• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:39
CET 09:39
KST 17:39
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy7ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289
Community News
Weekly Cups (March 16-22): herO doubles, Cure surprises3Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool48Weekly Cups (March 9-15): herO, Clem, ByuN win42026 KungFu Cup Announcement6BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled12
StarCraft 2
General
https://www.facebook.com/Silen.Sense.Calm.Ears.Ire What mix of new & old maps do you want in the next ladder pool? (SC2) Potential Updates Coming to the SC2 CN Server Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April StarCraft Evolution League (SC Evo Biweekly) WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament World University TeamLeague (500$+) | Signups Open
Strategy
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Frigid Storage Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026]
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone Mutation # 517 Distant Threat Mutation # 516 Specter of Death
Brood War
General
KK Platform will provide 1 million CNY Recent recommended BW games ASL21 General Discussion Gypsy to Korea RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2026 Changsha Offline Cup [ASL21] Ro24 Group B [ASL21] Ro24 Group A
Strategy
What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Darkest Dungeon General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Which is better SEO or PPC? [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Cricket [SPORT] Formula 1 Discussion Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread General nutrition recommendations
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Money Laundering In Video Ga…
TrAiDoS
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
FS++
Kraekkling
Shocked by a laser…
Spydermine0240
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4396 users

Does 4v4 take more skill than 1v1?

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All
jtp118
Profile Joined November 2010
United States137 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-22 21:00:48
December 22 2011 20:10 GMT
#1




edit: The thread title should be "Could 4v4..." not "Does 4v4..."

I played BW years ago (2000-01) but recently became interested in competitive SC2 through MLG --- I play Halo and have followed MLG since 2007 --- and there's something I've wondered about for a while.

In Halo, there's a clear differentiation between 1v1 skill and 4v4 skill; some of the players who were best at FFA or 1v1 were not always great at 4v4. In general, I would say that most of the Halo community agreed that being good at 4v4 required more skill, because there are more factors to master. Just as SC2 takes more skill than Checkers because better players have more 'ways' to be better in SC2 (a huge skill gap for build orders, macro, micro, unit control, decision-making ...), 4v4 takes more skill than 1v1, because you have to take into account so many other teamwork-related factors (communication, more complex map positioning, etc.).

Obviously BW and SC2 have had occasional 2v2 leagues, but the community will often refer to this as taking a 'different' sort of skill, but not necessarily 'more' skill. But am I missing something in thinking that a 4v4 in SC2 would take more individual skill AND teamwork-related skill than a 1v1?

A match where IdrA, InControl, Machine, and DeMuslim played against HerO, Ret, Jinro, and TLO would require insane amounts of team strategizing/communication, coordinating pushes, coordinating build orders (maybe two players for each team would go heavy gas while the others didn't, etc.), coordinating units between races (figuring out which P units go well with Z units against an opposing team of T players, etc.); all of the metagame stuff from 1v1 would be even more insanely complex in 4v4, and would require even more skill, if developed.

Some might say that SC2 players don't have time to get good at both, they have to choose 1v1 or 4v4. But in Halo (well, only in Halo 2, when MLG had FFA/1v1 tournaments), a player had to be good at both; you need to learn a whole new set of strategies/skills for 4v4, and play in an FFA/1v1 and 4v4 tournament on the same weekend (usually the FFA/1v1 was on Friday). Obviously an FPS shooter has a lower skill ceiling than SC2, but why couldn't players do this for SC2?

Anyway, obviously this will never happen, lol ... but I'm just curious if I'm missing something. Would 4v4s in SC2 take more skill, or not? Like if maps were bigger, etc?




edit: ... so it turns out that SC2 is balanced around 1v1 and is not meant to be played seriously in 4v4. Is the problem that it's impossible to balance in 4v4? i.e., there are too many factors to control, and it's impossible to avoid imbalance? Or could there be a way to fix 4v4 (larger maps? ...) to make it more balanced? In a perfect world, if 4v4 could be balanced as equally as 1v1, would people consider this to require more skill?


zyglrox
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1168 Posts
December 22 2011 20:11 GMT
#2
must be troll

User was warned for this post
champagne for my real friends, and real pain for my sham friends.
jtp118
Profile Joined November 2010
United States137 Posts
December 22 2011 20:12 GMT
#3
uh oh lol, i'm not trolling ... does the community have a settled opinion on this that i'm not aware of?
TheSwamp
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1497 Posts
December 22 2011 20:13 GMT
#4
LOL
MLG: How is your Protoss? Idra: I make Blink Stalkers, so really, really good.
ishyishy
Profile Joined February 2011
United States826 Posts
December 22 2011 20:13 GMT
#5
What is the purpose of this thread? This has to be another troll thread. Have you watched the 2v2 tournaments? You rarely see either team make a second base. Try watching some pro team games before you go theorizing about this nonsense.
Zazzles
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Slovakia153 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-22 20:14:15
December 22 2011 20:13 GMT
#6
4v4 is just for fun and certainly 1v1 takes a lot more skill than 4v4
"Fortune favors the bold"
happyness
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2400 Posts
December 22 2011 20:14 GMT
#7
o_O

Uh, have you tried playing 4v4's before? They are way too volatile and luck based. SC2 was designed to be a 1v1 game, the developers have said this themselves
Jayjay54
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany2296 Posts
December 22 2011 20:14 GMT
#8
are we really discussing this?

the discussion should be: which is more fun?
Things are laid back in Unidenland. And may the road ahead be lid with dreams and tomorrows. Which are lid with dreams. Also.
Moochlol
Profile Joined August 2010
United States456 Posts
December 22 2011 20:15 GMT
#9
No, there are certain combinations of units that just become to powerful to NOT use them, I'm pretty sure the meta game would would not be as full, and result in the same powerful rushes over and over.

Also, you must be new =p.
blaaaaaarghhhhh
Moosy
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada396 Posts
December 22 2011 20:15 GMT
#10
The 1v1 metagame is infinitely more developed. As such it is far more skill-requiring than 4v4. The opposite is true in fps games such as halo and cod.
Ahrun
Profile Joined July 2011
United States100 Posts
December 22 2011 20:16 GMT
#11
Uh, if the game was balanced around 4v4 then sure it could, but right now you can just do a cheesy early build or an imbalanced unit combo collosus, marine, infestor, or something like that and just win. It works in halo cause everyone can get the same weapons, same vehicles etc, not in sc2. No it does not atm.
Hit them, if they don't die hit em again and again and again. - Zerg Swarm training school
Whole
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States6046 Posts
December 22 2011 20:16 GMT
#12
the game isn't balanced at 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4...so it doesn't take more skill. it would come down to who can abuse the most imbalances
Empyrean
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
17053 Posts
December 22 2011 20:16 GMT
#13
As it turns out, Starcraft isn't Halo.
Moderator
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5219 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-22 20:18:20
December 22 2011 20:17 GMT
#14
In general for SC2, aggression is exponentially more powerful in team games than 1vs1, and this "waters" the game down, reducing the number of viable strategies. It becomes worse as you move from 2vs2 to 3vs3 or 4vs4.
KeksX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany3634 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-22 20:18:13
December 22 2011 20:17 GMT
#15
On December 23 2011 05:12 jtp118 wrote:
uh oh lol, i'm not trolling ... does the community have a settled opinion on this that i'm not aware of?

To put it in a nutshell.
Starcraft 2 is balanced around 1v1 and 4v4 is just goofing around and nowhere near a competetive level.
Hawk2
Profile Joined August 2010
United States229 Posts
December 22 2011 20:19 GMT
#16
4vs4 lacks any flow to the game that 1vs1 has. team games are in general about getting map control, then retaining map control so your team may force a 4vs1 fight at any point in time.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45385 Posts
December 22 2011 20:19 GMT
#17
Team match-ups aren't balanced, require far less skill, are almost never played professionally, and have far fewer tournaments.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Gladiator6
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden7024 Posts
December 22 2011 20:19 GMT
#18
Isn't some matchups in 4vs4 insanely imbalanced?
Flying, sOs, free, Light, Soulkey & ZerO
Mrvoodoochild1
Profile Joined June 2011
United States1439 Posts
December 22 2011 20:19 GMT
#19
Troll? Multiplayer is just a huge cheesefest. It is very rare that anyone puts down an expansion. 1v1 will always be the more skillful game bceause there is no one else to cover up your flaws.
"let your freak flag fly"
jemag
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada98 Posts
December 22 2011 20:19 GMT
#20
Starcraft 2 is created and balanced around 1vs1, it would not even make sense to have high level 4vs4
1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 21m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 4393
PianO 1716
Killer 295
Soma 292
sSak 170
Dewaltoss 135
Leta 98
scan(afreeca) 31
sorry 16
Movie 4
Dota 2
XaKoH 731
febbydoto14
League of Legends
JimRising 729
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1335
Other Games
WinterStarcraft539
crisheroes212
Livibee85
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV105
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 44
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 10
• Light_VIP 10
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• HappyZerGling131
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
1h 21m
Cure vs Zoun
herO vs Rogue
Platinum Heroes Events
6h 21m
BSL
11h 21m
RSL Revival
1d 1h
ByuN vs Maru
MaxPax vs TriGGeR
WardiTV Team League
1d 3h
BSL
1d 10h
Replay Cast
1d 15h
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Light vs Calm
Royal vs Mind
Wardi Open
2 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
OSC
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
Rush vs PianO
Flash vs Speed
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
BeSt vs Leta
Queen vs Jaedong
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
WardiTV Winter 2026
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
CSL Elite League 2026
CSL Season 20: Qualifier 1
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
2026 Changsha Offline CUP
RSL Revival: Season 4
Nations Cup 2026
NationLESS Cup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual

Upcoming

CSL Season 20: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.