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On September 10 2008 11:56 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2008 11:23 AttackZerg wrote:On September 10 2008 03:01 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Oh? You expected to flame IdrA and not get a response?
Passing courage isn't exactly easy.. especially when you run up against the guy who ends up winning the damn thing in the 4th round. Estro was a bunch of racist assholes who ignored greg.. his "pro training" was ICCUP. I know you hold a grudge against him (deservedly so, he is just as bm to you) but you are wrong to think that his courage performance has been bad or something. Idra went out of his way to pick on one of the best non-koreans when he in fact has yet to do anything with his training. I understand you are friends but even idra can hold his own nutts.... common now. The dude goes out of his way to be a prick and hasn't proven on any international or national level that at least he is backing it up with a high level of play.... I am rooting for any non-korean more then the next guy, but he is a big boy, if he is going to act like a faggot and talk shit to cloud why do you think you need to powerlift your way into it? Seriously the usa brotherhood is pretty lame.... What are you talking about? He hasn't done anything? He has done as much if not MORE than cloud so I don't see where you are going with this merit competition you fabricated. Winning the eSTRO tourney with Skew, Artosis, NonY, Xiaozi, G5, JF and a hacking Dino amongst others.. is very impressive. He has also gone to the 4th round of a Courage losing to the eventual winner. I already said that it was obvious that IdrA was a dick. I said that several times in fact. What I was disputing is Cloud's response. He has a LOT of material to work with if he wants to make IdrA look/feel bad. He however chose a venue that I could argue with, as I did.
Your winning usa wcg is more impressive period. Winning any tournament which leads to a tournament that is actually in the kespa ranking is fair more important then any internet tournament. I'll put it like this, Idra hasn't proven to the international community on a wide scale that he has what it takes.
The level of the players wasn't my issue geoff it was you standing up for idra when he is going out of his way to bad mouth a player who gets alot more respect internationally then he does.... and for good reason. If you aren't winning starleagues then don't talk big.
And taking it back to the skill level you brought up do you really think idra is top 5 non koreans?
I just don't like watching idra get backup for shit he starts when he will most not do better then the winner of spirit....
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I'm starting to notice you are staking a lot of claim in arbitrary stuff. Cloud gets recognition internationally.. hmm that is true, so does IdrA. Who gets more? We cannot tell. Neither of them are a Mondragon or Draco where it is obvious.
And your claim that in order to talk big you have to win star leagues isn't even held up on the top korean level. There are a lot of non star league winning trash talkers at that level (well, not A LOT but there are a few). Moving beyond the literal level it is still silly on the figurative. Talking crap is fun and a helluva lot more interesting than a bunch of subservient and silent gamers twittling thumbs and silently playing a game. Cloud was wrong in his response hence my "usa brotherhood" defense. You are defending your claim by artificially assigning value to a bunch of stuff that cannot be weighed.. which is fine... but illogical.
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inc winning wcg usa was pretty pimp.
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On September 10 2008 11:23 AttackZerg wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2008 03:01 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Oh? You expected to flame IdrA and not get a response?
Passing courage isn't exactly easy.. especially when you run up against the guy who ends up winning the damn thing in the 4th round. Estro was a bunch of racist assholes who ignored greg.. his "pro training" was ICCUP. I know you hold a grudge against him (deservedly so, he is just as bm to you) but you are wrong to think that his courage performance has been bad or something. Idra went out of his way to pick on one of the best non-koreans when he in fact has yet to do anything with his training. I understand you are friends but even idra can hold his own nutts.... common now. The dude goes out of his way to be a prick and hasn't proven on any international or national level that at least he is backing it up with a high level of play.... I am rooting for any non-korean more then the next guy, but he is a big boy, if he is going to act like a faggot and talk shit to cloud why do you think you need to powerlift your way into it? Seriously the usa brotherhood is pretty lame....
No offense to cloud, and I am really not trying to start another side argument, But he is not one of the best non-koreans. He is definitely very talented but there is a lot of gamers above his talent. And I'm assuming that when you say "one of the best non-koreans" you mean top 10.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On September 10 2008 12:42 jeddus wrote:
inc winning wcg usa was pretty pimp.
<3
I'm hoping to catch fire for this one too hhehe!
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balls, scforall not working again
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scforall's unreliability is annoying at times... I appreciate the effort it makes in hosting this tournament and all of the vods, but I hope they can resolve these issues and make it so the vods don't die so often.
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On September 10 2008 12:34 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
I'm starting to notice you are staking a lot of claim in arbitrary stuff. Cloud gets recognition internationally.. hmm that is true, so does IdrA. Who gets more? We cannot tell. Neither of them are a Mondragon or Draco where it is obvious.
And your claim that in order to talk big you have to win star leagues isn't even held up on the top korean level. There are a lot of non star league winning trash talkers at that level (well, not A LOT but there are a few). Moving beyond the literal level it is still silly on the figurative. Talking crap is fun and a helluva lot more interesting than a bunch of subservient and silent gamers twittling thumbs and silently playing a game. Cloud was wrong in his response hence my "usa brotherhood" defense. You are defending your claim by artificially assigning value to a bunch of stuff that cannot be weighed.. which is fine... but illogical.
I never intended to compare idra or clouds international recognition as a staple to my point. Infact I never even said cloud was even better then idra.
I stated that idra is talking shit .... in other words assuming he is in a position to judge anybody, when he has yet to show any talent himself he has shown that hard work helps but it still didn't pay off and he never won courage and as a publicity stunt (so they could get him off of there hands ) was handed out a pro gamming license. If he showed any real promise do you think estro would trade him to make way for another player? I mean its not like estro is a great host of talent anyway....
My value placed on winning national LAN events and qualifying for International LAN events might be inaccurate who knows ..... but I doubt it.
My original point was that you shouldn't need to defend greg, he is a big boy don't you think? Why can't he defend himself when he starts problems..... that is how this all started.
Anyway if you want to respond and your welcome to Pm me otherwise I don't think either of us need another temp ban =(.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
You did in fact say cloud gets more international recognition.. so don't try and switch that as "I never said cloud is better." Nobody was saying anything about either of their skill so you asserting that is illogical.
Your assessment of IdrA has and continues to be completely biased and ill informed. You are asserting reasons for why he was given the progamer license or "traded" (he wasn't) and making them negative. Obviously you are in no position to be commenting on this as you don't know and what you think you know is completely skewed and ignorant. We get it: You don't like flaming. You don't think IdrA has reached that magical level where evidently you are awarded the right to be a jerk. These are all of course magical constructs you fabricated so using them as some kind of point in your argument is just plain silly, stop.
Your values are not inaccurate.. they are not gaugable.. that was my point. You trying to gauge them is what was wrong, not whether or not it was accurate.
I didn't need to defend greg, I did cause he is my friend and Cloud was wrong.
You aren't a mod. Having arguments are fine on this forum as long as they are within reason. Seeing as how neither of us have gone to caps or blatant flaming there is no need for you to back seat moderate and assume it's time to move the debate elsewhere.
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On September 10 2008 13:36 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
You did in fact say cloud gets more international recognition.. so don't try and switch that as "I never said cloud is better." Nobody was saying anything about either of their skill so you asserting that is illogical.
Your assessment of IdrA has and continues to be completely biased and ill informed. You are asserting reasons for why he was given the progamer license or "traded" (he wasn't) and making them negative. Obviously you are in no position to be commenting on this as you don't know and what you think you know is completely skewed and ignorant. We get it: You don't like flaming. You don't think IdrA has reached that magical level where evidently you are awarded the right to be a jerk. These are all of course magical constructs you fabricated so using them as some kind of point in your argument is just plain silly, stop.
Your values are not inaccurate.. they are not gaugable.. that was my point. You trying to gauge them is what was wrong, not whether or not it was accurate.
I didn't need to defend greg, I did cause he is my friend and Cloud was wrong.
You aren't a mod. Having arguments are fine on this forum as long as they are within reason. Seeing as how neither of us have gone to caps or blatant flaming there is no need for you to back seat moderate and assume it's time to move the debate elsewhere.
I said he gets more respect not recognition.
Cloud is respected for being a nice and good member of the international community, things like TL attack help boister that, his posts in strategy threads.... respect goes alittle beyond skill in a game, I was never anywhere close to asserting he is more recognized or receives more recognition, he isn't all over the internet as the only american in korea playing starcraft how could he be as recognized....
Idra is known for his BM and since he isn't clever he doesn't receive respect internationaly for that....
Since you are never wrong I dictionary.com'ed the definations for respect and recognition to insure that couldn't be flipped on me and ... they are(edited aren't) different.
I was back seat modding because this thread has another purpose and I respect that, I don't need to show off my conversations for them to have meaning I am fine having them privately but that is personal taste. Who knows making a conversation private could be a sign of ..... maturity (or I am so outclassed and wrong that any hope of seeming anything but ridculous is impossible )
You are right he wasn't traded, another team took him. I asserted that if he showed promise the team that had already feed and housed him for months would keep their investment....
I asserted that he didn't win courage, he was given his pro gamming license, which is awesome , he went 50% in an inhosue tourny.... but then was promptly moved to another team, Why did estro do that when they only have a couple to give away a year..... you tell me since you know so clearly
I am not a mod that is correct, good call.
First place for usa Pays money/prizes & flights-hotel rooms plus qualification into an international tournament. Gauging Lan preformance and results is very applicable, its how the koreans do it ....
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Man my internet must be really bad if I can't watch the scforall vods. (that is, not a complete slideshow)
I was watching the progamer vs. foreigner showmatches just fine a few days ago. 
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Are the G5/Fenix VODs working for anyone?
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On September 10 2008 14:55 benjammin wrote:
Are the G5/Fenix VODs working for anyone?
i think no..
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i think that idra is a pretty cool guy n stuff
so is nony and fenix
if only there was a zerg i feel like i could root for, i don't know foreign zergs well enough yet
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omg its these faulty vods all over again.. refresh refresh refresh..
im dying to see these games,, thats how good spirit vods have been so far. Why dont they work? T_T
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I read the Inc vs AttackZerg battle and it turned out to be an argument about ClouD rather than IdrA! :D
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
SCFORALL website is being worked on = vods not working
Artosis is at the eSTRO workshop = no updates from him.
Both will be back/fixed in short time.
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DinOt is gona takes anyone down!
he got the AGE, DEDICATION and the STYLE to succed in korea =)!
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why so much argument around idra? im fairly sure daniel lee and the resto of the estro/cj coaches know 400 times more about the subject than anyone in this thread. not saying I support idra, but pro coaches know how to do their job k?
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EPT
