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Argument on Starcraft vs BFME2

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Belegorm
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States330 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-30 18:14:58
April 30 2010 18:08 GMT
#1
I was just in a long, drawn out argument with about 5 of my friends, who were arguing that battle for middle earth ii is an a) more popular game, b) has greater depth, and c) starcraft doesn't actually count as a "strategy" game because there is no actual military strategy involved.

I know, people here will start raging (more or less like I would have if I didn't contain myself) but can you guys give me logical arguments?

They claim that Starcraft was never really that big for a long time, both to the general population and to the gaming population; that Starcraft and the RTS genre in general didn't really get big until BFME2 came out. They claimed that over 70 million people play BFME2 rise of the witch king currently, with multimillion dollar tournaments, and that 93% of Russia's population plays the game.

They also claim that Starcraft isn't a game as deep (this is what really annoys me). That you basically have to end up using one or two units to really dominate the game. For example, goons with maybe zealots. I tried arguing that the incredibly powerful heroes that can turn the entire game around in one go is a big minus for that game, but they seemed to think that it just added additional levels of strategy. Speaking of which, they seemed to think that you could use more military strategy in BFME2 and virtually none in Starcraft. Basically that if you have higher apm, if you can use the mechanics better to throw bigger armies against your enemy that you'll always win. That it would be impossible to ever beat Flash unless you were as fast as him. With BFME2 on the other hand, they claim that you can beat them by using some strategy, instead of using a cookie-cutter build and executing it faster than the opponent.

Yes, I know the rage this incites in all of us due to the stupidity of most of it, but I'm horrible articulating my thoughts on the game (personally I believe BFME2 is just another RTS game), so I need some help (BTW, the main guy is in the debate society...).

Edit: Actual facts would be very helpful.
MUM GIVE ME SOME SCISSORS!!!
J1.au
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Australia3596 Posts
April 30 2010 18:14 GMT
#2
Sounds to me like they were trolling you.
Foreplay
Profile Joined May 2008
United States1154 Posts
April 30 2010 18:14 GMT
#3
There is no point trying to argue. Your friends are obviously retarded.
Better than Pokebunny
Foreplay
Profile Joined May 2008
United States1154 Posts
April 30 2010 18:14 GMT
#4
On May 01 2010 03:14 J1.au wrote:
Sounds to me like they were trolling you.

or this
Better than Pokebunny
QibingZero
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
2611 Posts
April 30 2010 18:14 GMT
#5
Where can I watch these BFME2 pro games with screaming Russian commentators and thousands of fans?

Oh.
Oh, my eSports
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
April 30 2010 18:15 GMT
#6
How is this an argument? Either they were trolling you or they were imbeciles.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
condoriano
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States826 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-30 18:51:24
April 30 2010 18:16 GMT
#7
93% of Russian population doesn't have computers. And half of the ones that do won't have a proper internet connection to play this.

Apparently someone (like Latham) doesn't read the OP before posting, this challenges the point OPs friends made that 93% of Russia's population play this game (which is comical in itself)
Ridentem dicere verum quid vetat?
sCuMBaG
Profile Joined August 2006
United Kingdom1144 Posts
April 30 2010 18:21 GMT
#8
huh?
i don't even know that game, so what the fuck.

and believe me.. 70.000.000 people + the russia thing is such an obvious, dumb and blatant lie, that it actually made me laugh

I'm not really able to argument about this, but every child knows SC:BW is the deepest rts that exists. there is no game that requires so much apm + multitask + !strategy! (which includes mindgames etc.) that there is literally no game equal.

LOOOL... just watched a video about it. this game sucks ass dude.
it's pure a click on one another and some heroes in the big bash. this sucks so damn much, you can play it with about 10 apm.
i'm not even gonna bother to think about any arguments. you shouldn't talk to them about this topic, cause clearly they're newbs. please quote them my post
Latham
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
9560 Posts
April 30 2010 18:22 GMT
#9
On May 01 2010 03:16 condoriano wrote:
93% of Russian population doesn't have computers. And half of the ones that do won't have a proper internet connection to play this.


Does it hurt? I mean pulling the random facts out of your ass.

To OP: Get new friends. If you want to find "logical arguments" check the "News" "Final Edits" and "Articles" sections on TL. Going to wikipedia or liquipedia might also do the trick. OR just cite fomos.kr as source for everything -____-;
For the curse of life is the curse of want. PC = https://be.pcpartpicker.com/list/4JknvV
kuresuti
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
1393 Posts
April 30 2010 18:24 GMT
#10
Just ask them for numbers, or team names, or tournament coverage or anything regarding BFME competitive play. Most likely they will not be able to provide evidence of a competitive scene even close to Starcrafts.

Also, show them a VOD of Boxer from way back, when BFME wasn't even thought of.
condoriano
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States826 Posts
April 30 2010 18:25 GMT
#11
On May 01 2010 03:22 Latham wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 01 2010 03:16 condoriano wrote:
93% of Russian population doesn't have computers. And half of the ones that do won't have a proper internet connection to play this.


Does it hurt? I mean pulling the random facts out of your ass.


I pulled out a random fact that it's less than 93%? Are you serious accusing me with this?
Ridentem dicere verum quid vetat?
wiesel
Profile Joined September 2008
Germany727 Posts
April 30 2010 18:26 GMT
#12
BFME what....? Your friends are clueless
Ambergris_sTarTer
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Philippines166 Posts
April 30 2010 18:27 GMT
#13
BFME?

wow, where can you find a game that is all balanced?
If there would be a proleague in the Philippines, we from Ambergris will take it!
Belegorm
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States330 Posts
April 30 2010 18:28 GMT
#14
Well... I can't really get new friends, considering I'm on a tiny college and these are the guys I get to play games with. We do play BW as well (and intend to play SC2 next fall) but a number of them prefer BFME2. I can't play online too much either, since it's a 15 minute walk to a place with slow internet that doesn't block SC (as to them opening port 6112, probably won't happen).

If anyone can roll out actual game statistics, that would be awesome.
MUM GIVE ME SOME SCISSORS!!!
.gypsy
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Canada689 Posts
April 30 2010 18:33 GMT
#15
Just rape them at BFME2 over and over again then say "this game is too ez" and open up sc...ezpz?
https://www.twitch.tv/gypsy93
wiesel
Profile Joined September 2008
Germany727 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-30 18:40:56
April 30 2010 18:33 GMT
#16
Show them a Broodwar FPvod or OSL final something like that should convince them.Oh and this game is from EA, case closed.
condoriano
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States826 Posts
April 30 2010 18:35 GMT
#17
70 mil people playing is the most idiotic thing someone can say. Your friends are lying.
Ridentem dicere verum quid vetat?
SkelA
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Macedonia13032 Posts
April 30 2010 18:35 GMT
#18
Whats this BFME2 thing .... never heard of it so prob it sucks ass.
Stork and KHAN fan till 2012 ...
J1.au
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Australia3596 Posts
April 30 2010 18:36 GMT
#19
On May 01 2010 03:28 Belegorm wrote:
Well... I can't really get new friends, considering I'm on a tiny college and these are the guys I get to play games with. We do play BW as well (and intend to play SC2 next fall) but a number of them prefer BFME2. I can't play online too much either, since it's a 15 minute walk to a place with slow internet that doesn't block SC (as to them opening port 6112, probably won't happen).

If anyone can roll out actual game statistics, that would be awesome.

Are you a troll?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brood_war

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lord_of_the_Rings:_The_Battle_for_Middle-earth_II
KinosJourney2
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Sweden1811 Posts
April 30 2010 18:38 GMT
#20
They obviously are stupid, their inferior game cannot be compared to neither Starcraft: Brood War or even Starcraft 2 that are only in beta phases.

They are just stupid, avoid debating with retards
ocho wrote: EDIT: NEVERMIND, THIS THING HAS APM TECHNOLOGY OMG
Ambergris_sTarTer
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Philippines166 Posts
April 30 2010 18:38 GMT
#21
On May 01 2010 03:28 Belegorm wrote:
Well... I can't really get new friends, considering I'm on a tiny college and these are the guys I get to play games with. We do play BW as well (and intend to play SC2 next fall) but a number of them prefer BFME2. I can't play online too much either, since it's a 15 minute walk to a place with slow internet that doesn't block SC (as to them opening port 6112, probably won't happen).

If anyone can roll out actual game statistics, that would be awesome.


check out the Liquipedia, you'll find out... everything about BW
If there would be a proleague in the Philippines, we from Ambergris will take it!
.gypsy
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Canada689 Posts
April 30 2010 18:39 GMT
#22
Show them this thread LOL
https://www.twitch.tv/gypsy93
Belegorm
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States330 Posts
April 30 2010 18:40 GMT
#23
I looked up the wikipedia articles first, lol. I can't seem to find the number of sales for BFME2 though, is there any way to figure that out?

And please stop with the "ur friends are retards" posts, that not only doesn't help the argument but there is a possibility of them seeing this thread and then it'll hurt your credibility.
MUM GIVE ME SOME SCISSORS!!!
blue_arrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
1971 Posts
April 30 2010 18:41 GMT
#24
"93% of Russia's population plays the game"

ROFL oh man that is just hilarious on so many levels
| MLIA | the weather sucks dick here
condoriano
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States826 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-30 18:50:33
April 30 2010 18:50 GMT
#25
On May 01 2010 03:40 Belegorm wrote:
I looked up the wikipedia articles first, lol. I can't seem to find the number of sales for BFME2 though, is there any way to figure that out?

And please stop with the "ur friends are retards" posts, that not only doesn't help the argument but there is a possibility of them seeing this thread and then it'll hurt your credibility.


It says BFME2 was 10th best selling game that year or something like that, which means it was nowhere close to real big sellers lol.
Ridentem dicere verum quid vetat?
Ambergris_sTarTer
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Philippines166 Posts
April 30 2010 18:50 GMT
#26
On May 01 2010 03:40 Belegorm wrote:
I looked up the wikipedia articles first, lol. I can't seem to find the number of sales for BFME2 though, is there any way to figure that out?



That answers your question sir
If there would be a proleague in the Philippines, we from Ambergris will take it!
Zhou
Profile Joined February 2009
United States832 Posts
April 30 2010 18:51 GMT
#27
Why not just show them Team Liquid? The site literally tells almost every secret of StarCraft. South Korea should be an obvious answer to how popular StarCraft is. WCG is too...

Nameable players around the world. No strategy in StarCraft? I don't ever remember BME2 being very strategic at all with the limited choices of units. Let alone the game itself is practically dead in my opinion...

I think you're friends are morons and may living under an electronic rock. That or they are hardcore LOTR fans that don't like sci-fi.
Ginko
Profile Joined April 2010
Bangladesh69 Posts
April 30 2010 18:59 GMT
#28
On May 01 2010 03:08 Belegorm wrote:

They claim that Starcraft was never really that big for a long time, both to the general population and to the gaming population; that Starcraft and the RTS genre in general didn't really get big until BFME2 came out. They claimed that over 70 million people play BFME2 rise of the witch king currently, with multimillion dollar tournaments, and that 93% of Russia's population plays the game.




Edit: Actual facts would be very helpful.


okay if that isnt obvious BS i dont know wut is
C Zerg 2008-2010 1v1 plat 2v2 plat,
fly.stat
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States449 Posts
April 30 2010 19:00 GMT
#29
"93% of Russia's population plays the game"

That's interesting. Over 10 million people, in Russia alone, play BFME2. Guys, I think we are playing the wrong RTS. Let's all switch over immediately, considering how factual this data is.

They also have million dollar tournaments! God, what did Flash make in the OSL last season? 40k? Wow, starcraft is such a chump RTS.

Installing now.
Until I write you again, take care of your precious person.
Jakalo
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Latvia2350 Posts
April 30 2010 19:05 GMT
#30
I actually played it with my friends, it is.. nice, but certainly not competitive.
Dominated them after a few tries, heroes and abilities are game breakers as well as some units.
Nostalgia is not as good as it used to be.
rethos
Profile Joined April 2010
Romania103 Posts
April 30 2010 19:08 GMT
#31
one argument about popularity: google both. sc gets about 21 mil, bfme2 around 3 mil... even asuming that sc2 has around 30% of those sites (i think this is a over estimation) that would still leave starcraft very much in the lead... i hope this might help in your argument
Flash is a beast... And we love it this way
The6357
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States1268 Posts
April 30 2010 19:12 GMT
#32
sounds like ur friends are right about everything except SC is not better than w/e the other game is...
2010 worldcup!! corea fighting!!!
Radfield
Profile Joined September 2009
Canada2720 Posts
April 30 2010 19:13 GMT
#33
Russia has a population of 142 million people. According to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runet#Mass_usage) apprx 37.5 million people used the internet in the 6 months leading up to June 2009. So only about 1/4 of the population even uses the internet.


So it would be very difficult for 93% of the Russian population to play any online game. However, it's possible that they mean 93% of the internet population, but either way get a source or call them bullshitters.
SilentCrono
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1420 Posts
April 30 2010 19:14 GMT
#34
never even heard of this game lol.
♞ Your soul will forever be lost in the void of a horse. ♞
Kyuukyuu
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada6263 Posts
April 30 2010 19:16 GMT
#35
Your friends are awesome and you are easily trolled.
TwilightStar
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States649 Posts
April 30 2010 19:19 GMT
#36
I used to play BFME2, It takes so much more skill than SC.

... NOT

Are your friends KIDDING!? My God! Just play them in it and beat them xD
(5)Twilight Star.scx --------- AdmiralHoth: There was one week when I didn't shave for a month.
Ambergris_sTarTer
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Philippines166 Posts
April 30 2010 19:22 GMT
#37
BFME2, that's just a game intended for people who can't think more about how to defeat a good opponent
If there would be a proleague in the Philippines, we from Ambergris will take it!
rredtooth
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
5459 Posts
April 30 2010 19:22 GMT
#38
i couldnt even recognize the acronym haha.
[formerly sponsored by the artist formerly known as Gene]
condoriano
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States826 Posts
April 30 2010 19:22 GMT
#39
On May 01 2010 04:13 Radfield wrote:
Russia has a population of 142 million people. According to wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runet#Mass_usage) apprx 37.5 million people used the internet in the 6 months leading up to June 2009. So only about 1/4 of the population even uses the internet.


So it would be very difficult for 93% of the Russian population to play any online game. However, it's possible that they mean 93% of the internet population, but either way get a source or call them bullshitters.


Most people are still using either dial-up or "internet cards" with really slow connection speed, most of them won't even be able to play this (sup Latham).
Ridentem dicere verum quid vetat?
muta_micro
Profile Joined February 2010
United States183 Posts
April 30 2010 19:22 GMT
#40
Lol ive been to Russia many times, people there don't like bfme2 its not even in their internet cafes. Russia is all CS players. Maybe your friends need a swift kick to their jugular's.
You know when you see a planet and you see that light, that planet isn't even there thats just a light, that's just your neighbor shining a flashlight into your backyard looking for coons.
condoriano
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States826 Posts
April 30 2010 19:25 GMT
#41
On May 01 2010 04:16 Kyuukyuu wrote:
Your friends are awesome and you are easily trolled.


It could be that or could be something like "oh, they have tournaments with 10k prizes? well.. WE HAVE MULTIMILLOM DOLLAR TURNAMENTS.. yeah. Oh, it's biggest sport in Korea? WELL, IN RUSSIA 93% OF PEOPLE PLAY THIS" which is a lot worse. I can picture some idiot making stuff up as he goes, someone who only capable of playing fastest on bnet.
Ridentem dicere verum quid vetat?
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States44214 Posts
April 30 2010 19:26 GMT
#42
I've never even heard of BFME... 1 or 2.

For what it's worth, I polled 100 random people on my Facebook (about half of them were gamers, half of them not), and 95 of them have heard of StarCraft... 17 of them had heard of the BFME series. Only 6 had ever played BFME games, and 28 had played StarCraft games. All 6 of the people who have played BFME have also played SC, and they all thought SC was better in terms of strategy and gameplay.

And StarCraft is much more popular on a global scale.

While all of this doesn't necessarily mean StarCraft is automatically better (though I don't doubt for a second that it IS), BFME would be far more popular if it were as good as pro-BFME trolls say it is o.O
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
MadJack
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Peru357 Posts
April 30 2010 19:30 GMT
#43
Ive just seen that game on youtube.

I would rather play AOE2 ANYTIME before playing that crappy game, and yes I actually think even AOE2 is better than that game.
이제동 화이팅! / http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26jjD3ro-Xk /
Weasel-
Profile Joined June 2009
Canada1556 Posts
April 30 2010 19:34 GMT
#44
The 93% of Russia plays etc is definitely a lie, they know you like Starcraft and are trolling you really really hard. I've never even heard of the game lol.
HeartOfTofu
Profile Joined December 2009
United States308 Posts
April 30 2010 19:41 GMT
#45
Is this actually a serious thread? Just the fact that they claim a videogame has multimillion dollar tournaments should be enough to tell you that they're full of shit. No videogame is anywhere near that scale. Also, comparing one of the greatest, best-selling, and critically acclaimed RTS games of all time and one that was good enough to pioneer eSports on a scale which had never before been seen to some obscure game based on a book/film franchise which never even came close to topping the sales charts is stupid... I don't understand how this is even an argument unless your friends are either completely ignorant or delusional..
I like to asphixiate myself while covered in liquid latex... Do you?
Ambergris_sTarTer
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Philippines166 Posts
April 30 2010 19:45 GMT
#46
I agree, I better play RA3 than that BFME2
If there would be a proleague in the Philippines, we from Ambergris will take it!
Sephy90
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1785 Posts
April 30 2010 19:46 GMT
#47
i never heard of what the fuck is BFME2, i almost feel bad but nope, sc:bw > BFME2 NOPE NOPE BETTER SRY SRY KBYE
"So I turned the lights off at night and practiced by myself"
saritenite
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Singapore1680 Posts
April 30 2010 19:52 GMT
#48
Battle for Middle Earth has awesome graphics that goes way above BW's, I can see why.
Shallow bastards.
SubtleArt
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
2710 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-30 19:55:04
April 30 2010 19:53 GMT
#49
I think in the end it comes down to the fact that somewhere in Korea, playing starcraft is getting a guy money and sex. Ask them if BFME does that
+ Show Spoiler +
In all seriousness don't. I think they're trolling you and you care too much
Morrow on ZvP: "I'm not very confident in general vs Protoss because of the imbalance (Yes its imbalanced, get over it)."
r-eye
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada20 Posts
April 30 2010 19:55 GMT
#50
troll-_-
Kenpachi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States9908 Posts
April 30 2010 20:01 GMT
#51
show them WCG crowds because theyre big every year.
also tell stories about SC like how sAviOr dominated for 2 years and got curbstomped by Bisu.
Nada's body is South Korea's greatest weapon.
Ambergris_sTarTer
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Philippines166 Posts
April 30 2010 20:03 GMT
#52
On May 01 2010 05:01 Kenpachi wrote:
show them WCG crowds because theyre big every year.
also tell stories about SC like how sAviOr dominated for 2 years and got curbstomped by Bisu.


and don't forget to ask your friends if BFME2 is included in those games in WCG, because if it does, it's gonna be a boring world
If there would be a proleague in the Philippines, we from Ambergris will take it!
HeartOfTofu
Profile Joined December 2009
United States308 Posts
April 30 2010 20:04 GMT
#53
The game was released in 2006, which is like 8 years after the professional SC scene began so obviously any claim that this game sparked the SC pro scene is nonsense. The 70 million player thing is such obvious bullshit considering the fact that not even World Of Warcraft has anywhere NEAR that number of players. Starcraft has sold over 11.5 million copies to date and that's not counting players who play without a key over LAN or on private servers. I doubt LOTR even comes close to that. I don't know how old your friends are, but SC was huge and highly anticipated even before its release because of the success of the Warcraft franchise so I don't know what they're talking about when they claim it wasn't big or important to gamers. SC was the #1 selling PC game the year of its release and it was completely mainstream back then just like CoD and Halo are today. How is that not big or important?
I like to asphixiate myself while covered in liquid latex... Do you?
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
April 30 2010 20:05 GMT
#54
bw is the third highest selling pc game of all time
end of story
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
mullinmm
Profile Joined April 2010
United States21 Posts
April 30 2010 20:21 GMT
#55
This thread prompted me to go look up stuff about this lord of the rings game, and to try and find userbase comparisons between it and starcraft. Said another way, this thread prompted me to waste my time.

You are troll or your friends are the most massive morons on the planet. Ignore them.
yeee
Belegorm
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States330 Posts
April 30 2010 20:26 GMT
#56
BTW, when I try to use sales to support the argument that SC is far more popular, they just say people pirate the game, so sales are not really indicative of the population
MUM GIVE ME SOME SCISSORS!!!
VerticalHorizon
Profile Joined September 2004
United States415 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-30 20:35:51
April 30 2010 20:34 GMT
#57
On May 01 2010 05:26 Belegorm wrote:
BTW, when I try to use sales to support the argument that SC is far more popular, they just say people pirate the game, so sales are not really indicative of the population


The troll is evolving!

But seriously man, why don't you just school them in BFME2? I remember playing it for fun during some downtime at a SC tourney I was at and it seemed simplistic enough. Just do some research, learn some builds, and rape them.
Call it the greatest sin to prefer existence over honor and, for the sake of life, to lose the reasons for living. - Juvenal, Satires
Wings
Profile Joined January 2010
United States999 Posts
April 30 2010 20:41 GMT
#58
tell them to go play 2 full days against any A/B rank player, and if they win a single game without proxy 2gate, they can say that starcraft has no depth.
The probability of Kim Carrier getting all those predictions wrong is similar to the probability Flash loses a TvT. Kim Carrier MUST BE a genius. His only big mistake... STORK.
Belegorm
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States330 Posts
April 30 2010 20:44 GMT
#59
Thing is that I don't enjoy the game too much, and there's currently one guy who manages to win almost every time with dwarves. Speaking of build orders, they believe that it doesn't matter what kind of "build" you use, strategy will let you win, even with low apm.

On that point though, where the heck can I find build orders for middle earth? Whenever I google BFME2 I get loads of results from amazon and the like, no TL like sites. I usually play men (though I might switch to elves just to prove the game's unbalanced; maybe make some uber hero and use some cheap strategy to beat them).
MUM GIVE ME SOME SCISSORS!!!
Belegorm
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States330 Posts
April 30 2010 20:45 GMT
#60
On May 01 2010 05:41 Wings wrote:
tell them to go play 2 full days against any A/B rank player, and if they win a single game without proxy 2gate, they can say that starcraft has no depth.



Thing is they claim that it's all about a player's ability to do things faster than his opponent in SC, instead of using strategy
MUM GIVE ME SOME SCISSORS!!!
3FFA
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States3931 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-30 20:45:56
April 30 2010 20:45 GMT
#61
What game are we talking about? SCII or SCI? If BFME2 is a game it must be a game for girls that stands for best friends, more losers for everyone else!

edit: but seriously, these guys are trolling you and they just don't want to get pawned by you in star craft.
"As long as it comes from a pure place and from a honest place, you know, you can write whatever you want."
Belegorm
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States330 Posts
April 30 2010 20:50 GMT
#62
Well now first, he says that I'm not checking the Russian or German sites for stuff on Starcraft, and also that I should do something better with my time other than arguing that Starcraft is better, and spending so much time on Starcraft.
MUM GIVE ME SOME SCISSORS!!!
wanderer
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States641 Posts
April 30 2010 20:53 GMT
#63
I had never heard of BFME2 before looking at this thread so I think that that settles the argument in my mind at least before it even starts.
Fuck you, I have a degree in mathematics and I speak 12 languages. (I called the World Cup final in 2008 btw)
d(O.o)a
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada5066 Posts
April 30 2010 20:53 GMT
#64
On May 01 2010 03:14 J1.au wrote:
Sounds to me like they were trolling you.


This, I have BFME2 there is no military strategy involved, it's simply tech and mass up or be on the team with the bigger base and instant win.
Hi.
Belegorm
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States330 Posts
April 30 2010 20:58 GMT
#65
Thing is, they're not trolling me. It seems like one guy at least seriously dislikes Starcraft, he plays it because it's the only thing that we can run on all of our computers (not to mention the seniors that only play SC, which we won't have with us next semester).
MUM GIVE ME SOME SCISSORS!!!
Kenpachi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States9908 Posts
April 30 2010 21:05 GMT
#66
On May 01 2010 05:58 Belegorm wrote:
Thing is, they're not trolling me. It seems like one guy at least seriously dislikes Starcraft, he plays it because it's the only thing that we can run on all of our computers (not to mention the seniors that only play SC, which we won't have with us next semester).

wait wait.. are you trolling us? o_O...
Nada's body is South Korea's greatest weapon.
Ambergris_sTarTer
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Philippines166 Posts
April 30 2010 21:09 GMT
#67
On May 01 2010 05:58 Belegorm wrote:
Thing is, they're not trolling me. It seems like one guy at least seriously dislikes Starcraft, he plays it because it's the only thing that we can run on all of our computers (not to mention the seniors that only play SC, which we won't have with us next semester).


then stay away from him...
If there would be a proleague in the Philippines, we from Ambergris will take it!
Uncle Leo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
60 Posts
April 30 2010 21:11 GMT
#68
On May 01 2010 03:14 J1.au wrote:
Sounds to me like they were trolling you.
This. It was so obvious too.
nTooMuch
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States127 Posts
April 30 2010 21:16 GMT
#69
On May 01 2010 03:08 Belegorm wrote:

They also claim that Starcraft isn't a game as deep (this is what really annoys me). That you basically have to end up using one or two units to really dominate the game. For example, goons with maybe zealots.


Ask them to try to get to C level on Iccup using only goons and maybe zealots. Actually, let them just try to get D+
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
April 30 2010 21:21 GMT
#70
On May 01 2010 06:16 nTooMuch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 01 2010 03:08 Belegorm wrote:

They also claim that Starcraft isn't a game as deep (this is what really annoys me). That you basically have to end up using one or two units to really dominate the game. For example, goons with maybe zealots.


Ask them to try to get to C level on Iccup using only goons and maybe zealots. Actually, let them just try to get D+


10/15 gate
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
April 30 2010 21:23 GMT
#71
Seriously, tell to get to C level on Iccup if it's so easy.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Belegorm
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States330 Posts
April 30 2010 21:49 GMT
#72
If I asked them to reach C level they'd just say that whoever they were playing against were simply faster and thus could produce a bigger army faster.

Anyway, it's a choice between an argument and a friendship, and on this tiny campus (where once again, it takes a long walk to be able to get to internet to use iccup), I'd pick the friendship. I'm really hoping he gets SC2 over the summer and likes that better (though I may have made him have a bias against the game).
MUM GIVE ME SOME SCISSORS!!!
Pplusad
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany9 Posts
April 30 2010 21:56 GMT
#73
Hm i dont know about BFME2 never played it and have no idea if this game is any popular.

Would be really cool to see a list about online traffic.

Only things i know:

Starcraft 1 B.net ~16-20K players online all time + ~ 1-2K on Iccup
Warcraft 3 TFT B.net ~ 30-45K players online all time ~ 1,5K on iccup
Counterstrike Source 50-70K online on steam at all times
HON Open Beta ~ 30-40K online at all times
Kimaker
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2131 Posts
April 30 2010 21:57 GMT
#74
BFME2 utilizes a clear "cookie-cutter" rock, paper, scissors formula to determine the winner in a fight between battallions, in SC, with good positioning, micro, and timing, almost any "hard" counter can be overcome. That ALONE, should destroy their argument. Barring that:

1. SCBW has existed competitively for going on 12 years, and is STILL going strong even with it's sequel right around the corner.
2. Given that you play BW, just kick their asses at BFME2, proceed to explain that SC is the harder game, and then have them try that and wreck them at it. You win either way. If they say you won (at BFME) because you played faster than them, it invalidates their argument regarding macro, if not, they have to admit that SC is harder on ALL levels, making it the superior RTS.
3. "RTS never got big until BFME2 came out", Have they heard of AOE The Conquerors, DoW, CnC, or Warcraft? Obviously been living under a rock for the greater part of the late 90's and early 2000's. All of those were huge RTS games, that I still go back and play, and if they've heard of them or played them, then they've just lied regarding RTS popularity.
4. EA made the game. Case Closed.
Entusman #54 (-_-) ||"Gold is for the Mistress-Silver for the Maid-Copper for the craftsman cunning in his trade. "Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall, But Iron — Cold Iron — is master of them all|| "Optimism is Cowardice."- Oswald Spengler
FiBsTeR
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States415 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-30 22:00:05
April 30 2010 21:59 GMT
#75
On May 01 2010 03:08 Belegorm wrote:
(BTW, the main guy is in the debate society...).


Good to know that debates are just two parties throwing bullshit at each other.
mcJ
Profile Joined May 2009
Denmark322 Posts
April 30 2010 22:06 GMT
#76
On May 01 2010 03:14 J1.au wrote:
Sounds to me like they were trolling you.

Actully i don't think they were, I've got friends who will argue that CS:S requires much more skill and strategic insight. And ofc because Starcraft is 10years+ old and have bad gfx, CS:S HAS to be a better game, right?

I guess your friends just ran out of arguments and started pulling shit out the sleeves. It happens, some people just don't know when the battle is lost.
L_Master
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8017 Posts
April 30 2010 22:13 GMT
#77
If I asked them to reach C level they'd just say that whoever they were playing against were simply faster and thus could produce a bigger army faster.


I really feel this could be a troll, because you're not really trying any of our advice it feels like. People gave you statistics on some things, such as how many people play in Russia. If you're friends are refuting obvious facts from reputable sources, they are either true morons or more likely trolling the crap out of you.

Fairly easily refuted; seeing as how there are even B players that have little over 100 APM, and they can curbstomp D/D+ players with 300 APM. Even conisdering that if a D player has 300 APM he is probably spamming a good bit, this even holds fairly true at high foriegner levels or even pro-levels. Also, if it were just about getting a bigger army faster, you only need like 80-100 APM to macro perfectly if thats all you focus on. According to them you could just macro up, focusing only on that, and then go attack and win. You could also demonstrate the need for propr scouting and things like that, by triple expanding against them and the watching them roll you with their inital units; or demonstrate the importantce of knowing what to make when. You could have like 80 food in tanks, and roll some massively larger number of goons pretty easily, whereas if you changed them all to zealots the battle outcome would be decidely different.

Well now first, he says that I'm not checking the Russian or German sites for stuff on Starcraft

Why would you need to check Russian and German sites?

They claim that Starcraft was never really that big for a long time, both to the general population and to the gaming population; that Starcraft and the RTS genre in general didn't really get big until BFME2 came out.


Obvious bullshit is obvious. The pro scene for starcraft was alive and running strong well before 2006. For instance:
. Yeah, that doesn't look too big to me either hundreds if not thousands of fans, professional annoucers, stages, just your average run of the mill game, no? Starcraft proscene started before 2000 I believe and become very popular around Boxer's time, which is way before 2006. If they are honestly saying this they are completely ignorant.

They claimed that over 70 million people play BFME2 rise of the witch king currently, with multimillion dollar tournaments, and that 93% of Russia's population plays the game.


Uh huh. More people play BFME2 than WoW, i don't think so. Not to mention, if this many people played BFME2 then you'd think it would be something most people have heard of, but it isn't. I hadn't heard of it until you posted this. I'm sorry man, but if you're friends aren't making this statistics up on the spot, which they almost have to be since they are such blatant bullshit, then they are seriously misinformed or just dumb.

As a final note, if you're friends are that hung up on mechanics = skill then just explain/show them how various builds play out against players of similar mechanics. Its easy to see things like if zerg goes 3 hatch before pool and terran goes 2 rax pressure, the zerg is going to have a difficult time to say the least. If you show them games of the same skill, that eliminates the "he's faster" argument and then you can actually explain the strategy that is going on. Not to mention obvious things like the importance of flanking, sneak attacks, attacking production, high ground mechanics, etc. Strategy is starcraft is certainly there and shouldn't be that hard to explain to someone.


EffOrt and Soulkey Hwaiting!
zomgzergrush
Profile Joined August 2008
United States923 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-30 22:28:50
April 30 2010 22:28 GMT
#78
I honestly haven't heard of this game before you posted this thread.

Since it is a fact that BFME2 has less depth, strategy, and overall can't compare to the skill required for SCBW, simply rape them over and over in BFME2 with your superior RTS skills.

Then proceed to play SC2 without hotkeys and slower APM and beat them with it too.

Verbal argument won't win any of these fanboys over.

Bronze skipping straight to Diamond in 40 games retail release. Bnet 2.0 ladder really takes it's sweet time to think about that league placement.
exshingo
Profile Joined May 2009
Philippines10 Posts
April 30 2010 22:32 GMT
#79
You don't need to argue. Just enjoy both games. Stop convincing anyone because each of them has a different unique game-play that their fans and players enjoy. If you insist to argue you and your friends will get nonstop disagreement.
Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
April 30 2010 22:52 GMT
#80
"hey claimed that over 70 million people play BFME2 rise of the witch king currently, with multimillion dollar tournaments, and that 93% of Russia's population plays the game."

Lol. Come on man...
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