Not a pre-hype thread... someone else better qualified to make one please do so. But a few tidbits about the upcoming MSL finals:
1) If Savior wins the MSL, it would truly be unprecedented: while he would not be the first to win both starleagues, no one has accomplished the feat with the leagues so close in terms of schedule (i.e. 1 week apart).
2) A big issue is that Bisu went to Thailand for team vacation knowing the finals was coming up, while Savior had the OSL final, and went right into practice mode afterwards. Bisu is getting criticized for this on Korean communities.
I know there are many savior threads nowadays (many which I am starting myself), but savior deserves to dominate discussion.
Ok but seriously why the hell are people getting upset because Bisu went to spend time with his team? Who gives a shit. He even started practicing when he got back, do people want him to train 24/7 and not live his damn life?
Yes! An expensive faux pas there, Bisu! Now sAviOr's going to gain even more support! Woohooo! sAviOr's going to be a freaking badass AND a good guy! Mah Jae Yoon fighting!
On February 25 2007 20:38 uhjoo wrote: 1) If Savior wins the MSL, it would truly be unprecedented: while he would not be the first to win both starleagues, no one has accomplished the feat with the leagues so close in terms of schedule (i.e. 1 week apart).
have the finals ever been this close together? because i dont think so, not fully certain though
I think sometimes its good to have a break to breath.. Bisu probably will come back stronger than you guys think. I'm not saying Bisu will crush sAviOr, because that would be nonsense. sAviOrs ZvP is incredible because he understands how to beat the nowadays toss.
The real problem of savior - in my opinion - is that he is slow if you are going to compare him to other progamers apm. With slow I don't say slow reactions, but slowER! reactions. You can see that he knows that he is slower, because he saves his expansions with sunkens and lurkers to by him time. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think sAviOr would get a problem with a fast tripple gate instead of a fast expansion build. Or perhaps Bisu should try to reaver drop. sAviOr always makes alot of economy and a few zerglings so he is late on mutalisk.. or hydras. Fast Expansion is not the way you win vs sAviOr.
On February 25 2007 23:56 G.s)NarutO wrote: I think sometimes its good to have a break to breath.. Bisu probably will come back stronger than you guys think. I'm not saying Bisu will crush sAviOr, because that would be nonsense. sAviOrs ZvP is incredible because he understands how to beat the nowadays toss.
The real problem of savior - in my opinion - is that he is slow if you are going to compare him to other progamers apm. With slow I don't say slow reactions, but slowER! reactions. You can see that he knows that he is slower, because he saves his expansions with sunkens and lurkers to by him time. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think sAviOr would get a problem with a fast tripple gate instead of a fast expansion build. Or perhaps Bisu should try to reaver drop. sAviOr always makes alot of economy and a few zerglings so he is late on mutalisk.. or hydras. Fast Expansion is not the way you win vs sAviOr.
What do you think?
sorry, I think you are a dumb kid... Savior with his 2xx APM outmicroed outbattled Nada's 4xx APM in several simultaneous battles + scourged DSs, etc. slow? ok
But doesn't Savior mix his play up enough to keep people guessing? He's cleverly done 9 pools just enough times so that everyone starts wondering if he'll do it again.
And I don't think he has slower reactions. He just likes to push things as far as they can go. So his sunkens are always a little later than seems wise. However, he's obviously doing it with the right timing, because it always seems to work. Remember when he fought off a 4 gate rush after FE?
A Protoss player will never beat Savior in a series, period.
There's no point in even bothering to watch.
EDIT:
Before someone thinks they're clever, yes I know Ra did it once. The point I'm making is that until Savior begins his inevitable "losing to everyone he plays until he drops half way down kespa" slump, no toss will beat him in a series again.
On February 25 2007 23:56 G.s)NarutO wrote: I think sometimes its good to have a break to breath.. Bisu probably will come back stronger than you guys think. I'm not saying Bisu will crush sAviOr, because that would be nonsense. sAviOrs ZvP is incredible because he understands how to beat the nowadays toss.
The real problem of savior - in my opinion - is that he is slow if you are going to compare him to other progamers apm. With slow I don't say slow reactions, but slowER! reactions. You can see that he knows that he is slower, because he saves his expansions with sunkens and lurkers to by him time. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think sAviOr would get a problem with a fast tripple gate instead of a fast expansion build. Or perhaps Bisu should try to reaver drop. sAviOr always makes alot of economy and a few zerglings so he is late on mutalisk.. or hydras. Fast Expansion is not the way you win vs sAviOr.
What do you think?
sorry, I think you are a dumb kid... Savior with his 2xx APM outmicroed outbattled Nada's 4xx APM in several simultaneous battles + scourged DSs, etc. slow? ok
Why do I get flamed the whole time... I did not say he is slow. I said he is slower.. and I also posted a theory why I think that he is slower. Please don't blame me for thinking about his playing style...
On February 25 2007 23:56 G.s)NarutO wrote: I think sometimes its good to have a break to breath.. Bisu probably will come back stronger than you guys think. I'm not saying Bisu will crush sAviOr, because that would be nonsense. sAviOrs ZvP is incredible because he understands how to beat the nowadays toss.
The real problem of savior - in my opinion - is that he is slow if you are going to compare him to other progamers apm. With slow I don't say slow reactions, but slowER! reactions. You can see that he knows that he is slower, because he saves his expansions with sunkens and lurkers to by him time. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think sAviOr would get a problem with a fast tripple gate instead of a fast expansion build. Or perhaps Bisu should try to reaver drop. sAviOr always makes alot of economy and a few zerglings so he is late on mutalisk.. or hydras. Fast Expansion is not the way you win vs sAviOr.
What do you think?
yes im sure a fast triple gate rush would be harder for savior to defend seeing as how he has slower reactions and probably won't react to the triple gate. I think you're dumb too
On February 25 2007 23:56 G.s)NarutO wrote: I think sometimes its good to have a break to breath.. Bisu probably will come back stronger than you guys think. I'm not saying Bisu will crush sAviOr, because that would be nonsense. sAviOrs ZvP is incredible because he understands how to beat the nowadays toss.
The real problem of savior - in my opinion - is that he is slow if you are going to compare him to other progamers apm. With slow I don't say slow reactions, but slowER! reactions. You can see that he knows that he is slower, because he saves his expansions with sunkens and lurkers to by him time. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think sAviOr would get a problem with a fast tripple gate instead of a fast expansion build. Or perhaps Bisu should try to reaver drop. sAviOr always makes alot of economy and a few zerglings so he is late on mutalisk.. or hydras. Fast Expansion is not the way you win vs sAviOr.
What do you think?
Savior is slower than other pros? He's the greatest multitasking zerg in history. In my opinion, he has the best sense of in-game awareness today. I'd give you some sources on this, but it's really almost every freaking game. I've seen a lot of unfounded arguments being made against him but this one is just ridiculous. Sorry, I hope I don't come across like an asshole, but I just don't understand how anyone could possibly make this argument.
On February 25 2007 23:56 G.s)NarutO wrote: I think sometimes its good to have a break to breath.. Bisu probably will come back stronger than you guys think. I'm not saying Bisu will crush sAviOr, because that would be nonsense. sAviOrs ZvP is incredible because he understands how to beat the nowadays toss.
The real problem of savior - in my opinion - is that he is slow if you are going to compare him to other progamers apm. With slow I don't say slow reactions, but slowER! reactions. You can see that he knows that he is slower, because he saves his expansions with sunkens and lurkers to by him time. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think sAviOr would get a problem with a fast tripple gate instead of a fast expansion build. Or perhaps Bisu should try to reaver drop. sAviOr always makes alot of economy and a few zerglings so he is late on mutalisk.. or hydras. Fast Expansion is not the way you win vs sAviOr.
What do you think?
sorry, I think you are a dumb kid... Savior with his 2xx APM outmicroed outbattled Nada's 4xx APM in several simultaneous battles + scourged DSs, etc. slow? ok
Why do I get flamed the whole time... I did not say he is slow. I said he is slower.. and I also posted a theory why I think that he is slower. Please don't blame me for thinking about his playing style...
Talking about APM is silly, as it has little to no bearing on a player once they reach a certain level. The fact that Savior shits on everyone he plays should be an indication of his skill and multitasking to you, not his APM.
Seems like no one really wants to argument with me. They read the posts I made ago in NaDa vs sAviOr threads and now they think I just want to talk sAviOr bad. Its not like this. I argumented without any no manner comments or stuff... but I get flamed all the time. I'm not dumb. I just ask myself why a player like savior builds 3 sunkens and lurkers on his expansions. Is it to buy time? Is it to be safer? Is it to avoid drops? I never doubted he is great in multitasking macro and micro like someone said before and I'm also not talking only about apm of savior. But seems like objectivity is out of order here T_T
Yea I don't want this to turn into a flame thread either. Just watch like any game from any time in 2006 and you're more than likely to see some great examples of incredible reaction times. Things that came to mind immediately- vs oov series early 2006, catching shuttles with burrowed hydras on 815 mid 2006, superfight vs nada on arkanoid autumn 2006, and of course game 1 in the recent finals.
I think I understand why bisu is taking his time off.
1.) He and his team worked damn hard to win proleague, and probably doesn't want to be left all alone in his place, despite the upcoming big games. 2.) A teacher once told me, days before a major exam, its better not to go into extreme stress and start mass studying. Instead, take some time off, relax, and go in there with an open mind. Meh, just a guess.
On February 26 2007 00:23 G.s)NarutO wrote: Seems like no one really wants to argument with me. They read the posts I made ago in NaDa vs sAviOr threads and now they think I just want to talk sAviOr bad. Its not like this. I argumented without any no manner comments or stuff... but I get flamed all the time. I'm not dumb. I just ask myself why a player like savior builds 3 sunkens and lurkers on his expansions. Is it to buy time? Is it to be safer? Is it to avoid drops? I never doubted he is great in multitasking macro and micro like someone said before and I'm also not talking only about apm of savior. But seems like objectivity is out of order here T_T
The thing you probably saw is what you see in all pros. That's because there is uncertainty as to where the enemy is going at the moment. It sometimes ends up being a bluff- ie. some terrans will move their entire army out and then move right back to do nothing but to scout and to force some delay in the opponent. For example, I think Iris won one of the games vs Savior with like 4 turrets in his economy that didn't fire once because sAviOr didn't go mutas. It's all about the best preparation for the most information you can get. As far as your comment on multitasking.. you cannot have good multitasking without inhuman reaction to what's going on in the game. I really didn't mean this to be a flame, so sorry if it felt like that.
On February 26 2007 00:31 QuietIdiot wrote: I think I understand why bisu is taking his time off.
1.) He and his team worked damn hard to win proleague, and probably doesn't want to be left all alone in his place, despite the upcoming big games. 2.) A teacher once told me, days before a major exam, its better not to go into extreme stress and start mass studying. Instead, take some time off, relax, and go in there with an open mind. Meh, just a guess.
Heh heh. I would think so too but in almost all the interviews, progamers are really tired from lack of sleep because they stayed up practicing.
On February 26 2007 00:23 G.s)NarutO wrote: Seems like no one really wants to argument with me. They read the posts I made ago in NaDa vs sAviOr threads and now they think I just want to talk sAviOr bad. Its not like this. I argumented without any no manner comments or stuff... but I get flamed all the time. I'm not dumb. I just ask myself why a player like savior builds 3 sunkens and lurkers on his expansions. Is it to buy time? Is it to be safer? Is it to avoid drops? I never doubted he is great in multitasking macro and micro like someone said before and I'm also not talking only about apm of savior. But seems like objectivity is out of order here T_T
Depending on the state of the game, if you can afford it, it is always better to protect your expos with sunkens/lurkers. They are of course built with the intention to buy some time, so you can send backup to save your expo. But I don't see how this as anything to do with Savior being slow? Units are slow, savior is not~
On February 26 2007 00:31 QuietIdiot wrote: I think I understand why bisu is taking his time off.
1.) He and his team worked damn hard to win proleague, and probably doesn't want to be left all alone in his place, despite the upcoming big games. 2.) A teacher once told me, days before a major exam, its better not to go into extreme stress and start mass studying. Instead, take some time off, relax, and go in there with an open mind. Meh, just a guess.
Heh heh. I would think so too but in almost all the interviews, progamers are really tired from lack of sleep because they stayed up practicing.
This is the biggest series of his life and he's been practicing extremely hard throughout the year. All those other games were mere small tests, this is the final exam, definitely worth conserving energy for. He knows the material, he's tried hard throughout, he's probably at his best right now, he lacks serious amount of sleep, so why not?
On February 26 2007 00:23 G.s)NarutO wrote: Seems like no one really wants to argument with me. They read the posts I made ago in NaDa vs sAviOr threads and now they think I just want to talk sAviOr bad. Its not like this. I argumented without any no manner comments or stuff... but I get flamed all the time. I'm not dumb. I just ask myself why a player like savior builds 3 sunkens and lurkers on his expansions. Is it to buy time? Is it to be safer? Is it to avoid drops? I never doubted he is great in multitasking macro and micro like someone said before and I'm also not talking only about apm of savior. But seems like objectivity is out of order here T_T
On February 26 2007 00:31 QuietIdiot wrote: I think I understand why bisu is taking his time off.
1.) He and his team worked damn hard to win proleague, and probably doesn't want to be left all alone in his place, despite the upcoming big games. 2.) A teacher once told me, days before a major exam, its better not to go into extreme stress and start mass studying. Instead, take some time off, relax, and go in there with an open mind. Meh, just a guess.
1) If Bisu's team is going on holiday, who's he going to practice against? To be very honest, I don't think his team should have gone on holiday. They ought to have stayed back to give him the support he needed. how can he enjoy his holiday when he's got the MSL finals on his mind?
2) It's better not to go in with EXTREME stress, but it's certainly not good to take a nice, long break either. A lot fo people hear teachers say, "don't stress yoruself out too much" and take it as license to slack.
In any case, it's Bisu's decision. We shall see how he performs on the day.
savior isnt slower - he is faster. never seen such a game understanding (he is always building the right units for the right time as well as his unit combination and eco building) and his reactions are flawless.
he outmicroed everyone and his macro KICKS ASS.
he just uses his 200-240 apm perfectly and isnt such a abuse whore as nada... thats all.
that he builds sunkens and lurkers to save his expansions has nothing to do with slow reaction but with "saving" them - you know O_O
On February 26 2007 00:08 The Storyteller wrote: And I don't think he has slower reactions. He just likes to push things as far as they can go. So his sunkens are always a little later than seems wise. However, he's obviously doing it with the right timing, because it always seems to work. Remember when he fought off a 4 gate rush after FE?
I don't understand why some people consider savior a safe-only player. He exudes so much confidence about his ability to defend, he always treads a very dangerous line in his build timing. He leaves himself seemingly open for that later-game advantage. He usually has the balls to get that extra drone before laying a sunken. But yea, his timing seems to be perfect on it. As seen in game 2 of the OSL championships, I think only someone at the caliber of Nada is confident and decisive enough with his own attacking ability to commit to these timing pushes. And even he lost a surprising amount of marines to drones. That or someone who isn't intimidated by Savior, like Iris.
Why do I get flamed the whole time... I did not say he is slow. I said he is slower.. and I also posted a theory why I think that he is slower. Please don't blame me for thinking about his playing style...
Because you make posts when you cleary dont understand things.
Why do I get flamed the whole time... I did not say he is slow. I said he is slower.. and I also posted a theory why I think that he is slower. Please don't blame me for thinking about his playing style...
Because you make posts when you cleary dont understand things.
So you do understand all of those progamer moves.. don't you?
Bisu practicing all week, or enjoying himself in Thailand really make no difference. It's up to Savior, whether Bisu wins or not. I wish that weren't the case, but PvZ and especially P v Savior is just so gay.
Why do I get flamed the whole time... I did not say he is slow. I said he is slower.. and I also posted a theory why I think that he is slower. Please don't blame me for thinking about his playing style...
Because you make posts when you cleary dont understand things.
So you do understand all of those progamer moves.. don't you?
Never claimed to, however you say dumb things like savior is slow etc etc etc, or swarm is completely unbeatable.
Why do I get flamed the whole time... I did not say he is slow. I said he is slower.. and I also posted a theory why I think that he is slower. Please don't blame me for thinking about his playing style...
Because you make posts when you cleary dont understand things.
So you do understand all of those progamer moves.. don't you?
I dont think he'll come up with completely useless or nonsensical analysis like "had nada gotten 20 battlecruisers..."
sAviOr always makes alot of economy and a few zerglings so he is late on mutalisk.. or hydras.
utter nonsequitur..if he makes econ..he'll not be late on mutal or tech. it is a part of his strategic play, not that he is too slow to click on a few larvae.
Nobody wants to argue with you because you come across as stupid.
It is irrelevant whether you really are. My IQ is in the 150s and nobody wants to argue with me. That's because I make stupid arguments.
If you want people to reason with you, make sure you construct complete deductive or inductive arguments for every point you are trying to make. You don't need to actually include them in your post, but the process of constructing full syllogisms will enable you to quickly spot flaws in your argument.
These flaws are what you are going to be attacked on. Be sure you have a defence.
Your arguments are flawed in so many ways it's not even funny anymore. Add to this that you tend to have unpopular opinions (which makes people motivated to spot flaws in your argument) and it's obvious you're going to be flamed to death.
Hope this answers your question, and that you don't get flamed again.
I think Bisu's trip to Thailand with his teammates will be a good, enjoyable experience for him. Taking a temporary break from your mechanic mass gaming lifestyle, and experiencing the beauty & culture of Thailand i think will clear his mind for this match.
I'm not saying that his imba experience will auto-win vs. Savior, because Bisu definitely lacks in ZvP seeing how Julyzerg beat him easy & prolly beats him all the time. I'm just hoping through this experience he gets hyped & motivated by his teammates to give it everything he has, possibly but not likely avenge his teammates... and fight till the last man, or probe if it comes down to that.
BTW, if anyone has an inside scoop on who Bisu's training partners are that would be interesting, I only have assumptions, but besides MBC Hero's Julyzerg, Shark, etc. is there anyone else helping Mr. Extreme Train against the Maestro ?
On February 26 2007 02:35 MarcX wrote: Nobody wants to argue with you because you come across as stupid.
It is irrelevant whether you really are. My IQ is in the 150s and nobody wants to argue with me. That's because I make stupid arguments.
If you want people to reason with you, make sure you construct complete deductive or inductive arguments for every point you are trying to make. You don't need to actually include them in your post, but the process of constructing full syllogisms will enable you to quickly spot flaws in your argument.
These flaws are what you are going to be attacked on. Be sure you have a defence.
Your arguments are flawed in so many ways it's not even funny anymore. Add to this that you tend to have unpopular opinions (which makes people motivated to spot flaws in your argument) and it's obvious you're going to be flamed to death.
Hope this answers your question, and that you don't get flamed again.
On February 25 2007 23:56 G.s)NarutO wrote: I think sometimes its good to have a break to breath.. Bisu probably will come back stronger than you guys think. I'm not saying Bisu will crush sAviOr, because that would be nonsense. sAviOrs ZvP is incredible because he understands how to beat the nowadays toss.
The real problem of savior - in my opinion - is that he is slow if you are going to compare him to other progamers apm. With slow I don't say slow reactions, but slowER! reactions. You can see that he knows that he is slower, because he saves his expansions with sunkens and lurkers to by him time. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think sAviOr would get a problem with a fast tripple gate instead of a fast expansion build. Or perhaps Bisu should try to reaver drop. sAviOr always makes alot of economy and a few zerglings so he is late on mutalisk.. or hydras. Fast Expansion is not the way you win vs sAviOr.
What do you think?
Even if he is "slower" (what i think is false), i think he is the one who have the best anticipation in game, the best read of a starcraft game. He can "predict" what he will have to counter, that's why he is the best, he has always advance on every action.
And sAviOr have around 270apm, it's not so bad ! no ?
On February 25 2007 23:56 G.s)NarutO wrote: I think sometimes its good to have a break to breath.. Bisu probably will come back stronger than you guys think. I'm not saying Bisu will crush sAviOr, because that would be nonsense. sAviOrs ZvP is incredible because he understands how to beat the nowadays toss.
The real problem of savior - in my opinion - is that he is slow if you are going to compare him to other progamers apm. With slow I don't say slow reactions, but slowER! reactions. You can see that he knows that he is slower, because he saves his expansions with sunkens and lurkers to by him time. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think sAviOr would get a problem with a fast tripple gate instead of a fast expansion build. Or perhaps Bisu should try to reaver drop. sAviOr always makes alot of economy and a few zerglings so he is late on mutalisk.. or hydras. Fast Expansion is not the way you win vs sAviOr.
What do you think?
Even if he is "slower" (what i think is false), i think he is the one who have the best anticipation in game, the best read of a starcraft game. He can "predict" what he will have to counter, that's why he is the best, he has always advance on every action.
And sAviOr have around 270apm, it's not so bad ! no ?
Agreed.
Who said Savior isn't that fast, just have to see some fpvods of him, his speed (not spam -.-) and multiasking are amazing.
About MSL final I think bisu will try to surprise him with some weird BO, but as you know, Savior will scout, defend, counter, then roll over him.
On February 25 2007 20:45 Ace wrote: hold lurkers>chuck norris
Ok but seriously why the hell are people getting upset because Bisu went to spend time with his team? Who gives a shit. He even started practicing when he got back, do people want him to train 24/7 and not live his damn life?
Yes, Koreans arent very social ppl, basically they suck. They are even affraid of showing there face to the cameras, at live events. The reason that Koreans rule at bw is, that they are all able to throw away there life, and sit in front of the pc 24/7. And when someone goes outside, they get confused.
On February 25 2007 20:45 Ace wrote: hold lurkers>chuck norris
Ok but seriously why the hell are people getting upset because Bisu went to spend time with his team? Who gives a shit. He even started practicing when he got back, do people want him to train 24/7 and not live his damn life?
Yes, Koreans arent very social ppl, basically they suck. They are even affraid of showing there face to the cameras, at live events. The reason that Koreans rule at bw is, that they are all able to throw away there life, and sit in front of the pc 24/7. And when someone goes outside, they get confused.
Bisu is strong in PvZ but you know what Saviors like....
Anyways, those games will be damn cool. And wtf, it's not anyones business how Bisu trains for his games...but I think the issue is that people want to see Savior dethroned and see Bisu as a savior (pun intended) of sorts, who hopefully will knock out Savior (although we all doubt this will happen).
On February 25 2007 23:56 G.s)NarutO wrote: I think sometimes its good to have a break to breath.. Bisu probably will come back stronger than you guys think. I'm not saying Bisu will crush sAviOr, because that would be nonsense. sAviOrs ZvP is incredible because he understands how to beat the nowadays toss.
The real problem of savior - in my opinion - is that he is slow if you are going to compare him to other progamers apm. With slow I don't say slow reactions, but slowER! reactions. You can see that he knows that he is slower, because he saves his expansions with sunkens and lurkers to by him time. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think sAviOr would get a problem with a fast tripple gate instead of a fast expansion build. Or perhaps Bisu should try to reaver drop. sAviOr always makes alot of economy and a few zerglings so he is late on mutalisk.. or hydras. Fast Expansion is not the way you win vs sAviOr.
What do you think?
I think every zerg player in the history of bw knows how to beat a toss.
On February 26 2007 03:34 BlueMorning wrote: I think Bisu's trip to Thailand with his teammates will be a good, enjoyable experience for him. Taking a temporary break from your mechanic mass gaming lifestyle, and experiencing the beauty & culture of Thailand i think will clear his mind for this match.
I'm not saying that his imba experience will auto-win vs. Savior, because Bisu definitely lacks in ZvP seeing how Julyzerg beat him easy & prolly beats him all the time. I'm just hoping through this experience he gets hyped & motivated by his teammates to give it everything he has, possibly but not likely avenge his teammates... and fight till the last man, or probe if it comes down to that.
BTW, if anyone has an inside scoop on who Bisu's training partners are that would be interesting, I only have assumptions, but besides MBC Hero's Julyzerg, Shark, etc. is there anyone else helping Mr. Extreme Train against the Maestro ?
On February 26 2007 10:19 Adamthegreat wrote: If Bisu takes 1 game he has done more than expected.
Let's hope for the impossible (that he takes 2.. 3 is above impossible)
Nope, even rA was able to take 1 game. As long as Bisu takes one game and fights hard in his losses, people will be satisfied (or they should be anyway)
Ppl criticizing Bisu for going on this trip are assholes, progamers are human beings ffs :/
And I wouldn't be too quick to say he is going to get rolled over, of course his chances are low, probably lower than 25% to win it but he has displayed amazing skills before.
Before the Iris / SAvior semi everybody jumped the "Iris has awful TvZ Savior will slaughter him 3-0" bandwagon. Yet he was the one who caused the most trouble to Savior. Wait n' see ....
On February 26 2007 00:47 Selector wrote: apm means nothing
savior isnt slower - he is faster. never seen such a game understanding (he is always building the right units for the right time as well as his unit combination and eco building) and his reactions are flawless.
he outmicroed everyone and his macro KICKS ASS.
he just uses his 200-240 apm perfectly and isnt such a abuse whore as nada... thats all.
that he builds sunkens and lurkers to save his expansions has nothing to do with slow reaction but with "saving" them - you know O_O
Um, you really shouldn't call Nada an abuse whore you haxor.
And yea, Bisu is great at PvZ. It's just a friggin hard MU to win in a bo5 imo, no matter how balanced it is.
On February 26 2007 11:27 ArC_man wrote: Even rA was able to take 1 game? rA has probably the best (or at least among the best) PvZs and he was only able to take 1 game.
Besides his 1 win, his games were embarrassing against savior. Not embarrassing in the sense that savior was so good, either. Flat-out, completely obvious in the sense that rA was bad. What rA did against savior was not good PvZ at all. Don't attempt to change the subject by bringing in rA's other PvZ series, as those are irrelevant.
I have a feeling that we will see atleast one long ass game (like 45+min), because P always need to do some crazy strategies, to beat zergs. And in a bo5 it's mandatory. But I still only think Bisu will be able to take one game, and it won't be easy.
On February 26 2007 12:25 Commentator wrote: Besides his 1 win, his games were embarrassing against savior. Not embarrassing in the sense that savior was so good, either. Flat-out, completely obvious in the sense that rA was bad. What rA did against savior was not good PvZ at all. Don't attempt to change the subject by bringing in rA's other PvZ series, as those are irrelevant.
And which other protoss has ever beaten Savior recently even in 1 game? None, all the other protoss have been utterly embarrassed as well. You make it sound like it's easy to take one game from Savior and you vastly underestimate rA's PvZ. Why can't I bring in other PvZ series from rA? They are proof that he is an excellent PvZ'er, I think you're just trying to avoid that fact that he's brilliant at PvZ and that he is one of the best at that matchup.
On February 26 2007 12:25 Commentator wrote: Besides his 1 win, his games were embarrassing against savior. Not embarrassing in the sense that savior was so good, either. Flat-out, completely obvious in the sense that rA was bad. What rA did against savior was not good PvZ at all. Don't attempt to change the subject by bringing in rA's other PvZ series, as those are irrelevant.
And which other protoss has ever beaten Savior recently even in 1 game? None, all the other protoss have been utterly embarrassed as well.
Reach, roughly one to two weeks before the aforementioned rA vs Savior finals.
I don't think Bisu really stands a chance but the maps arent too bad for him and really its been a lot of wins for savior in the mu... It wouldnt surprise me if this becomes the fluke of the year and Bisu wins 3-0 or something with ridiculously all-in strategies every game.
I really want Savior to win too, which is why I know there is a great possibility for him to lose.
And whoever thinks his 250apm is slow.. you're pretty dumb. He takes many slow apm zerg tricks(Spacing using lurkers placed around the map, defense play, taking far expansions) and combines them with being absolutely ready and prepared for battles at all time, always having good openings and basically having as good of macro/big battle control as anyone else. It makes the possible small difference in speed between him and some of the very fast zergs null as he is undoubtedly better than them.
On February 26 2007 12:25 Commentator wrote: Besides his 1 win, his games were embarrassing against savior. Not embarrassing in the sense that savior was so good, either. Flat-out, completely obvious in the sense that rA was bad. What rA did against savior was not good PvZ at all. Don't attempt to change the subject by bringing in rA's other PvZ series, as those are irrelevant.
And which other protoss has ever beaten Savior recently even in 1 game? None, all the other protoss have been utterly embarrassed as well.
Reach, roughly one to two weeks before the aforementioned rA vs Savior finals.
As a Reach fan boy I'd like to brag about this, but that game was a proxy 2 gate rush...doesn't really count.
Bisu is insanely good PvZ, which will make the 0-3 he's about to swallow even worse. Savior needs to start sucking and fast, I'm sick of him picking on my Protoss boys. It at the point were it isn't even fair anymore.
On February 26 2007 13:17 thedeadhaji wrote: Reach, roughly one to two weeks before the aforementioned rA vs Savior finals.
I meant recently (like last 1-2 Starleagues, Savior has improved and has become even more dominant than he was before). Of course he really hasn't played too many ZvP's recently, so I'm kind of cheating with my words there >_>. Anyways that was before the 1st rA vs Savior BO5 right? IMHO before those finals, Savior wasn't considered as dominant as he is now. I remember before the finals many people (including me) thought rA would be able to take the series, and maybe even that rA had the advantage. Nowadays I don't think anyone would put a protoss even with Savior.
i wouldn't put any terrans even with savior, much less a protoss.
im going to be cheering hard for bisu though, even though im a big fan of saviors. pvz wins are beautiful (except nalra's gay proxy/cheese builds), especially the games (even though its only been a few) bisu has shown vs zerg so far.
So from like a medical or neurological perspective, it is actually quite helpful to take a break from this activity. If Bisu has spent all the previous weeks and stuff focusing heavily on his gameplay, his serotonin levels will be low, meaning that the aminergic pathways in his frontal cortex are overtaxed. Those aminergic pathways are what are necessary for concentration on a subject; i.e. when someone says they are focused on the game, they are utilizing their aminergic pathways (which are mediated by serotonin levels in the synaptic cleft). Usually, during our sleep, our serotonin gets replenished, but if we don't have enough sleep or we have a bad REM/NREM cycle, we don't get all the serotonin back, leading to us feeling "out of it" the next day.
If Bisu went with his team, I'm guessing he was feeling stressed (which affects aminergic pathways through cortisol, but I won't get into that here), and quite reasonably, his serotonin levels were low. Physical activity, like walking through Thailand and stuff, can help re-establish a regular sleep pattern, and thus replenish his levels of serotonin.
Bottom line, going to Thailand or really just taking a break from Starcraft, will help him to concentrate on the match when he comes back.
i really don't like threads with Bisu in them. Every time Bisu is in a series with someone people go "and this is Bisu's worst matchup, too.. what will he do?"
On February 26 2007 14:49 thedeadhaji wrote: steve is that referring to bisu's own win percentages, or rather how proficient he is relative to the "norm" of protoss players.
Proficiency relative to other protoss players
I'm saying people don't consider anything at all. Every single thread involving Bisu there are at least a few people insisting that X is Bisu's worst matchup. Every single live report thread there are people saying "this is Bisu's worst matchup".
On February 26 2007 14:30 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: i really don't like threads with Bisu in them. Every time Bisu is in a series with someone people go "and this is Bisu's worst matchup, too.. what will he do?"
Bisu's matchups are PvZ>PvT>PvP so shut it
Its PvP > PvZ > PvT silly -_-
You have to see the reps of his PvP, his intuition is insanely good for that mu, while his PvT suffers from a timing off here and there. His PvZ is consistent, but sometimes he gets a little over his head and sends too much for too little. Regardless, his micro is straight forward and incredibly accurate, and macro almost as good as pusan's.
Iris showed all of us the way to beat savior.... it´s called old school. One base terran (with the so common back in the days 2 rax -> fac -> vessel tech) was the perfect counter to his muta harass into defiler lurker ling. I do believe the same apply to protoss. The problem is that everyone nowadays have become the standard FE macro festival player. And savior is godly on counter this kind of build. I really would like to see some kind of old school protoss with the standard 2 gate rush into templar tech, always pressuring the zerg so he cant get his third gas, and only than grab an expo... Or maybe the one gate -> zpeed zeal into fast templar tech which is the protoss version of the terran strategy I mentioned earlier. But that would require a great storm user, and nowadays it seems to me that toss users are much greater at macroing than at microing and playing with less units. It seems to me the palyer believe that not going FE is not a viable strategy overall..Cheese wont beat savior, FE wont ever beat Savior, he has proven this all over the last year.
I think the problem is that, like everywhere, progaming scene is highly influenced by trends too. I dont think the vast majority of progamers are prompt to adapt, even though they are playing 10 hours a day. I dont know why, really i cant understand why a player like Nada didnt try at least 1 double rax game like Iris showed in semi, and basicaly owned Savior on HH with.
I think their training is somehow reduce to do and do and redo again, and boxer's type of person is rare. I'd dream of a clever toss which can make progress the race by innovating, or at least find a way to be more convincing and open perspectives. Because too many reps show me clearly that PvZ could be balanced, sorry...
On February 26 2007 14:49 thedeadhaji wrote: steve is that referring to bisu's own win percentages, or rather how proficient he is relative to the "norm" of protoss players.
Proficiency relative to other protoss players
I'm saying people don't consider anything at all. Every single thread involving Bisu there are at least a few people insisting that X is Bisu's worst matchup. Every single live report thread there are people saying "this is Bisu's worst matchup".
People don't think and it's annoying
This is true. However, people must also keep in mind, PvZ being his best match up doesn't help much when Savior is unbeatable ZvP.
Poor kind would be better off playing his worst matchup one handed against Savior rather than PvZing him.
Wasn't NaDa known as the only grandslammer? He won Panasonic OSL and a KPGA at the same time. KPGA (was MBC's tournament before being called a starleague).
On February 26 2007 14:49 thedeadhaji wrote: steve is that referring to bisu's own win percentages, or rather how proficient he is relative to the "norm" of protoss players.
Proficiency relative to other protoss players
I'm saying people don't consider anything at all. Every single thread involving Bisu there are at least a few people insisting that X is Bisu's worst matchup. Every single live report thread there are people saying "this is Bisu's worst matchup".
People don't think and it's annoying
This is true. However, people must also keep in mind, PvZ being his best match up doesn't help much when Savior is unbeatable ZvP.
Poor kind would be better off playing his worst matchup one handed against Savior rather than PvZing him.
can't help but think bisu is thinking "what's the point in missing a holiday when i'm going to get slammed even if i did practice during that time". i'm a big bisu fan, and i do believe he'll get titles in the future, but savior is just too beefy. those games vs nada really showcased it. i almost felt sorry for nada only being able to win a single game due purely to saviors risky hope for dual exp style rush. all i'm really hoping is that the games aren't 1 sided. but his zvp is so unforgiving.. =/
if you look at all the pictures from MBC's vacation, it looks like they had a blast. i sure as hell wouldn't skip a vacation when i'm going to get 2nd place no matter how hard i practice.
In the name of teamliquid, I officially hijack the, worthy uhjoo thread, to become a hype thread for yonder MSL finals. COME my minions, infest this thread with your photoshop skills.
On February 27 2007 08:52 pyrogenetix wrote: lol wtf its like bisu takes a chill pill and everyone is massaging their knuckles and wana tear his head off
let him relax. and if he loses then he loses, its not like your ass is on the line here.
I think you need to ENTER THE DRAGOON - USE CYBERNETICS CORE
What I care more is Bisu's mentality. If he loses his belief.he will lose the series before even playing it. Otherwise even if his chance is from 1% to zero, the final will still be worth watching.
And btw it's understandable for some ppl to criticize Bisu for travelling to Thailand with his team. Imagine a player of your favourite football team hanging out in the night before a World Cup final match ..
On February 26 2007 23:38 {88}iNcontroL wrote: nice to have an epic zvt final and a big time zvp final. Say what you want, Bisu might be the top P atm and it is nice to have 2 non mirror mu finals
If Savior wins even one game with style I'll concede this to you, but I've never seen a fun ZvP game from him that he didn't lose and even then it was because Ra is a sexy beast.
It just isn't fun watching him whore the middle of the map and textbook ultracrack to victory over and over. Savior should be restricted to only playing ZvT on TV, lest he kill me from boredom watching him ZvP.
Bisu is really good PvZ, probably a bit better than Much[gm] and the old Stork[gm](wtf happened to him). After seeing Savior trounce Much who was smacking Zergs up I dont have much faith in him...
I am making a comment on Jesus and his body with my 6666'th post... strange.
Anyways, Jesus is fucking ripped in those pics. What religion is it depicting him that way? I want to be apart of it. Catholics have him as a weak and damaged Jesus on the cross. Give me the HulkJesus on that wooden cross.
On February 26 2007 23:38 {88}iNcontroL wrote: nice to have an epic zvt final and a big time zvp final. Say what you want, Bisu might be the top P atm and it is nice to have 2 non mirror mu finals
If Savior wins even one game with style I'll concede this to you, but I've never seen a fun ZvP game from him that he didn't lose and even then it was because Ra is a sexy beast.
It just isn't fun watching him whore the middle of the map and textbook ultracrack to victory over and over. Savior should be restricted to only playing ZvT on TV, lest he kill me from boredom watching him ZvP.
He gets such a hard run on TL for his ZvP, I actually like watching it.. so perfect. Saying he ultra/cracks way to victory all the time is naive imo. Saying he sunkens alot and whores drones is understandble, but it's damn art and he wins in so many different ways.
On February 26 2007 23:38 {88}iNcontroL wrote: nice to have an epic zvt final and a big time zvp final. Say what you want, Bisu might be the top P atm and it is nice to have 2 non mirror mu finals
If Savior wins even one game with style I'll concede this to you, but I've never seen a fun ZvP game from him that he didn't lose and even then it was because Ra is a sexy beast.
It just isn't fun watching him whore the middle of the map and textbook ultracrack to victory over and over. Savior should be restricted to only playing ZvT on TV, lest he kill me from boredom watching him ZvP.
He gets such a hard run on TL for his ZvP, I actually like watching it.. so perfect. Saying he ultra/cracks way to victory all the time is naive imo. Saying he sunkens alot and whores drones is understandble, but it's damn art and he wins in so many different ways.
I personally like it too. Like his series vs. Kingdom b03 was so brutal savior was merciless. His game vs. Rainbow on peaks for superfight was really close at the start and middle.
On February 25 2007 20:45 Ace wrote: hold lurkers>chuck norris
Ok but seriously why the hell are people getting upset because Bisu went to spend time with his team? Who gives a shit. He even started practicing when he got back, do people want him to train 24/7 and not live his damn life?
Yes, Koreans arent very social ppl, basically they suck. They are even affraid of showing there face to the cameras, at live events. The reason that Koreans rule at bw is, that they are all able to throw away there life, and sit in front of the pc 24/7. And when someone goes outside, they get confused.
On February 25 2007 20:45 Ace wrote: hold lurkers>chuck norris
Ok but seriously why the hell are people getting upset because Bisu went to spend time with his team? Who gives a shit. He even started practicing when he got back, do people want him to train 24/7 and not live his damn life?
Yes, Koreans arent very social ppl, basically they suck. They are even affraid of showing there face to the cameras, at live events. The reason that Koreans rule at bw is, that they are all able to throw away there life, and sit in front of the pc 24/7. And when someone goes outside, they get confused.
Afterall they are antisocial nerds.
get out. right now.
wtf hungerformore. way to piss koreans off with that friggin' gay ass post of yours
On February 27 2007 15:42 {88}iNcontroL wrote: I am making a comment on Jesus and his body with my 6666'th post... strange.
Anyways, Jesus is fucking ripped in those pics. What religion is it depicting him that way? I want to be apart of it. Catholics have him as a weak and damaged Jesus on the cross. Give me the HulkJesus on that wooden cross.
Remember that Jesus was a Carpenter and in fact would have been quite ripped. The depictions of weak Jesus are not only wrong but someone disgraceful in that they purposely make Jesus seem weaker than he really was.
Yes. He was a carpenter who made 400lb benches and large framed beds. Not to mention he bore the weight of the worlds sins. He was most likely fucking ripped.
On February 26 2007 23:38 {88}iNcontroL wrote: nice to have an epic zvt final and a big time zvp final. Say what you want, Bisu might be the top P atm and it is nice to have 2 non mirror mu finals
If Savior wins even one game with style I'll concede this to you, but I've never seen a fun ZvP game from him that he didn't lose and even then it was because Ra is a sexy beast.
It just isn't fun watching him whore the middle of the map and textbook ultracrack to victory over and over. Savior should be restricted to only playing ZvT on TV, lest he kill me from boredom watching him ZvP.
He gets such a hard run on TL for his ZvP, I actually like watching it.. so perfect. Saying he ultra/cracks way to victory all the time is naive imo. Saying he sunkens alot and whores drones is understandble, but it's damn art and he wins in so many different ways.
I personally like it too. Like his series vs. Kingdom b03 was so brutal savior was merciless. His game vs. Rainbow on peaks for superfight was really close at the start and middle.
oh i wanna see savior kingdom bo3. does anyone have teh v0ds
SaviOr's really confident with his win over NaDa in the finals and this will help him in the MSL finals. Bisu, on the other hand, might not be as confident as he is going against the most feared player in Korea right now. Bisu does have an advantage, in that he has practiced PvZ for about 2-3 weeks, while SaviOr has only had 1 week to practice ZvP. All I can say is that Bisu will put up a good fight and SaviOr won't steamroll him.
Saying that Savior's play is easily predicted and countered is plain ignorant. Progamers aren't dumb, they can see that too. But there is a difference between seeing counters and actual countering.
3-0 Savior or 3-2 Savior. If Bisu wins one of the first 3 games he has a good chance to extend to 5 by winning G4 on Desert Fox because it's an island map. Bisu is a huge underdog to win the entire series though.
recently watched savior's epic game vs ra... so many lurkers for so long. I see what you guys mean by mid control boringness. Bisu tends to be a heavy reaver user though, perhaps a nice counter? We will see.
On February 28 2007 09:53 {88}iNcontroL wrote: recently watched savior's epic game vs ra... so many lurkers for so long. I see what you guys mean by mid control boringness. Bisu tends to be a heavy reaver user though, perhaps a nice counter? We will see.
I saw it again also. I was amazed w/ how many lurkers savior had, it had to be more than 50 over the course of the game. btw did anyone else notice Ra targeting his own reavers and picking them in the shuttle to kill the lurker with splash damage? Its insane how they do tricks like that so casually.
Also I have to comment a bit about Savior's style. During the savior-ra game, i noticed savior was positioning large numbers of units in different areas of the map, a style ive not seen among ANY other progamer. Savior's timing attacks and strategy complements the zerg style so much; he can pretty much bring his entire army to bear on an opponent at any given point in the map at virtually any time he wants because of these little proxy armies. For a zerg player, who usually already has to manage 5 bases or more at a given time, thats just freaking amazing. Theres also the little things too, like him expanding the creep all over the map so that his units regenerate faster, and the positioning of the hydras to intercept incoming shuttles. It really feels that the other programers are way behind him in terms of strategic preparation and map understanding, especially now with boxer gone. I dont think Savior will be upstaged any time soon. Iris is lucky to be practicing with this guy.
On February 28 2007 10:16 fig_newbie wrote: Theres also the little things too, like him expanding the creep all over the map so that his units regenerate faster,
I'm pretty sure units don't regenerate faster on creep.
On February 28 2007 10:16 fig_newbie wrote: Theres also the little things too, like him expanding the creep all over the map so that his units regenerate faster,
I'm pretty sure units don't regenerate faster on creep.
On February 28 2007 09:53 {88}iNcontroL wrote: recently watched savior's epic game vs ra... so many lurkers for so long. I see what you guys mean by mid control boringness. Bisu tends to be a heavy reaver user though, perhaps a nice counter? We will see.
That would be sexy if your speculation is true.
I'd just like to see one Savior ZvP without a whored map middle, or whored sunkens. That's all I ask.
On February 28 2007 10:16 fig_newbie wrote: Theres also the little things too, like him expanding the creep all over the map so that his units regenerate faster,
I'm pretty sure units don't regenerate faster on creep.
well ill be goddamned. ive been under that impression since 1.2. -_-
On February 28 2007 10:16 fig_newbie wrote: Theres also the little things too, like him expanding the creep all over the map so that his units regenerate faster,
I'm pretty sure units don't regenerate faster on creep.
well ill be goddamned. ive been under that impression since 1.2. -_-
On February 28 2007 09:53 {88}iNcontroL wrote: recently watched savior's epic game vs ra... so many lurkers for so long. I see what you guys mean by mid control boringness. Bisu tends to be a heavy reaver user though, perhaps a nice counter? We will see.
That would be sexy if your speculation is true.
I'd just like to see one Savior ZvP without a whored map middle, or whored sunkens. That's all I ask.
If you don't whore the middle and don't whore sunkens then you basically have all your units sitting at home???
On February 28 2007 09:53 {88}iNcontroL wrote: recently watched savior's epic game vs ra... so many lurkers for so long. I see what you guys mean by mid control boringness. Bisu tends to be a heavy reaver user though, perhaps a nice counter? We will see.
That would be sexy if your speculation is true.
I'd just like to see one Savior ZvP without a whored map middle, or whored sunkens. That's all I ask.
If you don't whore the middle and don't whore sunkens then you basically have all your units sitting at home???
Nah, savior will have most of his units in the opponents base.
On February 28 2007 09:53 {88}iNcontroL wrote: recently watched savior's epic game vs ra... so many lurkers for so long. I see what you guys mean by mid control boringness. Bisu tends to be a heavy reaver user though, perhaps a nice counter? We will see.
That would be sexy if your speculation is true.
I'd just like to see one Savior ZvP without a whored map middle, or whored sunkens. That's all I ask.
If you don't whore the middle and don't whore sunkens then you basically have all your units sitting at home???
Savior is a great player, I'm not going to get into this debate. His ZvP is boring when compared to cowboys like Jju and Chojja when he was good.
Don't let my Savior hating ruin this topic. Hopefully we see great games...I'm just saying, it's not likely.
i think im not even gonna get up and just sleep, get up later and have a quick look at the live report thread just to see that im right about this being a horrible final
On February 28 2007 09:53 {88}iNcontroL wrote: recently watched savior's epic game vs ra... so many lurkers for so long. I see what you guys mean by mid control boringness. Bisu tends to be a heavy reaver user though, perhaps a nice counter? We will see.
That would be sexy if your speculation is true.
I'd just like to see one Savior ZvP without a whored map middle, or whored sunkens. That's all I ask.
If you don't whore the middle and don't whore sunkens then you basically have all your units sitting at home???
Savior is a great player, I'm not going to get into this debate. His ZvP is boring when compared to cowboys like Jju and Chojja when he was good.
Don't let my Savior hating ruin this topic. Hopefully we see great games...I'm just saying, it's not likely.
Tsss, you just hate any Z player as long as they do well ZvP anyway
Julyzerg's/Jaedong's ZvP is the only "fun" type of ZvPs I have ever seen. Hell, I think even hydra sniping Silver is more fun to watch than savior make so many lurkers, and do so many smart tactics it makes PvZ look impossible.
Really though, I dont think he has played enough or shown enough of a game style to really be called something. I mean im sure there are some nicknames that are pointless and vague in their ability to really define how he plays but dude just seems like a pretty good protoss who maybe makes some good timing attacks to me.
On February 28 2007 15:30 Carnac wrote: i think im not even gonna get up and just sleep, get up later and have a quick look at the live report thread just to see that im right about this being a horrible final
Me too. Is this on tonight? Im not planning on staying up or waking up super early for this one: /
On February 28 2007 15:30 Carnac wrote: i think im not even gonna get up and just sleep, get up later and have a quick look at the live report thread just to see that im right about this being a horrible final
Me too. Is this on tonight? Im not planning on staying up or waking up super early for this one: /
Very interesting. I wish all your posts were like that
Iirc, he's known for his crazy ass micro and multitasking. Aggressive, and a total mid-game master. Most of his games are pretty much straightforward, thats why I like to call him reach on steroids :O
On February 28 2007 16:35 QuietIdiot wrote: Julyzerg's/Jaedong's ZvP is the only "fun" type of ZvPs I have ever seen. Hell, I think even hydra sniping Silver is more fun to watch than savior make so many lurkers, and do so many smart tactics it makes PvZ look impossible.
the "fun" jaedong that turtles to ultra vs free only to get raped by army with reaver in it? turtle-->ultra-->loss is "fun"?
On February 28 2007 16:32 Bladox wrote: I'm missing some semi finals like reach vs yellow on maps like sin gaema gowon
ah, real men fighting on a manly map. I miss that as well.
I look forward to the finals. I want to see Bisu play aggressive protoss and stomp on sAviOr. Instead of sAviOr having JUST enough to defend, I want to see him have BARELY not enough. and... yes. I want to see sAviOr CRY.
My dream: Bisu revives 2 gate, one base protoss play and rapes Savior with manly zealots and archons Garimtoss style.
My expectation: Savior completely neuters Bisu and makes him look like a complete noob incapable of doing jack, then proceeds to rape the living shit out of him with ultra/ling/defiler/queen/scourge/kitchen sink
If savior somehow loses he wont cry. Anyone that makes nada look like a rookie in an OSL final could care less of they lose MSL. Especially if you have won it 3 times already.
On March 01 2007 22:46 Aphelion02 wrote: My dream: Bisu revives 2 gate, one base protoss play and rapes Savior with manly zealots and archons Garimtoss style.
My expectation: Savior completely neuters Bisu and makes him look like a complete noob incapable of doing jack, then proceeds to rape the living shit out of him with ultra/ling/defiler/queen/scourge/kitchen sink
On February 28 2007 09:53 {88}iNcontroL wrote: recently watched savior's epic game vs ra... so many lurkers for so long. I see what you guys mean by mid control boringness. Bisu tends to be a heavy reaver user though, perhaps a nice counter? We will see.
That would be sexy if your speculation is true.
I'd just like to see one Savior ZvP without a whored map middle, or whored sunkens. That's all I ask.
If you don't whore the middle and don't whore sunkens then you basically have all your units sitting at home???
Savior is a great player, I'm not going to get into this debate. His ZvP is boring when compared to cowboys like Jju and Chojja when he was good.
Don't let my Savior hating ruin this topic. Hopefully we see great games...I'm just saying, it's not likely.
Meh, generaly its the quality of the OTHER player that makes a savior game good.. ie the opponents aggression, the opponents good moves etc.. savior just plays the game and wins... !
On March 02 2007 00:02 Nal_RaisL337 wrote: If savior somehow loses he wont cry. Anyone that makes nada look like a rookie in an OSL final could care less of they lose MSL. Especially if you have won it 3 times already.
thats not the attitude of a champion. savior is a champion and i can guarantee you thats not how he feels about the MSL.
On February 28 2007 09:53 {88}iNcontroL wrote: recently watched savior's epic game vs ra... so many lurkers for so long. I see what you guys mean by mid control boringness. Bisu tends to be a heavy reaver user though, perhaps a nice counter? We will see.
That would be sexy if your speculation is true.
I'd just like to see one Savior ZvP without a whored map middle, or whored sunkens. That's all I ask.
If you don't whore the middle and don't whore sunkens then you basically have all your units sitting at home???
Savior is a great player, I'm not going to get into this debate. His ZvP is boring when compared to cowboys like Jju and Chojja when he was good.
Don't let my Savior hating ruin this topic. Hopefully we see great games...I'm just saying, it's not likely.
Meh, generaly its the quality of the OTHER player that makes a savior game good.. ie the opponents aggression, the opponents good moves etc.. savior just plays the game and wins... !
lol, let's see what the beauty nowdays is:
- when he makes drones, when he does not need fighting units - when the opponent is overaggressive&he's defending with minimal possoble army and static defence - when the opponent has a lead & he builds up while buying time with small skirmishes - when the opponent has a lead and goes in and he decides to go for elimination race - when the opponent drops and attacks simultaneously and he [defends the drop; defends the attack; drops himself; attacks undefended expos] - when [add yourself].... __________________________________________ when all of these are done in the right way, the right moment, the latest possible moment, etc,etc, it IS the true beauty of SC. forget the times, when 1 singel well-microed fight (even if HE didn't macro at all) meant the beauty: nowdays every pro can be like that!
On March 02 2007 00:02 Nal_RaisL337 wrote: If savior somehow loses he wont cry. Anyone that makes nada look like a rookie in an OSL final could care less of they lose MSL. Especially if you have won it 3 times already.
thats not the attitude of a champion. savior is a champion and i can guarantee you thats not how he feels about the MSL.
Not a pre-hype thread... someone else better qualified to make one please do so. But a few tidbits about the upcoming MSL finals
I know im not better qualified, but i could have edited and made it better, if you wouldn't have closed it, i made it because he says here its NOT a hype thread, yet he put HYPE in the name, i was super confused
So did sAviOr end up beating Bisu? I figure he would have a good chance of winning, since Bisu has horrendous PvZ and sAviOr is probably the Messiah of Brood War.
On September 18 2013 11:09 SynC[gm] wrote: Yeh, dat 6 year bump~
So did sAviOr end up beating Bisu? I figure he would have a good chance of winning, since Bisu has horrendous PvZ and sAviOr is probably the Messiah of Brood War.
you know, if I recall, I think he did but I could be wrong
On September 18 2013 11:09 SynC[gm] wrote: Yeh, dat 6 year bump~
So did sAviOr end up beating Bisu? I figure he would have a good chance of winning, since Bisu has horrendous PvZ and sAviOr is probably the Messiah of Brood War.
I also find it strange that for 11 pages of thread not a single person thought that Bisu will win. I mean, okay, Savior looked godly, but wasn't there even one blind MBC Game Hero / Bisu fanboy to stand up and speak? Or at least Savior anti-fan? Weird.
EPT
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