EPT[ASL5] Ro8 Larva vs Mini - Page 6
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winson
China139 Posts
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Djabanete
United States2786 Posts
Re: Larva saying he had no chance on the maps --- what's the current view for race balance on Sparkle and Third World (in all matchups)? In LR threads right now, every loss seems to get chalked up to map imbalance faster than I can keep up with which races are favored. First Sparkle was a Zerg graveyard, then the center island got removed and now Terrans can't win a TvZ there to save their life. I thought Third World was supposed to be good for ZvP and that Shuttle was a visionary for finding a workable game plan, but it seems Larva doesn't think he can win a ZvP on the map. So where do things actually stand and what are the stats? More paradoxes: On the basis of their performance in YouTube matches, Jaedong is unstoppable in Sparkle ZvP and Effort always loses in the matchup. They're both good players, so what gives? Stork, too, is unstoppable in Sparkle PvZ. What if Jaedong and Stork face off on Sparkle? If someone doesn't persuade me otherwise, I might conclude that it all comes down to skill and preparation... which is crazy, right? Edit: Thank you, Miragee. That is informative. What does "tile" mean in the tables you posted? | ||
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Miragee
8684 Posts
On April 30 2018 11:46 Djabanete wrote: Mini played beautifully! Congrats to him! Re: Larva saying he had no chance on the maps --- what's the current view for race balance on Sparkle and Third World (in all matchups)? In LR threads right now, every loss seems to get chalked up to map imbalance faster than I can keep up with which races are favored. First Sparkle was a Zerg graveyard, then the center island got removed and now Terrans can't win a TvZ there to save their life. I thought Third World was supposed to be good for ZvP and that Shuttle was a visionary for finding a workable game plan, but it seems Larva doesn't think he can win a ZvP on the map. So where do things actually stand and what are the stats? This was posted on the Mind vs Hero Thread: ![[image loading]](https://puu.sh/A9YWL/b2f7961a60.png) Looks like both Third World and Sparkle are about 60:40 in favour of protoss. Based on ELO the odds are more like 70:30 in favour of protoss. So yeah, zerg seems to have a hard time on those maps against protoss. //Addressing your last paragraph, I think it's far too early to talk about balance right now. With the current knowledge and strategy the above numbers are the odds for winning/losing. However, that doesn't take into account that the maps may play into the strength of certain player, which makes them defy all odds. The maps are also far from being figured out. There was so much strategy development on these maps and we are just at a level where that starts to slow down. For reference, even on standard maps new strategies, which completely overthrew the know balance of the map, were developed after months or even years. I don't actually know what tile means. Probably a miss-translation from Korean? I'm pretty sure the numbers in that category show the losses. | ||
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LocoBolon
Argentina246 Posts
On today matches I'm just a little dissapointed, Mini looked very strong and I'm glad the better player advances, but you could tell by looking at Larva's face right from the start that he wasn't his best self, something was off. | ||
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Starlightsun
United States1405 Posts
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2Pacalypse-
Croatia9544 Posts
Map (im)balance should be a last resort when discussing a certain game, as there are almost always other, bigger factors that lead to the outcome that it did. | ||
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kogeT
Poland2042 Posts
My opinion is that maps were firstly good for zerg (both sparke and tranzistor), but now I would say they are really good for protoss. Gladiator being the most balanced out of 3 obviously (standard map), Sparke heavily favouring protoss in all matchups, and tranzistor being a very good P > T map, T > Z map and P = Z map with slight P adv. | ||
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Barneyk
Sweden317 Posts
Larva got a bunch of lings into Minis main, Mini defended very very well. Kind of crazy how little he lost there. Larva got a big drop of in Minis main on Third World, Mini did a great job with countering and defending at the same time. Very impressive play. I felt like Mini was a step ahead and disrupting Larvas plans all the time while at the same time fending of Larvas attacks beautifully. Mini was on fire and Larva was put of balance, I thought it was a great series and Mini had great decision making without hesitation and played with confidence. It was great to see. Gonna miss Larva in the Ro4 but great games... | ||
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Alpha-NP-
United States1242 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19368 Posts
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Xeln4g4
Italy1209 Posts
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
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BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On April 30 2018 00:10 usopsama wrote: Larva is so overrated. He had absolutely no answer to corsairs. Also, his unit control was mediocre. No I don't think he is overrated. Something wasn't right when he played the games. Watching the games, I was flabbergasted at how he played. It's like he didn't care or had no confidence or something. It was just extremely odd to me when a season back, he was taunting others and putting on these mini-ceremonies. Maybe part of it is that he's lost so much in practice or maybe he gave up internally when up against a player who's style is rough to deal with on these maps. Regardless, something was off with his game. Gladiator game is a prime example of that. He got rolled over and didn't even feel like he put up much of a fight. Sparkle game, I'll give to the toss and as for third world, all those pylon blocks must've been horrible, especially considering where his third was. Given, I don't blame the maps fully though I feel they did play a small role. Larva was just not himself. I kept thinking maybe he'll turn this around, nope. A dream ~ | ||
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soujiro_
Uruguay5195 Posts
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Malongo
Chile3472 Posts
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Nematocyst
United States164 Posts
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
I'm still unhappy about the map pool but it's impossible to reasonably point fingers with so little data. Mini probably deserved this victory. I don't like to admit it. But I really don't want to see another ASL like this. Such a mess. | ||
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estuary
1 Post
User was warned for this post | ||
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Nematocyst
United States164 Posts
On May 01 2018 11:55 estuary wrote: I am convinced Larva .... The truth will come out eventually. He's one of the top streamers, and you think he might put that at risk? Potential (permanent) streaming bans, public outcry leading to drop in viewership, sponsors, to say nothing of his many pro friends. "convinced" Seriously? Ok, whatver. | ||
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Dante08
Singapore4179 Posts
On May 01 2018 00:14 Alpha-NP- wrote: Koget why do you think Sparkle favors P in PvT? I really think it favors Terran. But you are more gosu than me. Carriers | ||
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