BrodiaQ United States. January 22 2012 03:41. Posts 827 PM Profile Blog Quote # The feeling I get from the French jokes/hate is mostly to do with the people and the history with the two World Wars. There is, in my opinion, a general feeling throughout American Society that we had to enter WW1 and WW2 because France couldn't take care of itself and we had to save them. A lot of Americans characterize French people as ungrateful because it seems like the French haven't done anything to repay us for our intervention.
Before saying something, you better check if it's right. the USA entered World War 1 only because its ships got sank by the german submarines and World War 2 because of Pearl Harbor.
Phosphore, I believe you have misinterpreted his post. He is not making a statement as fact, he is saying in his opinion, many Americans THINK the U.S. saved France in WWII. This is his perspective about the belief of Americans, not his personal belief.
I second his evaulation. There are many Americans who have this twisted view of WWII that essentially holds that America saved France and everyone else in WWII. I know this is not the case, but trust me there are many Americans who are ignorant in this regard.
BrodiaQ United States. January 22 2012 03:41. Posts 827 PM Profile Blog Quote # The feeling I get from the French jokes/hate is mostly to do with the people and the history with the two World Wars. There is, in my opinion, a general feeling throughout American Society that we had to enter WW1 and WW2 because France couldn't take care of itself and we had to save them. A lot of Americans characterize French people as ungrateful because it seems like the French haven't done anything to repay us for our intervention.
Before saying something, you better check if it's right. the USA entered World War 1 only because its ships got sank by the german submarines and World War 2 because of Pearl Harbor.
Half truths
US entered WW1 because of 2 reasons (not one as stated above): 1) Unrestricted Submarine warfare (not just the sinking of the RMS Lusitania) 2) Zimmerman Telegram
Because of Pearl Harbor US entered the Pacific War not the European Front. They only entered WW2 because of German's declaration of war against them on Dec. 11th.
Well personally (I'm not American I've just lived here for 6 years) the feel I get from most of Europe is that they all generally hate Americans or think all Americans are dumb/useless/bigots. Mostly my experience with this stigma is in gaming community's such as World of Warcraft to use an example the North American guilds were generally behind Europeans you could see the slander all over forums.
Then in reality you have politics where the French refused to assist in engaging or supporting America's 'War on Terror'.
There's also World War II where the French basically got walked over by the Germans but that happened to a lot of European nations at that time. Poland for example was totally unprepared. Remember the Maginot Line, an impervious line of defense in between France that was meant to hold off attacks with turrets and fortress's that the Germans walked around and invaded France from behind.
Still in my personal everyday life I never see people walking around or ever bringing up the French at all. As most people have better things to do.
To the above posters, of course America didn't enter either world war to save France as a reason but are you so arrogant that you disregard the fact that Americans are the reason France was liberated? The reason Britain wasn't overrun by Nazis?
Sure they're not the entire reason the War against Germany was won it was a cooperation between many different countries but the fact remains what would have happened if they didn't show up at all?
Still to rest on your laurels of a war I'm sure all of us here never partook in is stupid and America should not hold them indebted for liberating them as a consequence of shutting down the nazi aggression.
I find it sad though that this animosity exists when there should be a healthy relationship.
Dear lord. This thread is a playground for admins to ban people. There are probably a few in the shadows of this thread right now XD
But all joking aside, using President Bush as a representative of anything related to America hurts inside. That man does NOT stand for anything about an American. However, we do have many people just as stupid as him in this country :/
On January 22 2012 04:00 fatguyallen wrote: Do you actually need a reason to mock French people ? They're... French, it all comes natural
Ha ! Very funny, now give me my wallet back! As said by others, the "surrender" stereotype is pretty funny when France has the highest win/loss ratio (150%) and the highest number of wars waged in the world. Especially from americans whose only victory was helping us back during WW2, most of their other military operations were either failures or so-so at best, despite the propaganda. We also don't spend our time shooting one another.
Also, to the WW2 entry discussion higher up, the US pretty much forced Japan to declare war on them by starving them out of the ressources they usually exported to them. 100% of the japanese oil was from the US. That kind of sanction is pretty much a declaration of war.
BrodiaQ United States. January 22 2012 03:41. Posts 827 PM Profile Blog Quote # The feeling I get from the French jokes/hate is mostly to do with the people and the history with the two World Wars. There is, in my opinion, a general feeling throughout American Society that we had to enter WW1 and WW2 because France couldn't take care of itself and we had to save them. A lot of Americans characterize French people as ungrateful because it seems like the French haven't done anything to repay us for our intervention.
Before saying something, you better check if it's right. the USA entered World War 1 only because its ships got sank by the german submarines and World War 2 because of Pearl Harbor.
Half truths
US entered WW1 because of 2 reasons (not one as stated above): 1) Unrestricted Submarine warfare (not just the sinking of the RMS Lusitania) 2) Zimmerman Telegram
Because of Pearl Harbor US entered the Pacific War not the European Front. They only entered WW2 because of German's declaration of war against them on Dec. 11th.
Nitpicking? Yes, but truth is truth is truth.
Truth changes though, as the winner writes history in it's glory..
Here in Canada we despise the French. For good reason. They force their language and culture down our throats like no other. French is required in MANY schools for no good reason, everything is in French for no good reason. They are so forceful about Canada having French as a second language, when less people are French than many other nationalities. They are no where close to being the second most populous people in the country. Yeah I get the French helped found the country, but a good number of them also want to separate, and they would have if it wasn't for their debt with Alberta. They force their culture on the rest of us, but don't give two shits about our culture. In Quebec they actually have laws about how big English on signs can be. There was a recent outcry from Montreal because the new head Coach of the Montreal team isn't French. The thing is only the French would cause an uproar over something like that.
Why does every France thread turn into a thread about war?
The funny thing is Canada has it's own dialects when it comes to French, so while they might be trying to cram it down your throat it's under their model of the language. Not that of France's.
Typical thread where mostly the people with more "extreme" (in this case, who actually do have a bias") views talk, creating a distorted picture of reality. I don't think I know anybody who comes even remotely close to disliking France. And the same goes for any resentments against the Dutch- no idea where that's supposed to come from. Admittedly I live in the eastern part of Germany, so our direct Neighbours (and I assume that those prejudices exist on the "my neighbour smells bad and mows his lawn during my afternoon nap" basis) are Poland and the Czech Republic but we don't have any bias against them either. Oh yeah- polish people steal all our cars. *rolleyes*
I had french in school it's a beautiful language. Noone forced us, we could have chosen other languages or just remain with 1 foreign language, but many of us wanted to learn French. I just wish the French would simply accept that English is the world language and not make such a big fuzz about speaking their own vernacular.
Silly jokes are made about all countries and don't mean a thing.
On January 22 2012 04:32 Rebornlife wrote: Here in Canada we despise the French. For good reason. They force their language and culture down our throats like no other. French is required in MANY schools for no good reason, everything is in French for no good reason. They are so forceful about Canada having French as a second language, when less people are French than many other nationalities. They are no where close to being the second most populous people in the country. Yeah I get the French helped found the country, but a good number of them also want to separate, and they would have if it wasn't for their debt with Alberta. They force their culture on the rest of us, but don't give two shits about our culture. In Quebec they actually have laws about how big English on signs can be. There was a recent outcry from Montreal because the new head Coach of the Montreal team isn't French. The thing is only the French would cause an uproar over something like that.
What the fuck ? Well I'm glad to learn we still have colonies, have to notify my government brb.
On January 21 2012 23:10 Kukaracha wrote: Okay, so here's my "manly history" moment.
French are not cowards, in fact France has one of the most violent histories in the world, waging war after war against every neighbour, and even against most of Europe during Napoleonic times. It is utterly false to say that the french have a history of losing or retreating. In medieval times the english court spoke french as the ruling dynasty was Norman; the Frank kingdom was one of the most powerful at the time; and so was the French kingdom during the Renaissance, and during the Lumières, too. French patriots ousted all foreign troops when a coalition tried to restore the French royalty, while severely outnumbered. Historians have given France the nickname of the "European China", because of its huge population during medieval times. Even the 100-year war wasn't a conflict between France and England, but mostly between two dynasties, and the side of the Valois (France) was vastly outnumbered by the attacks of Burgandy, Brittany, Flanders and Portugal.
But the French army was humiliated during WW2, and even before that in 1870, and the peaceful statu quo carved this in stone. This is very bad for national pride, you know?
I always find it incredibly frustrating when people push forward the BS stereotype that the French are cowards and always lose. The French have probably had just as much conflict as any other European region, and I can only remember two wars that the French actually lost (Franco-Prussian and Napoleon's reign ended in defeat, but hell that doesn't even count as a loss). Not only that, France came up with the greatest military general in earth's history and the largest mainland European empire in the world's history (Napoleon the Great).
Actually having a bloody history is something negative in terms of manliness. Yeah I know that sounds like it doesn't make sense, but see it this way. Throughout history there have been badasses who nobody dared to fuck with, like the spartans in their hardcore period, although technically they've been constantly in war since they declared war every year on their slaves(yep). Or the Prussians, after the Soldier king modernized their army. That people wage wars on you actually just means that their leaders are idiots (French-Prussian-War) or that they think that they could win against you.
PS: Napoleon as the greatest military genius of the world?lol Oh and he was Italian(Corsica) and only rose so high because he was discriminated for being small and speaking with a weird accent as a child.
Napoleon wasn't only a military leader. He built an empire and a constitution out of nowhere, remember that.
Now, I find it pretty odd to be considered manly because you live in the middle of the ocean and no one can be bothered to attack you. Take Switzerland, for example. Are they badasses? No, they juste have a very difficult terrain, and there was very little to gain in conquering their lands. Thus no attacks.
Spartans were not peaceful, they attacked people and were attacked all the time, how do you think they got the army they had during the war of Peloponesia? Prussians were also involved in countless wars, I don't see what's manly about them neither. Being a smaller country, they did play a minor role in European politics, true.
The reason France, England, Spain, Portugual and the Italian cities were always at war was because they were the ones who decided the fate of the continent. And don't forget that there were small encounters every year or so, with many small actors siding with one side or the other (the German princes, small kingdoms, or city-states).
But the bottom line is that there is no manliness in such wars, since most of them did not concern the people (except when they were being murdered, raped and robbed regularly like Lorraine in 1600), not even "nations" but mostly cousins trying to kill each other over a valuable piece of land.
I said that wars were usually considered manly, not that they are And I said that if you're hard enough that nobody fucks with you, that's manly not that if nobody wages wars on you you're manly. And prussia had way less wars than England and France for example... And I never said that Spartans were peacefull, I even mentioned that they were constantly in a war, I just said that people didn't fuck with them AND I talked about prussia after the Soldier King who modernized the Prussian Army and made it the best of the continent, which was btw the same army and the same militarism which made Prussia the mightiest power in europe and made it possible to unify Germany.
So... yeah learn to read -.-
EDIT: Oh and I know about the Code Napoleon and his other accomplishments and still think he's overrated
Prussia did have less wars than England or France, but this is because it was a minor country. Smaller territories would hop on conflicts generated by greater power, but didn't have the means to wage war by themselves. They'd face the danger of being absorbed every time this was the case.
And yes, Sparta has been "fucked with" quite a lot, from the Delos alliance to Thebes, and their neighbours before their dominance was established during the early 7th century B.C. This isn't 300. Bad example I guess.
The Prussian army is a bad example too. While it was a very disciplined and well-trained one, it aligned no more than 80 000, and is contemporaneous to Louis XIV's army which could go up to 400 000 men out of a population of 20 million people (most populated country of Europe, including Russia), and also had the reputation to be the most technologically advanced, the most experienced and the most effective army at that time.
Now to make things clear, Prussia was not a challenge before 1870. The prussian army was obliterated by Napoleon in Iéna, and needed to ally England to pull off Waterloo after Napoleon's army died in the Russian winter. Even after 1817, wether Germany (which is not Prussia by the way) was the most powerful European country or not is debatable; I'd personally consider the UK as the most powerful empire at the time, with a strong control overseas and a foot in every conflict. Now Germany had the most powerful empire from 1940 to 1945, it's true, but I'm not sure it's something to be proud of...
Your point could stand if you had chosen other examples, such as Attila's horde, who actually forced fleeing barbarians into the Roman Empire.
Typical thread where mostly the people with more "extreme" (in this case, who actually do have a bias") views talk, creating a distorted picture of reality. I don't think I know anybody who comes even remotely close to disliking France. And the same goes for any resentments against the Dutch- no idea where that's supposed to come from. Admittedly I live in the eastern part of Germany, so our direct Neighbours (and I assume that those prejudices exist on the "my neighbour smells bad and mows his lawn during my afternoon nap" basis) are Poland and the Czech Republic but we don't have any bias against them either. Oh yeah- polish people steal all our cars. *rolleyes*
I had french in school it's a beautiful language. Noone forced us, we could have chosen other languages or just remain with 1 foreign language, but many of us wanted to learn French. I just wish the French would simply accept that English is the world language and not make such a big fuzz about speaking their own vernacular.
Silly jokes are made about all countries and don't mean a thing.
Yeah I think that's an important thing to realize. All of Scandinavia pretty much hate Sweden afaik, and apparently they don't even serve Swedes in some bars in Denmark. There's rivalry everywhere. It keeps things interesting
On January 21 2012 21:37 Al Bundy wrote: I am french. Sometimes I think that people are right to bash us. I'm going to generalize a bit here, but it's undeniable that some of us are chauvinistic, pretentious, uneducated assholes. Not to mention we can't behave when abroad, and that's really unfortunate because everytime I go abroad, I think man our reputation definitely precedes us. I'm kind of tired having to pay for my fellow Frenchmen's incongruous behavior.
Quebec is a joke amongst Canadians. They want so badly to be French, but even the French dislike them.
Where does this idea come from? Absolutely everyone I know in my family or friends love people from Québec. We occasionally joke about their accent but it's affectionate teasing. Kind of like we have a ton of jokes about french-speaking belgians but we really like them too.
Seriously if I had to make a top 3 of the people that French people like the most in average, I'd say (in no particular order) Belgians, Germans and Quebecers.
On January 21 2012 21:33 CeroFail wrote: They're too nationalistic, arrogant and selfish. As such, people hate them and this can be seen by how apparently, French people are the most unpopular tourists.
User was warned for this post
If that was the reason as to why americans dislike french, that would be EXTREMELY ironic
I've visited France before, with a bunch of other people. I'm from Hawaii, and my friends were from different parts of the U.S. A lot of people in Paris were rude to us when it became apparent that we were from the U.S., although when I told them I was from Hawaii they seemed to like me a lot more
A group of girls also tried to send us to a gay club, but thankfully we met this really cool restaurant owner that told us what it really was and steered us in the right direction
EPT
