The new year eve has always been the right time to sum up all major events of the year. Natus Vincere is not an exception and by analyzing the current status of our gaming squads we have decided to disband our StarCraft 2 squad. The major factor that led to this decision was lack of satisfying results by team players.
We thank to all our players that have been representing the organization during this year. We appreciate their contribution to the team and wish them sincere good luck. Most probably we will come back to StarCraft 2 title in the end of 2012 but will be still following the scene with Denis “Hireling” Shubovsky still representing Na`Vi.SC2 as our official broadcaster for this e-Sports discipline. Below you can read the statements by our CEO and teamcoach.
So is 13abyknight going back to Dota 2? Been hearing that he's been standing in for a team. But he's been doing decent in SC2 and has said that he's more of a solo player. Anyone have any news on this?
On December 30 2011 22:35 S_SienZ wrote: So is 13abyknight going back to Dota 2? Been hearing that he's been standing in for a team. But he's been doing decent in SC2 and has said that he's more of a solo player. Anyone have any news on this?
I've heard rumours that he's aiming for dota2. He is a soloplayer so he'll prolly go back to solo mid with a heavy carry, lol.
Tbh, it felt like they didn't really put as much into the scene as they could. You can't sign players who have yet to achieve anything on the cheap and then say you're disbanding because of the lack of results. They need time T_T. Like over a year not a few months... If you want instant results, you have to sign somebody who can deliver them immediately. That means you've got to pay a bit more but the RoI is much higher, you become more prestigious, you make more money to spend on whatever etc etc.. They didn't even make one marquee signing to get everybody talking about Na`Vi. They just basically sat in the background and dwindled away into nothingness.
I just see it as a shame because they could have been a big name in this scene like they are in CS and dota2 but they never got their hands dirty.
Just look at the likes of mouz + EG and what they've achieved because they've invested and got the right players.
On December 30 2011 22:56 TheHova wrote: Tbh, it felt like they didn't really put as much into the scene as they could. You can't sign players who have yet to achieve anything on the cheap and then say you're disbanding because of the lack of results. They need time T_T. Like over a year not a few months... If you want instant results, you have to sign somebody who can deliver them immediately. That means you've got to pay a bit more but the RoI is much higher, you become more prestigious, you make more money to spend on whatever etc etc.. They didn't even make one marquee signing to get everybody talking about Na`Vi. They just basically sat in the background and dwindled away into nothingness.
I just see it as a shame because they could have been a big name in this scene like they are in CS and dota2 but they never got their hands dirty.
Just look at the likes of mouz + EG and what they've achieved because they've invested and got the right players.
I never even realized that they had a SC2 team. xD
No matter what their achievements are, they would always have been way way overshadowed by their Dota 2 lineup, which is basically the equivalent of top koreans put together if you were to translate it to SC2 terms.
So they'd have to have MVP/Nestea/Idra/Naniwa/HuK caliber players, and at least enough of them in the lineup to be able to play team leagues.
Unfortunately all players of that caliber are already on sponsored team.
It's a good business decision. They should concentrate on something they are already amazing at (still an understatement), - DOTA.
Na'vi needed to invest in SC2 more if they wanted to have a competitive SC2 squad with results... Shame they didn't really put that much into SC2, could've been the next Evil Geniuses with all the money they won from Dota.
But its great for their business that they "get rid of their fat" and focus more on their strong suit - all the best for Na'Vi
Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't this the team that was offering tryouts based on ladder ranking? It's kinda tough to take a team like that seriously imo.
On December 30 2011 23:41 Fishriot wrote: Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't this the team that was offering tryouts based on ladder ranking? It's kinda tough to take a team like that seriously imo.
Yeah they didn't seem to understand much about how the SC2 scene works.
Proof that you can't simply throw money around and expect sponsors. That is no business model. Sad day for eSports, only because a fuckload of money walked out the door, and no other reason.
Always sad to see a team break up, although it seems Na'Vi didn't really seem to put much effort in to SC2.
In fact, the only information I ever heard about them and SC2 was probably a single thread from a long time ago, where a lot of smug people *knew* they were the "up and coming" SC2 team, and that all the major pro-gamer teams should watch out for these guys. Apparently not >.> Looks like they'll stick to other things.
They came into SC2 too late, and I think they originally thought they would be able to lure away top Ukranian talent from their respective teams (DIMAGA, Strelok, White-Ra), but weren't able to. Setting their sets on the end of 2012 when contracts will be up once again seems like a good decision for them.
I'm not going back to DotA 2, I'm currently looking for a good team to join. I am practicing very hard now, quit school 1 month ago and I believe 2012 will be a good year for me, in SC2.
On December 31 2011 01:28 The_13abyKnight wrote: I'm not going back to DotA 2, I'm currently looking for a good team to join. I am practicing very hard now, quit school 1 month ago and I believe 2012 will be a good year for me, in SC2.
nice to hear, big fan of yours and enjoy watching your stream even i dont play protoss
On December 30 2011 23:21 thecoupe wrote: Not surprising. The players they had weren't great and Na'Vi didn't really seem too ambitious about it.
I think they were ambitious. They just didn't have the money to get into the scene at the time they tried. I think NaVi wants som eastern european players and Empire pretty much is the team there. So they either had to get the players from Empire or "buy" Empire. That didn't succeed and hence they didn't get any known players. Their "homegrown" players also didn't make a big impact, so they could't fufill what the team wanted. Hence they were ambitous, but didn't have the money to get where they wanted, hence shutting down and waiting until the next time, big players has to negotiate contracts...
I do remember them picking up SC2 but I can't remember anyone who was on their team... So yeah no huge surprise that they dissbanded... then again maybe they were a bit to quick. But oh well, Best of luck to you anyway.
Real shame, but inevitable; as said, navi didn't really put their hearts behind their SC2 team.
Hope l3abyknight - god of dota - finds another team though, that would be awesome, the man deserves it. Would be twice as awesome if he's the new EG player haha :D
And just seen him beat up TLO on TLO's stream, he's getting damn good !! :DDD
On December 31 2011 01:28 The_13abyKnight wrote: I'm not going back to DotA 2, I'm currently looking for a good team to join. I am practicing very hard now, quit school 1 month ago and I believe 2012 will be a good year for me, in SC2.
On December 30 2011 22:32 Klonere wrote: I guess all the best Ukrainian players are on imbaFXO or Empire :-/
Sad to see such a legend of ESPORTS pull out of SC2, even if only temporarily.
Legend? No just a good cs team that was made a few years ago SK, 3D, fnatic I'd give the legendary tag to.
You do not follow CS.
Na'Vi is the Cinderella story of esports, coming from a country that wasn't all that known in CS to then becoming the #1 team in the world and putting Ukraine on the map. In 2010 they set the record for the most prize money earned in a year for a CS team and it wasn't beaten in 2011, they weren't able to recreate 2010's success, but they haven't fallen either. I saw an interview with element who played for 2003 SK.Swe and he said Na'Vi were the best team of all time.
Also the only top Dota team in the world that isn't Asian, they made 1,000,000 in 1 single day. That means each player in the last year has earned more than the highest achieving SC2 player MVP. So yes it's fair to say they are a legendary org.
It wouldn't surprise me to see them put together an all-star roster in the next few months though, after their recruitment thread a few months back, after all in the announcement it says they were removed for the lack of results, nothing to do with the game or the scene, just in the individual players.
I'm sorry to hear this as well, and I think maybe the team's exposure may not what it could have been, as in my case, this is the first that I've ever heard of this team.
But there is something significant here, and that's the DOTA2 aspect. In a small way I'm beginning to feel that DOTA-style games are really taking off...this is just my opinion as I feel that SC2 completely overshadows any dota game in terms of complexity but this is a sign of how the "better" game isn't necessarily the one which makes $$$...
On December 30 2011 22:32 Klonere wrote: I guess all the best Ukrainian players are on imbaFXO or Empire :-/
Sad to see such a legend of ESPORTS pull out of SC2, even if only temporarily.
Legend? No just a good cs team that was made a few years ago SK, 3D, fnatic I'd give the legendary tag to.
You do not follow CS.
Na'Vi is the Cinderella story of esports, coming from a country that wasn't all that known in CS to then becoming the #1 team in the world and putting Ukraine on the map. In 2010 they set the record for the most prize money earned in a year for a CS team and it wasn't beaten in 2011, they weren't able to recreate 2010's success, but they haven't fallen either. I saw an interview with element who played for 2003 SK.Swe and he said Na'Vi were the best team of all time.
Also the only top Dota team in the world that isn't Asian, they made 1,000,000 in 1 single day. That means each player in the last year has earned more than the highest achieving SC2 player MVP. So yes it's fair to say they are a legendary org.
It wouldn't surprise me to see them put together an all-star roster in the next few months though, after their recruitment thread a few months back, after all in the announcement it says they were removed for the lack of results, nothing to do with the game or the scene, just in the individual players.
Actually I played top tier 1.6 and source before in late quit in 2010, And the top ukr teams were always good and getting good finishes in tournaments before NaVi, so to say it put them on map is ignorant yes they're an amazing CS team their dominance was very impressive but when I think of an legendary orgas SK/mTw/fnatic are the only ones I would consider in europe.
as for 10years, (less for fnatic) they've dominated different games with teams and been consistently at the top, navi formed what very late 2009 early 2010? and as for their dota team winning 1,000,000 single day? yes it's nice i'm not taking anything away from them but it's just 1 tournament I don't follow dota so I won't pretend to know anything about but it's early days in that game, and it's still 1 tourny regardless of prize money. I wouldn't call stephano a legendary SC2 player even though he's won more tournys, same as I wouldn't call man city a legendary football club even though they're most likely the best team in the premiership right now, all my point was they're a good CS team one of the best however they're not as an orga on the same level as an SK, mTw.
also "Also the only top Dota team in the world that isn't Asian, they made 1,000,000 in 1 single day. That means each player in the last year has earned more than the highest achieving SC2 player MVP. So yes it's fair to say they are a legendary org."
The stupidity of this comment annoys me, It doesn't actually matter how much they make in their team game to mvp in a year so I won't even go there, How does winning a PR tourny in a new game make your orga legendary? when na'vi dominate and stay up their at the top of scene like other orgas, until 2020 then they'll be legendary.
Jeez why is the term good considered bad? Ok navi are holy fuck amazing at CS, so I don't confuse you I didn't say they wasn't one of the most dominating CS teams. I don't think they're the best of all time, as they aren't continuing their domination from 2010. However I do think they're one of the top3 all time great teams,and I think it's hard to actually decide on nr1 because it's like pele vs messi the game and skill level was different.
Having the considered best 1.6 team for 8-10months doesn't IMO make your orga legendary that's it, sigh fucking forums.
This is why big teams with good budgets who know nothing about SC2 need to actually hire a real talent scout full time instead of just relying on "free advice".
On December 31 2011 04:54 Diamond wrote: This is why big teams with good budgets who know nothing about SC2 need to actually hire a real talent scout full time instead of just relying on "free advice".
This. I feel like LG suffered similar issues, nice budget, okay team. No management.
On December 31 2011 04:54 Diamond wrote: This is why big teams with good budgets who know nothing about SC2 need to actually hire a real talent scout full time instead of just relying on "free advice".
This. I feel like LG suffered similar issues, nice budget, okay team. No management.
LG, SK, coL for the longest time, etc. All them want their advice on player pickups for "free" because "we have 4 other guys giving us picks for free".
On December 31 2011 05:03 Torte de Lini wrote: Some of us work for free anyways D:<
Like I say, you get what you pay for. Talent scouting is hard and very few people just "get it" (CatZ is a GREAT example of someone that does). It's not really something you can learn, and the people that get it aren't going to give it out for free.
Free advice is why coL was not even relevant in SC2 for the better part of the year, free advice is why the great SK is nothing more then a sponsor in SC2, free advice is not good. The best of the best are going to want to get paid and until they do the teams will suffer for their cheapness.
I feel like you're quoting Moneyball here. In any case, I inquired to SK whether they'd widen their team and they said: "It has to make sense". The direction most foreign team organizations are going is mainly Koreans anyways. So, whether or not your rationale is the way to go, most are going for shortcuts anyways and what they sense would get their organization on the mainstage and exposure. You can scout for up and coming talent or you can pave a big money road and just buy or "partner" up with Korean teams/players.
On December 31 2011 05:12 Torte de Lini wrote: (thank you)
I feel like you're quoting Moneyball here. In any case, I inquired to SK whether they'd widen their team and they said: "It has to make sense". The direction most foreign team organizations are going is mainly Koreans anyways. So, whether or not your rationale is the way to go, most are going for shortcuts anyways and what they sense would get their organization on the mainstage and exposure. You can scout for up and coming talent or you can pave a big money road and just buy or "partner" up with Korean teams/players.
I have never seen Moneyball.
I also contacted SK a long time ago about the same thing and they informed me "they don't pay for talent scouting" because "We have people that do that for free". Seems to have worked out well for them.........
Also there is A LOT of up and coming talent even in the Korean scene, but unless a person knows how to spot it correct they won't notice until it's too late.
There is a reason every major sport ever has dedicated talent scouts, it's not like something that has never happened before. Teams that continue to ignore that aspect are the ones that will be relegated to positions like SK.
On December 31 2011 04:54 Diamond wrote: This is why big teams with good budgets who know nothing about SC2 need to actually hire a real talent scout full time instead of just relying on "free advice".
This. I feel like LG suffered similar issues, nice budget, okay team. No management.
On December 31 2011 05:37 Torte de Lini wrote: Lazarus Gaming
I thought they shut down because the kid with the money who owned the team basically got bored and decided to disband the team and go back to software development (or whatever it was he did to make money)
On December 31 2011 05:37 Torte de Lini wrote: Lazarus Gaming
I thought they shut down because the kid with the money who owned the team basically got bored and decided to disband the team and go back to software development (or whatever it was he did to make money)
Well that was one reason the second one was the team was not really going anywhere or winning anything. There was no ROI, and at the point LG was just a pure money dump. If the team had been fincially viable I bet he might have got a dedicated manager for it.
I remember them signing some players but I can't remember any of those players doing much of anything and I don't think I saw them in any team tournaments. This really isn't that surprising, but it sucks for all the people who were on their team.
so long as NaVi has dendi, I'll be a fan. Not every team needs to be involved in SC2, sucks because it grows this game but NaVi are killers in eSports so I'm fine with them staying where they are.
too many teams just don't hire decent management and pay them well, because they try to devote their ressources to their players. I can't say that I am particularly sad when a team disbands (I wouldn't say disband for NaVi, but rather withdraw), because I feel that it's the same for a company. If a company doesn't run well, and you don't have a plan how to fix that, you might aswell let it go bankrupt.
On December 31 2011 07:18 Snorkle wrote: Didnt reallyhave high hopes for them after this thread. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=268614 good luck in the future, hope they get their act together and take sc2 seriously if they decide to reenter the scene.
And yeah, I totally had the same feeling. I felt like that there was a major lack of motivation.
I guess that they will really put some serious money up front next year, grabbing some top notch players. I would kill to see NaVi MMA! Yeah, I know its not gonna happen.
On December 31 2011 01:28 The_13abyKnight wrote: I'm not going back to DotA 2, I'm currently looking for a good team to join. I am practicing very hard now, quit school 1 month ago and I believe 2012 will be a good year for me, in SC2.
That's a little sad to hear ):, but good luck in SC2, been a big fan of you for a long time! :D
all the good players on a team already, and they were trying to find local players, where if it's not KR or NA, it is hard to find 'local' players with good skills. They should've aimed for 'talents' or at least from other regions too for pick ups as what EG and TL did if first place is what they really wanted.
On January 04 2012 20:02 tQWannaBe wrote: all the good players on a team already, and they were trying to find local players, where if it's not KR or NA, it is hard to find 'local' players with good skills. They should've aimed for 'talents' or at least from other regions too for pick ups as what EG and TL did if first place is what they really wanted.
Or just pick up some of the relatively unknown Russian ladderheroes on the EU ladder. They could easily make a team as strong as Mouz or EG if they give good support to an all Russian/Ukrainian team.
On January 04 2012 20:02 tQWannaBe wrote: all the good players on a team already, and they were trying to find local players, where if it's not KR or NA, it is hard to find 'local' players with good skills. They should've aimed for 'talents' or at least from other regions too for pick ups as what EG and TL did if first place is what they really wanted.
Or just pick up some of the relatively unknown Russian ladderheroes on the EU ladder. They could easily make a team as strong as Mouz or EG if they give good support to an all Russian/Ukrainian team.
I think that's what they did at the start. IF you look at the GM ladder, there were a few Na'Vi names floating around.
Shame though. I was looking forward to what Na'Vi could find in the Eastern European scene. Ah well, I always got Dendi to watch :D
On December 31 2011 05:03 Torte de Lini wrote: Some of us work for free anyways D:<
Like I say, you get what you pay for. Talent scouting is hard and very few people just "get it" (CatZ is a GREAT example of someone that does). It's not really something you can learn, and the people that get it aren't going to give it out for free.
Free advice is why coL was not even relevant in SC2 for the better part of the year, free advice is why the great SK is nothing more then a sponsor in SC2, free advice is not good. The best of the best are going to want to get paid and until they do the teams will suffer for their cheapness.
On December 31 2011 05:03 Torte de Lini wrote: Some of us work for free anyways D:<
Like I say, you get what you pay for. Talent scouting is hard and very few people just "get it" (CatZ is a GREAT example of someone that does). It's not really something you can learn, and the people that get it aren't going to give it out for free.
Free advice is why coL was not even relevant in SC2 for the better part of the year, free advice is why the great SK is nothing more then a sponsor in SC2, free advice is not good. The best of the best are going to want to get paid and until they do the teams will suffer for their cheapness.
CatZ "got what"?
CatZ is awesome. He just loses every games that goes beyond 50 supply.
On December 31 2011 05:03 Torte de Lini wrote: Some of us work for free anyways D:<
Like I say, you get what you pay for. Talent scouting is hard and very few people just "get it" (CatZ is a GREAT example of someone that does). It's not really something you can learn, and the people that get it aren't going to give it out for free.
Free advice is why coL was not even relevant in SC2 for the better part of the year, free advice is why the great SK is nothing more then a sponsor in SC2, free advice is not good. The best of the best are going to want to get paid and until they do the teams will suffer for their cheapness.
CatZ "got what"?
Well he found Destiny didn't he? That was a pretty big recruitment for Root back in the day.
On December 31 2011 01:28 BabyKnight wrote: I'm not going back to DotA 2, I'm currently looking for a good team to join. I am practicing very hard now, quit school 1 month ago and I believe 2012 will be a good year for me, in SC2.
Now that you're back in DotA, what do you think your chances are for Ti5? Miracle run through the wildcard?
On January 04 2012 20:02 tQWannaBe wrote: all the good players on a team already, and they were trying to find local players, where if it's not KR or NA, it is hard to find 'local' players with good skills. They should've aimed for 'talents' or at least from other regions too for pick ups as what EG and TL did if first place is what they really wanted.
Or just pick up some of the relatively unknown Russian ladderheroes on the EU ladder. They could easily make a team as strong as Mouz or EG if they give good support to an all Russian/Ukrainian team.
EPT
SK, 3D, fnatic I'd give the legendary tag to.
