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Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
July 29 2013 22:09 GMT
#201
You guys don't think "Hey, lets do the exact same thing as this but call it something different" actually changes anything, do you?
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
floladriblere
Profile Joined August 2011
France85 Posts
July 29 2013 22:17 GMT
#202
On July 30 2013 05:17 EchOne wrote:
Tentative Team Courage roster:

:race: <iCCup ID> (Max: <Lifetime Max Rank> ID: <TL ID>)

*Captain*
Sentenal (Max: C- ID: Sentenal)

*Players*
Nagisama (Max: C- ID: Nagisama)
snipin_panda (Max: C- ID: snipinpanda)
Wala.Revolution (Max: C- ID: DryWater)
ghrur (Max: C- ID: aeghrur)
tonight (Max: C- ID: massgame)
EchOne (Max: D ID: prophecy_)
Epoxide (Max: D ID: ???)

We might be joined later by KazeHydra and SniperTerran but they are indisposed atm.



Nice CRTL team! Oh wait...
boum su4ka!
tonight
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States11130 Posts
July 29 2013 22:18 GMT
#203
if everyone played enough games here they would hit C- it's not really saying much
if I come without a thing, then I come with all I need @tonightsend
tonight
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States11130 Posts
July 29 2013 22:22 GMT
#204
On July 30 2013 06:13 rauk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2013 06:06 Sentenal wrote:
On July 30 2013 06:00 rauk wrote:
your trueskill rating puts you at approximately the same strength as lmaster or aeghrur or any random c- player from the league

IDK wtf trueskill is, but it is true hes never gotten above D on Iccup. Iccup ranks don't reflect skill anyway, so I don't see the point of people 'wtf'ing at Echo not lying when he says what he has ladder on Iccup before.

On July 30 2013 03:46 arb wrote:
On July 30 2013 03:34 Sentenal wrote:
On July 30 2013 02:42 arb wrote:
On July 30 2013 01:57 Sentenal wrote:
On July 29 2013 12:47 Birdie wrote:
On July 29 2013 12:06 EchOne wrote:
I'm not participating in an event where one person runs 2 teams.

I won't be running the other team, Arca will most likely.

Yeah, that barely makes any difference.

I'm confused about why people are so fucking butthurt over this, its really ridiculous

it's not like we're playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars where match fixing would actually have a purpose, i dont think anyone cares enough about winning to fix games. Like someone said earlier have them play each other at the start if thats the case, fucks sake.

Yeah, you are right, we aren't playing for money, so fuxk rules, organization, and integretity. Lets allow hackers and smurfs into the league as well, its not like there is money involved, so apparently that makes it okay.

It's not even the same thing, half of you arguing for the sake of arguing. What do they have to gain by match fixing? Nothing.
Thats assuming these random internet players(that have never met/never will) are going to willingly throw games so that other people they dont know can win. And I think the chance of that happening drops dramatically to basically be non existent when you factor in theres no prize for them to win if they do decide to rig games(which im 100% certain wouldnt happen)

What does anyone have to gain by cheating (in any form what so ever) in this league? Nothing. No money involved. Therefore, since no one has any monetary motivations in this league, we should get rid of all of our rules. You have opened my eyes.


Anyway, if there are 2 sB teams this season, there probably won't a Courage team. I'm with Echo, and I doubt anyone else on the team wants to step up and captain, so thats that..


http://malcolmsharpe.github.io/iccup-ratings/html/leaderboard.html

rating system similar in idea to elo but with different calculations

he might deliberately not ladder so he's not better than "d" but it's pretty clear he's much better than that

also if the second SB team is made up entirely of the new recruits that birdie says he found, what is the motivation for them to cheat for birdie? basically none


How do you even find people on that thing?
if I come without a thing, then I come with all I need @tonightsend
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17921 Posts
July 29 2013 22:23 GMT
#205
On July 30 2013 07:22 tonight wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2013 06:13 rauk wrote:
On July 30 2013 06:06 Sentenal wrote:
On July 30 2013 06:00 rauk wrote:
your trueskill rating puts you at approximately the same strength as lmaster or aeghrur or any random c- player from the league

IDK wtf trueskill is, but it is true hes never gotten above D on Iccup. Iccup ranks don't reflect skill anyway, so I don't see the point of people 'wtf'ing at Echo not lying when he says what he has ladder on Iccup before.

On July 30 2013 03:46 arb wrote:
On July 30 2013 03:34 Sentenal wrote:
On July 30 2013 02:42 arb wrote:
On July 30 2013 01:57 Sentenal wrote:
On July 29 2013 12:47 Birdie wrote:
On July 29 2013 12:06 EchOne wrote:
I'm not participating in an event where one person runs 2 teams.

I won't be running the other team, Arca will most likely.

Yeah, that barely makes any difference.

I'm confused about why people are so fucking butthurt over this, its really ridiculous

it's not like we're playing for hundreds of thousands of dollars where match fixing would actually have a purpose, i dont think anyone cares enough about winning to fix games. Like someone said earlier have them play each other at the start if thats the case, fucks sake.

Yeah, you are right, we aren't playing for money, so fuxk rules, organization, and integretity. Lets allow hackers and smurfs into the league as well, its not like there is money involved, so apparently that makes it okay.

It's not even the same thing, half of you arguing for the sake of arguing. What do they have to gain by match fixing? Nothing.
Thats assuming these random internet players(that have never met/never will) are going to willingly throw games so that other people they dont know can win. And I think the chance of that happening drops dramatically to basically be non existent when you factor in theres no prize for them to win if they do decide to rig games(which im 100% certain wouldnt happen)

What does anyone have to gain by cheating (in any form what so ever) in this league? Nothing. No money involved. Therefore, since no one has any monetary motivations in this league, we should get rid of all of our rules. You have opened my eyes.


Anyway, if there are 2 sB teams this season, there probably won't a Courage team. I'm with Echo, and I doubt anyone else on the team wants to step up and captain, so thats that..


http://malcolmsharpe.github.io/iccup-ratings/html/leaderboard.html

rating system similar in idea to elo but with different calculations

he might deliberately not ladder so he's not better than "d" but it's pretty clear he's much better than that

also if the second SB team is made up entirely of the new recruits that birdie says he found, what is the motivation for them to cheat for birdie? basically none


How do you even find people on that thing?

ctrl + f
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
ggrrg
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Bulgaria2716 Posts
July 29 2013 22:24 GMT
#206
On July 30 2013 07:18 tonight wrote:
if everyone played enough games here they would hit C- it's not really saying much


With enough games one can hit C- with less than 50% winrate playing only against D opponents without motw. By playing only D+ opponents and motw you can hit C- with 30% winrate...
EchOne
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States2906 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-29 22:26:13
July 29 2013 22:25 GMT
#207
On July 30 2013 07:17 floladriblere wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2013 05:17 EchOne wrote:
Tentative Team Courage roster:

:race: <iCCup ID> (Max: <Lifetime Max Rank> ID: <TL ID>)

*Captain*
Sentenal (Max: C- ID: Sentenal)

*Players*
Nagisama (Max: C- ID: Nagisama)
snipin_panda (Max: C- ID: snipinpanda)
Wala.Revolution (Max: C- ID: DryWater)
ghrur (Max: C- ID: aeghrur)
tonight (Max: C- ID: massgame)
EchOne (Max: D ID: prophecy_)
Epoxide (Max: D ID: ???)

We might be joined later by KazeHydra and SniperTerran but they are indisposed atm.



Nice CRTL team! Oh wait...

Either C- players can play, or they cannot. Since there are several C- players listed in the OP, I'm assuming the former.
面白くない世の中, 面白くすればいいさ
rauk
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States2228 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-29 22:36:53
July 29 2013 22:35 GMT
#208
On July 30 2013 07:09 Sentenal wrote:
You guys don't think "Hey, lets do the exact same thing as this but call it something different" actually changes anything, do you?


exactly

so what i'm asking is if, before any mention of a 2nd SB team or anything, arca had said "i don't like birdie, i'm making my own team" and make his own team, would that have been acceptable? and if that is acceptable, why isn't 2 SB teams acceptable since they're essentially equivalent?

what if i decided i wanted to captain my own DRTL team this season? would you say "no, you used to play for despa, so you aren't allowed to"
ggrrg
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Bulgaria2716 Posts
July 29 2013 22:38 GMT
#209
On July 30 2013 07:25 EchOne wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2013 07:17 floladriblere wrote:
On July 30 2013 05:17 EchOne wrote:
Tentative Team Courage roster:

:race: <iCCup ID> (Max: <Lifetime Max Rank> ID: <TL ID>)

*Captain*
Sentenal (Max: C- ID: Sentenal)

*Players*
Nagisama (Max: C- ID: Nagisama)
snipin_panda (Max: C- ID: snipinpanda)
Wala.Revolution (Max: C- ID: DryWater)
ghrur (Max: C- ID: aeghrur)
tonight (Max: C- ID: massgame)
EchOne (Max: D ID: prophecy_)
Epoxide (Max: D ID: ???)

We might be joined later by KazeHydra and SniperTerran but they are indisposed atm.



Nice CRTL team! Oh wait...

Either C- players can play, or they cannot. Since there are several C- players listed in the OP, I'm assuming the former.


That's a reasonable assumption
...unlike some others made in the thread
Dazed.
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada3301 Posts
July 29 2013 23:05 GMT
#210
On July 30 2013 07:35 rauk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2013 07:09 Sentenal wrote:
You guys don't think "Hey, lets do the exact same thing as this but call it something different" actually changes anything, do you?


exactly

so what i'm asking is if, before any mention of a 2nd SB team or anything, arca had said "i don't like birdie, i'm making my own team" and make his own team, would that have been acceptable? and if that is acceptable, why isn't 2 SB teams acceptable since they're essentially equivalent?

what if i decided i wanted to captain my own DRTL team this season? would you say "no, you used to play for despa, so you aren't allowed to"
The concern is that friends and ex teammates have a greater likelihood and incentive to conspire in order to aid one another. If it were true that Arca, and many of his future teammates were not friends with Birde and his remaining teammates, then yes, it would change the entire nature of the situation. But note, it would change the situation entirely, we are not in that position whatsoever.
Never say Die! ||| Fight you? No, I want to kill you.
rauk
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States2228 Posts
July 29 2013 23:30 GMT
#211
We aren't? I thought the issue was that sb had too many new guys who wouldn't have an opportunity to play
Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
July 29 2013 23:41 GMT
#212
On July 30 2013 08:05 Dazed_Spy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2013 07:35 rauk wrote:
On July 30 2013 07:09 Sentenal wrote:
You guys don't think "Hey, lets do the exact same thing as this but call it something different" actually changes anything, do you?


exactly

so what i'm asking is if, before any mention of a 2nd SB team or anything, arca had said "i don't like birdie, i'm making my own team" and make his own team, would that have been acceptable? and if that is acceptable, why isn't 2 SB teams acceptable since they're essentially equivalent?

what if i decided i wanted to captain my own DRTL team this season? would you say "no, you used to play for despa, so you aren't allowed to"
The concern is that friends and ex teammates have a greater likelihood and incentive to conspire in order to aid one another. If it were true that Arca, and many of his future teammates were not friends with Birde and his remaining teammates, then yes, it would change the entire nature of the situation. But note, it would change the situation entirely, we are not in that position whatsoever.

We're basically in that position, in that it would be Arca and probably TheMarine running the second team, and the members would be new people to sB, so in that sense they're not longtime friends.
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
KazeHydra
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Japan2788 Posts
July 29 2013 23:54 GMT
#213
On July 30 2013 07:24 ggrrg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2013 07:18 tonight wrote:
if everyone played enough games here they would hit C- it's not really saying much


With enough games one can hit C- with less than 50% winrate playing only against D opponents without motw. By playing only D+ opponents and motw you can hit C- with 30% winrate...

I have 0% winrate vs D+ opponents \o/

Also Echo, I'll be able to play some weeks so just add me to roster. Probably will disappear again near end of Sept.
"Because I know this promise that won’t disappear will turn even a cause of tears into strength. You taught me that if I can believe, there is nothing that cannot come true." - Nana Mizuki (Yakusoku) 17:36 ils kaze got me into nana 17:36 ils by his blog
SynC[gm]
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States3127 Posts
July 30 2013 02:36 GMT
#214
I'm pretty sure everyone is set on the fact that if Stealth Bunnies go through with the 2-team plan, that Courage won't play. So I guess this is just a matter of Birdie deciding on whether or not Courage is going to play? I don't see either side getting convinced for the other point...

Also, Birdie, to your point about having 8-9 teams, obviously, that's what happened DRTL4, but look at all the walkovers that happened and the entire NW Power fiasco. I'm pretty sure most of us can agree on the fact that the league isn't really focused on "getting D-/D players to get better" anymore. We're all out to win, which is a fair goal to set, but lets not put out the bullshit excuse that this person or the other person wants D-/D players to come in here and have a merry good time losing all day long to D+/C- players, and improving enough overnight to beat said D+/C- players the next day.

As Echo said, Lmaster should finally set this in stone; players that have hit C-, or are very close to C-, are allowed to play or shouldn't be allowed to play. Goes for TAKK, for myself, for Lmaster himself, and for everyone that plans on participating.
twitch.tv/dizzywee
L_Master
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States8017 Posts
July 30 2013 02:50 GMT
#215
Okay, few things:

1)Two teams captained by different people with different, set rosters is acceptable to me. That's perfectly reasonable, and doesn't set a bad precedent as I see it. There is nothing wrong with a team becoming too big and fragmenting into smaller teams with seperate captains and rosters.
2)Wala and Panda are definitly not eligible to play. I'm probably allowing previous DRTL players to play for the sake of keeping the league in tact, but definitely not allowing in former yellow ranks or new yellow ranks...even if they have been inactive.
EffOrt and Soulkey Hwaiting!
Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-30 02:58:59
July 30 2013 02:58 GMT
#216
Courage won't be participating this DRTL, then. Have fun with the league, everyone who is.
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
tonight
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States11130 Posts
July 30 2013 03:00 GMT
#217
son of a bitch
if I come without a thing, then I come with all I need @tonightsend
tonight
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States11130 Posts
July 30 2013 03:01 GMT
#218
what teams are still available?
if I come without a thing, then I come with all I need @tonightsend
Birdie
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
New Zealand4438 Posts
July 30 2013 03:01 GMT
#219
On July 30 2013 11:58 Sentenal wrote:
Courage won't be participating this DRTL, then. Have fun with the league, everyone who is.

I haven't actually confirmed that there will be two teams, this was all an idea, and it somewhat relies on me finding three more players. I have too many for one team and not quite enough for two, I'd suggest you wait until we find out if I can find enough players or not.
Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!
Sentenal
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States12398 Posts
July 30 2013 03:04 GMT
#220
K, well in the event you do find those players, Courage won't be participating.
"Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne
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