationship between the countries. Bashing is bashing. It is harmless poking fun at someone for being different than you. It's juvenile, but also puerile.
Some people may mean it to be aggressive, if so, they are ignorant. But, any time you stereotype an entire people it's ignorant. Just let them have their fun and keep calling them fat radicals or whatever. Street goes both ways and it's pretty bullshit if you say ignorant shit jokingly, then take offense when it comes back around <3 everyone and chill!!
On January 22 2012 00:04 Scarecrow wrote: The Americans and French seem to be the two most arrogant, nationalistic nations when it comes to their tourists. I dont find it that surprising that the Americans hate the only other nation as obnoxious as themselves. Of course these are generalisations and there are many intelligent, quiet-spoken americans/french. I have friends from both countries after all. It's just that every other nationality i've run into seem, on average, to be less full of themselves.
Don't be hating on America! All Americans love Australia I think. The fucking Outback man. If I could move anywhere in the world it would probably be Australia after that I would probably go with Iceland or another Nordic Country. I think i got Nordic ancestry blonde hair blue eyes 6'2 =/. Either way were not all arrogant in America lol. Also Crocodile Dundee is a great movie thanks Australia. This topic makes me want some baby back ribs and French fries. Oh ya.
On January 22 2012 00:20 DannyJ wrote: France is a really cool place (Paris and the Louvre were amazing) but i have to admit, i didn't find the Country very welcoming, at least compared to the lots of other nations I've been to. Maybe it's just because of the pointless bickering between the 2 nations, but it was pretty shocking, tbh. Like they blatantly had disdain for anyone American and would be open about it (in French). Sadly for them one of us spoke french fluently so it wasn't that much of a secret...
I was chasen by drunk young french guys along with my friends near tour eiffel just because we said we are italian. Then u can get robbed or stabbed at any angle in the city and it's really difficult to communicate. Going to Paris is always a shitty experience. I have to say though that most french people I know are awesome people. I think the language barrier is too much for that country and overall Paris is one of the worst cities to visit as a tourist.
Haha you're not in Champigny or Aulnay-Sous-Bois man. Ok there are pickpockets in the tube. But you don't get stab for no reason. And drunk people, where ever they are from, are always stupid. Plus you could fight back, drunk guys are not really effective at fighting
Actually the thread was more about the political bashing, but I must have not been explicit enough :D
i live in the U.S and i can assure you, no there is not anti-france ralleys and people walking down the street cursing at frenchman. the common stereotype for french is that they are arrogent and stuck up, but w/e every race/religion/nationality has a sterotype pinned to them so who the fuck cares really?
On January 21 2012 21:37 Al Bundy wrote: I am french. Sometimes I think that people are right to bash us. I'm going to generalize a bit here, but it's undeniable that some of us are chauvinistic, pretentious, uneducated assholes. Not to mention we can't behave when abroad, and that's really unfortunate because everytime I go abroad, I think man our reputation definitely precedes us. I'm kind of tired having to pay for my fellow Frenchmen's incongruous behavior.
Felt like reference this excellent post to begin mine.
In World War two, France was the last fighting hope for mainland Europe against the Nazis. They overvalued themselves and the Maginot line and then rolled over dead to the Germans when they were invaded. A lot of people took this as a sign of weakness and cowardliness; as Britain withstood years of bombing from the Germans without surrendering, it took two nuclear bombs to convince the Japanese to surrender, nobody surrendered at Stalingrad, etc. See the point? This is where the term "cheese eating surrender monkeys" came from. (thank you Simpsons). In terms of the "manly nationality-peen" post battle preceding my post- this is when the French got into the freezing cold water.
Quebec is a joke amongst Canadians. They want so badly to be French, but even the French dislike them.
Quite frankly, frivolous prejudice against other countries is pretty common practice, often due to jealousy or irrational biased. Either way, I couldn't care less if people hate the French, or if the French don't appreciate the negative stereotypes.
On January 22 2012 00:12 Cirqueenflex wrote: here is a question for you OP: have you noticed that the people from GB are known for their bashing on germans? Even though France/Poland may have so much more reasons to hate on germany for WW2 (and a lot more history of killing each other, especially with France), we get along pretty well. But british media/people from Britain always open pandoras World War box and how all Germans are bad and Nazis and what not else.
Well, I cant agree with this. Poles are bashing all countries around, maybe with exception of Hungary, and Germans are on the very top of the nations "we" like to bash. Polish media are not such a dickheads in majority as british media are, but some of the shittiest blockbuster also afford to bad jokes about Germans (they dont like to remind nazi Germany thouth, in this one they arent so harsh)
On January 21 2012 21:37 Al Bundy wrote: I am french. Sometimes I think that people are right to bash us. I'm going to generalize a bit here, but it's undeniable that some of us are chauvinistic, pretentious, uneducated assholes. Not to mention we can't behave when abroad, and that's really unfortunate because everytime I go abroad, I think man our reputation definitely precedes us. I'm kind of tired having to pay for my fellow Frenchmen's incongruous behavior.
Felt like reference this excellent post to begin mine.
In World War two, France was the last fighting hope for mainland Europe against the Nazis. They overvalued themselves and the Maginot line and then rolled over dead to the Germans when they were invaded. A lot of people took this as a sign of weakness and cowardliness; as Britain withstood years of bombing from the Germans without surrendering, it took two nuclear bombs to convince the Japanese to surrender, nobody surrendered at Stalingrad, etc. See the point? This is where the term "cheese eating surrender monkeys" came from. (thank you Simpsons). In terms of the "manly nationality-peen" post battle preceding my post- this is when the French got into the freezing cold water.
Quebec is a joke amongst Canadians. They want so badly to be French, but even the French dislike them.
Quite frankly, frivolous prejudice against other countries is pretty common practice, often due to jealousy or irrational biased. Either way, I couldn't care less if people hate the French, or if the French don't appreciate the negative stereotypes.
If you don't like it, go eat some cake.
I feel like we can take some simple military lessons from these examples.
Islands are fucking hard to invade.
Islands are really fucking hard to invade.
You do not ever invade Russia via land from the west.
In World War two, France was the last fighting hope for mainland Europe against the Nazis. They overvalued themselves and the Maginot line and then rolled over dead to the Germans when they were invaded. A lot of people took this as a sign of weakness and cowardliness; as Britain withstood years of bombing from the Germans without surrendering, it took two nuclear bombs to convince the Japanese to surrender, nobody surrendered at Stalingrad, etc. See the point?
Ok so: 1)England, they fought with bravery but the fact that they were an island played a huge part in not getting crushed. 2)Russia, they made a NAP with the Nazis, they did great at the end of the war and played a huge part in the defeat of the 3rd Reich but it was at the end. And man, History told us you don't fuck with the Russians on their homeland xD 3)Japanese, same that England, weren't invaded on their own territory.
It's harder to resist when the invader is close to your children and wife. Yes France overrated itself, was doing an oldschool war, didn't anticipate the germans would go through Belgium. But at this time germans would have nomatch anyone.
Fighting from a distance with your family safe is easier than fighting when in a 2 days walk they can be in your home.
The one country that was fucking awesome was Poland, they fought with cavalery with swords against tanks. You need some balls ^^
Don't think the Germans ever really tried any wholesale invasion of England. Lots of bombing, but that was it. Also, I think the lesson with Russia has more to do with planning campaigns so you don't fight Russians in the winter, and also having the sense not to be fighting battles in every cardinal direction from your capital.
On January 22 2012 00:46 TanTzoR wrote: The one country that was fucking awesome was Poland, they fought with cavalery with swords against tanks. You need some balls ^^
I've experienced both sides, American and French. Mostly this has been from tourists inside Australia. What I've found is that they are rude, speak out of turn, and in general offend Australian culture, claiming it as inferior to their own. I always feel they're trying to be king-dick in social situations, and it just doesn't sit well with me.
Personally I don't ever hope to visit USA, and would visit France if I was touring Europe, but purely for the food.
Generalising and hating an entire group of people or a country is bad.
But honestly I have always thought of the French joke about them surrendering as just that, a joke. Sure, some people might believe that, but most people are smart enough to realize that it is just a joke
First thing when i was young i learned about France was that their president refused to agree for cultural atonomy for the cultures in their land (Bretton for example). And hence signed a death sentence to some different languages/dialects and cultures.
EDIT: Correnting somone: Japan wanted to surrender 5 MONTHS before the 2 nukes, all USA wanted to show their power.
On January 22 2012 00:57 Ramong wrote: But honestly I have always thought of the French joke about them surrendering as just that, a joke. Sure, some people might believe that, but most people are smart enough to realize that it is just a joke
Kind of. In my country jokes of them goes less from their defeat (Wehrmacht has proven to be more than a match for more than 1 country, besides we left 600k prisoners in 1939, killing only 16000 of Germans, so we are NOT the ones who can laugh. Besides defeat of France was MAJOR tragedy for our homeland) but more from this damn "phoney war" fiasco. In our eyes this is what they really fucked up with.
On January 22 2012 00:22 aTnClouD wrote: . Then u can get robbed or stabbed at any angle in the city.
Yeah right, most of my family and friends live in Paris, and not one of them has ever been robbed, let alone stabbed. Worst story I heard is the brother of a friend who fell asleep drunk in the subways and woke up without his iphone. Paris is not dangerous, at all. Worst thing that could happen is getting robbed if you go really deep in the non-touristic places at night alone and that's still extremly unlikely. Just don't go in the bad suburbs on purpose and nothing will happen to you. The only people that hate italians are diehard football fans. And if the italians behave like douchebags, because the "italians are douchebags" stereotype does run strong here
On January 21 2012 21:20 TanTzoR wrote: Edit: damn can't edit title, it's "France" Bashing ofc
Hihi,
I've been questioning myself for some time why the United-States are that aggressive towards France. I'm half French but leave in the UK, I may not be totally objective but it seems it's more one-sided.
As someone who travelled in France, fuck the French, they deserve every single slander they get :D
jkjk... but seriously, here is the attitude I met in Paris:
you aren't from around here and are asking for help? Nope, I'll ignore you unless you speak French (why the hell should we bother with English? Yeah, we know enough to understand you, but go fuck yourself we ain't using it in France). Ohh, you are having a hard time with French because you decided to learn it just for the two weeks you'll be here? Fuck you, we'll talk as fast as we can. You asked us to slow down? Heh. Next sentence will be slower, then back to full speed, and you better thank me for that one sentence. What kind of retard are you that didn't study French for a couple of years to prepare for your two week vacation?! Ohh, you want me to recommend a nice place? Here is the closest overpriced shitty tourist trap... You know what? Fuck this, it's taking to much time, I'll point you in the opposite direction of where you need to go. Now fuck off. Asshole.
I heard it's not as bad outside Paris. I also heard that in Paris some people are trying to change that. But for most people who have had contact with French people, it's somewhere along those lines. Considering this is the French attitude to people who visit France, the fact you expect people to not hate your guts indiscriminately is frankly surprising.
The bashing during the Bush era had a lot to do with the French opposition to the Iraq War (although many American opposed it too). The other stuff is meant to be mindless nationalistic humor. Nothing personal. Kinda dumb really, but also sort of funny.
Vichy France joined the Axis powers in WWII, so we have no respect for them. They were invaded but they still could've resisted considering how horrible the Axis Powers were. Americans just feel like the French are pathetic and weak.
We're just too beautiful for the rest of the world. Leave with it.
Edit: To person above me, sorry but your senate **** us really really hard during the second war. 'Oh sorry it was the president who signed this and we didn't approve that, so ...hmm get lost.' You should have joined us in 1938. And Vichy, who was senile, did what he thought he had to do to protect French people.
And to person under me, at the end of the ww1, we wanted to crush and invade Germany but England and America said 'hell no, we don't want a powerful France in Europe.'
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
You joking right ?
He's probably referencing to the treaty of Versailles after world war 1.
On January 21 2012 21:37 Al Bundy wrote: I am french. Sometimes I think that people are right to bash us. I'm going to generalize a bit here, but it's undeniable that some of us are chauvinistic, pretentious, uneducated assholes. Not to mention we can't behave when abroad, and that's really unfortunate because everytime I go abroad, I think man our reputation definitely precedes us. I'm kind of tired having to pay for my fellow Frenchmen's incongruous behavior.
Felt like reference this excellent post to begin mine.
In World War two, France was the last fighting hope for mainland Europe against the Nazis. They overvalued themselves and the Maginot line and then rolled over dead to the Germans when they were invaded. A lot of people took this as a sign of weakness and cowardliness; as Britain withstood years of bombing from the Germans without surrendering, it took two nuclear bombs to convince the Japanese to surrender, nobody surrendered at Stalingrad, etc. See the point? This is where the term "cheese eating surrender monkeys" came from. (thank you Simpsons). In terms of the "manly nationality-peen" post battle preceding my post- this is when the French got into the freezing cold water.
Quebec is a joke amongst Canadians. They want so badly to be French, but even the French dislike them.
Quite frankly, frivolous prejudice against other countries is pretty common practice, often due to jealousy or irrational biased. Either way, I couldn't care less if people hate the French, or if the French don't appreciate the negative stereotypes.
If you don't like it, go eat some cake.
I'm pretty sure the Battle of Britain only lasted a few months, not "years". If you had said that Germany had withstood years of bombing you might have been credible, because that's actually what happened. You should also realize that the Soviet Union came close, very close to sharing France's fate. Stalin and the government were already preparing to flee from Moscow. The Red Army's refusal to surrender shouldn't be undermined but it's important to remember that the severe logistic problems of invading the Soviet Union, coupled with the ruthless winter, also played a key role in the USSR's resistance. France didn't have that. The UK would have also shared France's fate had it not been on an island. It's easy to point out that France was weak but the UK and the USSR had some trump cards that France did not.
The first post was indeed accurate about many things, I sometimes cringe when I interact with French people online and it's true that we aren't exactly the best behaving people. We have our faults, no doubt. But your post is filled with a lot of ignorance which I find distasteful. Your loss
On January 21 2012 21:20 TanTzoR wrote: PS: a little trick of history xD George Washington, the first American president of history was a linear descendant of a frenchman.
This is the kind of fact that would be useful if the US as a whole refused to deal with France. Not at all true. There is just occasional disagreement on France's stance on certain issues. To use it here is really just silly.
I'm American... I lived in France for a while and I've been there a few times, I love it. The people are really nice, the lifestyle is great, the food is good etc.
I've met more than a few Americans who like to bash on French people, and the vast majority of them have either never been to France or have only been to Paris. They just seem to buy into the stereotype that all French people are arrogant snobs, which I know for a fact is definitely untrue.
On January 21 2012 21:48 Nightshake wrote: Im french and I live in France. And this country has a lot of dumb people. Education and political system suck hard, and a lot of people are just unsociable and always unhappy. Not to mention, the arrogance of French (well this is characteristic and not that bad as every country has people with a main default).
But it's a beautiful country, and you can meet great people. And there is a reason why French culture is so well-known.
The thing is that Americans think that French are cowards who didn't take part in the WWII. Well, we got attacked by a huge ass army with a crazy dictator. Pétain, the Maréchal at this time (the commander of the army), decided to cooperate with the nazis. And that's why people don't like French. I'd like to say that after WW2, Pétain got executed for cooperating with the nazis.
And let's not forget that we're not the only ones who got PWNT by the Nazis. I'm thinking of Netherlands for exmaple, which was overrun in 5 days.
Hey hey now don't say we where overrun or (PWNT). Actually we surrendered. Because after the Germans got bogged down at the Nieuwe Maas river and other defensive strongholds. They got impatient and decided to level Rotterdam (killing civs) to force our surrender. We did not have the equipment to stop the bombers so we did the only sensible thing we surrendered.
With the limited resources we had (WWI rifles and bicycles) we fought bravely and we where actually able to halt the advance of the most sophisticated army at the time. I for one tip my hat to those fellows and do not like this misconception.
ontopic
I do not know what to think of all the stereotypes. Tough i dislike the mindset of some country's. For example. The French and German for their inability to learn a second language like English. I think it is because everything on TV is German/French if its English or another language it gets replaced so it is in their native language. Even if you take news interviews instead of providing subtitles they just replace the audio track it or translate by voice. My classmate has been in Germany for a half a year to do a internship (at a school) there. He had fun but he confirmed that everybody was horrible at English the only persons with a somewhat decent level of understanding where the IT guys he worked with.
So think of it when they come visit your country and they start talking in their language and expect you to answer it it just pisses me of so badly.
The whole God bless America Fuck yea attitude aside that's about all the irks i have.
On January 22 2012 01:18 Samtastic wrote: Vichy France joined the Axis powers in WWII, so we have no respect for them. They were invaded but they still could've resisted considering how horrible the Axis Powers were. Americans just feel like the French are pathetic and weak.
So let me just remind you once again: they started the war with Germans in defence of other country. In the same time, Americans put the trade embargo for both Poland and Nazi Germany. They surrendered their gouverment, yes, unlike many european countries (like Greece, Poland etc.) But my country paid for this with a massive devastation that hit us for next 50 years. French had to fouth on their own soil, with perspective of losing thousands of civilians, when Americans had bombed only...what...Havai islands?
Also, Vichy France declared neutrality in this war.
On January 22 2012 00:58 LeibSaiLeib wrote: First thing when i was young i learned about France was that their president refused to agree for cultural atonomy for the cultures in their land (Bretton for example). And hence signed a death sentence to some different languages/dialects and cultures.
EDIT: Correnting somone: Japan wanted to surrender 5 MONTHS before the 2 nukes, all USA wanted to show their power.
Japan wanted to fight till the end. We literally erased one of their major towns and they still fought on. They only surrendered after the second one and the threat of more to come. America and the soviet union where gearing up for the largest invasion imaginable in a modern age. Despite not having any armor and a wildly under armed and ununited army the Chinese held on against the japan imperial army. (with our help wonder how much they owe us for that)
On January 21 2012 21:37 Al Bundy wrote: I am french. Sometimes I think that people are right to bash us. I'm going to generalize a bit here, but it's undeniable that some of us are chauvinistic, pretentious, uneducated assholes. Not to mention we can't behave when abroad, and that's really unfortunate because everytime I go abroad, I think man our reputation definitely precedes us. I'm kind of tired having to pay for my fellow Frenchmen's incongruous behavior.
Felt like reference this excellent post to begin mine.
In World War two, France was the last fighting hope for mainland Europe against the Nazis. They overvalued themselves and the Maginot line and then rolled over dead to the Germans when they were invaded. A lot of people took this as a sign of weakness and cowardliness; as Britain withstood years of bombing from the Germans without surrendering, it took two nuclear bombs to convince the Japanese to surrender, nobody surrendered at Stalingrad, etc. See the point? This is where the term "cheese eating surrender monkeys" came from. (thank you Simpsons). In terms of the "manly nationality-peen" post battle preceding my post- this is when the French got into the freezing cold water.
Quebec is a joke amongst Canadians. They want so badly to be French, but even the French dislike them.
Quite frankly, frivolous prejudice against other countries is pretty common practice, often due to jealousy or irrational biased. Either way, I couldn't care less if people hate the French, or if the French don't appreciate the negative stereotypes.
If you don't like it, go eat some cake.
I feel like we can take some simple military lessons from these examples.
Islands are fucking hard to invade.
Islands are really fucking hard to invade.
You do not ever invade Russia via land from the west.
America did a really good job of it during the pacific side of the war. You know the one that America fought basically by themselves while fighting off the nazies in europe? The reason why the UK was never invadable was the superiority of the British navy. Don't bash Canada also they are our best bros in the world. Plus all modern military doctrine involves letting Russia invade some poor fool and destroy their forces in the field. France has been a huge thorn in the side of America. They where a huge problem with them thinking that their candidate should be the new head of the UN when america who funds half the thing wants their candidate at the top of the un.
And I think that the french are the only counter that we haven't had a war with. Whats up with that? (french Indian war being more of a Canadian american war then anything else)
On January 22 2012 01:18 Samtastic wrote: Vichy France joined the Axis powers in WWII, so we have no respect for them. They were invaded but they still could've resisted considering how horrible the Axis Powers were. Americans just feel like the French are pathetic and weak.
So let me just remind you once again: they started the war with Germans in defence of other country. In the same time, Americans put an trade embargo for both Poland and Nazi Germany. They surrendered their gouverment, yes, unlike many european countries (like Greece, Poland etc.) But my country paid for this with a massive devastation that hit us for next 50 years. French had to fouth on their own soil, with perspective of losing thousands of civilians, when Americans had bombed only...what...Havai islands?
Also, Vichy France declared neutrality in this war.
lol vichy France being neutral. It was a puppet state and hitler pulled the strings however he wanted. The japanese attacked our major fleet in port before declaring war and invaded all our friends. It's hawaii btw (really not even an excuse on that one just sound it out and its easy) and alaska was also invaded (the islands near the end of the chain are closer to tokyo then the capital of AK to be fair). Not to mention mexico was getting frisky with the nazies.
I think its really more of that France not going into Iraq was a slap in the face from freeing their country in WW2. Like what where the French thinking after WW2 that the lady they shipped over would be enough for america?
On January 22 2012 00:12 Cirqueenflex wrote: Furthermore, French seems to remind americans of Canada, and americans seem to like to make fun of Canada.
French Canadians are a completely different beast. Quebec has a lot of its own problems that I'm sure people from BC/Ontario can elaborate on. They've been thinking Montreal is about to become the capital of the world since the 1970s.
Kazius' post seems pretty familiar. A lot of it is due to ignorance of many Americans but in large part, as others have said, it's a general arrogance of Parisians that creates the stereotype. It's not a friendly city unless you speak French and at a speed that's acceptable to them. If you go to most other countries and try to speak their language, you'll come off as endearing to them.
The WW2 comments are almost entirely driven out of ignorance though.
Also, it's funny but I don't think Bush ever said the entrepeneur comment.
In more modern times, there is an issue of France and a few other Security Council countries doddling along while major crises are happening. It's what gives strength to NATO.
On January 22 2012 01:18 Samtastic wrote: Vichy France joined the Axis powers in WWII, so we have no respect for them. They were invaded but they still could've resisted considering how horrible the Axis Powers were. Americans just feel like the French are pathetic and weak.
If you were not a jew, German occupation wasn't that bad. I think that Sartre said something like "nous n'avons jamais été aussi libres que sous l'Occupation" lol. Definitly not comparable with the situation in the Eastern countries like Poland.
On January 22 2012 01:29 IrOnKaL wrote: Last nights "American Dad" (TV show) episode... "Hows your French Toast?" "Smelly and ungrateful, but my American toast is fantastic."
On January 21 2012 21:48 Nightshake wrote: Im french and I live in France. And this country has a lot of dumb people. Education and political system suck hard, and a lot of people are just unsociable and always unhappy. Not to mention, the arrogance of French (well this is characteristic and not that bad as every country has people with a main default).
But it's a beautiful country, and you can meet great people. And there is a reason why French culture is so well-known.
The thing is that Americans think that French are cowards who didn't take part in the WWII. Well, we got attacked by a huge ass army with a crazy dictator. Pétain, the Maréchal at this time (the commander of the army), decided to cooperate with the nazis. And that's why people don't like French. I'd like to say that after WW2, Pétain got executed for cooperating with the nazis.
On January 21 2012 21:48 Nightshake wrote: Im french and I live in France. And this country has a lot of dumb people. Education and political system suck hard, and a lot of people are just unsociable and always unhappy. Not to mention, the arrogance of French (well this is characteristic and not that bad as every country has people with a main default).
But it's a beautiful country, and you can meet great people. And there is a reason why French culture is so well-known.
The thing is that Americans think that French are cowards who didn't take part in the WWII. Well, we got attacked by a huge ass army with a crazy dictator. Pétain, the Maréchal at this time (the commander of the army), decided to cooperate with the nazis. And that's why people don't like French. I'd like to say that after WW2, Pétain got executed for cooperating with the nazis.
So this is my first post here. Not to generalized but we (the french people) are kind of arrogant. That part is true. But like in every country there a lot of dumb people and good people. Paris is sadly one of the worst if not the worst for the amability of people, even in the rest of france we dont like parisian. As for our inability to speak english, well i'm in my third year of university and the level of english teaching is so ridiculously low that i'm not even surprised we suck at it. And i'm in university, think about the people who dont get access to this kind of teaching ! Its even worse.... As for the whole armenian law story, to be honest its just a plot by sarkozy to get the armenian community vote for the next election. This kind of law come up every goddamn election! And well for the people i know, even the armenian, they dont really care for it. To me the bashing is fair game, we bash the other country a lot and thats what you get when your president do a lot of stupid shit. I mean look how people bashed the american when bush was president. Well we have our bush now and people bash us a little more than before.
Born and raised in America and lived here my whole life, but I've traveled to Europe many times before (and I'm half Swedish so I guess I'm more familiar with European culture than the average American).
Visited Paris for the first time last summer and it was one of the best trips of my life. Kept hearing that Parisians would be arrogant, stuck-up, and rude but I didn't see any of that (okay except for maybe a few angry waiters... but it's not like you have to tip in Europe anyway). Sure they're not as outgoing as in Italy, but compared to NYC the people still felt a lot more laid-back and warm in general. In fact Paris was one of the most beautiful cities I've ever seen, from the people to the culture to the buildings to the food-- I have nothing but respect for the French people.
While it's true that most of the anti-French sentiments come from conservative Americans (god-fearing hillbillies if you will) who have never left their home town and listen to Fox news all day, I've heard some educated friends "poke fun" at France (and most of Europe for that matter) for not being capitalist enough or for eating too much cheese. But again I don't think they've ever been out of the country.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
You joking right ?
France was the main responsbly country for forcing the financial damage completely on germany after WW1 (because letting 1 country pay for the full war is not gonna cause any problems, right?), and pretty much treated german citizens extremely badly (slavelike) in a lot of terrotories. This is still considered one of the biggest reasons why people ended up in the mental state to support national socialism/hitler leading up to WW2.
On January 21 2012 21:48 Nightshake wrote: Im french and I live in France. And this country has a lot of dumb people.
Like in every country.
Education and political system suck hard,
Having been to the United States as part of a school exchange program, I don't think we're that bad, altough there certainly is romm for improvment.
and a lot of people are just unsociable and always unhappy.
Like in every country
Not to mention, the arrogance of French (well this is characteristic and not that bad as every country has people with a main default).
I think saying "French are arrogant" is as true as saying "German are narrow-minded" or "Belgians are stupid" It's more of a oversimplification for dumbass people than of anything else.
But it's a beautiful country, and you can meet great people.
Like in every country.
And there is a reason why French culture is so well-known.
Because of the clichés people who never visited have in mind.
The thing is that Americans think that French are cowards who didn't take part in the WWII. Well, we got attacked by a huge ass army with a crazy dictator. Pétain, the Maréchal at this time (the commander of the army), decided to cooperate with the nazis. And that's why people don't like French. I'd like to say that after WW2, Pétain got executed for cooperating with the nazis.
Stop taking people for autists... -____-. There were people who wanted war, there were prople who didn't want it - the people who did won, like every time.
Oh come on what the fuck is this thread I see a far more concentrated bashing of the US by Europeans as a whole than the US bashing france. Btw I've been to France, it's an amazing fucking country.
I think that for a lot of people here in the US, its just a common theme of jokes. Of course some people internalize these themes and become biased, but I want to put this in perspective. Less than 60 years ago the US still had large areas with segregation. Just 60 years ago a lot of individual states actually sponsored racism. I personally think that the biggest problem we are facing as a nation (racism wise) is nationalistic superiority and hate of muslims among the elderly and uneducated. My grandfather, who was an English professor for most of his life, and is one of the most liberal people I know, doesn't like muslims and thinks that they all live in the middle-east.
I just wanted to say that, though Americans are by no means perfect, have shown significant improvement over the last several decades.
The reason France bashing exists in the US is because the French government occasionally listens to the population, creating inconveniences for the US administration. France is a western democracy, in fact the FIRST western democracy, so it is harder to sell the idea that it doesn't matter to the American population in the US.
It basically started in earnest when the US was assembling the 'coalition of the willing' in order to invade Iraq in 2002. Although the majority of the populations of most countries worldwide (and ironically, especially those within the coalition) were overwhelmingly against the prospect of their country participating, France was a security council permanent member and a historical US ally, and refused to support the war.
Of course this made the war on false pretexts look bad for the US administration, so they started making up petty insults about how France was inferior in x y z ways to save face, and hide the fact that it was a case of a government listening to the fact that it's population was against the war.
This was a huge media capaign, and almost overnight you'd see every network picking up on the act. Everything from them being lazy, to eating the wrong foods, to being communist, to having no 'entrepeneurial spirit' (presumably an insult to hardcore capitalists). I guess the bashing persisted in some form or another until now.
On January 22 2012 01:37 Heero wrote:To me the bashing is fair game, we bash the other country a lot and thats what you get when your president do a lot of stupid shit. I mean look how people bashed the american when bush was president. Well we have our bush now and people bash us a little more than before.
So, so true. We mocked Berlusconi before. Now we have Sarkozy, and it's our turn.
On January 21 2012 21:48 Nightshake wrote: Im french and I live in France. And this country has a lot of dumb people. Education and political system suck hard, and a lot of people are just unsociable and always unhappy. Not to mention, the arrogance of French (well this is characteristic and not that bad as every country has people with a main default).
But it's a beautiful country, and you can meet great people. And there is a reason why French culture is so well-known.
The thing is that Americans think that French are cowards who didn't take part in the WWII. Well, we got attacked by a huge ass army with a crazy dictator. Pétain, the Maréchal at this time (the commander of the army), decided to cooperate with the nazis. And that's why people don't like French. I'd like to say that after WW2, Pétain got executed for cooperating with the nazis.
And let's not forget that we're not the only ones who got PWNT by the Nazis. I'm thinking of Netherlands for exmaple, which was overrun in 5 days.
Hey hey now don't say we where overrun or (PWNT). Actually we surrendered. Because after the Germans got bogged down at the Nieuwe Maas river and other defensive strongholds. They got impatient and decided to level Rotterdam (killing civs) to force our surrender. We did not have the equipment to stop the bombers so we did the only sensible thing we surrendered.
With the limited resources we had (WWI rifles and bicycles) we fought bravely and we where actually able to halt the advance of the most sophisticated army at the time. I for one tip my hat to those fellows and do not like this misconception.
ontopic
I do not know what to think of all the stereotypes. Tough i dislike the mindset of some country's. For example. The French and German for their inability to learn a second language like English. I think it is because everything on TV is German/French if its English or another language it gets replaced so it is in their native language. Even if you take news interviews instead of providing subtitles they just replace the audio track it or translate by voice. My classmate has been in Germany for a half a year to do a internship (at a school) there. He had fun but he confirmed that everybody was horrible at English the only persons with a somewhat decent level of understanding where the IT guys he worked with.
So think of it when they come visit your country and they start talking in their language and expect you to answer it it just pisses me of so badly.
The whole God bless America Fuck yea attitude aside that's about all the irks i have.
Well that's some bullshit about Germans and languages you got there 0.o Yeah old people here do suck at english, but younger people and those around 40 should be fine(even if it get's worse the older they are I think) and people are usually good enough in english so you can understand them, even if the accent annoys me. And what the hell do you mean with "inability to learn languages"? We learn english in every school here and 2 languages in the better schools(learned english and latin because I didn't wanna learn french and didn't want to attend another school for spanish or another language) And I doubt that there are many Germans who "visit your country and they start talking in their language." even older people rather use their broken english than german in situations like that(honestly, there's not even a little bit of truth in that, the only situation were I imagine that that's possible is if they go to a country like the netherlands, where good German would be easier understandable than the bad english of a 65 year old lady from here). And German tv shows are dubbed in german because we are the biggest tv and music market in europe so it pays off for the media industry to do so here.
Seriously man 'the fuck were you smokin' o.0?
EDIT: Smiled when I read your post again and your first on-topic sentence was "I don't know what to think of all the stereotypes, though I dislike the mindset of some countries"
On January 22 2012 01:28 sermokala wrote: lol vichy France being neutral. It was a puppet state and hitler pulled the strings however he wanted. The japanese attacked our major fleet in port before declaring war and invaded all our friends. It's hawaii btw (really not even an excuse on that one just sound it out and its easy) and alaska was also invaded (the islands near the end of the chain are closer to tokyo then the capital of AK to be fair). Not to mention mexico was getting frisky with the nazies.
Haha! Have you seen some french armies invading any allied country? I mean true french armies, not some "anti-commies volunteers" shit. Vichy France was indeed puppet state, but this doesnt mean they joined the war on the axis side. The only one time I remmember you had to deal with the French was landing on north Africa (I dont count the british-french fleet incident). And whats with this "hitler pulled the strings however he wanted"? You Amies hadnt have your own country under the foreign control for long. How can you blame them for this?
On January 22 2012 01:44 SilentchiLL wrote: Well that's some bullshit about Germans and languages you got there 0.o ... Seriously man 'the fuck were you smokin' o.0?
no he is right. When people come to the netherlands they realize that most people in the netherlands can speak german and they speak german to everybody in the netherlands instead of english.
edit: of course you are right with most germans having an "ok" level of english available but that's not what they use when they go to the netherlands which is why the dutch have a good reason to think that.
First, let's not kid ourselves, the US gets bashed way more than France. Second, French bashing is a storied English tradition dating all the way to the Norman invasion and has a lot to do with the fact that Britain and France were two competing world powers for quite a while. And US culture is, after all, heavily influenced by the British. Third, French bashing is almost always facetious, as opposed to, say, China bashing. Finally, US-French relations is a very tiny, usually ignored, part of US foreign policy, so let's not pretend that US culture is somehow defined by French bashing as many of you are trying to imply. I find it a little ironic that some of you are stereotyping US culture as a bunch of French bashers as a reaction to some Americans stereotyping the French.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Well that's some bullshit about Germans and languages you got there 0.o Yeah old people here do suck at english, but younger people and those around 40 should be fine(even if it get's worse the older they are I think) and people are usually good enough in english so you can understand them, even if the accent annoys me. And what the hell do you mean with "inability to learn languages"? We learn english in every school here and 2 languages in the better schools(learned english and latin because I didn't wanna learn french and didn't want to attend another school for spanish or another language) And I doubt that there are many Germans who "visit your country and they start talking in their language." even older people rather use their broken english than german in situations like that(honestly, there's not even a little bit of truth in that, the only situation were I imagine that that's possible is if they go to a country like the netherlands, where good German would be easier understandable than the bad english of a 65 year old lady from here). And German tv shows are dubbed in german because we are the biggest tv and music market in europe so it pays off for the media industry to do so here.
Seriously man 'the fuck were you smokin' o.0?
EDIT: Smiled when I read your post again and your first on-topic sentence was "I don't know what to think of all the stereotypes, though I dislike the mindset of some countries"[/QUOTE]
I am dutch what do you think i am smoking But yea that is my experience so far you come here to dig holes on our beaches sadly drown allot and you speak broken/no English. I do not see the point in dubbing a Hollywood movie or Starcraft II for that matter.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
I don't like french because they refuse to speak english in online games that has english as a rule. And no, they refuse speaking english even when they know it. Annoying and immature.
On January 22 2012 01:44 SilentchiLL wrote: Well that's some bullshit about Germans and languages you got there 0.o ... Seriously man 'the fuck were you smokin' o.0?
no he is right. When people come to the netherlands they realize that most people in the netherlands can speak german and they speak german to everybody in the netherlands instead of english.
edit: of course you are right with most germans having an "ok" level of english available but that's not what they use when they go to the netherlands which is why the dutch have a good reason to think that.
Well ofc they do, it's teh fucking netherlands, but he didn't speak about netherland he said: "So think of it when they come visit your country and they start talking in their language and expect you to answer it it just pisses me of so badly." And Germans visit a lot more countries than just Netherland. And if they work hard enough to learn German where's the problem in using it? Of course you could speak english and talk in a language then which both parties of a conversation don't speak perfectly, or you speak in german which atleast one of them is fluent at.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
what a crap post.
You assume alot about me, since I know plenty.
Being knowledgeable doens't mean I'll envy something.
Being envious has a negative connotation. He made it sound like american sit around hating on french, which is bs.
And your post is even more, bs. obvious hate in your post. nice try though.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
Man, that's kind of unhealthy. Why should anyone envy anybody? His main point is correct, though. The US rarely talks about France in a serious setting, and French jokes are not very common, but can be used to great humorous because of our British-derived culture.
I would guess the US bashes France no more and no less than most other English-speaking countries.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
what a crap post.
You assume alot about me, since I know plenty.
Being knowledgeable doens't mean I'll envy something.
Being envious has a negative connotation. He made it sound like american sit around hating on french, which is bs.
And your post is even more, bs. obvious hate in your post. nice try though.
Ok let me help you figure something out. Envy has a negative connotation but that's when you're envious of someone. Saying "they have nothing to get envious about", however, means that they're doing so badly, there's absolutely no reason why anybody should give in to envy for that country.
Well that's some bullshit about Germans and languages you got there 0.o Yeah old people here do suck at english, but younger people and those around 40 should be fine(even if it get's worse the older they are I think) and people are usually good enough in english so you can understand them, even if the accent annoys me. And what the hell do you mean with "inability to learn languages"? We learn english in every school here and 2 languages in the better schools(learned english and latin because I didn't wanna learn french and didn't want to attend another school for spanish or another language) And I doubt that there are many Germans who "visit your country and they start talking in their language." even older people rather use their broken english than german in situations like that(honestly, there's not even a little bit of truth in that, the only situation were I imagine that that's possible is if they go to a country like the netherlands, where good German would be easier understandable than the bad english of a 65 year old lady from here). And German tv shows are dubbed in german because we are the biggest tv and music market in europe so it pays off for the media industry to do so here.
Seriously man 'the fuck were you smokin' o.0?
EDIT: Smiled when I read your post again and your first on-topic sentence was "I don't know what to think of all the stereotypes, though I dislike the mindset of some countries"
I am dutch what do you think i am smoking But yea that is my experience so far you come here to dig holes on our beaches sadly drown allot and you speak broken/no English. I do not see the point in dubbing a Hollywood movie or Starcraft II for that matter.
Maybe you've only met uneducated idiots then and the reason why you dub a movie or a game is of course because people like things they are used to(like their language) And you'd probably see that point differently if you would've grown up with movies in your own language it's a luxury and maybe not a desperately needed one(I watch a lot of movies and shows in english, sometimes because I don't want to wait until they are dubbed and sometimes because thsoe versions are better, but sometimes the german dub is superior, the movie 300 for example ), but I'm still happy to live in a country where it's profitable for the firms to dub their shows
EDIT: Might be because AFAIK mostly old people go to the Netherlands for their vacation(if you ignore the idiots who make short visits there for weed)
I must say I have heard at least ten times more jokes and criticisms toward the US, even within the US itself. This thread is an excellent example. Heaven forbid they turn a joke toward someone else for a change.
But I get it, we don't have enough threads in general right now dedicated to questioning American values.
On January 22 2012 01:52 jj33 wrote: , I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French
Well then why in an election (eg Kerry), republicans use French as an insult? Same thing now with Romney on the other side.
lol Huntsman got criticized for knowing Chinese. And I'm sure a French politician would probably be criticized for speaking English. It's just stupid nationalism.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
Man, that's kind of unhealthy. Why should anyone envy anybody? His main point is correct, though. The US rarely talks about France in a serious setting, and French jokes are not very common, but can be used to great humorous because of our British-derived culture.
I would guess the US bashes France no more and no less than most other English-speaking countries.
that kid posted something totally non relevant. He basically implied if we knew more about the French, WE WOULD ENVY them. Because they are soooo much better than us etc.
What a joke of a post he made. Then he assumed I am some dumb redneck american probably that is uneducated etc. hahahah
He probably thinks he's real cool posting that. I didn't bash the French in my post, just simply stating nobody talks about the French in normal everyday american life.
You live in the UK? No one likes to bash the French more than the English do, you must've experienced some little comments since living here. I've lived in the UK my whole life and there have always been "French" jokes rolling around
French US relations started to sour right at the end of World War 2. It had nothing to do with France's contribution of the war, the free french did the best they could, but more to do with Politics. General and future president of France, DuGualle, upon the capture of the last major french city (Strasbourg), removed his troops from the war. While he did political remove France from the war, free France forces did not continue their offensives and stayed behind to rebuild France.
Moving on in the 1950's the US virtually ran European policy telling most of European countries what to do. France went against this in defying the US, leaving NATO, and acquiring it's only Nuclear Weapons to ensure for itself the policy of Mutual Destruction.
France has never done things the way the US wants it too. It's not a team player you could say. As such that's hurt its image with the US for years. Its culture now.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
Man, that's kind of unhealthy. Why should anyone envy anybody? His main point is correct, though. The US rarely talks about France in a serious setting, and French jokes are not very common, but can be used to great humorous because of our British-derived culture.
I would guess the US bashes France no more and no less than most other English-speaking countries.
that kid posted something totally non relevant. He basically implied if we knew more about the French, WE WOULD ENVY them. Because they are soooo much better than us etc.
What a joke of a post he made. Then he assumed I am some dumb redneck american probably that is uneducated etc. hahahah
He probably thinks he's real cool posting that. I didn't bash the French in my post, just simply stating nobody talks about the French in normal everyday american life.
You're avoiding my response and bending my words. YOUR post implied that "if you knew about the french" (which you don't), there wouldn't be ANYTHING to be envious about. My post said that there are some things about their country that you might be envious about, but you're not educated about them - doesn't keep you from voicing your ridiculous opinion.
Your post was a joke. And there's a reason why you have to refer to me as "that kid", that's all you got.
On January 22 2012 01:52 jj33 wrote: , I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French
Well then why in an election (eg Kerry), republicans use French as an insult? Same thing now with Romney on the other side.
lol Huntsman got criticized for knowing Chinese. And I'm sure a French politician would probably be criticized for speaking English. It's just stupid nationalism.
No he wouldn't I insure you. Sarkozy or Raffarin or even Fillon are often mocked for their bad english.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
what a crap post.
You assume alot about me, since I know plenty.
Being knowledgeable doens't mean I'll envy something.
Being envious has a negative connotation. He made it sound like american sit around hating on french, which is bs.
And your post is even more, bs. obvious hate in your post. nice try though.
Ok let me help you figure something out. Envy has a negative connotation but that's when you're envious of someone. Saying "they have nothing to get envious about", however, means that they're doing so badly, there's absolutely no reason why anybody should give in to envy for that country.
You're trying to spin this in your favor x_x...
Once again you assumed I meant it in a bad way
I didn't. I said we don't give a damn about them as in we don't sit around talking about the French all damn day or whatever the OP thinks. So if we're not talking about them we don't envy them because there is just no conversation about them.
Americans are too occupied with other stressful crap to sit around talking about the French.
On January 22 2012 01:37 Heero wrote:To me the bashing is fair game, we bash the other country a lot and thats what you get when your president do a lot of stupid shit. I mean look how people bashed the american when bush was president. Well we have our bush now and people bash us a little more than before.
So, so true. We mocked Berlusconi before. Now we have Sarkozy, and it's our turn.
LOL dont compare Bush and Berlusconi to Sarkozy...Sarkozy was way more well received by the political world than Bush and Berlusconi...
On January 22 2012 01:42 caradoc wrote: The reason France bashing exists in the US is because the French government occasionally listens to the population, creating inconveniences for the US administration. France is a western democracy, in fact the FIRST western democracy, so it is harder to sell the idea that it doesn't matter to the American population in the US.
It basically started in earnest when the US was assembling the 'coalition of the willing' in order to invade Iraq in 2002. Although the majority of the populations of most countries worldwide (and ironically, especially those within the coalition) were overwhelmingly against the prospect of their country participating, France was a security council permanent member and a historical US ally, and refused to support the war.
Of course this made the war on false pretexts look bad for the US administration, so they started making up petty insults about how France was inferior in x y z ways to save face, and hide the fact that it was a case of a government listening to the fact that it's population was against the war.
This was a huge media capaign, and almost overnight you'd see every network picking up on the act. Everything from them being lazy, to eating the wrong foods, to being communist, to having no 'entrepeneurial spirit' (presumably an insult to hardcore capitalists). I guess the bashing persisted in some form or another until now.
Yes because the French democracy started before the revolution? America had a few elections before the french ever thought of storming the Bastille and having bloody anarchy for years.
This is the attitude why French get bashed so much in America. Its really not as prevalent as people think but of course you're going to make fun of the people who are being dicks about things. It just doesn't make sense what frances reasoning was for not being an actual ally of america.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
what a crap post.
You assume alot about me, since I know plenty.
Being knowledgeable doens't mean I'll envy something.
Being envious has a negative connotation. He made it sound like american sit around hating on french, which is bs.
And your post is even more, bs. obvious hate in your post. nice try though.
Ok let me help you figure something out. Envy has a negative connotation but that's when you're envious of someone. Saying "they have nothing to get envious about", however, means that they're doing so badly, there's absolutely no reason why anybody should give in to envy for that country.
You're trying to spin this in your favor x_x...
Once again you assumed I meant it in a bad way
I didn't. I said we don't give a damn about them as in we don't sit around talking about the French all damn day or whatever the OP thinks. So if we're not talking about them we don't envy them because there is just no conversation about them.
Americans are too occupied with other stressful crap to sit around talking about the French.
Well I can't read your intention. Your words suggested that the French have nothing one could ever desire. Stop mocking my post because you can't convey clear ideas, this was obviously a misunderstanding.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
I think your attack is a bit premature. It's a pretty genuine question, and I've never heard anyone say they envy the French, except for cuisine and art museums. o.o As a Canadian, do you envy the French?
I believe the french language creates a rift between France and the outside world ever since it has lost the status of lingua franca.
It's not even limited to France. When I was in Geneva I felt like an idiot for not being able to speak French, just from the way people looked at me when I opened my mouth. All the while lots of international organizations are based there ...
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
Man, that's kind of unhealthy. Why should anyone envy anybody? His main point is correct, though. The US rarely talks about France in a serious setting, and French jokes are not very common, but can be used to great humorous because of our British-derived culture.
I would guess the US bashes France no more and no less than most other English-speaking countries.
that kid posted something totally non relevant. He basically implied if we knew more about the French, WE WOULD ENVY them. Because they are soooo much better than us etc.
What a joke of a post he made. Then he assumed I am some dumb redneck american probably that is uneducated etc. hahahah
He probably thinks he's real cool posting that. I didn't bash the French in my post, just simply stating nobody talks about the French in normal everyday american life.
You're avoiding my response and bending my words. YOUR post implied that "if you knew about the french" (which you don't), there wouldn't be ANYTHING to be envious about. My post said that there are some things about their country that you might be envious about, but you're not educated about them - doesn't keep you from voicing your ridiculous opinion.
Your post was a joke. And there's a reason why you have to refer to me as "that kid", that's all you got.
My post was not a joke. YOu threw insults at me.
I didn't see your last post, look ahead I responded. You assumed way too much in your first response and you basically insulted me. You extrapolated things in my first post that did not exist.
I didn't say we wouldn't be envious about anything, I said we are not talking about the French in our daily lives. There's nothing ridiculous I said.
YOu sure can dish out insults, but you can't take them huh.
On January 21 2012 21:33 CeroFail wrote: They're too nationalistic, arrogant and selfish. As such, people hate them and this can be seen by how apparently, French people are the most unpopular tourists.
L O L
Seriously, French people are everything but nationalist. Saying you are proud of your country in France equals looking like an old right winger fart. Compared to the Americans for example who most of the night never doubt their country is the incarnation of good on earth, French people are so so so not nationalists at all.
Arrogant, well if you say so. I lived in England 6 years, I haven't noticed they were less arrogant than the French (that's an understatement).
Now selfish, when you consider that we are the country where people would die rather than knowing that the hospitals or high quality education at every level isn't completely free, that's a funny statement. We are a country where the value of solidarity and equality are extremely important. Someone yelling "let him die", in the American republican primaries is the most shocking thing a French man can imagine.
Seriously, keep your racist clichés for yourself. I don't have such a high opinion of the business-oriented authoritative dictatorship Singapour is, but, see, I don't spread my prejudices around the forum.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
I think your attack is a bit premature. It's a pretty genuine question, and I've never heard anyone say they envy the French, except for cuisine and art museums. o.o As a Canadian, do you envy the French?
Thank you JIbba.
This guy insulted me right away when he assumed way more from my post.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
what a crap post.
You assume alot about me, since I know plenty.
Being knowledgeable doens't mean I'll envy something.
Being envious has a negative connotation. He made it sound like american sit around hating on french, which is bs.
And your post is even more, bs. obvious hate in your post. nice try though.
Ok let me help you figure something out. Envy has a negative connotation but that's when you're envious of someone. Saying "they have nothing to get envious about", however, means that they're doing so badly, there's absolutely no reason why anybody should give in to envy for that country.
You're trying to spin this in your favor x_x...
Once again you assumed I meant it in a bad way
I didn't. I said we don't give a damn about them as in we don't sit around talking about the French all damn day or whatever the OP thinks. So if we're not talking about them we don't envy them because there is just no conversation about them.
Americans are too occupied with other stressful crap to sit around talking about the French.
Well I can't read your intention. Your words suggested that the French have nothing one could ever desire. Stop mocking my post because you can't convey clear ideas, this was obviously a misunderstanding.
There's a big difference between cultural envy and personal desire. French food and wine is excellent, in many ways better than American cuisine, but it's hard to say that American culture should envy it when it's quite readily available in the US.
Well that's some bullshit about Germans and languages you got there 0.o Yeah old people here do suck at english, but younger people and those around 40 should be fine(even if it get's worse the older they are I think) and people are usually good enough in english so you can understand them, even if the accent annoys me. And what the hell do you mean with "inability to learn languages"? We learn english in every school here and 2 languages in the better schools(learned english and latin because I didn't wanna learn french and didn't want to attend another school for spanish or another language) And I doubt that there are many Germans who "visit your country and they start talking in their language." even older people rather use their broken english than german in situations like that(honestly, there's not even a little bit of truth in that, the only situation were I imagine that that's possible is if they go to a country like the netherlands, where good German would be easier understandable than the bad english of a 65 year old lady from here). And German tv shows are dubbed in german because we are the biggest tv and music market in europe so it pays off for the media industry to do so here.
Seriously man 'the fuck were you smokin' o.0?
EDIT: Smiled when I read your post again and your first on-topic sentence was "I don't know what to think of all the stereotypes, though I dislike the mindset of some countries"
I am dutch what do you think i am smoking But yea that is my experience so far you come here to dig holes on our beaches sadly drown allot and you speak broken/no English. I do not see the point in dubbing a Hollywood movie or Starcraft II for that matter.
Maybe you've only met uneducated idiots then and the reason why you dub a movie or a game is of course because people like things they are used to(like their language) And you'd probably see that point differently if you would've grown up with movies in your own language it's a luxury and maybe not a desperately needed one(I watch a lot of movies and shows in english, sometimes because I don't want to wait until they are dubbed and sometimes because thsoe versions are better, but sometimes the german dub is superior, the movie 300 for example ), but I'm still happy to live in a country where it's profitable for the firms to dub their shows
EDIT: Might be because AFAIK mostly old people go to the Netherlands for their vacation(if you ignore the idiots who make short visits there for weed)
I guess your right about it i mean i can't say your whole country is like that. With the experience i had that was the conclusion i made. Since i can say that because i was exposed to English shows and movies allot at young age i was actually able to learn from the shows. take for example Omelette du Fromage from Dexter.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
what a crap post.
You assume alot about me, since I know plenty.
Being knowledgeable doens't mean I'll envy something.
Being envious has a negative connotation. He made it sound like american sit around hating on french, which is bs.
And your post is even more, bs. obvious hate in your post. nice try though.
Ok let me help you figure something out. Envy has a negative connotation but that's when you're envious of someone. Saying "they have nothing to get envious about", however, means that they're doing so badly, there's absolutely no reason why anybody should give in to envy for that country.
You're trying to spin this in your favor x_x...
Once again you assumed I meant it in a bad way
I didn't. I said we don't give a damn about them as in we don't sit around talking about the French all damn day or whatever the OP thinks. So if we're not talking about them we don't envy them because there is just no conversation about them.
Americans are too occupied with other stressful crap to sit around talking about the French.
Well I can't read your intention. Your words suggested that the French have nothing one could ever desire. Stop mocking my post because you can't convey clear ideas, this was obviously a misunderstanding.
If you can't read my intention, maybe next time you shouldn't insult someone?
I don't see anything in my original post that outright insulted the French.
Just for the record, when I do hear French jokes, I just roll my eyes because frankly it's played out.
I'm pretty sure everyone makes fun of the French, not just us Americans. I've had European friends come online and tell me French jokes before. I had wondered if it was just an American thing before that, but they assured me it was not.
That said, nobody here really hates the French, and nobody really takes the jokes seriously. Its similar to how I always tell my Canadian friends that they are from America's hat, they all know I'm just kidding around and they usually just make some America joke back at me.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
I think your attack is a bit premature. It's a pretty genuine question, and I've never heard anyone say they envy the French, except for cuisine and art museums. o.o As a Canadian, do you envy the French?
Thank you JIbba.
This guy insulted me right away when he assumed way more from my post.
You didn't present yourself from your nicest side either though.
On January 22 2012 02:11 Thingdo wrote: I'm pretty sure everyone makes fun of the French, not just us Americans. I've had European friends come online and tell me French jokes before. I had wondered if it was just an American thing before that, but they assured me it was not.
That said, nobody here really hates the French, and nobody really takes the jokes seriously. Its similar to how I always tell my Canadian friends that they are from America's hat, they all know I'm just kidding around and they usually just make some America joke back at me.
THIS It's not an english thing, it's a european thing. Do you guys really think that England was the only country France always had trouble with?
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
I think your attack is a bit premature. It's a pretty genuine question, and I've never heard anyone say they envy the French, except for cuisine and art museums. o.o As a Canadian, do you envy the French?
Thank you JIbba.
This guy insulted me right away when he assumed way more from my post.
Well I'm sorry, but write better. Your post seemed like you were saying the French don't have anything good.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
I think your attack is a bit premature. It's a pretty genuine question, and I've never heard anyone say they envy the French, except for cuisine and art museums. o.o As a Canadian, do you envy the French?
Do I envy the French? Really? I'm a Quebecer, I'm stuck in a country filled with idiots who hate me because I speak the wrong language. I wish we had our own country.
I envy the French to a certain extent, and I figure that US citizen should - perhaps without being envious - look at France and realize that there are some things from their culture and their politics that should be considered. I mean, don't fool yourselves, the US's culture is... well... yeah.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
what a crap post.
You assume alot about me, since I know plenty.
Being knowledgeable doens't mean I'll envy something.
Being envious has a negative connotation. He made it sound like american sit around hating on french, which is bs.
And your post is even more, bs. obvious hate in your post. nice try though.
Ok let me help you figure something out. Envy has a negative connotation but that's when you're envious of someone. Saying "they have nothing to get envious about", however, means that they're doing so badly, there's absolutely no reason why anybody should give in to envy for that country.
You're trying to spin this in your favor x_x...
Once again you assumed I meant it in a bad way
I didn't. I said we don't give a damn about them as in we don't sit around talking about the French all damn day or whatever the OP thinks. So if we're not talking about them we don't envy them because there is just no conversation about them.
Americans are too occupied with other stressful crap to sit around talking about the French.
Well I can't read your intention. Your words suggested that the French have nothing one could ever desire. Stop mocking my post because you can't convey clear ideas, this was obviously a misunderstanding.
If you can't read my intention, maybe next time you shouldn't insult someone?
I don't see anything in my original post that outright insulted the French.
Just for the record, when I do hear French jokes, I just roll my eyes because frankly it's played out.
I insulted you based on the intention that I read from your post. It was written in such a way that the intention I wrongfully gave you was fully justified of me.
On January 22 2012 02:11 Thingdo wrote: I'm pretty sure everyone makes fun of the French, not just us Americans. I've had European friends come online and tell me French jokes before. I had wondered if it was just an American thing before that, but they assured me it was not.
That said, nobody here really hates the French, and nobody really takes the jokes seriously. Its similar to how I always tell my Canadian friends that they are from America's hat, they all know I'm just kidding around and they usually just make some America joke back at me.
Yes, Canada is probably the country America jokes most about, outside of itself. And generally Canadian jokes are hilarious.
On January 22 2012 02:13 Djzapz wrote: Do I envy the French? Really? I'm a Quebecer, I'm stuck in a country filled with idiots who hate me because I speak the wrong language. I wish we had our own country.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
I think your attack is a bit premature. It's a pretty genuine question, and I've never heard anyone say they envy the French, except for cuisine and art museums. o.o As a Canadian, do you envy the French?
Thank you JIbba.
This guy insulted me right away when he assumed way more from my post.
Well I'm sorry, but write better. Your post seemed like you were saying the French don't have anything good.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
I think your attack is a bit premature. It's a pretty genuine question, and I've never heard anyone say they envy the French, except for cuisine and art museums. o.o As a Canadian, do you envy the French?
Do I envy the French? Really? I'm a Quebecer, I'm stuck in a country filled with idiots who hate me because I speak the wrong language. I wish we had our own country.
I envy the French to a certain extent, and I figure that US citizen should - perhaps without being envious - look at France and realize that there are some things from their culture and their politics that should be considered. I mean, don't fool yourselves, the US's culture is... well... yeah.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
what a crap post.
You assume alot about me, since I know plenty.
Being knowledgeable doens't mean I'll envy something.
Being envious has a negative connotation. He made it sound like american sit around hating on french, which is bs.
And your post is even more, bs. obvious hate in your post. nice try though.
Ok let me help you figure something out. Envy has a negative connotation but that's when you're envious of someone. Saying "they have nothing to get envious about", however, means that they're doing so badly, there's absolutely no reason why anybody should give in to envy for that country.
You're trying to spin this in your favor x_x...
Once again you assumed I meant it in a bad way
I didn't. I said we don't give a damn about them as in we don't sit around talking about the French all damn day or whatever the OP thinks. So if we're not talking about them we don't envy them because there is just no conversation about them.
Americans are too occupied with other stressful crap to sit around talking about the French.
Well I can't read your intention. Your words suggested that the French have nothing one could ever desire. Stop mocking my post because you can't convey clear ideas, this was obviously a misunderstanding.
If you can't read my intention, maybe next time you shouldn't insult someone?
I don't see anything in my original post that outright insulted the French.
Just for the record, when I do hear French jokes, I just roll my eyes because frankly it's played out.
I insulted you based on the intention that I read from your post. It was written in such a way that the intention I wrongfully gave you was fully justified of me.
I will say, in no way do I think modern day US culture is good. A basic snapshot of US culture is horrible.
On January 22 2012 02:13 Djzapz wrote: Do I envy the French? Really? I'm a Quebecer, I'm stuck in a country filled with idiots who hate me because I speak the wrong language. I wish we had our own country.
There it is.
I'm confused, are you implying that that's my only reason and therefore it's invalid because you don't have that problem?
I think the thing is, the french are like that brother in the family that people like to pick on and make fun of just because he has alot of strong ideas and is slightly different. But we still love him. I honestly don't joke about countries I hate. So I don't think its really a serious thing.
EDIT: Aaaaaaand reading some of the other posts in this thread... I'm just gonna leave... ><
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
I think your attack is a bit premature. It's a pretty genuine question, and I've never heard anyone say they envy the French, except for cuisine and art museums. o.o As a Canadian, do you envy the French?
Are you serious?
French culture, literature, music, extraordinary amount of world class philosophers, thinkers, revolutionary spirit, fabulous buildings and architecture, highly educated population, rich traditions, world-famous art de vivre, fantastic transports, unique social system etc etc etc...
I don't say anybody should envy anybody. I admire a lot of countries, and I still think France is in many aspects an extraordinary place.
An American friend of mine told me a couple of month ago that he thought the only reason American despised Europe and France in particular was that they didn't know anything about it. I won't start myself to bash Americans, but when you know that 50% can't say where England is on a world map, you stop taking their prejudices very seriously.
On January 21 2012 23:10 Kukaracha wrote: Okay, so here's my "manly history" moment.
French are not cowards, in fact France has one of the most violent histories in the world, waging war after war against every neighbour, and even against most of Europe during Napoleonic times. It is utterly false to say that the french have a history of losing or retreating. In medieval times the english court spoke french as the ruling dynasty was Norman; the Frank kingdom was one of the most powerful at the time; and so was the French kingdom during the Renaissance, and during the Lumières, too. French patriots ousted all foreign troops when a coalition tried to restore the French royalty, while severely outnumbered. Historians have given France the nickname of the "European China", because of its huge population during medieval times. Even the 100-year war wasn't a conflict between France and England, but mostly between two dynasties, and the side of the Valois (France) was vastly outnumbered by the attacks of Burgandy, Brittany, Flanders and Portugal.
But the French army was humiliated during WW2, and even before that in 1870, and the peaceful statu quo carved this in stone. This is very bad for national pride, you know?
I always find it incredibly frustrating when people push forward the BS stereotype that the French are cowards and always lose. The French have probably had just as much conflict as any other European region, and I can only remember two wars that the French actually lost (Franco-Prussian and Napoleon's reign ended in defeat, but hell that doesn't even count as a loss). Not only that, France came up with the greatest military general in earth's history and the largest mainland European empire in the world's history (Napoleon the Great).
Actually having a bloody history is something negative in terms of manliness. Yeah I know that sounds like it doesn't make sense, but see it this way. Throughout history there have been badasses who nobody dared to fuck with, like the spartans in their hardcore period, although technically they've been constantly in war since they declared war every year on their slaves(yep). Or the Prussians, after the Soldier king modernized their army. That people wage wars on you actually just means that their leaders are idiots (French-Prussian-War) or that they think that they could win against you.
PS: Napoleon as the greatest military genius of the world?lol Oh and he was Italian(Corsica) and only rose so high because he was discriminated for being small and speaking with a weird accent as a child.
Napoleon wasn't only a military leader. He built an empire and a constitution out of nowhere, remember that.
Now, I find it pretty odd to be considered manly because you live in the middle of the ocean and no one can be bothered to attack you. Take Switzerland, for example. Are they badasses? No, they juste have a very difficult terrain, and there was very little to gain in conquering their lands. Thus no attacks.
Spartans were not peaceful, they attacked people and were attacked all the time, how do you think they got the army they had during the war of Peloponesia? Prussians were also involved in countless wars, I don't see what's manly about them neither. Being a smaller country, they did play a minor role in European politics, true.
The reason France, England, Spain, Portugual and the Italian cities were always at war was because they were the ones who decided the fate of the continent. And don't forget that there were small encounters every year or so, with many small actors siding with one side or the other (the German princes, small kingdoms, or city-states).
But the bottom line is that there is no manliness in such wars, since most of them did not concern the people (except when they were being murdered, raped and robbed regularly like Lorraine in 1600), not even "nations" but mostly cousins trying to kill each other over a valuable piece of land.
Truly no one in America hates France. Most of it starts from comedy shows or just in history class when we learn about WW2 + Show Spoiler +
The usual "Oh the french gave up blah blah blah)"
I don't think any Americans hate French people like my friends will say "oh hes French so he sucks." But they wont say that to a person if they were introduced. Its like how every other country makes fun of American's some of them mean it but i don't think most people mean ill will. Like i wouldn't go to France saying "France you pussies!" And i wouldn't expect a French person to go to america and say "America you fuck ups!"
And well honestly i think America gets bashed wayyyyy more than France. Like i've given up hope on threads that just bash American's no one likes us i get it.
Errr people from America calling the french "too nationalist" are...misinformed ? You don't have to say the pledge and sing the national anthem every morning in french schools.... (don't tell me this doesn't happen, it happens in the big majority of schools in the US). Also try burning an american flag anywhere in the US. Try burning a french flag in France. Most people wouldn't give a fuck, annoyance at most, and in some places (herp shitty suburbs) you'd be applauded.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
I think your attack is a bit premature. It's a pretty genuine question, and I've never heard anyone say they envy the French, except for cuisine and art museums. o.o As a Canadian, do you envy the French?
Are you serious?
French culture, literature, music, extraordinary amount of world class philosophers, thinkers, revolutionary spirit, fabulous buildings and architecture, highly educated population, rich traditions, world-famous art de vivre, fantastic transports, unique social system etc etc etc...
I don't say anybody should envy anybody. I admire a lot of countries, and I still think France is in many aspects an extraordinary place.
There's a difference between extraordinary things and enviable things. Everyone across the world has access to French musicians, artists, philosophers, etc. therefore they are not enviable.
On January 22 2012 02:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 22 2012 02:06 Jibba wrote:
On January 22 2012 01:53 Djzapz wrote:
On January 22 2012 01:52 jj33 wrote:
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
I think your attack is a bit premature. It's a pretty genuine question, and I've never heard anyone say they envy the French, except for cuisine and art museums. o.o As a Canadian, do you envy the French?
Are you serious?
French culture, literature, music, extraordinary amount of world class philosophers, thinkers, revolutionary spirit, fabulous buildings and architecture, highly educated population, rich traditions, world-famous art de vivre, fantastic transports, unique social system etc etc etc...
I don't say anybody should envy anybody. I admire a lot of countries, and I still think France is in many aspects an extraordinary place.
There's a difference between extraordinary things and enviable things. Everyone across the world has access to French musicians, artists, philosophers, etc. therefore they are not enviable.
Fine. Nobody should envy anybody. We agree. I don't really see anyway, according to what you say, what could ever be enviable in a country.
Anyway, it doesn't make people's prejudices and ignorance better.
On January 22 2012 02:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 22 2012 02:06 Jibba wrote:
On January 22 2012 01:53 Djzapz wrote:
On January 22 2012 01:52 jj33 wrote:
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
I think your attack is a bit premature. It's a pretty genuine question, and I've never heard anyone say they envy the French, except for cuisine and art museums. o.o As a Canadian, do you envy the French?
Are you serious?
French culture, literature, music, extraordinary amount of world class philosophers, thinkers, revolutionary spirit, fabulous buildings and architecture, highly educated population, rich traditions, world-famous art de vivre, fantastic transports, unique social system etc etc etc...
I don't say anybody should envy anybody. I admire a lot of countries, and I still think France is in many aspects an extraordinary place.
There's a difference between extraordinary things and enviable things. Everyone across the world has access to French musicians, artists, philosophers, etc. therefore they are not enviable.
I think what he meant was that the prestige of being the place where all the artists, philosophers, etc were is what is enviable.
Dude I'm here to bash the French of League of Legends, they are not on par with other players. They prove it time and time again that this stereotyping is correct o.o
France bashing comes out of American insecurity and is really stupid, but I must admit that I've always had a fondness for the insult "cheese eating surrender monkey". It's just so wordy.
On January 21 2012 23:10 Kukaracha wrote: Okay, so here's my "manly history" moment.
French are not cowards, in fact France has one of the most violent histories in the world, waging war after war against every neighbour, and even against most of Europe during Napoleonic times. It is utterly false to say that the french have a history of losing or retreating. In medieval times the english court spoke french as the ruling dynasty was Norman; the Frank kingdom was one of the most powerful at the time; and so was the French kingdom during the Renaissance, and during the Lumières, too. French patriots ousted all foreign troops when a coalition tried to restore the French royalty, while severely outnumbered. Historians have given France the nickname of the "European China", because of its huge population during medieval times. Even the 100-year war wasn't a conflict between France and England, but mostly between two dynasties, and the side of the Valois (France) was vastly outnumbered by the attacks of Burgandy, Brittany, Flanders and Portugal.
But the French army was humiliated during WW2, and even before that in 1870, and the peaceful statu quo carved this in stone. This is very bad for national pride, you know?
I always find it incredibly frustrating when people push forward the BS stereotype that the French are cowards and always lose. The French have probably had just as much conflict as any other European region, and I can only remember two wars that the French actually lost (Franco-Prussian and Napoleon's reign ended in defeat, but hell that doesn't even count as a loss). Not only that, France came up with the greatest military general in earth's history and the largest mainland European empire in the world's history (Napoleon the Great).
Actually having a bloody history is something negative in terms of manliness. Yeah I know that sounds like it doesn't make sense, but see it this way. Throughout history there have been badasses who nobody dared to fuck with, like the spartans in their hardcore period, although technically they've been constantly in war since they declared war every year on their slaves(yep). Or the Prussians, after the Soldier king modernized their army. That people wage wars on you actually just means that their leaders are idiots (French-Prussian-War) or that they think that they could win against you.
PS: Napoleon as the greatest military genius of the world?lol Oh and he was Italian(Corsica) and only rose so high because he was discriminated for being small and speaking with a weird accent as a child.
Napoleon wasn't only a military leader. He built an empire and a constitution out of nowhere, remember that.
Now, I find it pretty odd to be considered manly because you live in the middle of the ocean and no one can be bothered to attack you. Take Switzerland, for example. Are they badasses? No, they juste have a very difficult terrain, and there was very little to gain in conquering their lands. Thus no attacks.
Spartans were not peaceful, they attacked people and were attacked all the time, how do you think they got the army they had during the war of Peloponesia? Prussians were also involved in countless wars, I don't see what's manly about them neither. Being a smaller country, they did play a minor role in European politics, true.
The reason France, England, Spain, Portugual and the Italian cities were always at war was because they were the ones who decided the fate of the continent. And don't forget that there were small encounters every year or so, with many small actors siding with one side or the other (the German princes, small kingdoms, or city-states).
But the bottom line is that there is no manliness in such wars, since most of them did not concern the people (except when they were being murdered, raped and robbed regularly like Lorraine in 1600), not even "nations" but mostly cousins trying to kill each other over a valuable piece of land.
I said that wars were usually considered manly, not that they are And I said that if you're hard enough that nobody fucks with you, that's manly not that if nobody wages wars on you you're manly. And prussia had way less wars than England and France for example... And I never said that Spartans were peacefull, I even mentioned that they were constantly in a war, I just said that people didn't fuck with them AND I talked about prussia after the Soldier King who modernized the Prussian Army and made it the best of the continent, which was btw the same army and the same militarism which made Prussia the mightiest power in europe and made it possible to unify Germany.
So... yeah learn to read -.-
EDIT: Oh and I know about the Code Napoleon and his other accomplishments and still think he's overrated
On January 22 2012 02:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 22 2012 02:06 Jibba wrote:
On January 22 2012 01:53 Djzapz wrote:
On January 22 2012 01:52 jj33 wrote:
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
I think your attack is a bit premature. It's a pretty genuine question, and I've never heard anyone say they envy the French, except for cuisine and art museums. o.o As a Canadian, do you envy the French?
Are you serious?
French culture, literature, music, extraordinary amount of world class philosophers, thinkers, revolutionary spirit, fabulous buildings and architecture, highly educated population, rich traditions, world-famous art de vivre, fantastic transports, unique social system etc etc etc...
I don't say anybody should envy anybody. I admire a lot of countries, and I still think France is in many aspects an extraordinary place.
There's a difference between extraordinary things and enviable things. Everyone across the world has access to French musicians, artists, philosophers, etc. therefore they are not enviable.
I don't know, I went to the Louvre and I didn't have access to that here in Canada. I had access to wine, food and cute ladies with their adorable accent (or lack thereof, they would say) - who btw do shave their armpits. I had access to the Eiffel tower which I climbed on foot because I'm insane. I went to the Champs-Élysées, saw the Arc de Triomphe...
Pictures of art and monuments has nothing to do with being there and interacting with the people and the environment.
On January 22 2012 02:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 22 2012 02:06 Jibba wrote:
On January 22 2012 01:53 Djzapz wrote:
On January 22 2012 01:52 jj33 wrote:
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
I think your attack is a bit premature. It's a pretty genuine question, and I've never heard anyone say they envy the French, except for cuisine and art museums. o.o As a Canadian, do you envy the French?
Are you serious?
French culture, literature, music, extraordinary amount of world class philosophers, thinkers, revolutionary spirit, fabulous buildings and architecture, highly educated population, rich traditions, world-famous art de vivre, fantastic transports, unique social system etc etc etc...
I don't say anybody should envy anybody. I admire a lot of countries, and I still think France is in many aspects an extraordinary place.
There's a difference between extraordinary things and enviable things. Everyone across the world has access to French musicians, artists, philosophers, etc. therefore they are not enviable.
Fine. Nobody should envy anybody. We agree. I don't really see anyway, according to what you say, what could ever be enviable in a country.
Anyway, it doesn't make people's prejudices and ignorance better.
There's reason to envy countries, but envy is a function of desire and availability. Most parts of most countries have been globalized, so availability is no longer an issue.
On January 22 2012 02:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 22 2012 02:06 Jibba wrote:
On January 22 2012 01:53 Djzapz wrote:
On January 22 2012 01:52 jj33 wrote:
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
I think your attack is a bit premature. It's a pretty genuine question, and I've never heard anyone say they envy the French, except for cuisine and art museums. o.o As a Canadian, do you envy the French?
Are you serious?
French culture, literature, music, extraordinary amount of world class philosophers, thinkers, revolutionary spirit, fabulous buildings and architecture, highly educated population, rich traditions, world-famous art de vivre, fantastic transports, unique social system etc etc etc...
I don't say anybody should envy anybody. I admire a lot of countries, and I still think France is in many aspects an extraordinary place.
There's a difference between extraordinary things and enviable things. Everyone across the world has access to French musicians, artists, philosophers, etc. therefore they are not enviable.
I don't know, I went to the Louvre and I didn't have access to that here in Canada. I had access to wine, food and cute ladies with their adorable accent (or lack thereof, they would say) - who btw do shave their armpits. I had access to the Eiffel tower which I climbed on foot because I'm insane. I went to the Champs-Élysées, saw the Arc de Triomphe...
Pictures of art and monuments has nothing to do with being there and interacting with the people and the environment.
Wow, and it's almost as if I said France's art museums are enviable in my original post!
On January 22 2012 02:22 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 22 2012 02:20 Jibba wrote:
On January 22 2012 02:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 22 2012 02:06 Jibba wrote:
On January 22 2012 01:53 Djzapz wrote:
On January 22 2012 01:52 jj33 wrote:
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
I think your attack is a bit premature. It's a pretty genuine question, and I've never heard anyone say they envy the French, except for cuisine and art museums. o.o As a Canadian, do you envy the French?
Are you serious?
French culture, literature, music, extraordinary amount of world class philosophers, thinkers, revolutionary spirit, fabulous buildings and architecture, highly educated population, rich traditions, world-famous art de vivre, fantastic transports, unique social system etc etc etc...
I don't say anybody should envy anybody. I admire a lot of countries, and I still think France is in many aspects an extraordinary place.
There's a difference between extraordinary things and enviable things. Everyone across the world has access to French musicians, artists, philosophers, etc. therefore they are not enviable.
Fine. Nobody should envy anybody. We agree. I don't really see anyway, according to what you say, what could ever be enviable in a country.
Anyway, it doesn't make people's prejudices and ignorance better.
There's reason to envy countries, but envy is a function of desire and availability. Most parts of most countries have been globalized, so availability is no longer an issue.
Look, in the way that it was brought forward, the word "envy" can be replaced with the word "want" or something. The negative connotation is unimportant because it's a human problem. The fact that nobody should envy anybody is irrelevant - the fact is that they inevitably be envious provided that there are things they want.
On January 22 2012 02:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 22 2012 02:06 Jibba wrote:
On January 22 2012 01:53 Djzapz wrote:
On January 22 2012 01:52 jj33 wrote:
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
I think your attack is a bit premature. It's a pretty genuine question, and I've never heard anyone say they envy the French, except for cuisine and art museums. o.o As a Canadian, do you envy the French?
Are you serious?
French culture, literature, music, extraordinary amount of world class philosophers, thinkers, revolutionary spirit, fabulous buildings and architecture, highly educated population, rich traditions, world-famous art de vivre, fantastic transports, unique social system etc etc etc...
I don't say anybody should envy anybody. I admire a lot of countries, and I still think France is in many aspects an extraordinary place.
There's a difference between extraordinary things and enviable things. Everyone across the world has access to French musicians, artists, philosophers, etc. therefore they are not enviable.
I don't know, I went to the Louvre and I didn't have access to that here in Canada. I had access to wine, food and cute ladies with their adorable accent (or lack thereof, they would say) - who btw do shave their armpits. I had access to the Eiffel tower which I climbed on foot because I'm insane. I went to the Champs-Élysées, saw the Arc de Triomphe...
Pictures of art and monuments has nothing to do with being there and interacting with the people and the environment.
Wow, and it's almost as if I said France's art museums are enviable in my original post!
God, you keep doing that... I mentioned a few examples and you pick the one that you mentioned too. Yeah man just ignore everything else.
The only bigger assholes outside of France french people are Quebec french people. I hope they leave Canada for good as they are just a bunch of whining liberal wastes of money. We're keeping Montreal though.
The reason people dislike France french people so much is because they are cowards and didn't even try to put up a fight against the Germans in WW2.
On January 22 2012 02:27 Rabbet wrote: The only bigger assholes outside of France french people are Quebec french people. I hope they leave Canada for good as they are just a bunch of whining liberal wastes of money. We're keeping Montreal though.
The reason people dislike France french people so much is because they are cowards and didn't even try to put up a fight against the Germans in WW2.
That's not very nice. Pretty sure you out-asshole most of us French Canadians right now.
On January 22 2012 02:22 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 22 2012 02:20 Jibba wrote:
On January 22 2012 02:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 22 2012 02:06 Jibba wrote:
On January 22 2012 01:53 Djzapz wrote:
On January 22 2012 01:52 jj33 wrote:
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
I think your attack is a bit premature. It's a pretty genuine question, and I've never heard anyone say they envy the French, except for cuisine and art museums. o.o As a Canadian, do you envy the French?
Are you serious?
French culture, literature, music, extraordinary amount of world class philosophers, thinkers, revolutionary spirit, fabulous buildings and architecture, highly educated population, rich traditions, world-famous art de vivre, fantastic transports, unique social system etc etc etc...
I don't say anybody should envy anybody. I admire a lot of countries, and I still think France is in many aspects an extraordinary place.
There's a difference between extraordinary things and enviable things. Everyone across the world has access to French musicians, artists, philosophers, etc. therefore they are not enviable.
Fine. Nobody should envy anybody. We agree. I don't really see anyway, according to what you say, what could ever be enviable in a country.
Anyway, it doesn't make people's prejudices and ignorance better.
There's reason to envy countries, but envy is a function of desire and availability. Most parts of most countries have been globalized, so availability is no longer an issue.
Look, in the way that it was brought forward, the word "envy" can be replaced with the word "want" or something.
Americans envy the French in every way possible
No, it really can't. In either context, it doesn't make sense.
This whole thing was started because of you jumping on a guy who questioned that original response. You're the aggressor.
Lol @ Europeans saying what Americans think about other Europeans? Wtf?
France has had about....oh idk a few millenium to develop a strong culture, certainly a stronger culture than Americans have. I have no idea what all this about us hating French people or whatever silliness people are posting.
On January 22 2012 02:27 Rabbet wrote: The only bigger assholes outside of France french people are Quebec french people. I hope they leave Canada for good as they are just a bunch of whining liberal wastes of money. We're keeping Montreal though.
The reason people dislike France french people so much is because they are cowards and didn't even try to put up a fight against the Germans in WW2.
A sad statement about your historical knowledge. And why is there so much canadian hate in this thread?
On January 21 2012 21:33 CeroFail wrote: They're too nationalistic, arrogant and selfish. As such, people hate them and this can be seen by how apparently, French people are the most unpopular tourists.
Can't we all agree that everybody bashes on every country even their own! I honestly only think America gets a little more "special" treatment because we are a global leader and have made some questionable decisions withing the last decade. But i can guarantee theres not a single country that doesn't get made fun of, hell even Switzerland gets made fun of for not doing anything.
On January 22 2012 02:22 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 22 2012 02:20 Jibba wrote:
On January 22 2012 02:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 22 2012 02:06 Jibba wrote:
On January 22 2012 01:53 Djzapz wrote:
On January 22 2012 01:52 jj33 wrote:
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
I think your attack is a bit premature. It's a pretty genuine question, and I've never heard anyone say they envy the French, except for cuisine and art museums. o.o As a Canadian, do you envy the French?
Are you serious?
French culture, literature, music, extraordinary amount of world class philosophers, thinkers, revolutionary spirit, fabulous buildings and architecture, highly educated population, rich traditions, world-famous art de vivre, fantastic transports, unique social system etc etc etc...
I don't say anybody should envy anybody. I admire a lot of countries, and I still think France is in many aspects an extraordinary place.
There's a difference between extraordinary things and enviable things. Everyone across the world has access to French musicians, artists, philosophers, etc. therefore they are not enviable.
Fine. Nobody should envy anybody. We agree. I don't really see anyway, according to what you say, what could ever be enviable in a country.
Anyway, it doesn't make people's prejudices and ignorance better.
There's reason to envy countries, but envy is a function of desire and availability. Most parts of most countries have been globalized, so availability is no longer an issue.
Look, in the way that it was brought forward, the word "envy" can be replaced with the word "want" or something.
No, it really can't. In either context, it doesn't make sense.
This whole thing was started because of you jumping on a guy who questioned that original response. You're the aggressor.
-Americans envy the French in every way possible [not true] -Americans don't envy the French in any way ever, but I know nothing about the French [not true] -(My response) Americans can envy the French, what the hell are you talking about? [true, a little bit rude]
I didn't attack anybody who didn't at least seem like the were "attacking" France by depicting it as a wasteland with nothing that anybody could ever want.
On January 21 2012 21:40 hypercube wrote: American bashing French for "surrendering" or being cowards is just pathetic. It's just that France didn't support a certain policy (that turned out to be a disaster anyway) and it was Republicans' way of getting back at them. That's some fourth grade shit right there.
You do realize that, with a few exceptions for the stupid, statements like that are not to be taken as serious? Given the relatively poor performance of the French in recent major wars it should be expected....
The "American fries" joke was mocked by everyone with half a brain in our country too anyway bro....
Show me a nation that dosent have some kind of foul banter going on with another nation... Finnish call swedish males 100% gay even tho we know that they are still reproducing(for much of our surprise.) It is mostly fun and harmless banter thats coming from both sides of the border and there is really nothing you can do about it. Even if you did proof that french are nothing like what is said about them, a new joke would arise till you run out of possible combinations of english words.
Personally i think that people shouldnt really care about this kind of "humor," it may be in a bad taste and uncalled for, but it is still *joking,* as in not to be taken seriously.
On January 22 2012 02:22 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 22 2012 02:20 Jibba wrote:
On January 22 2012 02:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 22 2012 02:06 Jibba wrote:
On January 22 2012 01:53 Djzapz wrote:
On January 22 2012 01:52 jj33 wrote: [quote]
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.
Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
I think your attack is a bit premature. It's a pretty genuine question, and I've never heard anyone say they envy the French, except for cuisine and art museums. o.o As a Canadian, do you envy the French?
Are you serious?
French culture, literature, music, extraordinary amount of world class philosophers, thinkers, revolutionary spirit, fabulous buildings and architecture, highly educated population, rich traditions, world-famous art de vivre, fantastic transports, unique social system etc etc etc...
I don't say anybody should envy anybody. I admire a lot of countries, and I still think France is in many aspects an extraordinary place.
There's a difference between extraordinary things and enviable things. Everyone across the world has access to French musicians, artists, philosophers, etc. therefore they are not enviable.
Fine. Nobody should envy anybody. We agree. I don't really see anyway, according to what you say, what could ever be enviable in a country.
Anyway, it doesn't make people's prejudices and ignorance better.
There's reason to envy countries, but envy is a function of desire and availability. Most parts of most countries have been globalized, so availability is no longer an issue.
Look, in the way that it was brought forward, the word "envy" can be replaced with the word "want" or something.
Americans envy the French in every way possible
No, it really can't. In either context, it doesn't make sense.
This whole thing was started because of you jumping on a guy who questioned that original response. You're the aggressor.
-Americans envy the French in every way possible [not true] -Americans don't envy the French in any way ever, but I know nothing about the French [not true] -(My response) Americans can envy the French, what the hell are you talking about? [true, a little bit rude]
I didn't attack anybody who didn't at least seem like the were "attacking" France by depicting it as a wasteland with nothing that anybody could ever want.
Aka you misinterpreted his wording and then called him an idiot.
On January 22 2012 02:22 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 22 2012 02:20 Jibba wrote:
On January 22 2012 02:17 Biff The Understudy wrote:
On January 22 2012 02:06 Jibba wrote:
On January 22 2012 01:53 Djzapz wrote: [quote] Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.
I think your attack is a bit premature. It's a pretty genuine question, and I've never heard anyone say they envy the French, except for cuisine and art museums. o.o As a Canadian, do you envy the French?
Are you serious?
French culture, literature, music, extraordinary amount of world class philosophers, thinkers, revolutionary spirit, fabulous buildings and architecture, highly educated population, rich traditions, world-famous art de vivre, fantastic transports, unique social system etc etc etc...
I don't say anybody should envy anybody. I admire a lot of countries, and I still think France is in many aspects an extraordinary place.
There's a difference between extraordinary things and enviable things. Everyone across the world has access to French musicians, artists, philosophers, etc. therefore they are not enviable.
Fine. Nobody should envy anybody. We agree. I don't really see anyway, according to what you say, what could ever be enviable in a country.
Anyway, it doesn't make people's prejudices and ignorance better.
There's reason to envy countries, but envy is a function of desire and availability. Most parts of most countries have been globalized, so availability is no longer an issue.
Look, in the way that it was brought forward, the word "envy" can be replaced with the word "want" or something.
Americans envy the French in every way possible
No, it really can't. In either context, it doesn't make sense.
This whole thing was started because of you jumping on a guy who questioned that original response. You're the aggressor.
-Americans envy the French in every way possible [not true] -Americans don't envy the French in any way ever, but I know nothing about the French [not true] -(My response) Americans can envy the French, what the hell are you talking about? [true, a little bit rude]
I didn't attack anybody who didn't at least seem like the were "attacking" France by depicting it as a wasteland with nothing that anybody could ever want.
Aka you misinterpreted his wording and then called him an idiot.
I interpreted his wording perfectly, he didn't word it properly. I can't just guess that his intentions were completely different from the words he put in his post. I never called him an idiot but I guess I might have implied it.
its interesting that the person saying people should envy France is embodying the very stereotype, arrogant nationalist, that turns so many people off from that country.
So you went site seeing and saw cute girls (the examples Jibba did not address, man). I'm sure that experience has been had in literally every country at least once. The world is a pretty cool looking place overall. And girls with accents are cute. That's not a reason to envy France
I don't think the French bashing is based on envy. French people saying that is the same as when we Americans claimed the terrorists hated us for our freedoms, just a ridiculous claim to tar our enemy while making us feel good about ourselves at the same time.
People hate on the French for the same reasons any group is picked on. First because it makes us feel better about ourselves to hate an others. Second, because the jokes can be funny. Third because we can be idiots sometimes.
i dont personally dislike the french but its frustrating to attempt to talk to a frenchman and his first natural instinct is to cower and run away... i really wish the current french didnt have such cowards for ancestors. i just wanted to know the time of day and this dude ran away...
On January 22 2012 02:40 Papulatus wrote: Reading through this thread I think I can conclude that US bashing is MUCH MUCH worse than any "French bashing" that happens in the US
You cant conclude anything from this tread. Also US bashing is just shit on internet from kids, every politician tread carefully speaking with USA.
On January 22 2012 02:34 exog wrote: They were overrun/lost in ww1, ww2, algerie and vietnam. Thats where the cowardness jokes come from.
Tourists have bad experiences when the french refuse to speak english to non-french-speakers.
I'm pretty sure any other Allied nation would have ended up surrendering if they bordered Germany. It is real easy to talk tough when you've got the English Channel or the the fucking Atlantic Ocean making you virtually immune to a German invasion.
I've never understood why France gets flak for surrendering but nobody ever talks about Italy...
[QUOTE]On January 22 2012 02:38 Djzapz wrote: [QUOTE]On January 22 2012 02:37 Jibba wrote: [QUOTE]On January 22 2012 02:33 Djzapz wrote: [QUOTE]On January 22 2012 02:30 Jibba wrote: [QUOTE]On January 22 2012 02:27 Djzapz wrote: [QUOTE]On January 22 2012 02:24 Jibba wrote: [QUOTE]On January 22 2012 02:22 Biff The Understudy wrote: [QUOTE]On January 22 2012 02:20 Jibba wrote: [QUOTE]On January 22 2012 02:17 Biff The Understudy wrote: [QUOTE]On January 22 2012 02:06 Jibba wrote: [QUOTE]On January 22 2012 01:53 Djzapz wrote: [QUOTE]On January 22 2012 01:52 jj33 wrote: [QUOTE]On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.[/QUOTE]
I'm American, what do we envy about the French?
Genuine question here, I don't know anybody here in the states who gives a damn about the French much less envy them.[/QUOTE] Presumably, a lot of people are like you and they don't know anything, then they post about it. Why don't you envy anyone else? Because you haven't bothered to educate yourself about countries which aren't your own. Edit: And you probably don't know all that much about the US either, in all likelihood.[/QUOTE]
This guy professes ignorance and asks a question. You respond to him by bashing him for his self proclaimed ignorance to France, fail to address his question, then edit your post to bash his knowledge in general (something you had no reason to do). You were rude, there was no error his wording imo.
On January 22 2012 02:34 exog wrote: They were overrun/lost in ww1, ww2, algerie and vietnam. Thats where the cowardness jokes come from.
Tourists have bad experiences when the french refuse to speak english to non-french-speakers.
I'm pretty sure any other Allied nation would have ended up surrendering if they bordered Germany. It is real easy to talk tough when you've got the English Channel or the the fucking Atlantic Ocean making you virtually immune to a German invasion.
I've never understood why France gets flak for surrendering but nobody ever talks about Italy...
People actually take french jokes seriously? Man when i get insulted as a nazi i just facepalm my way out of that conversation. The more u get mad about french jokes the more people will enjoy making them^^
This guy professes ignorance and asks a question. You respond to him by bashing him for his self proclaimed ignorance to France, fail to address his question, then edit your post to bash his knowledge in general (something you had no reason to do). You were rude, there was no error his wording imo.
I went on and gave a few examples of things that Americans could want from France - cultural and political things. His question was answered. Still, I support my "opinion" that his wording suggested that he couldn't fathom France having anything desirable for any Americans ever.
That said, I demoted my stance to "opinion" because it seems like a lot of people are opposed to it. Maybe I just can't read English even though I write better than most Americans.
On January 22 2012 02:47 Jibba wrote: Just so people are aware, there's a difference between the jokes people are making about running away, and really stupid serious lines like:
On January 22 2012 02:34 exog wrote: They were overrun/lost in ww1, ww2, algerie and vietnam. Thats where the cowardness jokes come from.
Tourists have bad experiences when the french refuse to speak english to non-french-speakers.
I'm pretty sure any other Allied nation would have ended up surrendering if they bordered Germany. It is real easy to talk tough when you've got the English Channel or the the fucking Atlantic Ocean making you virtually immune to a German invasion.
I've never understood why France gets flak for surrendering but nobody ever talks about Italy...
Italy were allied with Germany. Also, Italy wasn't considered a "superpower" at the time.
On January 22 2012 02:34 exog wrote: They were overrun/lost in ww1, ww2, algerie and vietnam. Thats where the cowardness jokes come from.
Tourists have bad experiences when the french refuse to speak english to non-french-speakers.
I'm pretty sure any other Allied nation would have ended up surrendering if they bordered Germany. It is real easy to talk tough when you've got the English Channel or the the fucking Atlantic Ocean making you virtually immune to a German invasion.
I've never understood why France gets flak for surrendering but nobody ever talks about Italy...
Italy were allied with Germany. Also, Italy wasn't considered a "superpower" at the time.
Exactly, were allied. Then we attacked them and they surrendered and joined us. Same thing happened in WW1 as well.
Surrendering when your country is overrun is pretty different from surrendering the moment you are attacked and joining the enemy team.
On January 22 2012 02:47 Jibba wrote: Just so people are aware, there's a difference between the jokes people are making about running away, and really stupid serious lines like:
Reality Check: If it wasn't for us and USA, they would be speaking German.
That's the reason for the warning.
Its probably true. Its very possible that the allies would have lost in europe without the americans.
"If it wasn't for _______" regarding any of the world wars is stupid. You could just as easily say "If it wasn't for France, the USA wouldn't exist." It's a passive aggressive oversimplification to make one side seem overly generous, when in reality every side contributes to one another.
On January 22 2012 02:53 FoeHamr wrote: The only French guy I have ever met was a total asshole. That being said i'm not gonna judge the whole country.
On January 22 2012 02:47 Jibba wrote: Just so people are aware, there's a difference between the jokes people are making about running away, and really stupid serious lines like:
Reality Check: If it wasn't for us and USA, they would be speaking German.
That's the reason for the warning.
Im sorry, but I honestly cannot see how that line is stupid. France had been conquered and we (Britain) were in no position to fight Germany on the ground. If Germany didn't invade Russia and the USA didn't get involved, I have a feeling that Hitler would have tried to make everyone under German rule speak the German language as he was trying to make a Germanic Empire.
Am I wrong?
Also, about the jokes. That was light hearted banter, nothing more.
I hear lots of jokes but most jokes about French cowardice are misguided and show an ignorance about history. But the ribbing has always been about how quickly France went from a Great Power to a second rate power and how much the French refused to acknowledge it. Yes, France is still the ninth largest economy in the world, but their economy today is half the size of Japan's, 20% of China's, and ~15% of the US.
This has only gotten worse as the French government had a somewhat contentious attitude toward the US during the Cold War. France and the US are allies but they disagree greatly on opinions toward the shape of society, foreign policy, etc. Even today, France is good at pointing out that Americans claim to be this great, altruistic nation, but almost everything they do is self-serving, bull-headed, and sometimes not good for the global community. They're not always right, but I think it's a good thing to have allies like that.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
Open a history book, maybe?
What do you disagree with?
French causing WW2 maybe? I mean, it's wrong on so many levels I feel someone is trying to tell me the earth was square.
Sure, France lost, plainly and simply, the war. But how is that the cause of the war itself? What kind of odd twisted logic is this?
Edit: I mean, shall I remind you that Swede was neutral during the conflict and collaborated with the Wehrmach in many occasions?
Peace of versailles. The massive debt put on Germany after WW1 was illadviced, and caused a massive meltdown of the German economy that lasted until WW2 basically. That combined with the French pillage made Hitler's promise of revenge popular enough to rise to power. The lust for revenge was central in Hitler's ideology, and is mainly what made it so popular.
Well tell me, was this a decision made by the French people, a consequence of the behaviour of the French army, or simply a consequence of Clemenceau's political views, and his alone?
There was a sizable French population that were anti-German to the point where they wanted France to immediately go back to war with the Germans even prior to WWI. They were very, very bitter about the Franco-Prussian War.
This raises an interesting point; if the french caused WW2, then didn't the germans push them to do so by provoking France into a war simply to... unify Germany (1870)?
See where this kind of logic takes you?
It still leads back to France for trying to prevent Germany from unifying =p
This thread is just beyond fucking stupid though: Let's use terrible inductive reasoning to generalize an attribute we have observed in a small sample size of a population to a general population of hundreds of millions, then argue about what motivates the attribute. Just stupid.
On January 22 2012 02:47 Jibba wrote: Just so people are aware, there's a difference between the jokes people are making about running away, and really stupid serious lines like:
On January 22 2012 02:47 Jibba wrote: Just so people are aware, there's a difference between the jokes people are making about running away, and really stupid serious lines like:
Reality Check: If it wasn't for us and USA, they would be speaking German.
That's the reason for the warning.
Its probably true. Its very possible that the allies would have lost in europe without the americans.
If it wasn't for the the Americans, we would speak Russian now, not German. The soviets were already winning their front pretty hard by the time the allies created the western front.
What makes many germans have suspect feelings about France: -Sarkozy who behaves like a cowboy. -(Maybe just in my case) A left-party opposition which is full of egoists who refuse to work together, making conservative Jospin and right-wing Le Pen being the candidates for 2nd round of presidential elections in 2002, despite an overall left majority. -French people striking for fun. -You have Eurodisney, we don't. -European Union having english and french as main languages, despite more (native) german-speakers than francophones in the Union. -In german schools you are basically forced to learn french (at "higher" schools), unless you choose Latin or your school happens to offer another language. However, most germans would prefer to learn/have learned spanish or, to a lesser degree, italian. Spanish is seen as a world-language, whereas french loks like a language who becomes less and less important. -French courses in school are basically 50% about nazi-occupied france, after you learned grammatics and such. Not a topic that invkoes the most positive feelings. -Guess how german children feel when they hear stories about french schools were learning foreign languages is said to be optional (don't know whether this is true).
On January 22 2012 02:47 Jibba wrote: Just so people are aware, there's a difference between the jokes people are making about running away, and really stupid serious lines like:
Reality Check: If it wasn't for us and USA, they would be speaking German.
That's the reason for the warning.
Its probably true. Its very possible that the allies would have lost in europe without the americans.
If it wasn't for the the Americans, we would speak Russian now, not German. The soviets were already winning their front pretty hard by the time the allies created the western front.
The combine forces of all Euro countries could have easily beat Russia.
On January 22 2012 02:47 Jibba wrote: Just so people are aware, there's a difference between the jokes people are making about running away, and really stupid serious lines like:
Reality Check: If it wasn't for us and USA, they would be speaking German.
That's the reason for the warning.
Its probably true. Its very possible that the allies would have lost in europe without the americans.
If it wasn't for the the Americans, we would speak Russian now, not German. The soviets were already winning their front pretty hard by the time the allies created the western front.
You're perpetuating stupidity by continuing the chain of crystal-ball predictions of alternate history as legitimate arguments.
On January 22 2012 02:47 Jibba wrote: Just so people are aware, there's a difference between the jokes people are making about running away, and really stupid serious lines like:
Reality Check: If it wasn't for us and USA, they would be speaking German.
That's the reason for the warning.
Its probably true. Its very possible that the allies would have lost in europe without the americans.
If it wasn't for the the Americans, we would speak Russian now, not German. The soviets were already winning their front pretty hard by the time the allies created the western front.
The combine forces of all Euro countries could have easily beat Russia.
-French courses in school are basically 50% about nazi-occupied france, after you learned grammatics and such. Not a topic that invkoes the most positive feelings.
In fairness, history classes in the UK and US also devote a significant portion to the Nazis and how noble and valiant they were to end Hitler.
As some commenters are noting, they don't talk so much about the priors leading to World War I or how the Allies bungled the Treaty of Versailles by levying impossible and unfair burdens on Germany. Not many people put together the bizarre puzzle of Yugoslavia, that World War I was started after a Serb shot Archduke Ferdinand because he wanted Serbia and Bosnia to be one nation, while in the 90s the Serbs and Bosnians would be accusing each other of genocide.
In the 90's i had the chance to take part in a pupil-exchange with france. It was great and since then i really like the french people. I think the majority of the Germans and French share many beliefs on how a country should be run and how the government should take care of it's people. I also admire them for fighting for their social rights. Many people make fun of the strikes, i think it's great and should be done in more countries. I like how things turned out after all the shit between our countries in the early in 20th century.
On the other hand i can confirm that many french people behave like assholes when abroad. I worked in hospitality in GB for a year and they were some of the worst customers. But Germans and Americans were no better...
France jokes are funny though and you shouldn't take em all so serious. (My Favorite "There's only one way to france! On tank chains.") You know how much shit you have to take as a German sometimes? As long as it's in good fun, it's fine.
-French courses in school are basically 50% about nazi-occupied france, after you learned grammatics and such. Not a topic that invkoes the most positive feelings.
In fairness, history classes in the UK and US also devote a significant portion to the Nazis and how noble and valiant they were to end Hitler.
As some commenters are noting, they don't talk so much about the priors leading to World War I or how the Allies bungled the Treaty of Versailles by levying impossible and unfair burdens on Germany. Not many people put together the bizarre puzzle of Yugoslavia, that World War I was started after a Serb shot Archduke Ferdinand because he wanted Serbia and Bosnia to be one nation, while in the 90s the Serbs and Bosnians would be accusing each other of genocide.
The teaching of history is almost universally bad at the grade school level. Valiant myths and date memorization, rather than context. The death of the Archduke was usually cited as the main reason for WWI in my schools, without any attention being given to the progressive build up of tension between France and Prussia.
On January 22 2012 02:59 Mafe wrote: What makes many germans have suspect feelings about France: -Sarkozy who behaves like a cowboy. -(Maybe just in my case) A left-party opposition which is full of egoists who refuse to work together, making conservative Jospin and right-wing Le Pen being the candidates for 2nd round of presidential elections in 2002, despite an overall left majority. -French people striking for fun. -You have Eurodisney, we don't. -European Union having english and french as main languages, despite more (native) german-speakers than francophones in the Union. -In german schools you are basically forced to learn french (at "higher" schools), unless you choose Latin or your school happens to offer another language. However, most germans would prefer to learn/have learned spanish or, to a lesser degree, italian. Spanish is seen as a world-language, whereas french loks like a language who becomes less and less important. -French courses in school are basically 50% about nazi-occupied france, after you learned grammatics and such. Not a topic that invkoes the most positive feelings. -Guess how german children feel when they hear stories about french schools were learning foreign languages is said to be optional (don't know whether this is true).
In France you are required to take a first language in the 6th grade (12 years old) and a second one in 8th grade (14 years old). Most people take English as the first and Spanish as the second, however it's not uncommon to have people do German-English. No one does German-Spanish, not learning English is retarded. After you're 18 years old I think you can drop back down to learning one language.
I can safely say that I have almost never met a French person who speaks English fluently (except for teachers obviously). There is one person in my class who comes close actually, but that's because he's half Korean. :p :p
On January 22 2012 01:42 caradoc wrote: The reason France bashing exists in the US is because the French government occasionally listens to the population, creating inconveniences for the US administration. France is a western democracy, in fact the FIRST western democracy, so it is harder to sell the idea that it doesn't matter to the American population in the US.
It basically started in earnest when the US was assembling the 'coalition of the willing' in order to invade Iraq in 2002. Although the majority of the populations of most countries worldwide (and ironically, especially those within the coalition) were overwhelmingly against the prospect of their country participating, France was a security council permanent member and a historical US ally, and refused to support the war.
Of course this made the war on false pretexts look bad for the US administration, so they started making up petty insults about how France was inferior in x y z ways to save face, and hide the fact that it was a case of a government listening to the fact that it's population was against the war.
This was a huge media capaign, and almost overnight you'd see every network picking up on the act. Everything from them being lazy, to eating the wrong foods, to being communist, to having no 'entrepeneurial spirit' (presumably an insult to hardcore capitalists). I guess the bashing persisted in some form or another until now.
I just want to posit that communication like this is what leads to prejudice. Person A says that group B is idiotic and makes misleading/false claims. + Show Spoiler +
The United States of America declared independence in 1776, French Revolution began in 1789. I'm going to assume that the writer was thinking about the government under the US Constitution when he wrote this, but quite frankly there was more freedom under the Articles of Confederation, and therefore a state could choose to become a pure democracy. Furthermore, there have been no nations that have adopted pure democracies since Athens, and then only within the city. The rest of their empire was technically under democratic rule, but the Athenians would kill the colony if the colony didn't do what Athens wanted. Also France-bashing has been around MUCH longer than the "War on Terror". And the media doesn't really have any agenda except for making money, and France-bashing is considered funny. This is the real reason that late-night comedy shows poke fun at France, not some hidden goal of bringing down the common people.
Later group B thinks that all groups C and D with whom person A identifies are idiotic. C and D become cranky about this and think that group A is stupid. No one does research, and everyone hates someone.
On second thought, I'm going to hope that this was written satirically. To assume otherwise would lower my IQ...
On January 22 2012 03:06 SoLaR[i.C] wrote: If there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that other European countries have more beef with France than the US ever has.
As a german I can atleast say THEY STARTED IT!!! When one of the french kings tried to gain power in german states and the screamer defiled the tombs of old german kings and let his soldiers bowl with their bones. Yeaaaaaaaaaaah!
-French courses in school are basically 50% about nazi-occupied france, after you learned grammatics and such. Not a topic that invkoes the most positive feelings.
In fairness, history classes in the UK and US also devote a significant portion to the Nazis and how noble and valiant they were to end Hitler.
I don't know, at the schools I went to, WWII was only covered for about a week in one of my high school classes. I have a feeling most US schools tend to focus on the colonial period, the Revolution and the Civil War; I learned about that shit a dozen times or so.
I've heard really bad things about how when Americans backpack across Europe and get to France, they get treated really badly. Dunno if its true and doubt it is but it is a pretty radical thing to make up.
Okay, so the Americans disliking the French (speaking from experience) stems from WWII, where they basically laid down and died. Now a days, It's because the Urban French people, especially from Paris, seem to always act real snooty to American tourists for no good reason. Even though the French people that live in the countryside are nice people and the ones that run the ski resorts and hotels on the mountains are quite hospitable. Again, a couple bad eggs ruins it all.
-French courses in school are basically 50% about nazi-occupied france, after you learned grammatics and such. Not a topic that invkoes the most positive feelings.
In fairness, history classes in the UK and US also devote a significant portion to the Nazis and how noble and valiant they were to end Hitler.
As some commenters are noting, they don't talk so much about the priors leading to World War I or how the Allies bungled the Treaty of Versailles by levying impossible and unfair burdens on Germany. Not many people put together the bizarre puzzle of Yugoslavia, that World War I was started after a Serb shot Archduke Ferdinand because he wanted Serbia and Bosnia to be one nation, while in the 90s the Serbs and Bosnians would be accusing each other of genocide.
We also have history classes, really! and we are reading books in our german courses, guess which ones can't miss. My point was, the heavy focus on nazi-occupied/vichy France in french courses seemed like an overkill to me.3 books I had to read for my french courses, and all of them where about these years of french history.
Does America have idiots of course. I'm sure France does as well. It should be noted that from whatever animosity exists there is plenty of misunderstanding i.e. France bashes American corporations, and it's government not the citizens citizens of the U.S.
As for the France and WW2 get real. France suffered over half a million deaths almost half of that were military deaths hardly a country that is said to just surrender.
On January 22 2012 03:06 SoLaR[i.C] wrote: If there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that other European countries have more beef with France than the US ever has.
Absolutely this. I feel like Americans only get upset with the French when the French openly insult or attack the US. Any historically-rooted hatred doesn't really exist, and I don't see why an American would initiate an attack on the French without being provoked, just no point.
On January 22 2012 03:08 r00ty wrote: In the 90's i had the chance to take part in a pupil-exchange with france. It was great and since then i really like the french people. I think the majority of the Germans and French share many beliefs on how a country should be run and how the government should take care of it's people. I also admire them for fighting for their social rights. Many people make fun of the strikes, i think it's great and should be done in more countries. I like how things turned out after all the shit between our countries in the early in 20th century.
On the other hand i can confirm that many french people behave like assholes when abroad. I worked in hospitality in GB for a year and they were some of the worst customers. But Germans and Americans were no better...
France jokes are funny though and you shouldn't take em all so serious. (My Favorite "There's only one way to france! On tank chains.") You know how much shit you have to take as a German sometimes? As long as it's in good fun, it's fine.
Three which I remembered when I read your joke(well since we started, why not keep going in international fraternity):
I'm American, and me and my friends don't really ever bash the French. I haven't really seen too much French bashing, either. Also, don't let Bush act as a representative of our nation. What he said was absolutely retarded.
Dunno about you but there's a ton of girls here in the US that are obsessed with french culture and language. I don't hear anti french things from anyone around here. Dunno, could be because I live in the north or because I mostly hang out with other students, either way I have no idea what OP is talking about.
OP's post is 8 years late. Nobody has cared to bash France ever since the google bomb of "Did you mean French military defeats?" and the whole "Freedom fries" thing.
Also the theory of most people on the first post that American's are "envious" of France is ridiculously dumb. American's can't even find France on a map, let alone know enough about them to envy them.
The feeling I get from the French jokes/hate is mostly to do with the people and the history with the two World Wars. There is, in my opinion, a general feeling throughout American Society that we had to enter WW1 and WW2 because France couldn't take care of itself and we had to save them. A lot of Americans characterize French people as ungrateful because it seems like the French haven't done anything to repay us for our intervention.
Then there is the belief that French people hate us so that certainly doesn't help.
And I'm not saying I believe any of the above, those are just some of the things I think have led to the general attitude in America towards the French.
Although I do have a problem with a country that tries to preserve its culture by drowning out everyone else's.
I can't say I have any good experience with french people. I've met many, most of them refuse to speak English. I can see them understand but they will look me straight in the face and answer in French. This is also quite common amongst Germans, but not as common.
France is the best, I personally think French girls are some of the cutest/most attractive girls in the world. Come to think of it, I've never met a French person that I didn't like, come to think of it, and as I study more of the language the culture is all the more alluring.
-French courses in school are basically 50% about nazi-occupied france, after you learned grammatics and such. Not a topic that invkoes the most positive feelings.
In fairness, history classes in the UK and US also devote a significant portion to the Nazis and how noble and valiant they were to end Hitler.
My school certianly didn't ignore genuine History. English history classes tend towards gruesome honesty. (The Brits aren't afraid to face our own monsters. Even the Irish trouble's are given a fair crack, with England taking a great deal of blame - the broken promises at the outbreak of WW2 for instance - and that shit was still relevant when I was young with IRA attacks, my uncle even served in Northern Ireland and got shot at by militia)
My teachers were very open about how the interntaional politics of the time fueled the nazi's rise, and ineffectual western leadership allowed Hitler's advance through europe. Hell, one of my favourite topics to annoy my Yankee teacher was exploring the reasons America joined the war at all. We're a warts and all kinda nation at heart, we love hearing about our past glories and gore.
On January 22 2012 02:27 Rabbet wrote: The only bigger assholes outside of France french people are Quebec french people. I hope they leave Canada for good as they are just a bunch of whining liberal wastes of money. We're keeping Montreal though.
The reason people dislike France french people so much is because they are cowards and didn't even try to put up a fight against the Germans in WW2.
A sad statement about your historical knowledge. And why is there so much canadian hate in this thread?
In our schools its implied that the French were cowards because they had the highest muntiny in WW1, for some reason canadians spend a great deal circle jerking themselves about how great they were in WW1, and the Australians. From what I understand the french soldiers were the worst supplied in WW1 which caused the high rates of mutiny? Honestly i wouldn't want to fight a war if i haven't been fed for a week.
As for quebec french i have huge problems with them. There is a lot of goods in services that never make it to canada because EVERYTHING has to be translated into french and english. This is fucking stupid because in quebec half the shit isnt even in english, there is huge favouritism towards the quebecers in this sense. Also they constantly threaten "divorce" from canada, shows a huge lack of commitment to our country as a whole if you're waving it in our faces. Seriously GTFO so we can enjoy all the great stuff american companies have to offer.
In all fairness to Quebec, Montreal is by far the coolest sounding city in Canada. They also gave us poutine which is fucking amazing.
Personal experiences with France, went there, people were kinda rude. I also find the british very rude to but it's because of cultural differences. Here in canada we can't stfu about being sorry or saying thank you, we're overly polite that it gets a bit stupid. In Britian they're just not use to saying things like excuse me. ( i dont know how many times people nearly landed flat on their face trying to get around me in london)
Also people saying Napoleon being the best general, bit ignorant of some asian generals like Sabotai general of Genghis khan, yeah that guy who control almost the entire euro-asian continent. The only thing that stopped Sabotai from taking the last half of europe was the death of Genghis khan himself. Also alot of Napoleon's greatest strategies were most likely influenced by Sun tzu, But let's not take that way from Napoleon being an amazing fucking general who I believe is the only western general to occupy Moscow.
BrodiaQ United States. January 22 2012 03:41. Posts 827 PM Profile Blog Quote # The feeling I get from the French jokes/hate is mostly to do with the people and the history with the two World Wars. There is, in my opinion, a general feeling throughout American Society that we had to enter WW1 and WW2 because France couldn't take care of itself and we had to save them. A lot of Americans characterize French people as ungrateful because it seems like the French haven't done anything to repay us for our intervention.
Before saying something, you better check if it's right. the USA entered World War 1 only because its ships got sank by the german submarines and World War 2 because of Pearl Harbor.
From a U.S. perspective, I can't remember ever making a joke about the French or hearing one from my friends. Sure the two countries have differences, but we are allies and the few French citizens I have met have been very nice. I don't agree that Americans (as a whole) are jealous of the French and hence the bashing. On the citizen level any bashing is likely due to prejudice/ignorance. If it makes you feel any better, American politicians ALWAYS bash each other, so dont take it personally.
I try to remain objective in most things, and both countries have pros and cons. I became friends with a Frenchman when I attended a rader engineering summer school and appreciated his perspective on issues. I think the French healthcare is better than the U.S. (that's not saying much though), and I believe France as a country offers a better quality of life for several reasons: one being the sense that most French people don't believe life is all about work and another being that France, from what I've heard, is a beautiful country.
On January 22 2012 03:16 Peanutbutter717 wrote: I've heard really bad things about how when Americans backpack across Europe and get to France, they get treated really badly. Dunno if its true and doubt it is but it is a pretty radical thing to make up.
"Americans who travel abroad for the first time are often shocked to discover that, despite all the progress that has been made in the last 30 years, many foreign people still speak in foreign languages."
On January 22 2012 02:27 Rabbet wrote: The only bigger assholes outside of France french people are Quebec french people. I hope they leave Canada for good as they are just a bunch of whining liberal wastes of money. We're keeping Montreal though.
The reason people dislike France french people so much is because they are cowards and didn't even try to put up a fight against the Germans in WW2.
A sad statement about your historical knowledge. And why is there so much canadian hate in this thread?
It's true, everyone knows it. They built a huge wall and when the Germans drove around it they GG'd.
I don't hate Canadians, I am Canadian. And I don't hate Quebecois, I just think they are assholes.
BrodiaQ United States. January 22 2012 03:41. Posts 827 PM Profile Blog Quote # The feeling I get from the French jokes/hate is mostly to do with the people and the history with the two World Wars. There is, in my opinion, a general feeling throughout American Society that we had to enter WW1 and WW2 because France couldn't take care of itself and we had to save them. A lot of Americans characterize French people as ungrateful because it seems like the French haven't done anything to repay us for our intervention.
Before saying something, you better check if it's right. the USA entered World War 1 only because its ships got sank by the german submarines and World War 2 because of Pearl Harbor.
Phosphore, I believe you have misinterpreted his post. He is not making a statement as fact, he is saying in his opinion, many Americans THINK the U.S. saved France in WWII. This is his perspective about the belief of Americans, not his personal belief.
I second his evaulation. There are many Americans who have this twisted view of WWII that essentially holds that America saved France and everyone else in WWII. I know this is not the case, but trust me there are many Americans who are ignorant in this regard.
BrodiaQ United States. January 22 2012 03:41. Posts 827 PM Profile Blog Quote # The feeling I get from the French jokes/hate is mostly to do with the people and the history with the two World Wars. There is, in my opinion, a general feeling throughout American Society that we had to enter WW1 and WW2 because France couldn't take care of itself and we had to save them. A lot of Americans characterize French people as ungrateful because it seems like the French haven't done anything to repay us for our intervention.
Before saying something, you better check if it's right. the USA entered World War 1 only because its ships got sank by the german submarines and World War 2 because of Pearl Harbor.
Half truths
US entered WW1 because of 2 reasons (not one as stated above): 1) Unrestricted Submarine warfare (not just the sinking of the RMS Lusitania) 2) Zimmerman Telegram
Because of Pearl Harbor US entered the Pacific War not the European Front. They only entered WW2 because of German's declaration of war against them on Dec. 11th.
Well personally (I'm not American I've just lived here for 6 years) the feel I get from most of Europe is that they all generally hate Americans or think all Americans are dumb/useless/bigots. Mostly my experience with this stigma is in gaming community's such as World of Warcraft to use an example the North American guilds were generally behind Europeans you could see the slander all over forums.
Then in reality you have politics where the French refused to assist in engaging or supporting America's 'War on Terror'.
There's also World War II where the French basically got walked over by the Germans but that happened to a lot of European nations at that time. Poland for example was totally unprepared. Remember the Maginot Line, an impervious line of defense in between France that was meant to hold off attacks with turrets and fortress's that the Germans walked around and invaded France from behind.
Still in my personal everyday life I never see people walking around or ever bringing up the French at all. As most people have better things to do.
To the above posters, of course America didn't enter either world war to save France as a reason but are you so arrogant that you disregard the fact that Americans are the reason France was liberated? The reason Britain wasn't overrun by Nazis?
Sure they're not the entire reason the War against Germany was won it was a cooperation between many different countries but the fact remains what would have happened if they didn't show up at all?
Still to rest on your laurels of a war I'm sure all of us here never partook in is stupid and America should not hold them indebted for liberating them as a consequence of shutting down the nazi aggression.
I find it sad though that this animosity exists when there should be a healthy relationship.
Dear lord. This thread is a playground for admins to ban people. There are probably a few in the shadows of this thread right now XD
But all joking aside, using President Bush as a representative of anything related to America hurts inside. That man does NOT stand for anything about an American. However, we do have many people just as stupid as him in this country :/
On January 22 2012 04:00 fatguyallen wrote: Do you actually need a reason to mock French people ? They're... French, it all comes natural
Ha ! Very funny, now give me my wallet back! As said by others, the "surrender" stereotype is pretty funny when France has the highest win/loss ratio (150%) and the highest number of wars waged in the world. Especially from americans whose only victory was helping us back during WW2, most of their other military operations were either failures or so-so at best, despite the propaganda. We also don't spend our time shooting one another.
Also, to the WW2 entry discussion higher up, the US pretty much forced Japan to declare war on them by starving them out of the ressources they usually exported to them. 100% of the japanese oil was from the US. That kind of sanction is pretty much a declaration of war.
BrodiaQ United States. January 22 2012 03:41. Posts 827 PM Profile Blog Quote # The feeling I get from the French jokes/hate is mostly to do with the people and the history with the two World Wars. There is, in my opinion, a general feeling throughout American Society that we had to enter WW1 and WW2 because France couldn't take care of itself and we had to save them. A lot of Americans characterize French people as ungrateful because it seems like the French haven't done anything to repay us for our intervention.
Before saying something, you better check if it's right. the USA entered World War 1 only because its ships got sank by the german submarines and World War 2 because of Pearl Harbor.
Half truths
US entered WW1 because of 2 reasons (not one as stated above): 1) Unrestricted Submarine warfare (not just the sinking of the RMS Lusitania) 2) Zimmerman Telegram
Because of Pearl Harbor US entered the Pacific War not the European Front. They only entered WW2 because of German's declaration of war against them on Dec. 11th.
Nitpicking? Yes, but truth is truth is truth.
Truth changes though, as the winner writes history in it's glory..
Here in Canada we despise the French. For good reason. They force their language and culture down our throats like no other. French is required in MANY schools for no good reason, everything is in French for no good reason. They are so forceful about Canada having French as a second language, when less people are French than many other nationalities. They are no where close to being the second most populous people in the country. Yeah I get the French helped found the country, but a good number of them also want to separate, and they would have if it wasn't for their debt with Alberta. They force their culture on the rest of us, but don't give two shits about our culture. In Quebec they actually have laws about how big English on signs can be. There was a recent outcry from Montreal because the new head Coach of the Montreal team isn't French. The thing is only the French would cause an uproar over something like that.
Why does every France thread turn into a thread about war?
The funny thing is Canada has it's own dialects when it comes to French, so while they might be trying to cram it down your throat it's under their model of the language. Not that of France's.
Typical thread where mostly the people with more "extreme" (in this case, who actually do have a bias") views talk, creating a distorted picture of reality. I don't think I know anybody who comes even remotely close to disliking France. And the same goes for any resentments against the Dutch- no idea where that's supposed to come from. Admittedly I live in the eastern part of Germany, so our direct Neighbours (and I assume that those prejudices exist on the "my neighbour smells bad and mows his lawn during my afternoon nap" basis) are Poland and the Czech Republic but we don't have any bias against them either. Oh yeah- polish people steal all our cars. *rolleyes*
I had french in school it's a beautiful language. Noone forced us, we could have chosen other languages or just remain with 1 foreign language, but many of us wanted to learn French. I just wish the French would simply accept that English is the world language and not make such a big fuzz about speaking their own vernacular.
Silly jokes are made about all countries and don't mean a thing.
On January 22 2012 04:32 Rebornlife wrote: Here in Canada we despise the French. For good reason. They force their language and culture down our throats like no other. French is required in MANY schools for no good reason, everything is in French for no good reason. They are so forceful about Canada having French as a second language, when less people are French than many other nationalities. They are no where close to being the second most populous people in the country. Yeah I get the French helped found the country, but a good number of them also want to separate, and they would have if it wasn't for their debt with Alberta. They force their culture on the rest of us, but don't give two shits about our culture. In Quebec they actually have laws about how big English on signs can be. There was a recent outcry from Montreal because the new head Coach of the Montreal team isn't French. The thing is only the French would cause an uproar over something like that.
What the fuck ? Well I'm glad to learn we still have colonies, have to notify my government brb.
On January 21 2012 23:10 Kukaracha wrote: Okay, so here's my "manly history" moment.
French are not cowards, in fact France has one of the most violent histories in the world, waging war after war against every neighbour, and even against most of Europe during Napoleonic times. It is utterly false to say that the french have a history of losing or retreating. In medieval times the english court spoke french as the ruling dynasty was Norman; the Frank kingdom was one of the most powerful at the time; and so was the French kingdom during the Renaissance, and during the Lumières, too. French patriots ousted all foreign troops when a coalition tried to restore the French royalty, while severely outnumbered. Historians have given France the nickname of the "European China", because of its huge population during medieval times. Even the 100-year war wasn't a conflict between France and England, but mostly between two dynasties, and the side of the Valois (France) was vastly outnumbered by the attacks of Burgandy, Brittany, Flanders and Portugal.
But the French army was humiliated during WW2, and even before that in 1870, and the peaceful statu quo carved this in stone. This is very bad for national pride, you know?
I always find it incredibly frustrating when people push forward the BS stereotype that the French are cowards and always lose. The French have probably had just as much conflict as any other European region, and I can only remember two wars that the French actually lost (Franco-Prussian and Napoleon's reign ended in defeat, but hell that doesn't even count as a loss). Not only that, France came up with the greatest military general in earth's history and the largest mainland European empire in the world's history (Napoleon the Great).
Actually having a bloody history is something negative in terms of manliness. Yeah I know that sounds like it doesn't make sense, but see it this way. Throughout history there have been badasses who nobody dared to fuck with, like the spartans in their hardcore period, although technically they've been constantly in war since they declared war every year on their slaves(yep). Or the Prussians, after the Soldier king modernized their army. That people wage wars on you actually just means that their leaders are idiots (French-Prussian-War) or that they think that they could win against you.
PS: Napoleon as the greatest military genius of the world?lol Oh and he was Italian(Corsica) and only rose so high because he was discriminated for being small and speaking with a weird accent as a child.
Napoleon wasn't only a military leader. He built an empire and a constitution out of nowhere, remember that.
Now, I find it pretty odd to be considered manly because you live in the middle of the ocean and no one can be bothered to attack you. Take Switzerland, for example. Are they badasses? No, they juste have a very difficult terrain, and there was very little to gain in conquering their lands. Thus no attacks.
Spartans were not peaceful, they attacked people and were attacked all the time, how do you think they got the army they had during the war of Peloponesia? Prussians were also involved in countless wars, I don't see what's manly about them neither. Being a smaller country, they did play a minor role in European politics, true.
The reason France, England, Spain, Portugual and the Italian cities were always at war was because they were the ones who decided the fate of the continent. And don't forget that there were small encounters every year or so, with many small actors siding with one side or the other (the German princes, small kingdoms, or city-states).
But the bottom line is that there is no manliness in such wars, since most of them did not concern the people (except when they were being murdered, raped and robbed regularly like Lorraine in 1600), not even "nations" but mostly cousins trying to kill each other over a valuable piece of land.
I said that wars were usually considered manly, not that they are And I said that if you're hard enough that nobody fucks with you, that's manly not that if nobody wages wars on you you're manly. And prussia had way less wars than England and France for example... And I never said that Spartans were peacefull, I even mentioned that they were constantly in a war, I just said that people didn't fuck with them AND I talked about prussia after the Soldier King who modernized the Prussian Army and made it the best of the continent, which was btw the same army and the same militarism which made Prussia the mightiest power in europe and made it possible to unify Germany.
So... yeah learn to read -.-
EDIT: Oh and I know about the Code Napoleon and his other accomplishments and still think he's overrated
Prussia did have less wars than England or France, but this is because it was a minor country. Smaller territories would hop on conflicts generated by greater power, but didn't have the means to wage war by themselves. They'd face the danger of being absorbed every time this was the case.
And yes, Sparta has been "fucked with" quite a lot, from the Delos alliance to Thebes, and their neighbours before their dominance was established during the early 7th century B.C. This isn't 300. Bad example I guess.
The Prussian army is a bad example too. While it was a very disciplined and well-trained one, it aligned no more than 80 000, and is contemporaneous to Louis XIV's army which could go up to 400 000 men out of a population of 20 million people (most populated country of Europe, including Russia), and also had the reputation to be the most technologically advanced, the most experienced and the most effective army at that time.
Now to make things clear, Prussia was not a challenge before 1870. The prussian army was obliterated by Napoleon in Iéna, and needed to ally England to pull off Waterloo after Napoleon's army died in the Russian winter. Even after 1817, wether Germany (which is not Prussia by the way) was the most powerful European country or not is debatable; I'd personally consider the UK as the most powerful empire at the time, with a strong control overseas and a foot in every conflict. Now Germany had the most powerful empire from 1940 to 1945, it's true, but I'm not sure it's something to be proud of...
Your point could stand if you had chosen other examples, such as Attila's horde, who actually forced fleeing barbarians into the Roman Empire.
Typical thread where mostly the people with more "extreme" (in this case, who actually do have a bias") views talk, creating a distorted picture of reality. I don't think I know anybody who comes even remotely close to disliking France. And the same goes for any resentments against the Dutch- no idea where that's supposed to come from. Admittedly I live in the eastern part of Germany, so our direct Neighbours (and I assume that those prejudices exist on the "my neighbour smells bad and mows his lawn during my afternoon nap" basis) are Poland and the Czech Republic but we don't have any bias against them either. Oh yeah- polish people steal all our cars. *rolleyes*
I had french in school it's a beautiful language. Noone forced us, we could have chosen other languages or just remain with 1 foreign language, but many of us wanted to learn French. I just wish the French would simply accept that English is the world language and not make such a big fuzz about speaking their own vernacular.
Silly jokes are made about all countries and don't mean a thing.
Yeah I think that's an important thing to realize. All of Scandinavia pretty much hate Sweden afaik, and apparently they don't even serve Swedes in some bars in Denmark. There's rivalry everywhere. It keeps things interesting
On January 21 2012 21:37 Al Bundy wrote: I am french. Sometimes I think that people are right to bash us. I'm going to generalize a bit here, but it's undeniable that some of us are chauvinistic, pretentious, uneducated assholes. Not to mention we can't behave when abroad, and that's really unfortunate because everytime I go abroad, I think man our reputation definitely precedes us. I'm kind of tired having to pay for my fellow Frenchmen's incongruous behavior.
Quebec is a joke amongst Canadians. They want so badly to be French, but even the French dislike them.
Where does this idea come from? Absolutely everyone I know in my family or friends love people from Québec. We occasionally joke about their accent but it's affectionate teasing. Kind of like we have a ton of jokes about french-speaking belgians but we really like them too.
Seriously if I had to make a top 3 of the people that French people like the most in average, I'd say (in no particular order) Belgians, Germans and Quebecers.
On January 21 2012 21:33 CeroFail wrote: They're too nationalistic, arrogant and selfish. As such, people hate them and this can be seen by how apparently, French people are the most unpopular tourists.
User was warned for this post
If that was the reason as to why americans dislike french, that would be EXTREMELY ironic
I've visited France before, with a bunch of other people. I'm from Hawaii, and my friends were from different parts of the U.S. A lot of people in Paris were rude to us when it became apparent that we were from the U.S., although when I told them I was from Hawaii they seemed to like me a lot more
A group of girls also tried to send us to a gay club, but thankfully we met this really cool restaurant owner that told us what it really was and steered us in the right direction
BrodiaQ United States. January 22 2012 03:41. Posts 827 PM Profile Blog Quote # The feeling I get from the French jokes/hate is mostly to do with the people and the history with the two World Wars. There is, in my opinion, a general feeling throughout American Society that we had to enter WW1 and WW2 because France couldn't take care of itself and we had to save them. A lot of Americans characterize French people as ungrateful because it seems like the French haven't done anything to repay us for our intervention.
Before saying something, you better check if it's right. the USA entered World War 1 only because its ships got sank by the german submarines and World War 2 because of Pearl Harbor.
The USA would have entered WW2 anyway because they wouldn't want all of Western Europe under the rule of USSR. ;/
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
Please, give this guy some history lessons!
Apart from that, as far as the online community goes, I think it's some kind of running gag that isn't really meant in a bad way. I don't know about the rest though as I hardly ever noticed any "france bashing" outside of the gaming world.
I think the main reason why many people dislike the French (at least here in the US), is because of their quick defeat in WW2. I'm not saying that's justified though. But I don't really know why the French dislike the US so much (don't bash me) other than our culture differences.
My grandma told me about how she traveled a lot in Europe a while back. She loved to travel. But I remember her telling me about her trips to Paris and how whenever she entered a restaurant, she was served low quality food just because she was an American tourist. People were unhelpful to tourists in that city (especially Americans) and that kind of just stuck with me.
From what I read in this thread, it seems like Paris is just the main city in France that dislikes Americans. It seems like rural France isn't too bad. Interesting to see that even some Frenchies (is that offensive?) dislike Parisians/share that opinion.
you guys need to accept the FACT that all countries suck except germany and the czech republic (because of dat beeeeeer)
no seriously every country has it flaws you can bash it for. if you point at somebody with your finger make sure your hands are clean....you actually could make a similar thread about every other country on the planet since every country gets bashed somehow by others....
Typical thread where mostly the people with more "extreme" (in this case, who actually do have a bias") views talk, creating a distorted picture of reality. I don't think I know anybody who comes even remotely close to disliking France. And the same goes for any resentments against the Dutch- no idea where that's supposed to come from. Admittedly I live in the eastern part of Germany, so our direct Neighbours (and I assume that those prejudices exist on the "my neighbour smells bad and mows his lawn during my afternoon nap" basis) are Poland and the Czech Republic but we don't have any bias against them either. Oh yeah- polish people steal all our cars. *rolleyes*
I had french in school it's a beautiful language. Noone forced us, we could have chosen other languages or just remain with 1 foreign language, but many of us wanted to learn French. I just wish the French would simply accept that English is the world language and not make such a big fuzz about speaking their own vernacular.
Silly jokes are made about all countries and don't mean a thing.
Yeah I think that's an important thing to realize. All of Scandinavia pretty much hate Sweden afaik, and apparently they don't even serve Swedes in some bars in Denmark. There's rivalry everywhere. It keeps things interesting
Make Denmark prettier, show a Swede the way to the ferry... (Yes, Danish girls are better looking than Swedish, we've just figured out that if we keep quiet about it we get to keep them to ourselves)
Also, people with only one language complaining that the french won't speak their language crack me up.... And it is in my experience also completely untrue - as long as you start the convo with "excuse moi, mais mon francais son tres tres terrible, parle vous anglais?" you are golden no matter which part of France you are in (yes, that sentence is probably littered with mistakes, but it only enforces the message).
On January 21 2012 21:20 TanTzoR wrote: Edit: damn can't edit title, it's "France" Bashing ofc
Hihi,
I've been questioning myself for some time why the United-States are that aggressive towards France. I'm half French but leave in the UK, I may not be totally objective but it seems it's more one-sided. There is bashing in different parts:
-People bashing, i don't know much about since I do not leave in the US. Maybe you guys can tell me if jokes about French are common.
-Political bashing, that's the part that surprises me the most. In France people may tell Americans are fat, or on the medias they may call them rambos. But on a political level, nothing. Not the same for the Americans. France Bashing seems to be a really popular sport among the republican party. http://aproposfrance-usa.blogspot.com/
Here is one quote from Bush "The problem with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur". A part from the fact that "entrepreneur" is a french word, what is the goal of this statement? An American friend of mine told me that if Kerry was not France friendly he could have won the elections. Do you agree?
I really don't get it, United-States and France have ALWAYS (except Suez stuff) on the same side, so why?
So to resume, why does this bashing exist? Is it as important as it seems? At which level (street,media,political) level is it the more dangerous? My statement may be totally wrong, so I need some insight from Americans themselves. Please be respectful PS: a little trick of history xD George Washington, the first American president of history was a linear descendant of a frenchman.
It's not so much that Americans hate the French, but it's give and take on some levels. Part of it in recent history is due to France's refusal to help with Iraq (I thought France was smart not to get involved, but a lot of Americans got really angry over it). It's a lot because Americans see the French as arrogant and smug, and the French often see Americans as the same way. The way the French treat American tourists doesn't help either, they have a reputation here for hating Americans, and it's mostly reciprocation. Keep in mind however, that this reputation comes from the place where American tourists tend to go to when they visit France (Paris), and it's sort of just generalized to all Frenchmen when it's really just Parisians. Sort of how people from other countries looked at Bush and thought all Americans were like that (The entire Northern half of this country hated his guts with only a couple exceptions).
For the record, it's mostly just jokes, not many people take it seriously.
On January 22 2012 05:02 Epishade wrote: I think the main reason why many people dislike the French (at least here in the US), is because of their quick defeat in WW2. I'm not saying that's justified though. But I don't really know why the French dislike the US so much (don't bash me) other than our culture differences.
My grandma told me about how she traveled a lot in Europe a while back. She loved to travel. But I remember her telling me about her trips to Paris and how whenever she entered a restaurant, she was served low quality food just because she was an American tourist. People were unhelpful to tourists in that city (especially Americans) and that kind of just stuck with me.
From what I read in this thread, it seems like Paris is just the main city in France that dislikes Americans. It seems like rural France isn't too bad. Interesting to see that even some Frenchies (is that offensive?) dislike Parisians/share that opinion.
Maybe the food just sucked. :p
Actually where I live (close to Meaux, a small/medium sized city not too far from Paris) people are really interested in the USA and have a lot of positive things to say about them. When I tell people I've lived in the USA for 10 years they envy me, in fact from experience, I could probably say that a lot of Frenchies envy Americans.
As for Parisians... let's say it's not a general consensus that they're not very nice people, but it isn't far from the case. Parisians are sort of known for being snobby and uptight (and they're very poor drivers). They definitely don't have a great reputation, even among the French. Paris is still a nice city though.
There are jokes and stereotypes about all big countries that people commonly have on their map. England: ugly, slutty and bad food Russia: drunk, criminals Chinese: ching chan chong France: losers, arrogant Germans: bavarians, nazis etc etc
On that note: Why are there so many alleys in France? Because german soldiers like to march in shadow.
I think France is one of the better understood countries and cultures for Americans and thus there are many jokes about them. They bash and have even more jokes about mexicans and candians, because they know them even better and the more you know about something the more you can find things to make fun of.
Typical thread where mostly the people with more "extreme" (in this case, who actually do have a bias") views talk, creating a distorted picture of reality. I don't think I know anybody who comes even remotely close to disliking France. And the same goes for any resentments against the Dutch- no idea where that's supposed to come from. Admittedly I live in the eastern part of Germany, so our direct Neighbours (and I assume that those prejudices exist on the "my neighbour smells bad and mows his lawn during my afternoon nap" basis) are Poland and the Czech Republic but we don't have any bias against them either. Oh yeah- polish people steal all our cars. *rolleyes*
I had french in school it's a beautiful language. Noone forced us, we could have chosen other languages or just remain with 1 foreign language, but many of us wanted to learn French. I just wish the French would simply accept that English is the world language and not make such a big fuzz about speaking their own vernacular.
Silly jokes are made about all countries and don't mean a thing.
Yeah I think that's an important thing to realize. All of Scandinavia pretty much hate Sweden afaik, and apparently they don't even serve Swedes in some bars in Denmark. There's rivalry everywhere. It keeps things interesting
where in denmark does bars not serve swedes? ive been to copenhagen several times and ive never heard of such thing and i cant imagine why there would be. there really isnt any serious rivalry going on between sweden and denmark. why do you think so? cause i myself have never heard about anything (read: serious) like rivalry between danes and swedes. its like, you call them danskjävlar and tell them that they say for haelvede all the time and that they only eat pölse but thats pretty much it, atleast for me. dont you agree?
And the intro was 100% true. My father was calling my crazy for not wanting to study in Paris but other parts of France. Took me a long time gathering anecdotes (from the French themselves , among others) to convince him otherwise.
American's love the French. American's also tease the ones they love.
Honestly, people tease the French because they can.... its been permissible since the WWII propaganda days. Their parents bashed the French, so they bash the French. I know it even happens in the political realm, but thats because its been permitted in the social ranks.
Its stupid and colloquial, but no doubt it exists.
Intelligent American's know how culturally and historically significant the French have been.
Everyone bashes everyone else. I'm sure you are just noticing it because you are part French yourself. Don't worry, plenty of French people bash the U.S as well XD
I feel very secure in my frenchness now. Haters gonna hate and that's it. Only retards and ignorant people are serious about it anyway. Like this guy in a club in China who trash talked me and tried to start a fight because it was after the Bejiing Olympics drama and the media had started an anti-French campaign (much like in the US around the Iraq war I guess). He only tried though because ofc I ran away. LOL j/k.
I was quite sad to see the anti-Romney video ad though. I live in the US now, and I fucking love America and Americans but the amount of retarded name-calling and petty attacks that seem to make a large part of the political campaigns here is painful to witness. You're better than that, don't fall for this shit please.
On January 22 2012 05:03 gwaihir wrote: you guys need to accept the FACT that all countries suck except germany and the czech republic (because of dat beeeeeer)
no seriously every country has it flaws you can bash it for. if you point at somebody with your finger make sure your hands are clean....you actually could make a similar thread about every other country on the planet since every country gets bashed somehow by others....
Finally a voice of reason in this thread!
I would say Denmark is awesome too because of Faxe Royal Strong
If we would rate countries based on their beer then I would say there are more reasons to dislike the countries for which this thread was made.
I don't care about what the others countries think about us...it's my last preoccupation and I think the most French don't pay attention too.
If you don't like France or French people it's ok for me. If some Americans or British want to spat, insult, laught towards us and make a strong French-bashing, they can do that, it's not important. Since when we French, take care about the opinion of others people ???????????
If you think that we French, are rude, arrogant and we don't speak a good English, you should don't come anymore in our country. Nobody force you to visit France or spent your time here. If you don't want to meet any French guy or girl don't come here. The French diaspora around the world is tiny, so you will probably never meet a French people in your whole life.
BTW, I learn English at my high school but I'm not perfectly fluent, moreover I always sleep in English lesson so sorry for the mistakes... bye.
On January 21 2012 21:40 hypercube wrote: American bashing French for "surrendering" or being cowards is just pathetic. It's just that France didn't support a certain policy (that turned out to be a disaster anyway) and it was Republicans' way of getting back at them. That's some fourth grade shit right there.
People were bashing France for "surrendering" way before the war in Iraq. They surrendered pretty swiftly to Nazi Germany (google Vichy France, they didn't just surrender, they outright aided the Nazis), they surrendered to the North Vietnamese in the 50's, and I'm sure I'm forgetting other instances too.
I agree that all the France-bashing leading up to the war in Iraq was BS though.
On January 22 2012 06:15 Caller wrote: The problem with France is how inept they were in foreign policy after Napoleon.
On a related note, voulez vous couchiez avec moi?
It is "couchez"! And you should maybe add "ce soir" since you usually don't want to wait too long.
Now on a serious note: I am german, i went to france several times and everything went awesome. Why? because i could speak a little bit french. If you can only speak english you are completely dumped as really NO ONE speaks it with joy. I mean yes, maybe, some people CAN speak english but they won't do it. But the direct "racism" from the american politics buggers me quite hard. And why there is ALWAYS the euro vs us thing going on, not only here on TL but also in the HoN and DotA community...
I was under the assumption that most of the English-speaking world (UK, US, Australia, NZ) make fun of the French, but most of the time just as a joke. Like when we had the France vs Japan Rugby world cup game in NZ a few months ago, one of my mates went to 'support' the french by dressing up as a mime and holding a white flag (for surrendering). I didn't even realize Americans were so serious about it lol...at least for us in New Zealand its just a bit of good-natured fun
On January 21 2012 21:40 hypercube wrote: American bashing French for "surrendering" or being cowards is just pathetic. It's just that France didn't support a certain policy (that turned out to be a disaster anyway) and it was Republicans' way of getting back at them. That's some fourth grade shit right there.
People were bashing France for "surrendering" way before the war in Iraq. They surrendered pretty swiftly to Nazi Germany (google Vichy France, they didn't just surrender, they outright aided the Nazis), they surrendered to the North Vietnamese in the 50's, and I'm sure I'm forgetting other instances too.
I agree that all the France-bashing leading up to the war in Iraq was BS though.
Google WW2 and read the full story. I don't care if people make jokes about surrendering since I don't give a crap about nationality and how you could be proud of living in a certain country is a mystery to me. But I don't like when people state facts backed only by their own ignorance.
On January 21 2012 21:40 hypercube wrote: American bashing French for "surrendering" or being cowards is just pathetic. It's just that France didn't support a certain policy (that turned out to be a disaster anyway) and it was Republicans' way of getting back at them. That's some fourth grade shit right there.
People were bashing France for "surrendering" way before the war in Iraq. They surrendered pretty swiftly to Nazi Germany (google Vichy France, they didn't just surrender, they outright aided the Nazis), they surrendered to the North Vietnamese in the 50's, and I'm sure I'm forgetting other instances too.
I agree that all the France-bashing leading up to the war in Iraq was BS though.
Like it's already been said in this topic, it's easy not to surrender to the nazis when you don't have a common border with them. Even the mighty USSR won thanks to their number and the fact, the weather was shitty as hell.
If the US had to deal with what France had to deal when we got invaded, they would have done the same, surrender. Why ? Because the power was too great, because the country was unprepared for what was coming. To be honest, even the USSR would have been owned fighting the whole nazi army.
As for Viet Nam, it's easy to tease us, what should have we done when we were outnumbered ? 1 guy against 4 isn't a way to win a war. Should i remember you that the US intervention turned to be a disaster as well ?
Just gunna say in my personal opinion, dont take anything Bush says seriously, from past experience he doesnt know what hes talking about/doesnt have half a braincell.
People were bashing France for "surrendering" way before the war in Iraq. They surrendered pretty swiftly to Nazi Germany (google Vichy France, they didn't just surrender, they outright aided the Nazis), they surrendered to the North Vietnamese in the 50's, and I'm sure I'm forgetting other instances too.
I agree that all the France-bashing leading up to the war in Iraq was BS though.
People were bashing France for "surrendering" way before the war in Iraq. They surrendered pretty swiftly to Nazi Germany (google Vichy France, they didn't just surrender, they outright aided the Nazis), they surrendered to the North Vietnamese in the 50's, and I'm sure I'm forgetting other instances too.
I agree that all the France-bashing leading up to the war in Iraq was BS though.
Look up USA vs Vietnam war.
To the hell with US intervention. They stoped the chineese forces as well!
Do people really bash France that much? Seriously there may be a few jokes thrown around from time to time but what country doesn't have jokes about other countries? Besides that whole "Freedom Fries" thing that some idiot proposed (everyone thought it was stupid) there really isn't any overly aggressive or continual bashing of the French.
Isn't french bashing more popular in Europe than in the United States? People in USA bash french people, but mostly only the french Canadians and it is mostly silly/harmless jokes that no one takes serious. I've never really heard many people even talk about France, let alone bash them.
I've heard WAY more of my European friends bash France compared to my American friends.
On January 21 2012 21:48 Nightshake wrote: Im french and I live in France. And this country has a lot of dumb people. Education and political system suck hard, and a lot of people are just unsociable and always unhappy. Not to mention, the arrogance of French (well this is characteristic and not that bad as every country has people with a main default).
But it's a beautiful country, and you can meet great people. And there is a reason why French culture is so well-known.
The thing is that Americans think that French are cowards who didn't take part in the WWII. Well, we got attacked by a huge ass army with a crazy dictator. Pétain, the Maréchal at this time (the commander of the army), decided to cooperate with the nazis. And that's why people don't like French. I'd like to say that after WW2, Pétain got executed for cooperating with the nazis.
I don't really think it stems from WWII, at least not from an American perspective. If it did, then wouldn't the bashing be against Germany or Italy instead of France? The French people had nothing to do with the mass killings and genocide that went on in Europe, whereas the German people openly supported it. You can see video from WWII where millions of people come out in support of Hitler during Nazi rallies or read texts from Germans during the era and how they supported the Nazi agenda and even killing Jews. If Americans were going to hate people for WWII it would be the Germans and not the French.
I think it has more to do with the general attitude and arrogance of the French, mainly the people of Paris. I've been to Paris, and every single person I met treated me like trash and/or tried to steal from me, including the metro police. I dunno, maybe it's the same if you go to NYC and you're French. Contrary to the French, when I was in Germany everyone seemed amicable and welcoming. In Italy it was a mixture, but the people seemed genuine and not overly aggressive/arrogant like the French towards Americans.
well i never really heard us bashing the french. i dont even know any particular stereotype of french except maybe they surrender or something like that. but i heard it from a french guy saying usa say the french surrender so... -_- all i know is paris is the city of love. thats about it.
This thread seems to make this depiction of France accurate. + Show Spoiler +
Surrendering in WWII was honestly not a bad thing. They were abandoned by Britain and invaded by Germany and Italy. There was no chance of victory. The Free French did still fight on.
How many french soldiers does out take to defend Paris?
I dunno, its never been done successfully.
that's the extent of the joking I'll do but it makes a point, people bag on the French for being wussies, I find people in Paris to be dicks sometimes but aside from that everyone was perfectly nice and most of it its just joking around.
I think i have read a poll somewhere where French tourists are listed as the most terrible tourist in the world (dirty, bad mannered, noisy, etc.) with Japanese tourist are the most mannered tourists in the world (not surpised there), maybe that's why there are some stereotyping going when people makes fun of them? I have never met a french in my life so i can't really say anything
I thought ripping on France was as old as the English. Anywhere the English have been, they have created resentment for France. Look at Americans' lack of love for France, even though they helped them a little against the British. Look at how many Anglophone Ontarians shit-talk Quebecois while they worship Georges St-Pierre. Just a solid old rivalry, IMO. No harm intended, I'm sure.
What surprises me the most is the fact that american can seriously bash us based on events that happened at least 70 years ago. Or does this means they still think germans are nazis ?
I could enlighten you and link you some pointers both in french and in english about the way the world see France but it's much more funnier to see a good iteration of mindless debates by people who have little arguments to sustain their sayings ...
On January 22 2012 07:01 dUTtrOACh wrote: I thought ripping on France was as old as the English. Anywhere the English have been, they have created resentment for France. Look at Americans' lack of love for France, even though they helped them a little against the British. Look at how many Anglophone Ontarians shit-talk Quebecois while they worship Georges St-Pierre. Just a solid old rivalry, IMO. No harm intended, I'm sure.
It would take a quick US history course to show how little we have in common with France. In under 50 years after the revolution, the US decided that they were better off improving relations with Britain than with France, given that they honestly had to choose. The United States was always closer to Britain. We hastily signed a treaty to end the Revolution before France could have its say. Basically, the US and France have never been especially close. Despite the revolution and the War of 1812, we still liked Britain more.
BrodiaQ United States. January 22 2012 03:41. Posts 827 PM Profile Blog Quote # The feeling I get from the French jokes/hate is mostly to do with the people and the history with the two World Wars. There is, in my opinion, a general feeling throughout American Society that we had to enter WW1 and WW2 because France couldn't take care of itself and we had to save them. A lot of Americans characterize French people as ungrateful because it seems like the French haven't done anything to repay us for our intervention.
Before saying something, you better check if it's right. the USA entered World War 1 only because its ships got sank by the german submarines and World War 2 because of Pearl Harbor.
Half truths
US entered WW1 because of 2 reasons (not one as stated above): 1) Unrestricted Submarine warfare (not just the sinking of the RMS Lusitania) 2) Zimmerman Telegram
Because of Pearl Harbor US entered the Pacific War not the European Front. They only entered WW2 because of German's declaration of war against them on Dec. 11th.
Nitpicking? Yes, but truth is truth is truth.
As far as WWII, I think we would have eventually been involved in the European Front regardless of Pearl Harbor or German's declaration of war against us. First though, we had to build up the infrastructure to be able to support an overseas war against a German army that literally had the resources of all of Europe. This started by providing the English with all types of weaponry and war machines as we continued to build up our infrastructure. Because of the ramped up production to provide the English with weapons we had the factories in place to sustain war-time production. There were many scuffles and incidents between Germany and the U.S. because of this, and at this point it was inevitable we would become involved, it was just a matter of when.
France bashing by Americans is for the most part pretty lighthearted. France is romanticized as much as it is bashed in American culture. I remember in my public middle school you could take a class in french, german, or spanish, and the class taught about the history and culture of the country as much as the language. So the U.S. government including republicans agree to pay for like maby a fifth of americans students to learn about France.
On January 22 2012 07:09 Otolia wrote: This thread is about to get golden.
I could enlighten you and link you some pointers both in french and in english about the way the world see France but it's much more funnier to see a good iteration of mindless debates by people who have little arguments to sustain their sayings ...
This thread is golden already. Can't stop laughing at what i read in it. Specialy the whole " French are coward because they didn't follow Bush in Iraq. " I know it's mostly a deep america feeling, and most people on this site know better, but i didn't know somes people still thought that.
About the fact that French people are very hostile to tourists :
If you try to speak french, even if it's broken, they will be a lot less hostile, and will try to speak with you. if you try to speak english with them, the vast majority of people wont even try to understand what you want to say.
Some people (read: Americans) see this as rudeness, but i wonder what their reaction would be if somebody was asking them something in French in their country.
I worked in a french bakery for 7 months. The head chef being french thought it was the best thing to constantly make fun of americans and arabics. The best compliment I had ever received from him was him saying "He isn't American." To one of his french friends. The whole bashing back and forth between each other is more so like two brothers picking on one another. It's just what countries do that have similar revolution times.
These threads always boil down to "not all people from country X say/think that about country Y". This point is made somewhere around page 2, everyone agrees, tries to explain why all the "stupid, uninformed people" think that about country Y, and then bring up other countries, with the same thing happening again.
I think before threads of this type can become really informative, there needs to be a greater variety of people here. What what I can tell, there is a large vocal majority, and a smaller, very silent minority. Or maybe there is just a large majority and VERY small minority.
On topic, here in the US, the basing is almost ALWAYS playful. Jokes involving any other person/country for surrender are amusing because of our history. When you consider that the beginning of this nation involved the exact opposite of surrender, it makes more sense. We still poke fun at and somewhat look down on figures who give up, or at least we did.(not to turn this into a debate about our once heavily held ideas).
Some people (read: Americans) see this as rudeness, but i wonder what their reaction would be if somebody was asking them something in French in their country.
They would probably pull out their gun and shoot you in the face then throw hamburger greasy papers at your dead body.
Some people (read: Americans) see this as rudeness, but i wonder what their reaction would be if somebody was asking them something in French in their country.
They would probably pull out their gun and shoot you in the face then throw hamburger greasy papers at your dead body.
Proving the point why you silly people are ignorant. Europeans in particular presume to know anything about American culture and just in reality are incredibly retarded. Congratulations.
On January 22 2012 07:20 Fatalize wrote: About the fact that French people are very hostile to tourists :
If you try to speak french, even if it's broken, they will be a lot less hostile, and will try to speak with you. if you try to speak english with them, the vast majority of people wont even try to understand what you want to say.
Some people (read: Americans) see this as rudeness, but i wonder what their reaction would be if somebody was asking them something in French in their country.
French people are hostile to everyone that isn't French. As evidenced by your post.
On January 22 2012 07:09 Otolia wrote: This thread is about to get golden.
I could enlighten you and link you some pointers both in french and in english about the way the world see France but it's much more funnier to see a good iteration of mindless debates by people who have little arguments to sustain their sayings ...
This thread is golden already. Can't stop laughing at what i read in it. Specialy the whole " French are coward because they didn't follow Bush in Iraq. " I know it's mostly a deep america feeling, and most people on this site know better, but i didn't know somes people still thought that.
On January 22 2012 07:20 Fatalize wrote: About the fact that French people are very hostile to tourists :
If you try to speak french, even if it's broken, they will be a lot less hostile, and will try to speak with you. if you try to speak english with them, the vast majority of people wont even try to understand what you want to say.
Some people (read: Americans) see this as rudeness, but i wonder what their reaction would be if somebody was asking them something in French in their country.
French people are hostile to everyone that isn't French. As evidenced by your post.
They're hostile to everyone that doesnt even attempt to speak french in France.
Most americans dont understand this concept. Since 99% of them couldnt even make a basic sentence in any non-english language.
On January 22 2012 07:20 Fatalize wrote: About the fact that French people are very hostile to tourists :
If you try to speak french, even if it's broken, they will be a lot less hostile, and will try to speak with you. if you try to speak english with them, the vast majority of people wont even try to understand what you want to say.
Some people (read: Americans) see this as rudeness, but i wonder what their reaction would be if somebody was asking them something in French in their country.
French people are hostile to everyone that isn't French. As evidenced by your post.
They're hostile to everyone that doesnt even attempt to speak french in France.
Most americans dont understand this concept. Since 99% of them couldnt even make a basic sentence in any non-english language.
I've vacationed in France two times and luckily never met anyone as hostile as you appear to be in this post. Most people are quite polite and happy to have tourism.
On January 22 2012 07:20 Fatalize wrote: About the fact that French people are very hostile to tourists :
If you try to speak french, even if it's broken, they will be a lot less hostile, and will try to speak with you. if you try to speak english with them, the vast majority of people wont even try to understand what you want to say.
Some people (read: Americans) see this as rudeness, but i wonder what their reaction would be if somebody was asking them something in French in their country.
Nothing against france, but sorry this is ridicously rude. Everyone knows english, how the fuck is someone supposed to know french? When I see tourists I don't care what language they speak, I'm always nice to them and give them directions, even if I have to use hand signals.
Also it's not the same to ask for directions in french on usa than on english in france, though I understand your point. Difference is anyone from latin america and most likely asia will have english as the common language with french.
On January 22 2012 07:20 Fatalize wrote: About the fact that French people are very hostile to tourists :
If you try to speak french, even if it's broken, they will be a lot less hostile, and will try to speak with you. if you try to speak english with them, the vast majority of people wont even try to understand what you want to say.
Some people (read: Americans) see this as rudeness, but i wonder what their reaction would be if somebody was asking them something in French in their country.
French people are hostile to everyone that isn't French. As evidenced by your post.
They're hostile to everyone that doesnt even attempt to speak french in France.
Most americans dont understand this concept. Since 99% of them couldnt even make a basic sentence in any non-english language.
So if I'm going on vacation to Europe and plan to visit the Netherlands, Germany, Spain, France, and and Italy then I should learn five different languages before travelling? Funny how the French are the only ones that think we should learn their language before travelling to their country for a short vacation. That's what's called arrogance.
Some people (read: Americans) see this as rudeness, but i wonder what their reaction would be if somebody was asking them something in French in their country.
They would probably pull out their gun and shoot you in the face then throw hamburger greasy papers at your dead body.
On January 22 2012 07:20 Fatalize wrote: About the fact that French people are very hostile to tourists :
If you try to speak french, even if it's broken, they will be a lot less hostile, and will try to speak with you. if you try to speak english with them, the vast majority of people wont even try to understand what you want to say.
Some people (read: Americans) see this as rudeness, but i wonder what their reaction would be if somebody was asking them something in French in their country.
French people are hostile to everyone that isn't French. As evidenced by your post.
They're hostile to everyone that doesnt even attempt to speak french in France.
Most americans dont understand this concept. Since 99% of them couldnt even make a basic sentence in any non-english language.
So if I'm going on vacation to Europe and plan to visit the Netherlands, Germany, Spain, France, and and Italy then I should learn five different languages before travelling? Funny how the French are the only ones that think we should learn their language before travelling to their country for a short vacation. That's what's called arrogance.
Not learn deeply, but atleast try to say a few words in it.
But native english speakers dont get it. They still think everybody in the world is supposed to speak english, and that they dont have to learn a foreign language even partially.
On January 22 2012 07:20 Fatalize wrote: About the fact that French people are very hostile to tourists :
If you try to speak french, even if it's broken, they will be a lot less hostile, and will try to speak with you. if you try to speak english with them, the vast majority of people wont even try to understand what you want to say.
Some people (read: Americans) see this as rudeness, but i wonder what their reaction would be if somebody was asking them something in French in their country.
French people are hostile to everyone that isn't French. As evidenced by your post.
They're hostile to everyone that doesnt even attempt to speak french in France.
Most americans dont understand this concept. Since 99% of them couldnt even make a basic sentence in any non-english language.
So if I'm going on vacation to Europe and plan to visit the Netherlands, Germany, Spain, France, and and Italy then I should learn five different languages before travelling? Funny how the French are the only ones that think we should learn their language before travelling to their country for a short vacation. That's what's called arrogance.
Not learn deeply, but atleast try to say a few words in it.
But native english speakers dont get it. They still think everybody in the world is supposed to speak english, and that they dont have to learn a foreign language even partially.
What if I'm latin, asian or russian? You honestly think it's bad to not know french? Like for real?
This thread is still going on? I think its halarious how BOTH sides are taking this so harshly. I make fun of the French personally because they take a light-hearted joke as an offense, they have national pride (news flash: Its not a bad thing). I don't bash on them though. Americans and Europeans are equally as ignorant of each other, if you disagree with this you are case and point (me and my UK friend have discussed this numerous times; he even went as far as one European country is blind to its neighboring country(-ies), I however can say nothing about that and only take it at face value).
This thread shouldn't have made it past page one, and my posting doesn't help it disappear, but it needs to be said. Its turning into a giant trollfest and resulting in all the meaningless hate to show itself (a good majority of the people on both sides are only giving a reason why THEIR country should be bashed which is counter productive to their reason for posting).
Feel free to bash America saying we are ignorant, and I'll agree with you, but in return, I hope your bnot blind to your own countries ignorance as well. No one is perfect, get over it.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
Trust me when I say that having spoken with and interacted with the French, I personally do not envy them. Things making fun of the French for World War II is merely a joke that perhaps is in poor taste in the same way that a racist or sexist joke is in poor taste. They're pretty funny, but they're certainly not something to be taken to heart (at least most of the time, there are some people who might actually be insane).
On January 22 2012 07:20 Fatalize wrote: About the fact that French people are very hostile to tourists :
If you try to speak french, even if it's broken, they will be a lot less hostile, and will try to speak with you. if you try to speak english with them, the vast majority of people wont even try to understand what you want to say.
Some people (read: Americans) see this as rudeness, but i wonder what their reaction would be if somebody was asking them something in French in their country.
French people are hostile to everyone that isn't French. As evidenced by your post.
They're hostile to everyone that doesnt even attempt to speak french in France.
Most americans dont understand this concept. Since 99% of them couldnt even make a basic sentence in any non-english language.
But you seems to miss the point that there's a much more likely chance that the tourist asking you for help know english instead of french. It's not reasonable to expect a tourist to know french, however it's more reasonable to expect the tourist to at least know some english. Comparing using English asking for help in France and using French asking for help in english speaking country (e.g. USA) is just silly. So it's either french people (according to you) are extremely ignorant or they are hostile to every English speaker for no reason, your choice. Edit: Also as other have pointed out, they're very well maybe arrogance as well
Nothing against france, but sorry this is ridicously rude. Everyone knows english, how the fuck is someone supposed to know french? When I see tourists I don't care what language they speak, I'm always nice to them and give them directions, even if I have to use hand signals.
Also it's not the same to ask for directions in french on usa than on english in france, though I understand your point. Difference is anyone from latin america and most likely asia will have english as the common language with french.
So if I'm going on vacation to Europe and plan to visit the Netherlands, Germany, Spain, France, and and Italy then I should learn five different languages before travelling? Funny how the French are the only ones that think we should learn their language before travelling to their country for a short vacation. That's what's called arrogance.
For the love of god don't blindly believe everything you are reading here -_-
Also, how would you react if a foreign person came to you in your home country talking to you in a language you don't understand ? Most french people speak only french, simply because they don't have a need to ever speak english.
On January 22 2012 07:20 Fatalize wrote: About the fact that French people are very hostile to tourists :
If you try to speak french, even if it's broken, they will be a lot less hostile, and will try to speak with you. if you try to speak english with them, the vast majority of people wont even try to understand what you want to say.
Some people (read: Americans) see this as rudeness, but i wonder what their reaction would be if somebody was asking them something in French in their country.
French people are hostile to everyone that isn't French. As evidenced by your post.
They're hostile to everyone that doesnt even attempt to speak french in France.
Most americans dont understand this concept. Since 99% of them couldnt even make a basic sentence in any non-english language.
So if I'm going on vacation to Europe and plan to visit the Netherlands, Germany, Spain, France, and and Italy then I should learn five different languages before travelling? Funny how the French are the only ones that think we should learn their language before travelling to their country for a short vacation. That's what's called arrogance.
Not learn deeply, but atleast try to say a few words in it.
But native english speakers dont get it. They still think everybody in the world is supposed to speak english, and that they dont have to learn a foreign language even partially.
What good would a few words do? It wouldn't be enough to effectively communicate anything worthwhile. And it's not that everyone is supposed to speak English, however it is the most commonly understood language across Europe. So why learn a few words in 5+ different languages that won't actually help you communicate at all when most likely the people of that country will understand more English then you would be able to learn of their language, especially when having to learn multiple languages just for a few days stay in a certain country?
Nothing against france, but sorry this is ridicously rude. Everyone knows english, how the fuck is someone supposed to know french? When I see tourists I don't care what language they speak, I'm always nice to them and give them directions, even if I have to use hand signals.
Also it's not the same to ask for directions in french on usa than on english in france, though I understand your point. Difference is anyone from latin america and most likely asia will have english as the common language with french.
So if I'm going on vacation to Europe and plan to visit the Netherlands, Germany, Spain, France, and and Italy then I should learn five different languages before travelling? Funny how the French are the only ones that think we should learn their language before travelling to their country for a short vacation. That's what's called arrogance.
For the love of god don't blindly believe everything you are reading here -_-
Also, how would you react if a foreign person came to you in your home country talking to you in a language you don't understand ? Most french people speak only french, simply because they don't have a need to ever speak english.
I would be nice to them, they come from another country because they thought mine was nice; I said that above. If I don't speak their langueage I'll try to understand, use hand signals, or try to differ them to someone/somewhere who does -_-. Never be rude :p
Edit: I came in this thread for the lulz, but I'm completely amazed there is actually people who think its okay to be rude to someone who attempts to communicate in english instead of french.
Nothing against france, but sorry this is ridicously rude. Everyone knows english, how the fuck is someone supposed to know french? When I see tourists I don't care what language they speak, I'm always nice to them and give them directions, even if I have to use hand signals.
Also it's not the same to ask for directions in french on usa than on english in france, though I understand your point. Difference is anyone from latin america and most likely asia will have english as the common language with french.
So if I'm going on vacation to Europe and plan to visit the Netherlands, Germany, Spain, France, and and Italy then I should learn five different languages before travelling? Funny how the French are the only ones that think we should learn their language before travelling to their country for a short vacation. That's what's called arrogance.
For the love of god don't blindly believe everything you are reading here -_-
Also, how would you react if a foreign person came to you in your home country talking to you in a language you don't understand ? Most french people speak only french, simply because they don't have a need to ever speak english.
I would be nice to them, they come from another country because they thought mine was nice; I said that above. If I don't speak their langueage I'll try to understand, use hand signals, or try to differ them to someone/somewhere who does -_-. Never be rude :p
Edit: I came in this thread for the lulz, but I'm completely amazed there is actually people who think its okay to be rude to someone who attempts to communicate in english instead of french.
I don't think it's okay to be rude, but I think that the % of americans being rude to someone speaking chinese (for instance) to them is not lower than the % of french people being rude to someone speaking english to them...
Nothing against france, but sorry this is ridicously rude. Everyone knows english, how the fuck is someone supposed to know french? When I see tourists I don't care what language they speak, I'm always nice to them and give them directions, even if I have to use hand signals.
Also it's not the same to ask for directions in french on usa than on english in france, though I understand your point. Difference is anyone from latin america and most likely asia will have english as the common language with french.
So if I'm going on vacation to Europe and plan to visit the Netherlands, Germany, Spain, France, and and Italy then I should learn five different languages before travelling? Funny how the French are the only ones that think we should learn their language before travelling to their country for a short vacation. That's what's called arrogance.
For the love of god don't blindly believe everything you are reading here -_-
Also, how would you react if a foreign person came to you in your home country talking to you in a language you don't understand ? Most french people speak only french, simply because they don't have a need to ever speak english.
I would be nice to them, they come from another country because they thought mine was nice; I said that above. If I don't speak their langueage I'll try to understand, use hand signals, or try to differ them to someone/somewhere who does -_-. Never be rude :p
Edit: I came in this thread for the lulz, but I'm completely amazed there is actually people who think its okay to be rude to someone who attempts to communicate in english instead of french.
I don't think it's okay to be rude, but I think that the % of americans being rude to someone speaking chinese (for instance) to them is not lower than the % of french people being rude to someone speaking english to them...
wtf? how is this even related? Edit: The point is it is most reasonable to expect a person to be able to speak English instead of something else (or Chinese if ur Asian) but being rude to someone because they don't speak French is just stupid. Ofc it would be stupid if someone trying to use Chinese to non-Asian American but who would do that lol?
On January 22 2012 07:52 Thurken wrote: Don't emphasize what Fatalize said. Most people will speak with you even if you don't know a word in French... Or they'll try it at least
Both in Paris and Quebec City I faced pretty extreme prejudice for being an American youth. Store clerks would go as far as to sometimes even ignore me as if my business was completely unwanted. Not being able to speak French was a huge problem as most people wouldn't even try to communicate in English.
On January 22 2012 07:51 Newbistic wrote: French bashing is really just done because the French are easy to make fun of. You have to be a prude to take it that seriously.
Nothing against france, but sorry this is ridicously rude. Everyone knows english, how the fuck is someone supposed to know french? When I see tourists I don't care what language they speak, I'm always nice to them and give them directions, even if I have to use hand signals.
Also it's not the same to ask for directions in french on usa than on english in france, though I understand your point. Difference is anyone from latin america and most likely asia will have english as the common language with french.
So if I'm going on vacation to Europe and plan to visit the Netherlands, Germany, Spain, France, and and Italy then I should learn five different languages before travelling? Funny how the French are the only ones that think we should learn their language before travelling to their country for a short vacation. That's what's called arrogance.
For the love of god don't blindly believe everything you are reading here -_-
Also, how would you react if a foreign person came to you in your home country talking to you in a language you don't understand ? Most french people speak only french, simply because they don't have a need to ever speak english.
It's not blindly believing everything I read. I have personally experienced it. The French (Parisians) were by far the most rude, arrogant, untrustworthy people I met throughout my travels of 6 different European countries. Literally, the only people that tried to "help" or even speak a little English were scammers that were trying to steal my money, which even included the metro police or just your general scumbags (not much difference imo). They would not just simply ignore me, they would go out of their way to mislead me. It was the only city that I actually disliked visiting on my vacation. I could not wait to get out of there. Every city I visited I would rate 8-10 as far as the amount of pleasure I had while visiting. I would rate Paris a 0, which was solely based on the attitude of the locals towards me simply because I was an American. It seemed like a fine city other than the people that inhabited it.
Oh, and the way I would react to a foreigner that didn't speak English would be to help with hand gestures and if that didn't work I would put my hands up in a Day[9] shrug, say sorry and move along. I would most certainly not try to take advantage of them.
Nothing against france, but sorry this is ridicously rude. Everyone knows english, how the fuck is someone supposed to know french? When I see tourists I don't care what language they speak, I'm always nice to them and give them directions, even if I have to use hand signals.
Also it's not the same to ask for directions in french on usa than on english in france, though I understand your point. Difference is anyone from latin america and most likely asia will have english as the common language with french.
So if I'm going on vacation to Europe and plan to visit the Netherlands, Germany, Spain, France, and and Italy then I should learn five different languages before travelling? Funny how the French are the only ones that think we should learn their language before travelling to their country for a short vacation. That's what's called arrogance.
For the love of god don't blindly believe everything you are reading here -_-
Also, how would you react if a foreign person came to you in your home country talking to you in a language you don't understand ? Most french people speak only french, simply because they don't have a need to ever speak english.
It's not blindly believing everything I read. I have personally experienced it. The French (Parisians) were by far the most rude, arrogant, untrustworthy people I met throughout my travels of 6 different European countries. Literally, the only people that tried to "help" or even speak a little English were scammers that were trying to steal my money, which even included the metro police or just your general scumbags (not much difference imo). They would not just simply ignore me, they would go out of their way to mislead me. It was the only city that I actually disliked visiting on my vacation. I could not wait to get out of there. Every city I visited I would rate 8-10 as far as the amount of pleasure I had while visiting. I would rate Paris a 0, which was solely based on the attitude of the locals towards me simply because I was an American. It seemed like a fine city other than the people that inhabited it.
Seems like i need to cross out France in my list to do in the future. But do we have any Asian here on TL that went to France? I'm not sure how they treat Asian cause i'm one)
Nothing against france, but sorry this is ridicously rude. Everyone knows english, how the fuck is someone supposed to know french? When I see tourists I don't care what language they speak, I'm always nice to them and give them directions, even if I have to use hand signals.
Also it's not the same to ask for directions in french on usa than on english in france, though I understand your point. Difference is anyone from latin america and most likely asia will have english as the common language with french.
So if I'm going on vacation to Europe and plan to visit the Netherlands, Germany, Spain, France, and and Italy then I should learn five different languages before travelling? Funny how the French are the only ones that think we should learn their language before travelling to their country for a short vacation. That's what's called arrogance.
For the love of god don't blindly believe everything you are reading here -_-
Also, how would you react if a foreign person came to you in your home country talking to you in a language you don't understand ? Most french people speak only french, simply because they don't have a need to ever speak english.
It's not blindly believing everything I read. I have personally experienced it. The French (Parisians) were by far the most rude, arrogant, untrustworthy people I met throughout my travels of 6 different European countries. Literally, the only people that tried to "help" or even speak a little English were scammers that were trying to steal my money, which even included the metro police or just your general scumbags (not much difference imo). They would not just simply ignore me, they would go out of their way to mislead me. It was the only city that I actually disliked visiting on my vacation. I could not wait to get out of there. Every city I visited I would rate 8-10 as far as the amount of pleasure I had while visiting. I would rate Paris a 0, which was solely based on the attitude of the locals towards me simply because I was an American. It seemed like a fine city other than the people that inhabited it.
Seems like i need to cross out France in my list to do in the future. But do we have any Asian here on TL that went to France? I'm not sure how they treat Asian cause i'm one)
My experience is only representative of Paris. I've heard much better things about pretty much every other part of France, but can't speak from experience.
it may be true that many things are dominated by english, but imagine you go to brazil/argentina/any other latin country. You will be expected to speak at least some spanish/portuguese, since everyone there is speaking spanish/portuguese. I don't think anyone travels to those countries without at least some basic grasp of the spanish language, and it is fine that way. So i fully understand and respect french people wanting their language to be the dominant/main language, even for tourists. This sure sucks for europe, but we have many more languages than just two or three (plus dialect which complicate it even more if you haven't really learned that language). Due to the internet/movies/music/business, many people in europe know english, but this does not make it right to think it is the main language everyone should have to know. So needing french to go to france is like needing spanish to go to chile, and i would never advice france to "give up" their culture and language just so tourists have an easier time.
But how the french people behave is a completely different story. In my many encounters (i live ~10km away from the border to france, plus a lot of vacation over there, so i get my fair share of french) with french people, most of them were people i would rather not have made contact with. I think some of this attitude goes back to the high percentage of african descendants in france, who have a completely different attitude/way of living than the average central european does. But not having met many french people that i enjoyed being with does not keep me away from loving the french language/country/culture. And whenever they want to do something outside their country, they have to learn the language of that country (or english :p) as well, so it's not like they are having it easy (especially with their schools being really bad at teaching other languages. For example an exchange class had 7 years of german classes, yet they could not speak one sentence in german and we had to communicate in french all the time. And this happened not once during the time i was in school, but 4-5 times. Then they stopped the exchange program, since the exchange was kinda pointless).
Nothing against france, but sorry this is ridicously rude. Everyone knows english, how the fuck is someone supposed to know french? When I see tourists I don't care what language they speak, I'm always nice to them and give them directions, even if I have to use hand signals.
Also it's not the same to ask for directions in french on usa than on english in france, though I understand your point. Difference is anyone from latin america and most likely asia will have english as the common language with french.
So if I'm going on vacation to Europe and plan to visit the Netherlands, Germany, Spain, France, and and Italy then I should learn five different languages before travelling? Funny how the French are the only ones that think we should learn their language before travelling to their country for a short vacation. That's what's called arrogance.
For the love of god don't blindly believe everything you are reading here -_-
Also, how would you react if a foreign person came to you in your home country talking to you in a language you don't understand ? Most french people speak only french, simply because they don't have a need to ever speak english.
It's not blindly believing everything I read. I have personally experienced it. The French (Parisians) were by far the most rude, arrogant, untrustworthy people I met throughout my travels of 6 different European countries. Literally, the only people that tried to "help" or even speak a little English were scammers that were trying to steal my money, which even included the metro police or just your general scumbags (not much difference imo). They would not just simply ignore me, they would go out of their way to mislead me. It was the only city that I actually disliked visiting on my vacation. I could not wait to get out of there. Every city I visited I would rate 8-10 as far as the amount of pleasure I had while visiting. I would rate Paris a 0, which was solely based on the attitude of the locals towards me simply because I was an American. It seemed like a fine city other than the people that inhabited it.
Oh, and the way I would react to a foreigner that didn't speak English would be to help with hand gestures and if that didn't work I would put my hands up in a Day[9] shrug, say sorry and move along. I would most certainly not try to take advantage of them.
Well, the French themselves don't like parisians.... 'nuff saif...
On January 22 2012 08:08 brachester wrote:Seems like i need to cross out France in my list to do in the future. But do we have any Asian here on TL that went to France? I'm not sure how they treat Asian cause i'm one)
Parisians (and french in general) burn asians at the stake. And then they run around the fire singing patriotic songs. And after that they go to their usual [strike]chinese[/strike] FRENCH restaurant and mock every other country.
On January 22 2012 08:13 kaoka69 wrote: Actually those retarded stereotypes are perfect idiots filter if they are convincing some people not to visit france !
Why all this hate towards the French all of a sudden ? taking a break from the weekly anti american thread ? There should be a thread like this fro every country on the world every week.
I don't hate the french. I love their writers and their romantic period in the 1800's. But they forget who kept them safe from the turks all those centuries, and because of that my country is still tens of years behind everyone in the west > <
I'm french and i'm really surprised to see a so long conversation defending stereotypes. However i have no pretention to say French people are all good, but if you're looking for kind friends there are some, good starcraft players too, and so on... But if you're looking for jerks i don't really see the point of going so far... I guess everybody can find some so much closer...
I think only people who know nothing about world history and culture would bash France. France is a country that have done a lot of things that change the history of the world (both good and bad).
Also i think judging people by from what country they are is the most stupid thing one can do.
This thread is a joke. French bashing? Try to be a fucking german like me. On the internet, the first response to 'Im german' is almost exclusively something WW2 or nazi related. People in other countries seem to have the opinion that germany is still ruled by nazis and being german is just another term for being a nazi. Stereotypical bashing is nothing special, especially french bashing since the french may be seen as arrogant or whatever, but that's about it.
On January 22 2012 08:18 Mondieu wrote: Why all this hate towards the French all of a sudden ? taking a break from the weekly anti american thread ? There should be a thread like this fro every country on the world every week.
I don't hate the french. I love their writers and their romantic period in the 1800's. But they forget who kept them safe from the turks all those centuries, and because of that my country is still tens of years behind everyone in the west > <
I look at your dead serious comment and can't help but notice your "Romania" name tag. Along with your French handle.
If your country was smart like the French you would have learned how to surrender or run away.
Well I lived in Belgium for a bit for international study, and I found that a lot of the students there from France were split between stereotypical arrogant French arseholes who were ALWAYS Parisian, and everyone else who were really cool and normal, albeit with a hilarious accent There was one guy who keep going on about how everything was better in France so whenever something went wrong I'd say "well, it's not french so it's not perfect" and he'd agree with me, not realising I was taking the piss. Was fun The overally proud French language thing is hilarious in Belgium as well, my friend is from Antwerp and we went to Carrefour (supermarket chain in Belgium) and he literally got into a shouting match with the cash register lady because she wouldn't speak Flemish (which is Dutch basically) as he wouldn't speak French. It was so weird seeing two people from the same country refusing to communicate with each other out of pride.
So overall, the vast majority of Frenchies I've met are awesome, it's the Parisians I've had problems with and a lot of the stereotypical French arrogance comes from them.
On January 22 2012 08:35 Xiron wrote: This thread is a joke. French bashing? Try to be a fucking german like me. On the internet, the first response to 'Im german' is almost exclusively something WW2 or nazi related. People in other countries seem to have the opinion that germany is still ruled by nazis and being german is just another term for being a nazi. Stereotypical bashing is nothing special, especially french bashing since the french may be seen as arrogant or whatever, but that's about it.
Yeah, I actually feel bad for Germans for this very reason. Hell, I think you're the only country in the world with a "Museum of National Shame" (the Deutsches Historisches Museum).
On January 22 2012 08:35 Xiron wrote: This thread is a joke. French bashing? Try to be a fucking german like me. On the internet, the first response to 'Im german' is almost exclusively something WW2 or nazi related. People in other countries seem to have the opinion that germany is still ruled by nazis and being german is just another term for being a nazi. Stereotypical bashing is nothing special, especially french bashing since the french may be seen as arrogant or whatever, but that's about it.
Original question from an american after I said that I'm german: Is Hitler still the king of Germany? Why yes, yes he is...
Yeah, I guess as a french the only thing that make us french is our english accent besides that, i do travel a lot and for example, when i meet french people abroad we never agree about things that define us as french people when we're around a table with local people so no offence but "the french" doesn't mean a lot. Parisisans... i don't really known what that means too, but i guess some of them don't know a lot about the rest of France, thats pretty much all i could say, being honest.
Is it really hard to understand French bashing from Americans? Americans pride themselves as being rugged pioneers that live off the land and don't take shit from anyone. The French stereotypes are the opposite of that. Thus bashing. Just relax and laugh along.
On January 22 2012 08:53 C23 wrote: Yeah, I guess as a french the only thing that make us french is our english accent besides that, i do travel a lot and for example, when i meet french people abroad we never agree about things that define us as french people when we're around a table with local people so no offence but "the french" doesn't mean a lot. Parisisans... i don't really known what that means too, but i guess some of them don't know a lot about the rest of France, thats pretty much all i could say, being honest.
In english, Parisian = someone from Paris, sorry should have added that bit
99% of americans have no problem with the french, yes there are some stereotypes but every country has those, just because the media can encapsulate persons of interest doing it doesn't mean thats how we all think, especially among an unpopular candidate.
On January 22 2012 08:35 Xiron wrote: This thread is a joke. French bashing? Try to be a fucking german like me. On the internet, the first response to 'Im german' is almost exclusively something WW2 or nazi related. People in other countries seem to have the opinion that germany is still ruled by nazis and being german is just another term for being a nazi. Stereotypical bashing is nothing special, especially french bashing since the french may be seen as arrogant or whatever, but that's about it.
Original question from an american after I said that I'm german: Is Hitler still the king of Germany? Why yes, yes he is...
Hitler may not be king of Germany, but your grandparents were Nazis.
On January 22 2012 08:35 Xiron wrote: This thread is a joke. French bashing? Try to be a fucking german like me. On the internet, the first response to 'Im german' is almost exclusively something WW2 or nazi related. People in other countries seem to have the opinion that germany is still ruled by nazis and being german is just another term for being a nazi. Stereotypical bashing is nothing special, especially french bashing since the french may be seen as arrogant or whatever, but that's about it.
Original question from an american after I said that I'm german: Is Hitler still the king of Germany? Why yes, yes he is...
Hitler may not be king of Germany, but your grandparents were Nazis.
your grandparents were slave owners and mine sold them........... you really that dumb? believe this thread is about France.
on topic, dumb people say dumb shit, don't think it is as wide spread as you belief it to be. or i should say i hope.
On January 22 2012 08:35 Xiron wrote: This thread is a joke. French bashing? Try to be a fucking german like me. On the internet, the first response to 'Im german' is almost exclusively something WW2 or nazi related. People in other countries seem to have the opinion that germany is still ruled by nazis and being german is just another term for being a nazi. Stereotypical bashing is nothing special, especially french bashing since the french may be seen as arrogant or whatever, but that's about it.
Original question from an american after I said that I'm german: Is Hitler still the king of Germany? Why yes, yes he is...
Hitler may not be king of Germany, but your grandparents were Nazis.
I actually laughed when I read this retort, maybe because it was so foreseeable ^^ And my grandparents who live today both grew up after the war
We make fun of french, but it is mostly because the accent or make crude jokes about loosing or just sucking in pretty much every conflict since 1870.But it's a stupid joke I know, we jsut do it.. cuz it's fun >_> like we make jokes on pretty much everyone else too (especially americans!) but it's definately not serious and I doubt anyone is seriously bashing france, just making some casual jokes
Actually i'm living in Paris but i don't consider myself as Parisian because it's not my hometown, i'm just studying there(i'm from Reims)Everyday i go to my university meeting Parisians and other french people, i don't see no difference,i couldn't say even if we talk and so on, he would have to say me he spent all his life in paris to convince me he's a Parisian. If there is more substanciale things that foreingners known that could help me to make the difference i'd like to hear it. However it just looks like "Parisian" has been mostly used to say "french asshole".
Just from a personal perspective from an American, there are some major stereotypes for Frenchies, are 1) they smell bad, that's why they made cologne and perfume to cover the lack of showering. 2) they're arrogant, and overly nationalistic. (ie, every time stephano is mentioned there are 30-40 new accounts created on tl from france just to defend stephano). 3) they're giant metrosexual culture. 4) funny accent, which gets all the girls. 5) they made a cannon wall in, except left a giant hole in it (belgium). ^this is just a list of observation, not saying these are true.
I just noticed that I haven't read anything in this thread about the sexuality of french men, I know it can't be pretty nice for homosexuals when you use their preferences to redicule a whole country, but I'm sure that the Germans aren't the only ones who have the stereotype of the gay french man.
EDIT:Well, just when I write that somebody posts a comment above me about the metrosexuality of them, it might not be the same but I guess it's kind of similiar
On January 22 2012 09:06 Yggdrazil wrote: Speaking of stereotypes...
I laughed! Been waiting for someone to post somethin' like this xD
@SilentchiLL that's honestly the most common stereotype for people to choose when poking fun at the French (at least here in Virginia it is). Always get a good laugh when someone gets offended because they take it too seriously (though there are loads of rednecks here who believe this as fact...wish Darwin's Theory was a faster process)
Cuz the french ( according to my history teacher) are nothing but sissy's who get destroyed in just about every war but end up on the winning side for some reason.
On January 22 2012 09:23 mrRoflpwn wrote: Cuz the french ( according to my history teacher) are nothing but sissy's who get destroyed in just about every war but end up on the winning side for some reason.
French : "Si ceux qui disent du mal de moi savaient ce que je pense d'eux, ils en diraient bien davantage."
(Bad) translation : "If those who speak ill about me knew what i think about them, they would speak much more ill..."
As a french myself, i don't care about those stereotypes. As soon as i don't have to suffer them, i don't mind. You can't blame people for having opinions on things they don't even know, it's natural and country stereotypes are something that has always been and will go on for long !
Sorry if someone alrdy wrote what i will do, but i didn't read the entire topics.
Well, first, I'm french, student, 24, live in France, and i would say there are lots of dumbs in this country, as all countries have. There are a lot of problems but i also like my country because there are also beautiful things which strangers maybe can't understand. We generally are proud of our culture, our langage, etc.. ofc, they always are mistakes/failures, but who did not ? I personnally don't like the way where americans "impose" their culture to the world (in behalf of God sometimes). Maybe it's not the case, but it's how we usually see USA. And i would say, we are a country of protester(? not sure if it's the good word), so, we can't accept it ! Maybe because of our celtic/german/goth genes ahah I'm always aware to learn about different cultures, even i don't like them sometimes, but i don't want to be forced to earn something.
Bashing for funny things is nothing, it reveals where we come from, sometimes funny "cliché"(french are all guys with beret, baguett and red wine under the arm, it can see that sometimes TRUE STORY! I saw it myself !). Now we don't fight anymore in wars, so friendly bashing is another way to continue those little quarrels. Bashing hatefully, I personnally don't care. I just think, that kind of people are just retard, arrogant, ignorant... ; just ignore those people and it's ok. (It's valid for all sides). Unfortunatly, for what I know and understand, americans like when their politics say they are the best country, the best people, the best... In France, we don't really care about that, we just want to have a better life, have the best things for us, have politics who give us solutions, no matter who is the best in the world. It's a bit harsh to say that but we don't live for our country like americans would say, but we live with our culture which is important in many ways (dunno how to say it properly in english).
Also, i want to add. Americans always talk about the WWII and our coward retreat. Yeah, we are grateful they helped (i am saying "helped", without Resistance, maybe D-Day would never have happened, who knows) us to liberate our country (and even, if we remember well, they did not take part in this conflict before Pearl Harbor, even when usa's friend UK was under huge fire). I'd like to think americans would have done the same if they had no solution to fight (probably what Pétain's thoughts at this moment). Also, if my memory is good enough, i learnt in history general Lafayette (i think he's the good one), french guy, fought alongside americans to beat some UK battleships (not battlecruisers i think^^). Maybe they should remember that fact sometimes.
And sorry for the poor English i wrote, but educational system did not provide a real good teaching of other langages when i was younger (even i don't like learn new langages). I think they are now more aware of this fact and they are trying to catch up the time they lost, when our world is going to be more global everyday. We are far behind compared to some other European countries. But as you can see, some of us are trying to be understandable from you, english speakers, and i do my best to improve my english, even if I still don't like the langage. I think i have learn more english on the internet, reading blogs, news, etc.. than school. Well, i just hope you'll understand me.
Wow, a long post for a guy who doesn't like english :D
On January 22 2012 09:23 mrRoflpwn wrote: Cuz the french ( according to my history teacher) are nothing but sissy's who get destroyed in just about every war but end up on the winning side for some reason.
The OP was specifically asking about political bashing of French by the USA, and I think it is at least a little bit interesting. This is my opinion.
Everything in American politics is spun and each side always exaggerate the other's opinions and make up facts about one another so that the general public find it extremely difficult to know anything concrete or come to sensible conclusions. There is no independent news agency or any media that is free of political spin, and it used as a tool to manipulate the opinions of ordinary people. I'm not a conspiracy nut, but I do think that there are not rules or conventions that stop the 2 main political parties interferring with the news and media.
This is important because it is in this environment that the french have become stereotyped as everything the US political system HATES. In France they are proudly socialist, and this means that trade unions represent portions of the workforce in the poltical world. France has a high tax rate, but this is balanced by the high degree of social welfare provided by the state. Most people in the US would place the Democrats on the left and the Republicans on the right, but compared to Europe they are both FAR right wing.
The USA has never understood socialism because it never had a Monarchy or a class system, and as such never had a people's rebellion in which the rights of ordinary working people were the central issue. The US system was created by rich people who were therefore powerful. This system has never been challenged so it is that the whole of politics is determined by rich people to this day. It is also for this reason why business and personal wealth accumulation can sit so hand in hand in the USA, whilst in other countries being a political representative is seen as "serving" (so it is not correct to personally gain financially from your position whilst you are in office at least).
Anyway, the point is that the media have linked french with "socialism", and this word has been spun and misrepresented so much by the politically controlled media, that it immediately engeneders panic in 90% of US citizens, without any real understanding of why.
Conservative politicians like to bash Europe in general...something about them being too socialist or something. France seems to be the butt of the most jokes for some reason....I think its largely because it is a large country with a fairly different culture (the UK for instance is a bit too close to home). Their stereotypes of being snobbish about arts, fine foods etc... seems to make them (in some peoples eyes) the antithesis of the "hard working", lower-middle class american voters who politicians are trying to attract.
I cringe when I hear politicians do it...but I have to admit I get a chuckle out of French stereotyping now and again. Any nationality with such a distinct language and culture is going to have some jokes poked at it. (I really do hope I get to visit France some day)
Some of the media quotes were absolutely priceless. The faulty tanks that only moved backward being repackaged and sold to France, lol. I find humor in all of this, just as I find humor in American stereotypes. Clearly they are exaggerations and generally unrepresentative of the majority, so why not just laugh and enjoy them? People are too serious these days. Life is short, enjoy yourselves.
It's kinda weird that there isn't a stereotype like : french are terribad at english, because it's the case for the majority of french. Hopefully we will improve on this point in the future
On January 22 2012 10:00 Poopi wrote: It's kinda weird that there isn't a stereotype like : french are terribad at english, because it's the case for the majority of french. Hopefully we will improve on this point in the future
Actually there is, but the same goes for greeks, italians, spanish and portuguese, so it's not french specific;)
Us Americans love the French, admire the French even. You can only really make fun of someone without inciting hatred if you like them and they know you like them.
I think it's hilarious that the first few posts in this thread are from people from Sweden and Singapore and Germany etc. talking about how arrogant we are and how we envy the French. The truth is that common American people don't really talk about or even think about the French. Like..ever. Completely off our radars I would say.
Guys 26 pages about France, this alone proves that France is awesome.
I just ate some cheese and it was realllly good.
Things I haven't seen mentioned much so far and that I think are true: 1) Parisians are metrosexuals (especially the girls). They will make you look like you've only bought clothes at charity shops. 2) French people dislike parisian people. 3) The character of parisian people comes from the parisian lifestyle: individualism, "free thinking", 10 million people + all the tourists of the world in such a small place, loneliness. 4) French people overall are actually quite nice. 5) French people complain about the USA not liking them, but bash the USA hardcore all the time. This is because they think that the USA are really that bad.
To be fair, the US really seems like two countries sometimes (red/blue or whatever you want to call it) and some stereotypes are not that far fetched in parts.
On January 22 2012 11:26 Dbars wrote: I am jelly of all the great places they have to eat in Paris and i am stuck here with places like Red lobster -_-
It could be worse- you could be forced to eat in the UK
I thought this thread was for bashing the French. I got excited.
So in short, this all started with the traditional English bias against the French, dating back to the 30 years war and the like, where the French reportedly got their asses kicked.
Since then, the French have an abyssmal record of defending their own terf, with their greatest success in war being Napoleon's almost complete European conquest. The fact that Nazi Germany literally walked around French defenses in WW2 and America/England had to come bail you out really made it worse.
The other bit is your accent - everywhere else in the western world, ending your sentence with and upward accent makes it sound like a question. That makes you sound extra smug. Which is unbefitting for a country that can't win a war to save their life.
We Americans are truly greatful to you, however, for saving our asses in the American revolution, an often forgotten fact. Also cool statue you sent us.
On January 22 2012 10:00 Poopi wrote: It's kinda weird that there isn't a stereotype like : french are terribad at english, because it's the case for the majority of french. Hopefully we will improve on this point in the future
how could we bash france for having terribad english when we have terribad every other language on the planet.
Parisians really do suck, but French people don't at all.
In the states we just bash on the french for surrendering during wars. Thats the only real joke that floats around. As for the reason. I wouldnt take it too personally its all in good fun. After all you helped us gain our independence, we like you for that lol
We saved them in 2 world wars, and yet when American Bombers were sent from England to Bomb Tripoli during the Reagan years, they would not let the bombers fly over the French Airspace, so we had to fly around France to get to our target. The French also have some resentment towards us because at one time French was the language of the world, then it became English because of Great Britain and the U.S. Those are some of the biggest reasons for a lot of bashing...
Just wanted to post in this because like a lot of people in this post, I am an American.
I don't know if this applies to everyone in the United States, but here is how I feel about it. I learned in grade school that France was really great. They helped us out in the Revolutionary War, and we fought with them in World War I and II. You know kind of like that friend who has always got your back, and you have always got his. Somewhere along the line the idea got communicated that a lot of French people (along with a sizable portion of the world) just hated America. It also seemed like it came out of no where, in other words, for no reason. So the obvious and natural reaction (not necessarily the right one) is to say that they are just jealous (and also poke fun at them, etc. etc.). So basically, in all seriousness I like France, but then again, I may not be the majority.
Also, out of just sheer belligerence...
On January 22 2012 11:29 Deezl wrote: We Americans are truly greatful to you, however, for saving our asses in the American revolution, an often forgotten fact. Also cool statue you sent us.
They helped us, but we still would have won the Revolutionary war without them...
There was a time in Post WWII France where everything that was American (things like Coke, for example) were very disliked and even the subject of serious political/legal discussion. I think that the French are very proud of their country and their culture, not unlike the USA. The fact that they are so similar in that regard and the fact that aspects of their culture are diametrically opposed creates friction.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
..... WHAT?
My favorite is when people call the French cowards, yet don't realize why Paris is home to so many timeless works of art. Or why we all aren't peasants and serfs still.
Also, Germany vs France wasn't a fair fight in either war.
On January 22 2012 08:18 Mondieu wrote: Why all this hate towards the French all of a sudden ? taking a break from the weekly anti american thread ? There should be a thread like this fro every country on the world every week.
I don't hate the french. I love their writers and their romantic period in the 1800's. But they forget who kept them safe from the turks all those centuries, and because of that my country is still tens of years behind everyone in the west > <
You bait me kill ! Pour Poitiers ! Wait they're not turk ... I love parisian, but only girls. To be honest, I don't mind all the jokes on french people, as some of them are pretty funny. I'm sure a lot of people who have black/jew/white friends often lauch at them with them. If it's all in good fun, it's okay.
I'm actually pretty surprised at how seriously some people in this thread are taking the issue. I bash people of all races and nationalities all the time and of course it's not because I seriously believe any of it. The entire reason these stereotypes are funny is because everyone KNOWS they're a baseless load of shit to begin with. Some of you guys need to develop a sense of humor...
Actually, most Americans like france. The jokes about surrender and snotty people are all good-natured, and I think that France is the USA's #1 tourist destination. After reading this thread, it seems like Europeans bash the french 20X more than we do.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
..... WHAT?
My favorite is when people call the French cowards, yet don't realize why Paris is home to so many timeless works of art. Or why we all aren't peasants and serfs still.
Also, Germany vs France wasn't a fair fight in either war.
c'est la vie
Wasn't a fair fight lol? I really don't know if you're trying to defend France or Germany in saying that because it's such an arbitrary statement.
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
..... WHAT?
My favorite is when people call the French cowards, yet don't realize why Paris is home to so many timeless works of art. Or why we all aren't peasants and serfs still.
Also, Germany vs France wasn't a fair fight in either war.
c'est la vie
Wasn't a fair fight lol? I really don't know if you're trying to defend France or Germany in saying that because it's such an arbitrary statement.
I'm obviously defending frenchmen against the accusation of being cowards by saying that there were much larger factors at play than the vigor of the French armed forces in both wars, and also pointed out that the inconsistency of those remarks with the fact that France had the biggest balls in Europe for >300 years prior to the wars.
Dumb people with no culture are jelly of it and since they can't have it ( remember your french lessons gentlemen ? ) they bash that beautiful hexagon.
Who else than a frenchman could solve that mystery ?
On January 22 2012 12:27 AcrosstheSky wrote: Probably something to do with World War II where the French just rolled over....
Germany invaded France through Belgium. What's your opinions on the Belgians? Do you honestly believe any country in the world could have stood up to Germany in 1941?
On January 22 2012 12:27 AcrosstheSky wrote: Probably something to do with World War II where the French just rolled over....
Germany invaded France through Belgium. What's your opinions on the Belgians? Do you honestly believe any country in the world could have stood up to Germany in 1941?
I've been to Belgium, once, for a few hours, and one guy was a dick to me in a train station, and he probably wasn't Belgian, and I just realized now that my opinion that Belgium sucks/Belgians are assholes is based entirely on that.
If we really want to talk about the biggest fails in WW2, its funny how nobody mentions Neville Chamberlain, signing over the Sudetenland meant that Germany basically got the Czech border defenses for free to inspect and practice on. The whole policy of appeasement opened the flood gates for German aggression in a way.
Living in America but having spent a large amount of time in France, I can say that my own personal experience is that Americans are stuck on the stereotype. Most of the people I've spoken to have never been to France or met any French nationals and so just use all the stupid old jokes they've heard all their lives. There is a lot of talk about the French being "rude" and "unfriendly" but I have never found this to be the case. I've spent time in nearly every major French city and I've always found them to be exceptionally polite, helpful, and kind. I think when the French are aggressive it's because people come there and expect them to speak English, rather than making the effort to speak French and respect their culture. Some Americans, emphasis on some, don't respect other cultures as much as they should, and that can rile up other nations. I absolutely do not blame other nations at all for getting irritated when they are not respected; that is true of every citizen regardless of country.
I do not speak fluent French by any means, but even the effort to speak it and to acknowledge and respect that I am in their country and should make the effort to learn their customs goes miles. I personally recommend, while acknowledging that I am by no means any world-wise or diplomatic-minded person, that everyone make an effort to respect the country you are visiting. Besides, why make enemies when you could make friends? Other countries are interesting!
Well for one thing, France is not a very welcoming country in terms of English speaking travelers. From what I understand, speaking English tends to earn you the cold shoulder in France. Although this is understandable (it can be irritating to hear so much Spanish in America when you don't know a single bit of it), Americans tend to be somewhat spoiled, since it is the international language and widely spoken in many countries. I've heard of people from foreign countries that brag about their nation's greatness on the basis of how educated their people are in the English language. However, if the French are indeed stubborn against English speakers, American's are not going to like them very much.
I feel like this is kinda what is going on in Canada today with French speaking Quebec. Having to deal with a second language and having a people that demand the rest of the nation recognize a secondary language, because they, a single province, speak it as their native tongue, does not seem very fair. Apparently this is the reason that shipping costs to and from Canada are so high. This being said, there seems to be a constant battle between the English and French language that will just fuel this rivalry/hate.
ive actually heard someone say to a clerc in a paris shop:english motherfucker,do you speak it! yeah the guy was probably trying to be funny(found it funny myself).or he was just a jerk. For every funny guy visiting paris,we get 10 jerks,guess why lots of parisians are rude to tourists:o (far from a majority i might add).
What some of you guys said is true,if you want people in paris to be nice to you,just start you phrase with excusez moi ou bonjour,you dont have to say any other french word afterwards,i guarantee theyll be polite and friendly.
Being as honest as I can think as an American, I'm pretty sure it has something to do with France not offering it's support to US during most of the recent wars America has been in. But, I really don't remember why we do/did it (I personally don't).
On January 21 2012 21:35 Euronyme wrote: Americans envy the French in every way possible, the English have them as rivals. There are also some irritation left as the French practically didn't fight in WW2, even though they practically caused it.
..... WHAT?
My favorite is when people call the French cowards, yet don't realize why Paris is home to so many timeless works of art. Or why we all aren't peasants and serfs still.
Also, Germany vs France wasn't a fair fight in either war.
c'est la vie
Wasn't a fair fight lol? I really don't know if you're trying to defend France or Germany in saying that because it's such an arbitrary statement.
I'm obviously defending frenchmen against the accusation of being cowards by saying that there were much larger factors at play than the vigor of the French armed forces in both wars, and also pointed out that the inconsistency of those remarks with the fact that France had the biggest balls in Europe for >300 years prior to the wars.
Well I don't think many people are serious about that accusation, it's more of a joke people like to make. I wouldn't say France had the biggest balls in Europe in the centuries leading up to the war though early on they were always rivaled with England/Austria, they really only had dominance when they peaked in the Napoleonic wars which went to shit in the end, and then they were ultimately overthrown by Prussia in 1871 as the big-boss of Europe. You're right though that people often overlook the details of French military history in the 300 or so years leading up to WW1, but it just goes back to the fact that it's just a joke, not a scientific claim of fact lol.
On January 22 2012 12:27 AcrosstheSky wrote: Probably something to do with World War II where the French just rolled over....
Germany invaded France through Belgium. What's your opinions on the Belgians? Do you honestly believe any country in the world could have stood up to Germany in 1941?
From my understanding, Belgium pretty much saved France's/Entente's ass in WW1 by delaying the Germans far longer than they should have. WW1 was a complete mess on all sides though to be fair.
And are you really trying to compare Belgium to Germany/France in terms of what should be expected in military strength?.
Also, are you really telling people to educate themselves and linking sparknotes lol?
On January 22 2012 12:27 AcrosstheSky wrote: Probably something to do with World War II where the French just rolled over....
Germany invaded France through Belgium. What's your opinions on the Belgians? Do you honestly believe any country in the world could have stood up to Germany in 1941?
From my understanding, Belgium pretty much saved France's/Entente's ass in WW1 by delaying the Germans far longer than they should have. WW1 was a complete mess on all sides though to be fair.
And are you really trying to compare Belgium to Germany/France in terms of what should be expected in military strength?.
Also, are you really telling people to educate themselves and linking sparknotes lol?
Funny thing. A major reason America went to war with Germany was because German U-boats kept targeting American tradeships in an attempt to starve England. The reason England went to war with Germany is because Germany went to war with Belgium. And the only reason Germany went to war with Belgium was because they wouldn't let German troops travel through their country in order to avoid the fortress wall that France had built over the years along the German/French border. Although I'm sure most of you guys know this. I just find this thought hilarious, because everyone was basically some degree of neutral before the war. And both England and America had at times considered joining Germany's side of the battle.
On January 22 2012 12:27 AcrosstheSky wrote: Probably something to do with World War II where the French just rolled over....
Germany invaded France through Belgium. What's your opinions on the Belgians? Do you honestly believe any country in the world could have stood up to Germany in 1941?
From my understanding, Belgium pretty much saved France's/Entente's ass in WW1 by delaying the Germans far longer than they should have. WW1 was a complete mess on all sides though to be fair.
And are you really trying to compare Belgium to Germany/France in terms of what should be expected in military strength?.
Also, are you really telling people to educate themselves and linking sparknotes lol?
Funny thing. A major reason America went to war with Germany was because German U-boats kept targeting American tradeships in an attempt to starve England. The reason England went to war with Germany is because Germany went to war with Belgium, who, because they were originally neutral, England felt was an injustice. And the only reason Germany went to war with Belgium was because they wouldn't let German troops travel through their country in order to avoid the fortress wall that France had built over the years along the German/French border. Although I'm sure most of you guys know this. I just find this thought hilarious, because everyone was basically some degree of neutral before the war. And both England and America had at times considered joining Germany's side of the battle.
Entire reason I always thought the Schlieffen (spelling?) plan was completely backwards lol, but I'm no expert. Too add insult to injury, Italy ended up flopping over too when they were an original member of the central powers. I kinda feel bad because so many things went completely wrong for Germany lol, but Wilhelm II deserved it for ditching Bismarck.
On January 22 2012 12:27 AcrosstheSky wrote: Probably something to do with World War II where the French just rolled over....
Germany invaded France through Belgium. What's your opinions on the Belgians? Do you honestly believe any country in the world could have stood up to Germany in 1941?
Americans kids are making jokes about how french ancestors are freaking cowards and then are surprised to be hated for it. I wonder how you would react if nazis invaded your country, raped your wifes, killed your children, deported a part of the pôpulation in death camps, burned your cities and terrorized your people for 5 years? But yea let's make shallow jokes about it and pretend it's not a big deal. I'm ok with that but dont ask to be respected by the people you are insulting.
On January 22 2012 14:14 gds wrote: Americans kids are making jokes about how french ancestors are freaking cowards and then are surprised to be hated for it. I wonder how you would react if nazis invaded your country, raped your wifes, killed your children, deported a part of the pôpulation in death camps, burned your cities and terrorized your people for 5 years? But yea let's make shallow jokes about it and pretend it's not a big deal. I'm ok with that but dont ask to be respected by the people you are insulting.
Americans bashing everyone else when they're the laughing stock of the world. It's nothing new my friend. But if I could put this 'bashing' on anything, it would be the fact that the French surrendered in WW2 so fast. It was a completely justified surrender, most people don't understand this.
You have to keep in mind how wrong it is to say that all Americans think X, Y, or Z.
Regarding the OP video: when Mitt Romney is criticized for speaking French, it is people within his party who criticize him. For some people in America, France represents pretentious urban sophistication, which they vaguely equate with American liberalism, impractical idealism, and all things un-godly. Why? I'll leave that answer to someone else. But I suspect it has roots in culture and contemporary politics more than war history or tourist behavior.
On January 22 2012 14:34 churbro wrote: But if I could put this 'bashing' on anything, it would be the fact that the French surrendered in WW2 so fast. It was a completely justified surrender, most people don't understand this.
People tend to view it as a "France sucked" sort of thing when it's closer to a "Germany was OP" sort of thing.
On January 22 2012 14:34 churbro wrote: Americans bashing everyone else when they're the laughing stock of the world. It's nothing new my friend. But if I could put this 'bashing' on anything, it would be the fact that the French surrendered in WW2 so fast. It was a completely justified surrender, most people don't understand this.
laughing stock of the world? -_- so much unjustified hate
On January 21 2012 21:23 aTnClouD wrote: Man everyone bash french people as much as they do with americans. They have so many people with strong nationalistic attitude that just pisses off everybody else. I have nothing against these people who believe their country is the absolute best (when it's not), I just think it's silly, but I understand why the world doesn't like these countries.
Thats actually really funny coming from an italian. First of, I'm french, and I actually agree with most of the stereotypes about french, yes when people come in France they dont feel welcome, french people dont make effort and very few even try to speak few english words. I've been all around Europe (well more than 10 countries so far), and yes, France sucks on that, but thats not what americans hate about us, 98% of them dont even know why they hate us, just like they hate arabs without even knowing them, so I dont really care.
But to Cloud, this seriously made me laugh, like I just said, i've been in many countries around Europe, and you know what place I could seriously point out that something was wrong? Italy, it is the only country i've been in where I really thought "Man, this cant be a coincidence anymore, people are hostiles, unpolite, rude and so fucking cocky around here", and that was in Milan, Venise, Turin. So yeah, french quite sucks (once again coming from a french), but Italia seemed worse, ahah, apart from that, Hungary, Austria, Germany, Denmark etc etc, you could clearly see a different mindset going on, I would be the first one to say "you cant say that seing so few people", actually you can, you can feel the atmosphere and tendancies quite clearly after a few days spent in a country. Fact is everybody hates french without even having good reasons, so whatever, glad I'm in the english speaking non narrow minded part of the french population. But again, an italian pointing that out just, lmao
P.S: The fact that americans hate France because of the Irak thing is just pathetic, anyone with even a little knowledge about what was going on would have agreed with that decision, so yeah, you can bash all you want on that, at least our government didnt participate in an oil stealing war
There are SO many people making blanket statements. I personally, along with many others don't judge people I don't know, especially Countries I have never been to, or researched. No Country is this or that, no one group of people all share the same likes and dislikes.
IGNORANT people are IGNORANT. Ignorant people are every where, and they are usually the most vocal, thus what you see and hear is all from the yelling idiots; the bad side. You often hear the bad that comes out of a Country, stop giving random %'s of people you think in a Country believe this or that.
The reason why everybody hates each other is because people make sweeping generalizations and assumptions about people, or topics they know nothing about.
I live in New York city, there are so many different kinds of people it's astounding. I have met assholes and scumbags, generous and kind people of every race, and never, unless I'm joking, do I make generalizations about Country's, people, race, etc.
This is part of the reason it'l take an Alien invasion to get the world to work together, we need a common enemy for people to forget their differences.
On January 22 2012 14:34 churbro wrote: But if I could put this 'bashing' on anything, it would be the fact that the French surrendered in WW2 so fast. It was a completely justified surrender, most people don't understand this.
People tend to view it as a "France sucked" sort of thing when it's closer to a "Germany was OP" sort of thing.
Ahahah, I think that sums it up pretty well about the idiotic WW2 debate, "oh french were such cowards", oh yeah, it aint like not surrendering would have caused the death of potentially millions of civilians, I love when a nerd comes up with statements such as those, it's so fucking stupid that it becomes funny
I love France. I have some cousins living over there, and I was amazed by the art, wine, and food over there. Man, here in America, it's really damn hard to get really good quality cheese. I got to go there again, because bread plus cheese and wine is enough of an excuse to visit. I remember eating something good that was like a meatloaf, think it was called a terrin or something.
On January 21 2012 21:48 Nightshake wrote: Im french and I live in France. And this country has a lot of dumb people. Education and political system suck hard, and a lot of people are just unsociable and always unhappy. Not to mention, the arrogance of French (well this is characteristic and not that bad as every country has people with a main default).
But it's a beautiful country, and you can meet great people. And there is a reason why French culture is so well-known.
The thing is that Americans think that French are cowards who didn't take part in the WWII. Well, we got attacked by a huge ass army with a crazy dictator. Pétain, the Maréchal at this time (the commander of the army), decided to cooperate with the nazis. And that's why people don't like French. I'd like to say that after WW2, Pétain got executed for cooperating with the nazis.
It wasn't that you guys got attacked and lost, its how much the French bragged about the Maginot Line prior to World War 2.
The Maginot Line was the series of fortresses and defenses on the Western border of France built following World War 1. The French claimed it to be impenetrable and well.....history speaks for itself. The Wehrmacht just plowed through the Ardennes on their way to Paris. France was a large domino to fall in the war because Germany found itself gazing across the channel at London (and eventually bombing the shit out of it)
French are arrogant, Americans are stupid, Italians are nationalistic, Kiwis are idiots, Icelanders are narrow-minded, Canadians are jerks
can someone close this thread? Arrogant/Stupid/Nationalistic/Idiotic/Narrow-Minded/Mean people are everywhere in every country, everyone needs to stop generalizing
On January 22 2012 12:10 LegendaryZ wrote: I'm actually pretty surprised at how seriously some people in this thread are taking the issue. I bash people of all races and nationalities all the time and of course it's not because I seriously believe any of it. The entire reason these stereotypes are funny is because everyone KNOWS they're a baseless load of shit to begin with. Some of you guys need to develop a sense of humor...
The fact that Gingrich considered that attacking Romney for speaking French was an effective tactic for swaying voters suggests to me that quite a few people do take that seriously.
On January 22 2012 16:25 xAPOCALYPSEx wrote: can someone close this thread? Arrogant/Stupid/Nationalistic/Idiotic/Narrow-Minded/Mean people are everywhere in every country, everyone needs to stop generalizing
Yeah, my thoughts too.
Any thread not about WWII where people start discussing WWII to back up their points is sure to be a dumb thread.
TL;DR Why so serious? The "bashing", is a joke, a joke! There are nice people in France too. Worst-xenophobic experience for me ever was in South-Korea, yet I think Koreans are nice people (met many there), so don't make wrong generalizations!
"French bashing" is never really serious for the majority of americans. Bashing foreign countries exists everywhere, it makes you feel all better inside as one's country citizen. Let's be honest there, we all have fun at the expense of the others!
It all comes down to a cultural shock of some sort. I'm French myself and typically, the french have a long history of opposing against US policies, but I'd say it's not specifically anti-US, it's more like a broader rejection of globalization and parts of the modern way of life. For example, most french would rather live a peaceful and happy life (working as less as possible with a "good enough" salary) rather than work more to turn a greater profit. That alone seems bizarre to many of my foreign friends. It's not laziness, it's just that our views about life priorities are different.
But the french being the very vocal critics they are, of course, when they aren't happy about stuff, they'll go to great lengths to tell it to you "in your face" even when it's unwanted (that's how we are educated as children, we have to be critical, we have to voice our concerns so it's only natural some will go overboard without thinking twice)!
Don't judge yet, cause the majority of educated french citizen will still be nice and good buddies to have (if you can overcome the silly and atrocious Frenglish accent that is)!
The political drive behind bashing campaigns is "French oppose the US quite often" => "you frequent/eat/speak French = you like/agree with the French = you don't support your country enough". No need to be a rocket scientist to see how weak that logic is... (but shallow arguments like that are used in France too! Sarkozy is often criticized as "pro-US" even nicknamed "Sarko, the American"), it's just an under-handed political tactic to imply a politician is not focusing enough on his own country.
Still, for those highlighting rude/xenophobic behavior in France, It's quite rare I believe and mostly a result of the language barrier (French are terrible at English, not because they don't want to be good, but rather because teachers are just god awful). Yet, if you ask me, it's silly for native english speakers to expect every foreigners to speak English fluently, let alone, in some other country.
When I went to South Korea, I can assure you it was waaaaay worse than in any other country I've been too! Let me explain : I happen to be half-chinese, so I often got mistaken as a "local" (or half-korean) and most people would expect me to speak in korean too, and myself being able to speak only in English, I got the cold shower (felt more like Ice Cubes shower) too many times to count (heck, a few taxi drivers even nearly kicked me out of the car! wtf?!). Compared to this all foreigners that "looked foreign enough" (I'm looking at you blondies and blue eyed handsomes caucasians), this was hell! You had it easy guys! People helping you out of the blue, progamers giving you free goodies, all people looking your way! Don't give me that "French are unwelcoming" shit... lol
It took me 2 weeks worth of Korean basic learning and practice (proper conversation introductions, excuses, directions, explaining where I'm from, how and why I like Korea, etc) before I could enjoy traveling across places or asking strangers for help without them being rude. Am I now bashing koreans? Nope (they have imba girls with atomic-sexy bodies so "make love not war" is all good for me)!
why isn't this thread more moderated/closed? It's so full of useless hate/stupid posts that it's almost depressing.
It could have been interesting though, to learn about how politically significant can a X-bashing be in America. Polls, how many voters care, etc I'd actually be worried if I live in a country where bashing a candidate based on something like that could be of political value.
EPT
. But there's a lot of cool French people as well so it really depends on the person. 
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If some Americans or British want to spat, insult, laught towards us and make a strong French-bashing, they can do that, it's not important.
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