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How to Watch:
http://live.plu.cn/hanguo/
1. Open in Internet Explorer
2. Click UUSEE in the little box
3. Install the plugin
4. Reopen the page and click UUSEE again
(Thanks, Realpenguin)
VLC Stream, courtesy of Corinthos
mmsh://75.126.18.2:1588
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wtf daum sport doesn't have it? I was up this late doing a paper I may as well watch.
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51454 Posts
wut gom stopped showing mbc games now?
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On December 04 2008 18:30 GTR-2-Go wrote:
wut gom stopped showing mbc games now?
omg i cant find it on GOM
panicpanicpanicpanicpanic
(secret stream of awesomeness: http://live.plu.cn/hanguo/ )
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So i guess yaoyuan is my only hope :/
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yaoyuan and daum player work like shit on my connection, and i don't see it on daum sport. hate my life.
On the plus side there is nothing like July with a single longstem rose.... sigh
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Noooo, I need to watch Bul_T Fail epicly
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GOGOGOGO Forog!!! (&July ofc...)
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On December 04 2008 18:32 Realpenguin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 18:30 GTR-2-Go wrote:
wut gom stopped showing mbc games now? omg i cant find it on GOM panicpanicpanicpanicpanic (secret stream of awesomeness: http://live.plu.cn/hanguo/ )
this doesnt work for me, do you have to install something?
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You have to install UUSee they will link to the download and it's easy to follow.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
what?
no gom?
no daum?
whats going on?
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
cute, the plu people are blatantly stealing our images  (and not even rehosting them)
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Yeah... ForGG and July easy.
Although I suppose nothing's for sure after BeSt got knocked out so early.
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HOW TO USE http://live.plu.cn/hanguo/
1. Open in Internet Explorer
2. Click UUSEE in the little box
3. Install the plugin
4. Reopen the page and click UUSEE again
These guys always broadcast MSL games. For the later matches in MSL (around quarterfinals) they start giving commentary in Chinese.
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ForGG looking badass in his booth my sound is ahead of my video at plu-site -,-tt
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Daum pot player is playing it... with insane lag though TT~
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Thanks a bunch Realpenguin!
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need VLC link to watch 
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Easy predictions: fOrGG and July.
Otherwise I'll be pretty damn surprised.
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9070 Posts
forGG is playing firefist , I dont know which is the map, the zerg player is doing a 3 hatch mutas but that all what I saw
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Firefist is getting his spire up, fOrGG getting his academy.
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9070 Posts
firefist has a bunch of mutalisks and a control group of zergling, also trying to sneak an expo in the bottom left corner
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9070 Posts
forGG is on two base already right? firefist has his first hydralisks out
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I'll leave the LR to you disciple, thanks.
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9070 Posts
mutas killing some marines in the center of the map but I'm not sure about the outcome of the battle
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why isnt this on daum?!!
strange T_T
also, where's the UUSSE???
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Thx Realpenguin, stream is awesome.
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9070 Posts
suddenly somehow forgg is in firefists main with a small group of marines and bunch of medics, maybe a drop or smth? FF cleaning it out with like 3 lurkers. the stream jumps and all i can see is a slideshow of random moments, FF has his def.den up, forGG attack seemed to massive, because FF's hive in half its health. the terran player is gathering huge ball of MnM in front of FFs natural but its not attacking yet. ForGG finally scouted the hidden expo in bottom left
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whoa nice defense
might have lost too many drones though...
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forgg going for sunken break even though there is lurkers!. Looks very sucesful TT
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Haha my sound is one minnute ahead of the video... anyone having the same problem?
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Awesome timing from fOrGG on this attack, FireFist holds for now.
Comes in with reinforcements and takes the spire out!
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United States13143 Posts
I just got the stream working, and forgg just plowed through firefist sunks and got an infantry group to the main where it died
a second group just took out the spire though
firefirst has a hive
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CA10828 Posts
sunk break with 2 groups of M&M, drones at nat get raped, lotta lurkers killed, spire down. 1/1 ups on rines.
firefist defends but heavy losses.
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Whos the sponsor for this MSL?
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Corinthos
Canada1842 Posts
mbc survior vlc stream:
mmsh://75.126.18.2:1588
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The girl commentator sounds hot
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Dammit, sounds like they turned down the Korean commentary and now the Chinese commentary is kicking in. It's just not the same.
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fireist with hidden exp and defilers
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forgg found firefist's hidden third, defiler mound going to go down, looks real bad.
oh man forgg moving out with huge army, dark swarm only thing keeping zerg alive
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On December 04 2008 18:52 Corinthos wrote:
mbc survior vlc stream:
mmsh://75.126.18.2:1588
Thanks so much!
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On December 04 2008 18:52 Corinthos wrote:
mbc survior vlc stream:
mmsh://75.126.18.2:1588
Thank you ty =] lub juu
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On December 04 2008 18:52 Corinthos wrote:
mbc survior vlc stream:
mmsh://75.126.18.2:1588
I feel the need to confess my love to you.
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9070 Posts
On December 04 2008 18:52 Corinthos wrote:
mbc survior vlc stream:
mmsh://75.126.18.2:1588
You have like a 10 beers from me
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Zerg looks like in trouble ;o
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On December 04 2008 18:52 Corinthos wrote:
mbc survior vlc stream:
mmsh://75.126.18.2:1588
You are a livesaver.
Big thanks!
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Who the hell is talking over everything lol
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CA10828 Posts
ugh i don't like the chinese commentators
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Man, nothing personal, but I HATE the Chinese commentary. It's just so lifeless.
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nice stream!
hope it wont get picked up by work!!!
<3
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wtf forgg not killing the hatch even though it has like 50 health
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UUSee stream sucks
I hear someone talking over the korean commentators!
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9070 Posts
FF is getting his spire up again
forGG raping shit all over the map, great multitasking FF is falling apart
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forgg controlling this with an ironfist
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The girl talking loves Nada
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CA10828 Posts
oh hey thanks corinthos !
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VLC Corinthos* is the man!
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United States13143 Posts
On December 04 2008 18:55 KreaGata wrote:
Man, nothing personal, but I HATE the Chinese commentary. It's just so lifeless.
definitely this.
On another note, I'm pretty sure firefist is going to lose.
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omg the chinese commentatoers are sleeping while talking
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ForGG's micro is terrible...
But wow, his macro freaking beastly...
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Wow, fOrGG actually showing decent micro in this game.
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CA10828 Posts
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Burned Toast
Canada2040 Posts
It IS on Daum... look again.
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CA10828 Posts
wtf these chinese people still talk during commercials
i'm sorry but i can't stand the nasal intonations T_T
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If I've understood correctly, chinese commenators are required to sound like that, as they have this weird notion that showing emotion during the cast is unprofessional. The chinese commentator who covered the last world cup finals apparently got fired after he forgot to hold himself back and just let loose.
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It's on Daum, but good luck getting a solid stream off there.
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On December 04 2008 19:01 Burned Toast wrote:
It IS on Daum... look again.
Yeah, on daumplayer. That's of no use to anyone, though.
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On December 04 2008 18:59 Solinren wrote:
July lost weight??
lol wut?
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yeah artosis is in that commercial
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Wow, the commentary sucks. Not just the lifeless manner in which they commentate, but they're not even that knowledgeable.
Although it's kind of funny to hear all the units and buildings said in Chinese for the first time. Sound so weird...
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On December 04 2008 19:03 o3.power91 wrote:lol wut?
The girl was saying "who is that?"
Guy : "that's JulyZerg"
girl : "oh he looks like he lost weigh. or maybe it's the camera angle"
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How can you have commentating without emotion? It's so lifeless >___>. Unless you have a british/UK accent, then I dont mind as much (e.g. in football where someone scores and the commentator analyzes the play and says 'thats brilliant' or w/e. Still some emotion there though
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On December 04 2008 19:04 Solinren wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 19:03 o3.power91 wrote:On December 04 2008 18:59 Solinren wrote:
July lost weight?? lol wut? The girl was saying "who is that?" Guy : "that's JulyZerg" girl : "oh he looks like he lost weigh. or maybe it's the camera angle"
oh lol. im not watching 
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Jesus!
Those damn chinks are ruining my stream! Just now one of the started screaming and it scared the shit out of me!
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On December 04 2008 19:04 Solinren wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 19:03 o3.power91 wrote:On December 04 2008 18:59 Solinren wrote:
July lost weight?? lol wut? The girl was saying "who is that?" Guy : "that's JulyZerg" girl : "oh he looks like he lost weigh. or maybe it's the camera angle"
Lol she doesn't know who July is? =D
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That's a cool intro for the MST they've got.
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Mute powaaa. 10x Corinthos!
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Bul_T is gonna get raped^^
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On December 04 2008 19:05 Tensai176 wrote:
How can you have commentating without emotion? It's so lifeless >___>. Unless you have a british/UK accent, then I dont mind as much (e.g. in football where someone scores and the commentator analyzes the play and says 'thats brilliant' or w/e. Still some emotion there though
Ya but when sombody scores they go, GOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL.
Just like PLAGUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU.
These commentators make me mute.
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On December 04 2008 19:06 Elsi wrote:
Bul_T is gonna get raped^^
I actually feel sorry for him, he looked kinda nice before the game.
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51454 Posts
these chinese people suck leave it to the koreans
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The Chinese voices scared the shit out of me, omg...
But no, Let's go Bul_T!
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Korean commentators are the best in the world.
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On December 04 2008 19:07 Shikyo wrote:
Korean commentators are the best in the world.
cuz they have 8 years experience ?!?!
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On December 04 2008 19:05 Tensai176 wrote:
How can you have commentating without emotion? It's so lifeless >___>. Unless you have a british/UK accent, then I dont mind as much (e.g. in football where someone scores and the commentator analyzes the play and says 'thats brilliant' or w/e. Still some emotion there though
Haha love it, the witty casual commentating of the english football.
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rofl. I like how Nal_ra always just sit there and state at the camera when he is not talkin-- oh shit, the mandarin voices just popped out of nowhere. Scared the shit out of me. (My volume was turned up to hear the koreans)
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The Korean commentators' excitement really translates well, regardless if you can understand it or not, and makes the viewing experience all the better. Without it, I just feel hollow and empty. Much like the Chinese commentary.
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lol I love the fact that ever since the very beginning of MSL, they've been dressing each of their commentators in a different colour.
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Look at those killer stats.
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Oh crap... it's friggin Byzantium.
Zerg graveyard right here guys.
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Haha Doctor.K.... . .. . . . wtf
I bet Doctor.K will have his ass handled to him, no matter the map.
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CA10828 Posts
i mean sure if the precedent was this lifeless commentary then by all means do it as well
but when the international leaders in eSports, OGN and MBGgame commentators, go crazy every single broadcast with a lot of excitement wouldn't it make sense to emulate it?
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do the chinese commentators know what the bisu build is?
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On December 04 2008 19:09 Orome wrote:
lol I love the fact that ever since the very beginning of MSL, they've been dressing each of their commentators in a different colour.
Color coded for our convenience
like Power Rangers
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On December 04 2008 19:08 Elsi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 19:07 Shikyo wrote:
Korean commentators are the best in the world. cuz they have 8 years experience ?!?!
?
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CA10828 Posts
question for non-korean/chinese speakers
is one language easier on the ears than the other for you guys?
i have a biased opinion so i'm thinking maybe i'm just weird or something.
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CA10828 Posts
lol wtf did she just mention dong bang shin ki?
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chinese sounds a lot more rough and aggressive
which is saying a lot considering I think korean is a fairly rough and aggressive language
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On December 04 2008 18:54 WingSandrockX wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 18:52 Corinthos wrote:
mbc survior vlc stream:
mmsh://75.126.18.2:1588 WINNER! THANKS!
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No offense, but Korean is MUCH easier on my ears. Chinese pronunciation and phrasing is very nasally, which my ears don't agree with.
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On December 04 2008 19:06 DM20 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 19:05 Tensai176 wrote:
How can you have commentating without emotion? It's so lifeless >___>. Unless you have a british/UK accent, then I dont mind as much (e.g. in football where someone scores and the commentator analyzes the play and says 'thats brilliant' or w/e. Still some emotion there though Ya but when sombody scores they go, GOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL. Just like PLAGUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU. These commentators make me mute.
exactly my thoughs..
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Korean is clearly better for the ears although they don't use the IDs of the gamers so I only know the most famous names. But it's the better language for eyes.
But moving on... 0-9. Will the trend change here?
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i have to agree with you there, even though i'm chinese;P
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On December 04 2008 19:12 LosingID8 wrote:
question for non-korean/chinese speakers
is one language easier on the ears than the other for you guys?
i have a biased opinion so i'm thinking maybe i'm just weird or something.
I think I got used to the Korean commentators in the last 8 months and I never really listened to the Chinese commentators so I could be biased as well. On the side note they suck hard.
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yeah a korean stream would be way cooler
this will be interesting considering that bul_t prolly used to play against july alot while they were on the same team! i wonder what the in house record between these two was.
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Incoming, July the first ZvP win on Byzantium!
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
chinese is annoying as hell to listen to jesus
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Bul_T will win this, he trains everyday with every zerg on skt.
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God that female commentator is annoying the hell out of me. This must be the first time where I would actually be glad if I DIDN'T understand a language in order to heighten my viewing experience.
The guy seems to be pretty good. But he needs to ditch her.
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still not started?
yawn yawn yawn
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On December 04 2008 19:12 LosingID8 wrote:
question for non-korean/chinese speakers
is one language easier on the ears than the other for you guys?
i have a biased opinion so i'm thinking maybe i'm just weird or something.
I love the sound of Japanese and Korean, but don't really like Chinese. Too nasally.
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On December 04 2008 19:12 LosingID8 wrote:
question for non-korean/chinese speakers
is one language easier on the ears than the other for you guys?
i have a biased opinion so i'm thinking maybe i'm just weird or something.
korean is easier, chinese people sound angry and sad
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I much prefer chinese, but this guy seriously has issues speaking properly. I'd rather listen to german than this fellow.
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On December 04 2008 19:12 LosingID8 wrote:
question for non-korean/chinese speakers
is one language easier on the ears than the other for you guys?
i have a biased opinion so i'm thinking maybe i'm just weird or something.
Korean all the way. The chinese puts me to sleep -_-. Not to mention they spend half of the time talking pointless crap or dude explaining to girl totally obvious things
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On December 04 2008 19:12 LosingID8 wrote:
question for non-korean/chinese speakers
is one language easier on the ears than the other for you guys?
i have a biased opinion so i'm thinking maybe i'm just weird or something.
Well I bet everyone is used to the korean language in this context. But I like how in the chinese language sounds, the words melt togather
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On December 04 2008 19:12 LosingID8 wrote:
question for non-korean/chinese speakers
is one language easier on the ears than the other for you guys?
i have a biased opinion so i'm thinking maybe i'm just weird or something.
I actually think it is easier on the ears than Korean as far as conversation goes. It's got less... Impact?... Likeee... It flows better? I guess? But impact is good when I'm watching starcraft, and what I'm used to... and these people have no vocal personality, like the koreans do.
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On December 04 2008 19:15 baubo wrote:God that female commentator is annoying the hell out of me. This must be the first time where I would actually be glad if I DIDN'T understand a language in order to heighten my viewing experience. The guy seems to be pretty good. But he needs to ditch her.
Don't worry, it will probably just be worse if you couldn't understand. I'm just trying to filter them away and listen to the korean commentating.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Mute + Corinthos = Win
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is this canto? it's much harsher than mandarin, which is still harsher than korean i think
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CA10828 Posts
i really like the survivor intro (i think someone mentioned this already)
simple but cool
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id say july gained weight
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Finally, here we go.
<edit>
July top right
Bul_T bottom right
Ovie going in right direction.
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OK I can't take it anymore. Mute + music gogo
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It's not just you guys that find the Chinese commentary terrible. I can understand chinese, and I'd still rather listen to the korean one instead.
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its mandarin. they suck at commentating but atleast i understand it xD :D
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On December 04 2008 19:16 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 19:15 baubo wrote:God that female commentator is annoying the hell out of me. This must be the first time where I would actually be glad if I DIDN'T understand a language in order to heighten my viewing experience. The guy seems to be pretty good. But he needs to ditch her. Don't worry, it will probably just be worse if you couldn't understand. I'm just trying to filter them away and listen to the korean commentating.
Yeah, but it's much easier to filter out noise when you don't understand it.
Anyway, if July can't win ZvP against Bul_T on Byzantium, then future zergs should just forfeit immediately in all subsequent ZvPs.
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On December 04 2008 19:19 KreaGata wrote:
Anyone need a LR?
that'd be nice, i have a mac now and apparently can't get anything to work...
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CA10828 Posts
On December 04 2008 19:19 KreaGata wrote:
Anyone need a LR?
LR is good just for people reading this thread if they weren't able to catch the matches and don't have time to watch the VODs
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Burned Toast
Canada2040 Posts
missed the beginning: did he make any lings ?
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July went with an aggressive opener, pool before hatch (not sure on the timing), and bul_t went with a forge at his natural, and cannons before nexus when scouting out July.
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51454 Posts
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Their commentating is just bad. They noticed that july expanded like 20 seconds after the fact.
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CA10828 Posts
On December 04 2008 19:22 GTR-2-Go wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen, the SC2GG of Chinese commentators!
hey come on now, sc2gg isn't this bad
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damn. I am fluent in Korean and i have to hear Chinese? this is annoying.
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Burned Toast
Canada2040 Posts
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Bul_T takes 4 probes off in response to seeing July's lings, and July starts his lair.
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On December 04 2008 19:22 GTR-2-Go wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen, the SC2GG of Chinese commentators!
i am laughing
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2 hatch muta incominggggggggggg
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Stargate and Spire on the way for both players.
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Burned Toast
Canada2040 Posts
damn these mutas can't do shit !
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On December 04 2008 19:22 philsa wrote:
damn. I am fluent in Korean and i have to hear Chinese? this is annoying.
Find a Korean stream. There is one on Daum.
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oh crap i'm ahead of you guys?
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oooo the doctor doesn't know that july is a sneaky mahfokker
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bul_t posturing to move out of his base with a few zealots and a goon. His first corsair pops out, and 6 mutas are on the way for July.
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Bul_T Looks like he's going for Sair/DT.
July opts for Spire. Two hatch spire.
BUL_T needs to put down cannons while getting an archon perhaps.
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Burned Toast
Canada2040 Posts
Dt attack failed ! Oh wait, am I spoiling ?
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Mutas out for July, hovering around Bul_T's base. Bul_T has cannons so he cant do anything. Scourge pop for july.
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lol his name is really DoctorK?
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4 Scourge. JULY GOES IN. EEE HAN TIMING. ONE CORSAIR SURVIVES!!!
Bul_T repels mutalisk off! July is in bad shape.
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july lost all mutas except 2
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July.... very poor^^
tried low eco allin muta!~
failed badly
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Awwww i'm probably wayyyyyyy behind you guys T_T
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bul_t has three cannons at his main + the corsair, wards of July's initial harass.
July moves in to kill the cannons with his mutas, scourges one corsair, does relatively little damage.
2 DTs out for bul_t en route to July's base; they kill a bunch of his lings.
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if ur on the stream (the mmsh-one) u can talk, otherwise ur way ahead :/
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I'll stop LR-ing due to the fact that I'm way behind =(
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I don't want one more protoss in msl, the doctor has to go
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Burned Toast
Canada2040 Posts
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July is being really sloppy with his mutas, just lost a bunch to three corsairs.
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Well July pops more mutalisk but fail to do anything with them. Bul_T is adding gates while July is still on two base. I think Bul_t is waiting for the 2 archon timing with zealots. That will end it.
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July... just isn't what he used to be.
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july was screwed as soon as bul_t scouted him - his defense was muta proof.
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Archons and corsair chasing mutalisk from the base and bul_t goes with zlots and 2 archons. This looks like it will end the game.
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I really think July needs to abandon his mutas. Bul_t already has archons out in addition to sairs.
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and there the gg is. Looks like Bul_T vs. ForGG?
Epic
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On December 04 2008 19:28 baubo wrote:July... just isn't what he used to be.
Yea long time ago, the osl was some freak miracle and a bag ull o luck.
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ALMOST KIM TAEK YONG HWAITING! nice game by bul_T
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July GG's after trying to engage bul_t's force.
That was pathetic, July.
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It is not map's fault that zerg is losing.It is zergs fault cause he is losing.
Do not blame the map.Blame July!!!
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On November 30 2008 06:27 Realpenguin wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2008 01:45 Kuja900 wrote:
lol as a july fan my face lit up when i clicked this page, bul_t is totally screwed and first group ^_^ I'm calling the upset. BUL_T YEEEEA I hope magma makes it far, he's on my fantasy team.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=83088¤tpage=2#35
called it before anyone else
On December 04 2008 19:29 simcar wrote:
It is not map's fault that zerg is losing.It is zergs fault cause he is losing.
Do not blame the map.Blame July!!!
exhibit A: rabid Best fanboy
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On December 04 2008 19:22 GTR-2-Go wrote:
Ladies and gentlemen, the SC2GG of Chinese commentators!
You know nothing, hater fanboy. SC2GG is way way way better.
On the other hand, 0-10.
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9070 Posts
nothing unexpected from July... 2 hatch all-in muta, some times it works, some times it doesnt
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ForGG -> dr.k
July -> FF
July -> dr.k
REVENGE and no more random protoss in msl
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Burned Toast
Canada2040 Posts
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1584 Posts
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yeah i mean i really enjoy watching that girl's dancing butt
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On December 04 2008 19:29 simcar wrote:
It is not map's fault that zerg is losing.It is zergs fault cause he is losing.
Do not blame the map.Blame July!!!
Yep, 0-10 is totally not the maps fault.
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DoktorK has teammate : Bisu, he knows July
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fOrGG will probably destroy Bul_T, and July will knock Firefist out, allowing July to get a shot at revenge.
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On December 04 2008 19:31 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 19:29 simcar wrote:
It is not map's fault that zerg is losing.It is zergs fault cause he is losing.
Do not blame the map.Blame July!!! Yep, 0-10 is totally not the maps fault.
Watch that games,ok?
I've watched all that games.
JD lost to Free cause of all in that map.
Now July. Nothing special.
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On December 04 2008 19:31 simcar wrote:
DoktorK has teammate : Bisu, he knows July
You mean, map = bysantium. Wow, these bisu fanboys ... aargh.
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This is the MSL, July only even came to the game because the STX coach was driving and he fell asleep in the van.
Yeah that was pretty over when the mutas were first held off, damn.
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On December 04 2008 19:32 KreaGata wrote:
fOrGG will probably destroy Bul_T, and July will knock Firefist out, allowing July to get a shot at revenge.
this is a good post
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On December 04 2008 19:33 simcar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 19:31 Shikyo wrote:On December 04 2008 19:29 simcar wrote:
It is not map's fault that zerg is losing.It is zergs fault cause he is losing.
Do not blame the map.Blame July!!! Yep, 0-10 is totally not the maps fault. Watch that games,ok? I've watched all that games. JD lost to Free cause of all in that map. Now July. Nothing special.
they're going all in BECAUSE of the map
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Doctor.K / Bul_T vs. ForGG
.K_T vs. GG
It's the battle of the letters ;o
Bul_T Should go low-eco game to exploit ForGG's micro.
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United States13143 Posts
well, at least there are only going to be three more PvZs on Byzantium 2 in Survivor.
Hopefully the MSL will replace it for the MSL proper.
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Woo Liquibet BULL_T PREVAILS!
2/2 so far.
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Why do z's aways play this map 2 hatch mutas. I can understand that it's a horrible map for zvp, but July should be able to overcome that map imbalances. He is playing Bul_T. I think he had a better chance playing a normal game than 2 hatch muta on a map that it's expected.
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On December 04 2008 19:33 simcar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 19:31 Shikyo wrote:On December 04 2008 19:29 simcar wrote:
It is not map's fault that zerg is losing.It is zergs fault cause he is losing.
Do not blame the map.Blame July!!! Yep, 0-10 is totally not the maps fault. Watch that games,ok? I've watched all that games. JD lost to Free cause of all in that map. Now July. Nothing special.
Have you ever thought about why they would all-in on that map? I've watched all the games as well.
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what makes byzantium so impossible for zerg v protoss? is it the distant third + narrow corridor to the nat?
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On December 04 2008 19:34 Tensai176 wrote:
Doctor.K / Bul_T vs. ForGG
.K_T vs. GG
It's the battle of the letters ;o
Bul_T Should go low-eco game to exploit ForGG's micro.
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Russian Federation1381 Posts
On December 04 2008 19:33 simcar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 19:31 Shikyo wrote:On December 04 2008 19:29 simcar wrote:
It is not map's fault that zerg is losing.It is zergs fault cause he is losing.
Do not blame the map.Blame July!!! Yep, 0-10 is totally not the maps fault. Watch that games,ok? I've watched all that games. JD lost to Free cause of all in that map. Now July. Nothing special.
0-10 > your opinion, seriously think about it.
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Ah, a short sweet reprieve alone with the Korean commentators. Lulling me into a false sense of security, then the Chinese commentary will brutally take my solace away.
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Oh wow, Byzantium 2 loves fucking up ZvP!
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Why didn't they remove Byzantiium from the maps, what are they thinking? I mean, something like a 6-15 map is okay still, but when it's impossible to win...
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Replay showing July's extreme lack of good judgement.
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Mai Streammm!!!!
It's back.
What time is it over there for you? Who is staying up till 6-7am to see Bul_T kick some ass.
My SKT T1 Fanboy-ism knows no limits.
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ForGG will do a staredown on doc.k and it will be over, scarylooks vs kid-random
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I don't think this game was about the map that was some bad decision making from july. He basically suicided his mutas against the corsairs, it was almost like he wanted to lose.
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It's 2:40 AM for me. I'm up late writing a speech and studying for math, but the MST is a nice break from all that.
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On December 04 2008 19:39 Tensai176 wrote:
Mai Streammm!!!!
It's back.
What time is it over there for you? Who is staying up till 6-7am to see Bul_T kick some ass.
My SKT T1 Fanboy-ism knows no limits.
It's morning, the games that start 18:30 KST will start 10:30 here in sweden.
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12 or 14 cc, no scout for forgg yet
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On December 04 2008 19:40 lisakki wrote:
I don't think this game was about the map that was some bad decision making from july. He basically suicided his mutas against the corsairs, it was almost like he wanted to lose.
His build decided that. July's timing window was getting really really narrow and either it was that time or no-time. It was unlucky for july that Bul_T scouted that.
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On December 04 2008 19:41 traced wrote:
12 or 14 cc, no scout for forgg yet
now your ahead
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On December 04 2008 19:41 traced wrote:
12 or 14 cc, no scout for forgg yet
How are you so far ahead? T____T
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Your stream seems to be ahead of mine traced, so you can take the LR.
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chinese voice overs on the VLC?
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Mine just hit the minute mark >.>
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forgg going 2 fac versus the fast nexus. bult has 2 gates and a core getting range
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CA10828 Posts
oh god chinese voices are back
i was enjoying hearing korean analysis during the replay and stuff...
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On December 04 2008 19:37 KreaGata wrote:
Ah, a short sweet reprieve alone with the Korean commentators. Lulling me into a false sense of security, then the Chinese commentary will brutally take my solace away.
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Shite, gonna take a break from posting then. I wanna watch this game.
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A Yellow-esque front lurker break would have been less predictable and more fun.
Can someone explain to this humble noob why the map is so imba?
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oh i'm not sure, i'm just watching it on yaoyuan
machine shop spinning for forgg. has a tank and vulture out, staying in his base for now because bul_t has his units at the nat. 3 tanks 3 vults now
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forgg moving out 3 tanks, 4 vults, 4 marines, something like 6 dragoons, bult defending on the bridge, robo warping in, looks like forgg can't break through - tries to sneak vults by but goons body block them.
forgg setting up shop behind the bridges, support bay warping in, tanks moving up on one of the bridges - reaver should be out soon
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gosu control from bul imo
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bul_t loading up zealot bombs, takes out all of the tanks and most of the vultures it looks like
forgg did manage to sneak a vulture in and take out three probes or so
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wow.. bul_T whipped out the big cock today and he is ready to share O.O
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I don't want one more protoss random in msl :/
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yeah bul_t microing really well
forgg has taken his natural, bul_t moving up with all of his dragoons and an observer - has shuttle with a reaver and zealots disrupting the ramp, preventing reinforcement - wow he's playing awesome, great reaver shuttle micro to take out a tank.
a control group of goons in the nat, forgg using lots of scvs in a last ditch effort to clear it out and....succeeds, wow. but 5 more goons stream in, this might be it
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Damn, trace's stream is really far ahead of mine! I'll just come back here when the game's over. The LR is appreciated, though, thanks.
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forgg probably lost like 1/3-1/2 of his scvs and a lot of tanks, but hasn't broken yet. has two tanks or so on the high ground. bul_t still presuring with goons, keeps getting them surrounded while taking out all the tanks, good micro from both actually.
oh yeah bul_t has taken his 3rd, maynarding probes over
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pretty much a constant attack - there's like no way forgg can come back, bul_t has added his reaver, killed tons of probes, tanks.... forgg finally taps out
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On December 04 2008 19:53 traced wrote:
pretty much a constant attack - there's like no way forgg can come back, bul_t has added his reaver, killed tons of probes, tanks.... forgg finally taps out
ypu a re ahead like shiiiieeeaaat
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BulT went 14 Nexus,after he raped ForGG.
Good Job Doktor
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this is total destruction, wow
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Way to earn the title of 'Captain', Bul_T, haha.
Looks like someone unexpected is going home today.
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YES SKT T1!!!!!!!!
I think Bul_T's been getting some lessons from IntoTheRainbow XD
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On December 04 2008 19:53 Solinren wrote:
Idle probes. lol
better idle probes than no probes
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CA10828 Posts
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
loool and the first player to advance into the MSL is a protoss!!!
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fOrGG definitely stayed in the game a bit on the long side. Bul_T played that surprisingly well. He pulls off the upset and moves on!
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Nicely done. ForGG had some good SCV defense, but he was too behind after the 2 fact failed.
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Kentor
United States5784 Posts
wow cant wait to see the vods.
doctor k!
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1584 Posts
i knew I could count on the doctor
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On December 04 2008 19:56 Plexa wrote:
loool and the first player to advance into the MSL is a protoss!!!
Oh by the love of god.
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9070 Posts
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Lol I loved some predictions. "This is a 3-way group. Bul_T is just completely outclassed."
ForGG had some awesome defending. I'd say him and Flash in his prime are the best terrans at defending something like that and then coming back out of death's arms. But that was just too much even for ForGG.
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The doctors in the house, too bad July cant get into MSL with ForGG being a big wall , July might even lose to FireFist
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Nice play from bul_t. This could very well mean both zergs getting kicked out of this group.
Well, so much for the "zerg comeback" of the prelims.
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if this guy could play always like this... poor forgg those bridges are really a key part of the map.
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Lineage 2 is still alive o.O lol!
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On December 04 2008 19:57 Shikyo wrote:
ForGG had some awesome defending. I'd say him and Flash in his prime are the best terrans at defending something like that and then coming back out of death's arms. But that was just too much even for ForGG.
If by best, you mean almost as good as Oov, then I agree :D
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god forgg is 1-9 against protoss in his last 10.
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On December 04 2008 19:58 malongo wrote:
if this guy could play always like this... poor forgg those bridges are really a key part of the map.
those bridges combined with mines/tanks almost gave him a early win..
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On December 04 2008 19:58 zgl wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 19:57 Shikyo wrote:
ForGG had some awesome defending. I'd say him and Flash in his prime are the best terrans at defending something like that and then coming back out of death's arms. But that was just too much even for ForGG. If by best, you mean almost as good as Oov, then I agree :D
Oh of course, I meant current terrans. 2004-2006 or so Oov definitely.
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No but seriously whats with the sporadic bursts of loud chinese....
It's like *Silence* THEN BAM!
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That's why it's been muted for a long time already.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
i SWEAR i see the TLPD protoss image in the MST intro lol
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July vs Firefist, hope FireFist will rape
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Bul_T didn't really make any mistakes that game. Pretty surprising to be honest. Maybe he couldn't handle pressure before and got over it?
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On December 04 2008 20:06 Shikyo wrote:
Bul_T didn't really make any mistakes that game. Pretty surprising to be honest. Maybe he couldn't handle pressure before and got over it?
his block of those first vultures was really impressive. forgg rode them ahead of his tanks to mine up near the ramp and i guess try to sandwich the dragoons/cut off reinforcements, but he got blocked on the bridges and then before the ramp
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
THOSE ARE THE TLPD PICTURES WTF?
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Burned Toast
Canada2040 Posts
which one is my beloved July ?
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On December 04 2008 20:08 Plexa wrote:
THOSE ARE THE TLPD PICTURES WTF?
screenshot?
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july's red at the top, other dude is yellow at the bottom
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Bul_T played like crap... he wasted so many units and could have won it so much earlier...
Thing that not many people realise is that a nexus as fast as Bul_T's was is a hard counter to 2fac builds. Build order win really
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On December 04 2008 20:09 Shikyo wrote:screenshot? next time they come around ill screenshot
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
July going 9pool, firefist going overlord 9 gas
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9070 Posts
is this gas before pool ?!
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
July added his gas before overlord, firefist is pooling about 11 or 12
Interesting
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9070 Posts
lets see the timing of ff
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
July going lair before speed, and is significantly faster than firefists
July has 6 lings out, FF's lings are morphing atm (and he's laired as soon as the pool popped)
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yellow firefirst red july
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July is red (look at STX team name)
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
July is Red at 12
Firefist is Yellow at 6
july pressuring with his lings, forcing firefist to be defensive
July's lair is done
spire started immediately, FF adds a second hatch
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july tricks ff to make more lings
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July throws his 2nd hatch at his natural! Let's see how that plays out.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
3 mutas building for july
about 15-20 seconds later FF's spire is done as well and i think he'lll be building scourges
FF has an adv atm
july's mutas are out
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
FF has scourge out, as expected and 3 muta
July's natural is done and he is just making mutalisks
july just lost all his lings to muta/ling
this is over..
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
lings into julys natural attacking hatch
mutas still brooding outside of july's main
mutas's defending the natural - FF goes in and kills a drone
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On December 04 2008 20:09 Plexa wrote:Bul_T played like crap... he wasted so many units and could have won it so much earlier... Thing that not many people realise is that a nexus as fast as Bul_T's was is a hard counter to 2fac builds. Build order win really
the greediest build you can do is a hard counter to a rush
protoss is nifty
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
muta fight just outside julys natural
both sides microing accordingly.. scourges doing shit atm
july forced to retreat to defend against FFs lings raping shit everywhere in his main/nat
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9070 Posts
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There goes my fantasy MSL point. I thought he was such a good deal too, good ZvP for only 1 point
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wow, i owned myself there, thought july's early spire would be enough of an edge
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On December 04 2008 20:15 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 20:09 Plexa wrote:Bul_T played like crap... he wasted so many units and could have won it so much earlier... Thing that not many people realise is that a nexus as fast as Bul_T's was is a hard counter to 2fac builds. Build order win really the greediest build you can do is a hard counter to a rush protoss is nifty With that kinda timing yes its paradoxical but i've seen it so many times .. perhaps its more of a soft counter
anyway if the terran does a push like that with 3 tank/vult etc theyre just going to be eaten alive by a good fe
lings raping july badly, mutas raping shit up
july is dead...
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July 0-2'd how sad
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
and there we go july loses to a superior build
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Go Firefist! Knock ForGG out!
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July's back in a slump again? But he'll be back soon!
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
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July + MSL = ???
How often has taking the 2nd hatch at natural worked in ZvZ lately? I'm curious on that one.
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does anyone know what the green bag i see a lot of players rubbing their hands with is? forgg was using one on the outro
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I think firefist is going to get his ass kicked...
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On December 04 2008 20:20 benjammin wrote:
does anyone know what the green bag i see a lot of players rubbing their hands with is? forgg was using one on the outro
hand warmers
playing sc with cold hands doesn't work
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On December 04 2008 20:20 benjammin wrote:
does anyone know what the green bag i see a lot of players rubbing their hands with is? forgg was using one on the outro
Probably filled with chemicals inside when you mush it, it becomes warm? o.o
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july doesnt slump. ok? he lacks of twinkies maybe, but slump never.
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Guys ,why are wondering July lost ?
Even his OSL was ZvP only. He is not in a slump. His zvt is godly.But his zvz and zvp is in iccup A- level
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Well July's powers won't be in zenith for another 8 months anyway. Then he will beat whoever the 'Best' looking protoss player is too take another OSL. The cycle continues.
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On December 04 2008 20:21 simcar wrote:
Guys ,why are wondering July lost ?
Even his OSL was ZvP only. He is not in a slump. His zvp is godly.But his zvz and zvp is in iccup A- level
Wow, are you a troll?
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On December 04 2008 20:21 simcar wrote:
Guys ,why are wondering July lost ?
Even his OSL was ZvP only. He is not in a slump. His zvp is godly.But his zvz and zvp is in iccup A- level
July lost to Bul_T or whoever he is. That just shows how out of touch his ZvP is. He's supposed to be untouchable there, but got GG'd pretty hard with poor micro and bad unit decisions. Back in the day even Bisu and the best tosses feared him ... he showed good micro and smart game sense, but today he's really out of it.
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On December 04 2008 20:19 KreaGata wrote:
July + MSL = ???
How often has taking the 2nd hatch at natural worked in ZvZ lately? I'm curious on that one.
If they did it like Oversky, maybe it'd actually work.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On December 04 2008 20:21 simcar wrote:
Guys ,why are wondering July lost ?
Even his OSL was ZvP only. He is not in a slump. His zvp is godly.But his zvz and zvp is in iccup A- level Uh, July lost because he was playing 9pool against 12pool on a map with long rush distances. July was banking on Firefist playing either overpool (semi-standard) or 12 hatch (to exploit the long rush distance). For overpool he isn't any better off, and comes out roughly even. For 12 hatch he gets an ez win.
Firefirst played 9gas/12pool which completely rapes 9 pool without serious micro error
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Cant u read my post ???? OMG
I said July's zvp is N1. No doubt.
Im talking about his zvz and zvt.Its just in semi pro level.
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On December 04 2008 20:26 simcar wrote:
Cant u read my post ???? OMG
I said July's zvp is N1. No doubt.
Im talking about his zvz and zvt.Its just in semi pro level.
And I asked if you were a troll? All of your posts are so full of crap.
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On December 04 2008 20:26 simcar wrote:
Cant u read my post ???? OMG
I said July's zvp is N1. No doubt.
Im talking about his zvz and zvt.Its just in semi pro level.
Your post actually sounded hella confusing to me. Typo ftw.
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On December 04 2008 20:26 simcar wrote:
Cant u read my post ???? OMG
I said July's zvp is N1. No doubt.
Im talking about his zvz and zvt.Its just in semi pro level.
"Semi pro level"? What the hell are you talking about - July is fucking badass with his muta micro. On his good days his mutas are invincible. But his macro sense is a little off today, and it showed.
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Haha, I pressed print screen to capture that picture Plexa was talking about, but the scream just continues when I paste it in paint.
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CA10828 Posts
On December 04 2008 20:26 simcar wrote:
Cant u read my post ???? OMG
I said July's zvp is N1. No doubt.
Im talking about his zvz and zvt.Its just in semi pro level.
On December 04 2008 20:21 simcar wrote:
Guys ,why are wondering July lost ?
Even his OSL was ZvP only. He is not in a slump. His zvp is godly.But his zvz and zvp is in iccup A- level
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9070 Posts
c'mon firefist, wanna make an omelet ? You gotta break some eggs
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
woahhh the chinese totally took me by surprise :O:O
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Does the grass look more green??
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On December 04 2008 20:24 Xstatic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 20:21 simcar wrote:
Guys ,why are wondering July lost ?
Even his OSL was ZvP only. He is not in a slump. His zvp is godly.But his zvz and zvp is in iccup A- level July lost to Bul_T or whoever he is. That just shows how out of touch his ZvP is. He's supposed to be untouchable there, but got GG'd pretty hard with poor micro and bad unit decisions. Back in the day even Bisu and the best tosses feared him ... he showed good micro and smart game sense, but today he's really out of it.
Yeah and the map he played on being freaking 0-9 ZvP had nothing to do with it.
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On December 04 2008 20:28 LosingID8 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 20:26 simcar wrote:
Cant u read my post ???? OMG
I said July's zvp is N1. No doubt.
Im talking about his zvz and zvt.Its just in semi pro level. Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 20:21 simcar wrote:
Guys ,why are wondering July lost ?
Even his OSL was ZvP only. He is not in a slump. His zvp is godly.But his zvz and zvp is in iccup A- level
I made typo error. Everything about his zvz and zvt
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lol and Firefist gets raped.
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On December 04 2008 20:28 thedeadhaji wrote:
woahhh the chinese totally took me by surprise :O:O
ThisisCombat-Exwithanotherchinesecommentary
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9070 Posts
On December 04 2008 20:29 Plexa wrote:image isnt the best.. but it does look like the protoss image e.g  Bul_TTime Attacker is  fOrGG? wtfff
the image is like a shot from the mothman prophecy movie :D trippy
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Bunker rush from fOrGG fails.
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And I take it back.. I typed that out, came back, and the bunker is gone.
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CA10828 Posts
On December 04 2008 20:32 KreaGata wrote:
Bunker rush from fOrGG fails.
i wouldn't call getting 6 drone kills a failed rush.
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who's ahead here? seems like it should be forgg by a bit
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Wow very fast CC for ForGG after killing 6 drones or so
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CA10828 Posts
2hatch muta for firefist. spire halfway up.
forgg 1rax FE
CC done making 2nd rax and acad done, 2 comsat going up. a couple fb out.
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his zvp is good sometimes
but i agree his zvz and zvt inconsistant!
look at his game vs s2, he lost against a skt1 zerg!!! how bad is that!!!!
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Minor harass for Firefist, muta harass not doing much
Forgg moves out with rines, kills 3rd
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well damn
in the MSL Zerg can only win against Zerg
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CA10828 Posts
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GG YO from FireFist, fOrGG moves on!
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WOW FIREFIST RAN HIS MUTAS INTO THOSE RINES
GG YO from Firefist!
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Really poor muta harassment from Firefist. I was hoping he would advance, but it doesn't seem like his ZvT is up to snuff.
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maybe should've taken the longer route, huh?
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CA10828 Posts
On December 04 2008 20:39 Xstatic wrote:
WOW FIREFIST RAN HIS MUTAS INTO THOSE RINES
didn't matter, game was over when he lost his expo at 12
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Congrats Bul_T as expected from SK Captain
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On December 04 2008 20:40 LosingID8 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 20:39 Xstatic wrote:
WOW FIREFIST RAN HIS MUTAS INTO THOSE RINES didn't matter, game was over when he lost his expo at 12
True, but his muta harass was pathetic. I hoped he could have done some more damage to ForGG's econ.
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Zerg progress in MST: 0/2. Let's hope this doesn't become a trend!
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Russian Federation1381 Posts
My 2 points in forgg move on to MSL yay. I wonder though if i made right choice in picking luxury and jaedong in the fantasy pool. Luxury has a zerg in his group, he can do it... jaedong on the other hand got 2 terrans and a random protoss in his group, he may not make it to the athena2.
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On December 04 2008 20:42 Xstatic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 20:40 LosingID8 wrote:On December 04 2008 20:39 Xstatic wrote:
WOW FIREFIST RAN HIS MUTAS INTO THOSE RINES didn't matter, game was over when he lost his expo at 12 True, but his muta harass was pathetic. I hoped he could have done some more damage to ForGG's econ.
I think a nice mutaling could have taken out forgg's first mnm group and after that he would have had far better chances.
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zerg retribution in this msl you say :D ?
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July vs forgg wouldve been so much better, too bad zvz is full of luck.
The last 10 televised tvz's, terran 9 wins, zerg 1 win.
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WTF July is out freaking Byzantium and random ZvZ why don't they use more balanced maps ? This MSL is starting to suck already . Well at least ForGG made it i guess . But if July won his first game he could have went all in againts ForGG and somehow make it .......
Seriously is two hatch mutas the only viable build on this map ? damn it July should have 5 -pooled the newb .
First plasma in OSL and now byzantinum last MSL and this MSL again and people are asking questions like why are zergs doing bad .... Not to mention Tiamat from arena MSL when Jaedong somehow managed to make the finals ...
Maybe next season they'll think about adding both Tiamat plasma and byzantinum in survivor or just ban the zerg race all together ...
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CA10828 Posts
On December 04 2008 20:42 Xstatic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 20:40 LosingID8 wrote:On December 04 2008 20:39 Xstatic wrote:
WOW FIREFIST RAN HIS MUTAS INTO THOSE RINES didn't matter, game was over when he lost his expo at 12 True, but his muta harass was pathetic. I hoped he could have done some more damage to ForGG's econ.
see the thing is i'm not sure firefist had planned to go 2hatch muta this game. i really doubt he expected to lose 6 drones within the first 4 minutes of the game. losing those drones really messes up your timing window.
when you're playing a rich macro terran that has like 5 or 6 rax up and you're trying to 2hatch muta them... well, it doesn't work too well.
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2 zergs down.............
I hate this trend.............
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On December 04 2008 20:24 Xstatic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 20:21 simcar wrote:
Guys ,why are wondering July lost ?
Even his OSL was ZvP only. He is not in a slump. His zvp is godly.But his zvz and zvp is in iccup A- level July lost to Bul_T or whoever he is. That just shows how out of touch his ZvP is. He's supposed to be untouchable there, but got GG'd pretty hard with poor micro and bad unit decisions. Back in the day even Bisu and the best tosses feared him ... he showed good micro and smart game sense, but today he's really out of it.
Pick a map from PL where July won't steamroll this newb and i will bealive that his " ZvP is out ot touch " ...
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This sucks donkeyballs. Frigging Bul_T ...
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bul_______________________________T
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It's the age of the protoss and downfall of the zerg while terran is still meh
edit: it's funny when it's the age of the terran, zerg is still on downfall while protoss is meh. But then when it's zerg time to shine, both terran and protoss goes down. So I guess zerg is either lose lose or pure win
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LOL.
Byzantium 2 > July ^^
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Belgium9947 Posts
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United States2186 Posts
Destination is really hard TvP, no question.
Byzantium certainly has *some* ZvP imbalance, but the question is how much?
Honestly these games of Jaedong Yarnc July going 2 hatch muta allins and getting rolled cause it's obvious don't show much at all about the map. I mean, yeah you can argue that these zergs don't feel comfortable doing anything besides an all in, but 2 hatch muta just doesn't work. Are there any vods within the past year of it working? All I can remember is failure after failure. And especially if you let them scout it. Any map that lets 2 hatch muta win after FE P sees it coming must be 50-0 ZvP.
But I suppose people would rather ignore the game scenarios and just blindly blame the map.
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On December 04 2008 22:24 simcar wrote:
Destination> ForGG mb ?
No forgg just cant micro, he had so much shit he could have easily pushed in before that shuttle got there but he wanted to play it safe and got rolled for it
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On December 04 2008 22:31 Ver wrote:
Destination is really hard TvP, no question.
Byzantium certainly has *some* ZvP imbalance, but the question is how much?
Honestly these games of Jaedong Yarnc July going 2 hatch muta allins and getting rolled cause it's obvious don't show much at all about the map. I mean, yeah you can argue that these zergs don't feel comfortable doing anything besides an all in, but 2 hatch muta just doesn't work. Are there any vods within the past year of it working? All I can remember is failure after failure. And especially if you let them scout it. Any map that lets 2 hatch muta win after FE P sees it coming must be 50-0 ZvP.
But I suppose people would rather ignore the game scenarios and just blindly blame the map.
You just don't get it . They practise 15 hours a day and they all do 2 hatch mutas , because maybe thats the best all in opening for the map and the map sucks for a macro game . Obviously two hatch mutas is super risky all toss has to do is whore cannons , or get archons or just save and mass up corsairs and the zergs are pretty much fucked because of their poor economy ...
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It actually isn't that surprising that Bul_T advanced 2-0. He had the map advantage against July SKT1 has really, really good PvT players that could counter ForGG's macro style.
But still, it is.
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Oh c'mon ForGG, pick up your TvP! Especially in these dark times, on these shitty maps, we need everyone who can XvP at highest level.
Anyway, good job going through .
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people look at forgg's tvz stats holy shit
screams oov now 21-9
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Yes ForGG Fighting!!! my Fantasy MSL is off to a good start.
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On December 05 2008 01:38 adelarge wrote:Oh c'mon ForGG, pick up your TvP! Especially in these dark times, on these shitty maps, we need everyone who can XvP at highest level. Anyway, good job going through .
A lot of P's have very good PvP at least. :3
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On December 05 2008 05:14 SpiralArchitect wrote:
Wtf July.... wtf.
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United States1865 Posts
On December 05 2008 00:23 raga4ka wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2008 22:31 Ver wrote:
Destination is really hard TvP, no question.
Byzantium certainly has *some* ZvP imbalance, but the question is how much?
Honestly these games of Jaedong Yarnc July going 2 hatch muta allins and getting rolled cause it's obvious don't show much at all about the map. I mean, yeah you can argue that these zergs don't feel comfortable doing anything besides an all in, but 2 hatch muta just doesn't work. Are there any vods within the past year of it working? All I can remember is failure after failure. And especially if you let them scout it. Any map that lets 2 hatch muta win after FE P sees it coming must be 50-0 ZvP.
But I suppose people would rather ignore the game scenarios and just blindly blame the map. You just don't get it . They practise 15 hours a day and they all do 2 hatch mutas , because maybe thats the best all in opening for the map and the map sucks for a macro game . Obviously two hatch mutas is super risky all toss has to do is whore cannons , or get archons or just save and mass up corsairs and the zergs are pretty much fucked because of their poor economy ...
This.
Do you think Korean progamers who have played a billion practice games for 2 hat muta on these maps dont realize, VERY CLEARLY, that it has extreme weaknesses, huge risk, and is not a generally adviseable choice? You are not saying some amazing revalation - they fucking get it. That is all the more reason to blame the maps! In fact that is the absolute BEST case to blame the maps because it shows just how forced into a corner these progamers are with the map imbalance.
Remember Jaedong vs fOrGG on Tiamat? (MSL Finals) -- do you think Jaedong continually sent a stream of easily killed speedlings into fOrGG's nat because he thought that was the best strategy instead of standard play or quick muta play that he might have been more comfortable with? No. But the map was 100% Terran win vs Zerg and it was very obvious Jaedong simply had to go with the riksy strat to have a shot, and of course he got rolled over because those things rarely pay off.
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Look
If Julyzerg and Jaedong cannot win ZvP on Byzantium, no one can.
remove that fucking map from the planet
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Fuck Byzantium. This MSL better not be another Zerg graveyard.
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On December 05 2008 09:23 ahole-surprise wrote:
Look
If Julyzerg and Jaedong cannot win ZvP on Byzantium, no one can.
remove that fucking map from the planet
Yes. Gogo
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July didn't get owned by byzantium or bul_t...
He got owned by Doctor.K
the doctor is in the house
heh i had to say it
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On December 04 2008 22:31 Ver wrote:
Destination is really hard TvP, no question.
Byzantium certainly has *some* ZvP imbalance, but the question is how much?
Honestly these games of Jaedong Yarnc July going 2 hatch muta allins and getting rolled cause it's obvious don't show much at all about the map. I mean, yeah you can argue that these zergs don't feel comfortable doing anything besides an all in, but 2 hatch muta just doesn't work. Are there any vods within the past year of it working? All I can remember is failure after failure. And especially if you let them scout it. Any map that lets 2 hatch muta win after FE P sees it coming must be 50-0 ZvP.
But I suppose people would rather ignore the game scenarios and just blindly blame the map.
Hey retard, tell us the total win % for PvZ on Byzantium 1 and 2 combined for official matches.
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On December 04 2008 22:31 Ver wrote:
Destination is really hard TvP, no question.
Byzantium certainly has *some* ZvP imbalance, but the question is how much?
Honestly these games of Jaedong Yarnc July going 2 hatch muta allins and getting rolled cause it's obvious don't show much at all about the map. I mean, yeah you can argue that these zergs don't feel comfortable doing anything besides an all in, but 2 hatch muta just doesn't work. Are there any vods within the past year of it working? All I can remember is failure after failure. And especially if you let them scout it. Any map that lets 2 hatch muta win after FE P sees it coming must be 50-0 ZvP.
But I suppose people would rather ignore the game scenarios and just blindly blame the map.
Have you ever though, "hey, why do all the godly ZvPers go 2Hatch Muta to try and avoid a macro war on Byzantium even though it seems like they have a chance normally?"
I think Nony put it best, if it gets to the late game, Zergs are at a severe disadvantage. They cannot drop the protoss main, but the protoss can do so to the zergs, and they cannot defend a single point (which lurkers are useful for) and the protoss can just go plowing through some undefended route before the zerg can set up a proper defense.
You have not analyzed the why and have only looked at the whats.
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