As everyone most likely knows by now, PvP is a matchup dictated by the 4 gate. There have been many attempts at countering it, yet because of it's simplicity, it remains the number one opening. Any strategies designed to counter it are much more difficult to pull off correctly, and this causes frustration amongst most Protoss players.
Now, I realize the warpgate research time was already increased in the Beta, but what I'm suggesting is that another increase might solve the problems with the 4 gate. Another 20 or 30 seconds to the upgrade should mean you have enough to hold it off a lot easier with a different build. From my experience, the 4 gate push arrives just a little bit before I'm really ready to deal with it, and that's where the strength of it lies. So perhaps another increase to the research time may be all it takes.
Anyways, I'm more or less throwing that out there to generate some discussion on it. Your thoughts?
You forget that you need warpgates yourself to hold off the 4-warp gate. Adding 20 seconds might make the battle happen a little later, but if someone is saving chronoboosts, they can actually get it out even further before you do with added chronoboosts.
Seems like a good idea. A small increase in cost is comparable. Maybe even better as now warpgate research is no-brainer which is not good for diversity.
You should really watch the latest VOD from Artosis:
He explains a very valid counter to 4gate with the game as it is right now. It may be a bit harder to execute this build but if you get the build order and scouting, you should have your problem solved
No. This is going to do nothing but delay the 4gate by 20-30 seconds. You gotta think of the effects on the other matchup too. PvP, it won't really change anythingt because its mirror, but in PvT and PvZ it would give the opponent a much larger timing window to attack before the warpgates finish.
Well I'm thinking more on the lines of going another tech, such as 2 gate robo, or 3 gate robo, or maybe stargate play. This gives you a chance to develop those. You know, get an immortal or two out a bit earlier.
I've been smashing 4 gates with 3 gate robo. The trick is to make as much as you can from the 3 gates with crono while the warp research is going. Then crono out an immortal and use ff to stop the 4 gate until your immortal is out. If you get the immortal out, you then either get another immortal or go straight for colossus.Depending on if your opponent backs off or all ins with his 4 gate. Once you get the 1st colossus out you expo, 2nd colossus push, all the while adding gateway units as your economy allows. If I get 2 colossus and an immortal and they don't have colossus yet,they die. Or at the very least loose their expo which I still have.
If warp gate researched needs another nerf it should probably be to the cost next time. Making it an extra 50 gas would slow it down and reduce the number of units you can hit with.
After some thought ... Warp-gate should be like other tech routes - counterable by early agression. To make it happen the cost should be increased, increasing the time is not enough.
If they were to do something like this then it would break the use of protoss in 2v2 and unbalance it. And blizzard cares about 2v2 hence why they nerfed terran among other things as well in a previous patch..
On February 19 2011 00:46 SeraKuDA wrote: Well I'm thinking more on the lines of going another tech, such as 2 gate robo, or 3 gate robo, or maybe stargate play. This gives you a chance to develop those. You know, get an immortal or two out a bit earlier.
As I posted above, watch the VOD. Artosis uses an exactly what you want. He gets a robo and an immortal and totally crushes the 4WG rush
I can't see this being viable without destroying PvT. Holding a 3-rax timing with later warpgate/less chronoboosts would be difficult (can't chrono your warpgates), not to mention the extra chronoboost you'd need for warpgate research takes away potentials ones needed for robos/tech.
Truly, I think this is a bad suggestion- eventually the 4gate vs 4gate problems of PvP will get solved, rather than suggesting unreasonable changes (consider the other matchups' timings and effects), you should be working on defenses against a 4 gate push. EDIT; Above this post is an Artosis' instructional video you should watch.
On February 19 2011 00:47 Dental Floss wrote: If warp gate researched needs another nerf it should probably be to the cost next time. Making it an extra 50 gas would slow it down and reduce the number of units you can hit with.
This suggestion is worse. If warpgate cost 50 more gas, Protoss would either have to sacrifice the initial stalker or delay warpgate tech when the cyber finishes. With the former, 2 marauder push wins. With the latter, 3 rax wins. The problem would be even worse in PvZ, where you need an early 200 gas just for starting warp gate tech and a single sentry? Please consider your suggestions and their ramifications before bothering to post them.
On February 19 2011 00:47 Koszmarny wrote: After some thought ... Warp-gate should be like other tech routes - counterable by early agression. To make it happen the cost should be increased, increasing the time is not enough.
What.
Just what.
You pretty much need warp gate tech to hold off any kind of early kind aggression.
They should make it so warpgates produce slower then gateways. The way I see it, if you're in defensive mode you make units from gateways, when you're in aggressive/attacking mode you turn your buildings into warpgates so you can warp in units on the field of battle. I think this would give an advantage to the defender in pvp.
EPT
