EPTI add to those arguments that the ratings you propose are too high for such a system. I'd accept the number #1 to have a 2800+ rating, not 4300.
SC2 Ladder Analysis - Hidden Ratings. - Page 4
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Gulzt
Netherlands275 Posts
I add to those arguments that the ratings you propose are too high for such a system. I'd accept the number #1 to have a 2800+ rating, not 4300. | ||
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FetTerBender
Germany1393 Posts
Looking forward to an even deeper insight into the confusing ladder system made by Blizzard -.- | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
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Consummate
Australia191 Posts
so he must be really good | ||
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Lunchtime
183 Posts
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Mendelfist
Sweden356 Posts
On November 01 2010 10:07 darmousseh wrote: To be exact it's your points + (division - 1) * 500 + bonus pool + (1500 - total bonus pool) against their MMR. This is the way in order to make sure that YOUR points go towards the correct MMR. I have taken another route in trying to determine the difference in points (500 in your formula) between the leagues. The MR columns on this web page are calculated as points minus spent bonus, ie they are simply "earned points": http://www.lysator.liu.se/~john/history.html If we assume that earned points converge to MMR and that the system tries to find me equal opponents, my MR value should be about the same as my opponents MR value, if my opponent is in the same league as me. Here I have calculated my MR minus my opponents MR. I have disregarded opponents with less than 100 matches played: silver MR - silver MR: 92 -65 18 87 -52 77 82 137 6 6 66 73 12 75 63 2 133 138 The average difference is slightly above zero. Maybe this is due to the division weighting Blizzard was talking about, I don't know. Here I have calculated the MR value differences between my gold opponents when I was in silver: Silver MR - gold MR: 224 180 196 180 175 141 243 118 117 190 151 138 195 187 256 108 212 200 Now, if your formula (division - 1) * 500 was correct one wold expect the average difference to be 500. It is not. It's closer to 150. There are clearly things missing here. Edit: For those who say "TL;DR", a shorter version is: If I am in silver, meet a gold player and calculate our MMRs according to the formula darmousseh gave I find that my gold opponent always has a much higher MMR than me, which is not reasonable. They should be about equal. | ||
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petzergling
538 Posts
What I dont understand is that I thought its already been acknowledged that a player with 1500 rating can have a higher MMR then a player of 1550 rating, givin that the blizz top 200 does not match the sc2 ranks top 200 in multiple instances. So how is it that your question to calculate MMR derives it as a direct function of rating? ie: points = MMR - 1500 - (Bonus Pool Remaning) + (1500 - total bonus pool) simplifying the equation 1500 - BPR + 1500 - TBP to variable X we can say that points = MMR - X this would imply that if i had 2100 points, I would have a higher MMR then all players 2099 points and lower, and a lower mmr then all players 2101 points or higher which I thought was determined to not be true | ||
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Grummler
Germany743 Posts
While "your" MMR might not be the blizzard MMR, its still a point value that has no inflation and should be comparable between the leagues. But i dont think the MMR is based on someones point value. It is possibly for the MMR (and its adjustments) to be soley based on your opponents MMR, Your point value (and its adjustments) can be based on your MMR and your opponents points, as said in one of your sources. But calculating someones MMR from his points doesnt feel the correct way. Of course i cant give any offical sources for this, because there are no... It would be interesting to see how your TOP200 list compares to the offical TOP200 right when it got released. They should be identical (but i dont think they are). | ||
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Riot Janook
United States112 Posts
According to your system, I am rank 60 in the US with an MMR of 3666. However, I have never appeared on the Blizzard list of top 200 in the US, which I believe uses the hidden MMR. There you have it. | ||
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foo
Australia109 Posts
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heishe
Germany2284 Posts
That said, what about the obvious difference between divisions? It's been known for quite a while now that a player with 1800 points in Diamond Medivac Alamo whatever probably has a higher or lower MMR than someone with 1800 points in Diamond bla blub whatever. It was even confirmed by the Blizz staff at the Blizzcon Multiplayer panel. | ||
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NETRAT
Belarus180 Posts
It's been known for quite a while now that a player with 1800 points in Diamond Medivac Alamo whatever probably has a higher or lower MMR than someone with 1800 points in Diamond bla blub whatever. It was even confirmed by the Blizz staff at the Blizzcon Multiplayer panel. could this be related to later placement matches and as result higher average bonus pool for divisions that were created later?! That seems wierd that divisions have their own ratings :[ | ||
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DrBoo
Canada1177 Posts
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The Touch
United Kingdom667 Posts
1) How do you determine the figure for total bonus pool? Division, current points, personal bonus pool remaining, and games played are all easy to find, but I know of nowhere that displays the total bonus pool currently allocated. 2) Rating = (division - 1) * 500 + (points) + (bonus pool remaining) + (1500 - total bonus pool) ... EDIT; After doing some testing I have added the following to my formula. Rating = (division - 1) * 500 + (points) + (bonus pool remaining) - (2 * 150 * (1-games played/50) #if you have played under 50 games.) Did you deliberately remove the (1500 - total bonus pool) from the second formula? Do players who haven't played 50 games ignore this component for some reason? 3) Intuitively, Current Displayed Points + Bonus Pool Remaining - Total Bonus Pool Allocated = Base Points, excluding Bonus Pool, er, bonuses (which not only makes sense from a fairness point of view, but it's also what Blizz have told us all along). That said, your forumla essentially says that, for players who are beyond the 50 games, their hidden MMR consists of 3 components: [ Division Adjustment ] [ Base Points ] [ constant of 1500 ] Is there an intuitive way of explaining the [ Division Adjustment ] component? Because it seems to me that your system changes my MMR based on the division I am in, which doesn't make logical sense. If you take me in silver league and Mr X from Bronze league, we could both be playing at gold level, playing and beating and losing to the same people, both good enough to be promoted soon, but your calculation would give me a higher MMR, even though our skill is the same. | ||
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Leviance
Germany4079 Posts
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Thorantham
United States221 Posts
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Catyoul
France2377 Posts
What you have found though is how the different leagues compare, and how we can convert from one to another. That in itself is interesting enough. Also, this does not take into consideration the recent information that not all divisions are weighted equally. While we're not quite sure yet what that means, we know points cannot be directly compared across divisions. | ||
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Merano
Austria105 Posts
The only thing that I can confirm is that the bonus pool seems to be added for the hidden points. I played against 2 different guys who were 4:0 in placement matches and got quite a lot of points for that wins. So it seems that the system internally considers them much higher than my 1400p in Platinum. @Leviance: You are not #125 player in europe. You are #125 of all teamliquid users in europe typing their name into that web form. Several 1000 other players much better than you are still unknown to the system. | ||
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Mandalor
Germany2362 Posts
As much as I'd like to believe that, I highly doubt it  edit: whoops should've read every single post I guess. Sorry for that. | ||
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Art_of_Kill
Zaire1232 Posts
On November 01 2010 09:05 darmousseh wrote: please also note that i will be adjusting the numbers once i mine the data a little more, however, i believe the formula by itself is very close to accurate. Also note be accurate, i mean accurate to one of your MMRs. There are 3 likely MMRs. Mean - 2 * sigma mean mean + 2 * sigma I have feelings that the points displayed represent the 3rd one so that players have a little bit higher points. after ur formula i have double as much points as i have in reality though i get matched with people where neither i nor them are favorit but they still have like 300-500points more >>> 3*500 + 1801 + 126 +(1500 - 1338) 3589 | ||
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