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Belief in an omnipotent pointless? - Page 8

Forum Index > Closed
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mindspike
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
Canada1902 Posts
November 05 2004 01:16 GMT
#141
site about the rock theory
http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/impossiblerock.html
zerg/human - vancouver, canada
SCFraser
Profile Joined May 2003
Canada1534 Posts
November 05 2004 01:16 GMT
#142
On November 05 2004 10:03 BigBalls wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2004 09:55 SCFraser wrote:
On November 05 2004 01:45 Famouzze wrote:
I wasn't disapproving or anything, just trying to add to the discussion.

here's my personal favorite logical flaw in the idea: can god make a rock so heavy even he can't lift it? either way he's not omnipotent ^_^


Actually i dont think this is a logic flaw. He could do this by eliminating his own omnipotence, obivously thats the only way to limit himself.


I've never seen the rock argument. The one I saw was:

If god is omnipotent, he can create anything, even a being that is more powerful than him. But if he can do that, then he is not all powerful.

However, this too is false. To explain this, let me give you an example. Lets take two sets:

{0,1,2,3,4,....}. The set of positive integers and 0.
{0,2,4,6,8,....}. The set of even positive integers and 0.

The first set is clearly twice as large as the second set. However, it is easy to come up with a 1-1 and onto map from the second map to the first. Take each element of the second set and divide by 2, and we have the first set. How is it possible to have a 1-1 AND onto map from a set to a set that is twice its size?

This is because we are dealing with an infinite case. Since god's powerfulness is infinite, a larger degree of infinity is the same.


right on.
I want something good to die for, to make it beautiful to live.
BigBalls
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States5354 Posts
November 05 2004 01:20 GMT
#143
http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/chem99/chem99338.htm
if you guys could use google and post direct links to the maphacks here it would be greatly appreciated. - Nazgul
BigBalls
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States5354 Posts
November 05 2004 01:21 GMT
#144
Short answer; the motion is completely deterministic, but not predictable
in the everyday, macroscopic sense. The more accurately you try to measure
momentum of the electron in transit, the less you will know about its position.

if you guys could use google and post direct links to the maphacks here it would be greatly appreciated. - Nazgul
BigBalls
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States5354 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-11-05 01:24:52
November 05 2004 01:23 GMT
#145
This old post is unavailable due to an encoding issue. Please contact an admin if you would like this post restored for historical reasons.
if you guys could use google and post direct links to the maphacks here it would be greatly appreciated. - Nazgul
SCFraser
Profile Joined May 2003
Canada1534 Posts
November 05 2004 01:25 GMT
#146
On November 05 2004 10:23 BigBalls wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2004 10:16 mindspike wrote:
site about the rock theory
http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/impossiblerock.html



This statement is false

whats false about it?
the only thing i saw was that maybe their definition of omnipotence was different from that which im used to hearing. But i think theirs is more accurate. Omnipotence is still bound by logic.
I want something good to die for, to make it beautiful to live.
BigBalls
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
United States5354 Posts
November 05 2004 01:27 GMT
#147
Hah, you missed my little joke.

This statement is false is not a proposition.

Suppose it is true. Then it's false. =><=

Suppose its false. Then the statement is true. =><=


Logically impossible. I was just giving my favorite example of a logical impossibility
if you guys could use google and post direct links to the maphacks here it would be greatly appreciated. - Nazgul
FrEaK[S.sIR]
Profile Joined October 2002
2373 Posts
November 05 2004 01:33 GMT
#148
So, I wonder how many high school students' lives we've ruined by bringing about the harsh reality that math is indeed everything
SCFraser
Profile Joined May 2003
Canada1534 Posts
November 05 2004 01:41 GMT
#149
hahaha most mind boggling joke ever?
but why add "is not a proposition"
I want something good to die for, to make it beautiful to live.
FrEaK[S.sIR]
Profile Joined October 2002
2373 Posts
November 05 2004 01:42 GMT
#150
Creating a rock so large god cannot lift it is illogical.

But creating the universe in 7 days is completely logical!

6000 years ago no daut.
FrEaK[S.sIR]
Profile Joined October 2002
2373 Posts
November 05 2004 01:43 GMT
#151
Proposition

A statement that affirms or denies something.

He said it wasn't a proposition because it wasn't a proposition.

You asked why it was false when he never claimed it to be false.
SCFraser
Profile Joined May 2003
Canada1534 Posts
November 05 2004 01:43 GMT
#152
On November 05 2004 05:39 Keanu_Reaver wrote:
we discussed this before on aim, freak. i dont "discuss" religion here, i do as i please when i see a religious thread...whether its goading atheists or religious people into making asses of themselves or pointlessly spamming and picking apart random "facts"

why? because no one here is smart enough, learned enough, and most importantly; reasonable and open minded enough to warrant a fruitful discussion


You must have a pretty high opinion of yourself buddy, considering there are some brilliant minds on this forum.
I want something good to die for, to make it beautiful to live.
FrEaK[S.sIR]
Profile Joined October 2002
2373 Posts
November 05 2004 01:44 GMT
#153
On November 05 2004 10:43 SCFraser wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 05 2004 05:39 Keanu_Reaver wrote:
we discussed this before on aim, freak. i dont "discuss" religion here, i do as i please when i see a religious thread...whether its goading atheists or religious people into making asses of themselves or pointlessly spamming and picking apart random "facts"

why? because no one here is smart enough, learned enough, and most importantly; reasonable and open minded enough to warrant a fruitful discussion


You must have a pretty high opinion of yourself buddy, considering there are some brilliant minds on this forum.


Indeed, he is rather elitist.
SCFraser
Profile Joined May 2003
Canada1534 Posts
Last Edited: 2004-11-05 01:46:21
November 05 2004 01:45 GMT
#154
Sorry im retarded.

next time put " "!!
I want something good to die for, to make it beautiful to live.
FrEaK[S.sIR]
Profile Joined October 2002
2373 Posts
November 05 2004 01:46 GMT
#155
Now, what do you guys think of the concept of God being an observer and not a creator. Perhaps he is not the omnipotent being and the universe is infinite however he forever watches over his peoples. More of a ruler than a holy father

It completely turns modern religious theory on its head.
SCFraser
Profile Joined May 2003
Canada1534 Posts
November 05 2004 01:49 GMT
#156
Just as plausible, but when u say the universe is infinite are you saying that this god-observer exists within that universe?
I want something good to die for, to make it beautiful to live.
FrEaK[S.sIR]
Profile Joined October 2002
2373 Posts
November 05 2004 01:51 GMT
#157
God by abrahamic definition lives in a holy afterlife of some sort.

Most other gods live within the universe already
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28790 Posts
November 05 2004 01:54 GMT
#158
as for that whole 6000 years thing (I do believe a couple of forummembers believe this is the case), I didn't think about this before, but um, don't fucking STARS disprove this? there has been some ridiculous explanation to everything else, so I'm interested in this one.

or do christians not believe we're capable of seeing any stars further away than 6000 lightyears?
Moderator
SCFraser
Profile Joined May 2003
Canada1534 Posts
November 05 2004 01:55 GMT
#159
On November 05 2004 05:57 Keanu_Reaver wrote:
oh, and one of these days when you actually take a class on philosophy, you'll realize that 98% of philosophers and books on philosophy are full of shit, that its necessary for them to be full of shit because of the nature of philosophy in itself. and thats when you'll realize that all this nonsense that they've spewed onto you that you recount in verbatim is just that, nonsense. and that coming up with your own philosophies is even worse.

until then, i'll let you guys toss around your deformed bastard children of philosophy until your arms get tired, and let you stomp all over and insult science all you want...take care!


I've taken three philosophy classes (finished top 5% every time), nobody here is recounting anything verbatim, you dont support your claims and coming up with your own philosophies is the only thing that qualifies someone as a philosopher.
I want something good to die for, to make it beautiful to live.
SCFraser
Profile Joined May 2003
Canada1534 Posts
November 05 2004 02:00 GMT
#160
On November 05 2004 10:54 Liquid`Drone wrote:
as for that whole 6000 years thing (I do believe a couple of forummembers believe this is the case), I didn't think about this before, but um, don't fucking STARS disprove this? there has been some ridiculous explanation to everything else, so I'm interested in this one.

or do christians not believe we're capable of seeing any stars further away than 6000 lightyears?

Sorry havent read the whole thread but im guessing you're saying that ppl claim the universe was created 6000 years ago.

I guess God while creating the earth could create the light that we see as if it it had come from the stars that are over 6000 light years away.

Not that i believe in god, although i did here an interesting argument once for god as a creator but not necessarily all powerful.
I want something good to die for, to make it beautiful to live.
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