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[OSL] Semifinal 1 Fantasy vs. Bisu - Page 50

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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TheAZNChineseTiger
Profile Joined February 2009
Canada92 Posts
March 20 2009 21:44 GMT
#981
WOAH!!!!
WTF!!!!!
SlayerS_`BoxeR` FTW
Nick_54
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States2230 Posts
March 20 2009 21:47 GMT
#982
On March 21 2009 06:28 Sadness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2009 04:22 BisuBoi wrote:
Bisu, on the other hand, just looked lost. He's nowhere near S-class in PvT.


LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
OMFGOMFGOMFGOMFG
I can´t stop laughing!!!
HEUAHEAUHEUHAEUHEAUEHAUHEAUHEAUHEUAEHU


Look at his record against terran before this series. He just had a bad day against a teammate with a bunch of help from the maps. I mean honestly Stork got 3-0 steamrolled in a much worse fashion than this against Iris and everyone still agreed his pvt was S-class. In the current state of starcraft it is even hard for the best players to consistently win in the starleague format. Just look at what happened to Flash and Jaedong as well as Bisu.
Mooncat
Profile Joined October 2007
Germany1228 Posts
March 20 2009 21:59 GMT
#983
On March 21 2009 05:19 kazokun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2009 05:06 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Well..
This OSL final is pretty fucking uninteresting now -_-


On the contrary, I think this OSL just got really interesting.


Exactly. I really don't understand why people are for two names being put next to one another. If fantasy reaches the finals because he outplayed his opponent(s) he obviously deserves to be there. How does it make the finals any less interesting? Fantasy has proven to be well-rounded in every match-up. Let's just hope he can diversify his TvZ builds a little bit... :>

And to all those rabid Bisu fans blaming fantasy for kicking Bisu out of the OSL: You should rather blame Bisu for losing in the fashion he did. How can you blame a guy for wiping the floor with someone who made some terrible decisions?

Yes I know... Let the fans be fans... But seriously, try to be a liiiittle objective here and there.
"[Lee Young Ho] With this victory, you’ve risen to Bonjwa status."
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
March 20 2009 22:03 GMT
#984
Wow... I really didn't see that coming. What the hell? When I noticed there were only three games I thought ''As expected, Bisu raped him 3-0'', and then it's the complete opposite? I'm flabbergasted.

Fantasy can seem sooo bad sometimes, and other times (such as this series) he's just incredible.
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
[X]Ken_D
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
United States4650 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-20 22:12:39
March 20 2009 22:11 GMT
#985
Surprising results. What seem like a Bisu 3-0 became a Fantasy 3-0. With Terrans all falling to the 6 dragons, it's nice to see at least 1 Terran doing well.

It's too bad for Bisu the map pool is bad for pvt except Medusa.
Chupyoung
Return of the King
Tears of the Protoss
Medusa

Maps will be equally tough for Jaedong if he makes it to the final. Now that Bisu is out, this is Fantasy's OSL to take.
[X]Domain - I just do the website. Nothing more.
sung_moon
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10110 Posts
March 20 2009 22:13 GMT
#986
wow bisu... gotta check out the games to see if it was really close games or rape.
jaedong.... u got this
Forever Young
oatboy
Profile Joined December 2008
United States198 Posts
March 20 2009 22:16 GMT
#987
[B]
Maps will be equally tough for Jaedong if he makes it to the final. Now that Bisu is out, this is Fantasy's OSL to take.

Assuming it's jaedong, its hard to say it's somebody's OSL to take when the person you have to go through is jaedong.
imperfect
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada1652 Posts
March 20 2009 22:23 GMT
#988
please fantasy, you knocked out bisu, stopping a bisu vs jaedong finals

now beat jaedong's ass!
blind bisu free and anytime fanboy.
Tekin
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
2711 Posts
March 20 2009 22:27 GMT
#989
Damn my prediction was right 3-0 beesuit LOL wasup!
Cheers! //¯◡◡¯\\ 문채원 | 한지우 -___-
mog87
Profile Joined October 2008
United States1586 Posts
March 20 2009 23:23 GMT
#990
I wasn't surprised fantasy won, his tvp is sick, his overall style and strengths/weaknesses are actually similar to Mind, but 3-0 wasn't expected. I wouldnt call this an upset, but it was rape, fantasy was literally prepared for anything bisu had coming, in game 3 those harrass attempts began to look like utter desperation. Ah well finals should be interesting.
latent
Profile Joined March 2009
United States428 Posts
March 20 2009 23:25 GMT
#991
On March 21 2009 01:50 IdrA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2009 00:41 Mooncat wrote:
On March 21 2009 00:26 IdrA wrote:
On March 21 2009 00:08 Mooncat wrote:
On March 20 2009 23:50 IdrA wrote:
ya given the amount that he invested in it, 4 zeals 4 goons and a reaver, and the fact that fantasy opened fd and lost the tank and all the marines, the harass really should have done significant damage. he got a few tanks and forced scvs to pull, but really he didnt do any meaningful damage.

arbiter wasnt a bad choice. its a low resource map thats set up very well for timing pushes. that means terrans 99% gonna timing push and that if you break it you're 99% gonna win. expanding isnt the way to break pushes. he was too far behind to hold the push no matter what he did, but arbiter was his best bet. (just going 2 base 6 gate would be worthless since fantasy would see it and just not push, arbiter forces a reaction and tricks terran into thinking it widens the timing window)


Didn't do any meaningful damage? Are you kidding me? Fantasy had to defend with his SCVs and lost AT LEAST half of them in the process. In addition he lost at least 2-3 tanks, a lot of mining time, and some minor stuff. If I remember correctly there was also a reaver shot that killed another couple of SCVs later on. How can you call that anything but meaningful damage?

?
bisu spent 4 zeals and 4 goons to get that handful of tanks and the scv mining time. bisus expo started after his harass was cleared. he basically needed to kill a whole mineral line of scvs to have done meaningful damage. the zeal goon drop taking out tanks was only beneficial if it allowed the reaver to do damage. it didnt. when you have a full 2 base economy vs a probe cut 1 base economy you can replace your army much quicker than your opponent.
and no he didnt lose half his scvs in the process, just look at his mineral lines after he stabilizes.



Watch Jon747's youtube VOD. Between about 9:05 and 9:18 you can clearly see how many SCVs are dying to the goons and zealots. At 9:18 you can also get a glimpse at fantasy's mineral line. There's only a skeleton crew of SCVs mining, with basically no additional SCVs from the "defense force" left to resume mining.

The next glance you get at the mineral line is at 11:12, where the SCV count STILL doesn't look like it's supposed to. Only a few seconds later Bisu gets off a reaver shot killing another 5 SCVs.

he did get more scvs than i thought but fantasy was still massively ahead once he put down the reaver harass, they had equivalent supplies by the time bisu's exp was up (protoss outa be significantly ahead in supply at that point) and they were on equal bases.

you're underestimating just how much damage bisu had to do to make his investment worthwhile, and he didnt do that much.


Yeah actually I think Bisu didn't do *quite* enough damage. But by destroying those tanks, along with about 13+ SCVs, he effectively slowed Fantasy's push a great deal. Those early tanks are extremely important. The thing that bothers me though is that his game sense seemed just a tad off. He should have realized the natural was wide open for a reaver drop, but he didn't even fly his shuttle there to check. He wasted several minutes flying around the main, only to drop right onto a mine. On the other hand he could have just skipped the reaver tech and just expand asap. That would have put him at a much larger advantage. Then again I think that's simply easier to see in retrospect. Probably he had planned from the beginning to go for a reaver and double shuttle attack.
Moo
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
March 20 2009 23:35 GMT
#992
On March 21 2009 04:22 BisuBoi wrote:
Bisu, on the other hand, just looked lost. He's nowhere near S-class in PvT.


Orly?

Considering your ID, it's very ironic for you to say that.
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
epicdoom
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States489 Posts
March 21 2009 00:04 GMT
#993
fantasy harass, too beast...
Like he played Amazingly, esp that drop of goliaths to take out the one shuttle SO GOOD, that was the highlight of the game for me

konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66357 Posts
March 21 2009 00:04 GMT
#994
On March 21 2009 04:22 BisuBoi wrote:
Bisu, on the other hand, just looked lost. He's nowhere near S-class in PvT.

I beg to differ. Who else, besides Jangbi, comes even close to his PvT?
POGGERS
AzureEye
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1360 Posts
March 21 2009 00:11 GMT
#995
On March 21 2009 09:04 konadora wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2009 04:22 BisuBoi wrote:
Bisu, on the other hand, just looked lost. He's nowhere near S-class in PvT.

I beg to differ. Who else, besides Jangbi, comes even close to his PvT?


Top 3 PvT

Stork Bisu Jangbi

at the moment
Terrans who whine: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=107788
Frits
Profile Joined March 2003
11782 Posts
March 21 2009 00:14 GMT
#996
Maybe we'll finally have a good TvZ finals, flash vs jd and forgg vs jd were both terrible, last good one was Iris vs ggplay.
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66357 Posts
March 21 2009 00:20 GMT
#997
I'm watching the game right now... wow. Fantasy's play was a hybrid of Boxer's dropship/vulture play and iloveoov's hidden expo play.
POGGERS
baubo
Profile Joined September 2008
China3370 Posts
March 21 2009 00:27 GMT
#998
On March 21 2009 06:47 Nick_54 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2009 06:28 Sadness wrote:
On March 21 2009 04:22 BisuBoi wrote:
Bisu, on the other hand, just looked lost. He's nowhere near S-class in PvT.


LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
OMFGOMFGOMFGOMFG
I can´t stop laughing!!!
HEUAHEAUHEUHAEUHEAUEHAUHEAUHEAUHEUAEHU


Look at his record against terran before this series. He just had a bad day against a teammate with a bunch of help from the maps. I mean honestly Stork got 3-0 steamrolled in a much worse fashion than this against Iris and everyone still agreed his pvt was S-class. In the current state of starcraft it is even hard for the best players to consistently win in the starleague format. Just look at what happened to Flash and Jaedong as well as Bisu.


Are you really comparing Flash's specific anti-Stork builds in the Bacchus OSL to what Fantasy did? They're totally different things.

Bisu has the 3rd best PvT right now behind Stork and Jangbi. Whether that's S-Class or not, I guess it depends on how far you stretch the definition.
Meh
BisuBoi
Profile Joined February 2009
United States350 Posts
March 21 2009 00:28 GMT
#999
On March 21 2009 06:33 Jayme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2009 06:28 Sadness wrote:
On March 21 2009 04:22 BisuBoi wrote:
Bisu, on the other hand, just looked lost. He's nowhere near S-class in PvT.


LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
OMFGOMFGOMFGOMFG
I can´t stop laughing!!!
HEUAHEAUHEUHAEUHEAUEHAUHEAUHEAUHEUAEHU


Yea that comment was pretty terrible considering Bisu has the 2nd best PvT in the world only behind Jangbi. It's solid S-class, you just can't win them all.


I'm going to just ignore the immature retardation of Sadness' post and respond to yours Jayme. Why do you say Bisu has 2nd best PvT? Is it just the recent hot streak he's been on that makes you think that? Sure, he beat Flash, but there were a lot of factors in that victory and it was far from being a dominating performance.

And going by pure statistics, both Samsung Toss absolutely crush Bisu in terms of PvT. Jangbi's got over 70% PvT and Stork's hovering around 67%. Bisu is below 60%. Considering Stork's played even MORE games than Bisu, and just last OSL beat the SAME damn guy that just wiped the floor with Bisu's face, in the finals no less. I don't think it's a stretch to say Stork's got a better PvT. (And he won in a very dominating fashion. The two games he lost were build order losses where the opponent just plain read his strategy and raped). There's a reason for distinguishing between A-class and S-class. Only so many players can be S-class, and right now, Bisu is not one of them. It's just like saying Zero has great ZvZ, but he's not S-Class. Only JD and Lux are.
Frits
Profile Joined March 2003
11782 Posts
March 21 2009 00:34 GMT
#1000
Funny how someone who calls himself BisuBoi is argueing that Bisu isn't S-class PvT. (Which he very very very obviously is and only a complete idiot wouldn't agree on.)
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