EPT[ASL6] Ro24 Group B - Page 8
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Desmond1
20 Posts
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Miragee
8658 Posts
On September 06 2018 06:23 Desmond1 wrote: Yeah, I mean hard to argue with you, it’s weird to say player a could have won or lost vs player b in x series when the universe just doesn’t work that way. Last did win and props to him. Idk if shine even qualified for Ksl. But what I’m arguing is what has Soulkey ever won? Shine and he may be closer in level than the public knows. Also what has larva ever won? The writer of the power rank put him at 5 and shine didn’t make the list. Soulkey is one of those players that definitely benefited from the team house/coach environment. Imho he is a rare talent with great micro, macro and decisiveness. The problem is that sometimes he switches into kwanro mode and derps heavily. Like, he will be decisive but chooses the option that is 100% wrong. Sometimes he still wins because he is so good... | ||
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Desmond1
20 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19338 Posts
On September 06 2018 05:22 Desmond1 wrote: Honestly shine could be a top 2 or 3 Zerg worldwide. The way Soulkey got dissected by last doesn’t really make you go wow. And everyone talks about larva but I haven’t seen many good results. So I’d say shine has a nice game and behind Jaedong the scene has been wide open for someone to win some tournaments. Now is your chance shine ol buddy. Larva just won the Danjjing Starleague in spectacular fashion. Shine's macro is poor and can't win him a late game anything. He has to win with his head or with a hydra rush.  | ||
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Motivate
2860 Posts
On September 06 2018 06:44 Miragee wrote: Soulkey is one of those players that definitely benefited from the team house/coach environment. Imho he is a rare talent with great micro, macro and decisiveness. The problem is that sometimes he switches into kwanro mode and derps heavily. Like, he will be decisive but chooses the option that is 100% wrong. Sometimes he still wins because he is so good... yea i'd say this is pretty accurate. he's such a good zerg - specifically his defense/macro. no idea why he was so aggressive this series and kept going for hydra/muta all ins. | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On September 06 2018 08:43 BisuDagger wrote: Larva just won the Danjjing Starleague in spectacular fashion. Shine's macro is poor and can't win him a late game anything. He has to win with his head or with a hydra rush. As long as all players are abiding by the agreed upon rules, it is unwise to start placing value on how players achieve competitive success in my opinion. It is enough to describe the method, and state our personal preferences on the matter, but I think it goes a little too far once we try to push our personal truths to other people. Shine's first nickname wasn't "One Minute Bonjwa" without a good reason. It is his trademark play-style that has been evident ever since his first ever KeSPA officiated match versus Iris, and to pretend that his obvious flaws makes him a lesser player than players with huge flaws of their own just because his orthodox late game play is lacking, we run the risk of assessing objective competitive results as subjective matters, as if we were spectating stuff like figure skating. If a player happens to be obscenely talented, but cannot motivate himself to prepare for a match, and gets obliterated by disgusting build orders counters, the onus is on the loser to prove his competitive worth for the next match, instead of expecting spectators to make excuses for him by ignoring his lackluster results, because he would have theoretically defeated his opponent in an alternate reality where circumstances were catered just right for the player in question. Truly great players create their circumstances, not depend on them to fall in place. People have their preferred play-styles. People have their preferred narratives. People have their predilections towards certain match-ups. It is not up to the players to cater towards the subjective preferences of the spectators. If people hate the zerg-versus-zerg match, it is fine to bemoan its frequency, but in my opinion, it is not okay to slander a player for progressing through his mirror match-up strength at the cost of a player with say, a superior zerg-versus-terran ability. Players don't need to comply to the wanted narratives, play-styles, or viewing experience of the spectators. This is what differentiates competitive platforms from WWE. Shine isn't playing some antagonist role for a Brood War version WWE, and I think this site sometimes goes too hard on him for doing what he is supposed to do at a competitive level. | ||
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Desmond1
20 Posts
On September 06 2018 08:43 BisuDagger wrote: Larva just won the Danjjing Starleague in spectacular fashion. Shine's macro is poor and can't win him a late game anything. He has to win with his head or with a hydra rush. Oh, I wasn’t aware of this tournaments existence. Thanks for showing me. Didn’t see any coverage of it somehow. That explains why people have been hyping best lately too who was admittedly one of the dragon tosses but I thought began to suck lately and is now very overrated. I see he managed to get silver here. Thanks. | ||
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19338 Posts
On September 06 2018 10:51 Letmelose wrote: As long as all players are abiding by the agreed upon rules, it is unwise to start placing value on how players achieve competitive success in my opinion. It is enough to describe the method, and state our personal preferences on the matter, but I think it goes a little too far once we try to push our personal truths to other people. Shine's first nickname wasn't "One Minute Bonjwa" without a good reason. It is his trademark play-style that has been evident ever since his first ever KeSPA officiated match versus Iris, and to pretend that his obvious flaws makes him a lesser player than players with huge flaws of their own just because his orthodox late game play is lacking, we run the risk of assessing objective competitive results as subjective matters, as if we were spectating stuff like figure skating. If a player happens to be obscenely talented, but cannot motivate himself to prepare for a match, and gets obliterated by disgusting build orders counters, the onus is on the loser to prove his competitive worth for the next match, instead of expecting spectators to make excuses for him by ignoring his lackluster results, because he would have theoretically defeated his opponent in an alternate reality where circumstances were catered just right for the player in question. Truly great players create their circumstances, not depend on them to fall in place. People have their preferred play-styles. People have their preferred narratives. People have their predilections towards certain match-ups. It is not up to the players to cater towards the subjective preferences of the spectators. If people hate the zerg-versus-zerg match, it is fine to bemoan its frequency, but in my opinion, it is not okay to slander a player for progressing through his mirror match-up strength at the cost of a player with say, a superior zerg-versus-terran ability. Players don't need to comply to the wanted narratives, play-styles, or viewing experience of the spectators. This is what differentiates competitive platforms from WWE. Shine isn't playing some antagonist role for a Brood War version WWE, and I think this site sometimes goes too hard on him for doing what he is supposed to do at a competitive level. You're right and I completely agree.And I've tried to be very positive about Shine despite his wins versus Bisu. And it is a completely personal preference that I dislike seeing him advance by hydra rushing the protoss players i cheer for lol. | ||
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