Team 8 winning would be the best thing tonight since that would mean my KT boys pull ahead of the SKT1 evil empire and the underdogs Team 8 still keeping up their miracle streak.
agh, team 8 vs skt... guess i gotta go for skt : / just hope bisu can finally get his first sc2 win (if he plays) and fanta can pull through. but jesus, the dong in ace is so scary.
JD breaks through the blocking Gateway with his Hydras. Lings stream in, and the defending Zealots and Cannons are decimated. Best has nothing left to fend off the zerg.
I can't remember where I heard this, but I'm pretty sure I've heard that all in referred to as Hyuk's build. I feel like it was from the korean commentators though on some game on neo brave chain reaction, but it would had to have been translated or subbed or something.
Void ray builds seem to rarely work nowadays, don't even know what Jaehoon was thinking since all he had to do was play standard and he would have had a better chance. Was this a response to expecting 1-1-1 ? Even then early expos into robo are better at dealing with it that this.
On August 12 2012 16:09 WickedBit wrote: Void ray builds seem to rarely work nowadays, don't even know what Jaehoon was thinking since all he had to do was play standard and he would have had a better chance. Was this a response to expecting 1-1-1 ? Even then early expos into robo are better at dealing with it that this.
Void Ray all-ins work better when you proxy the stargate and get 3 gates in time together. I don't exactly know what Jaehoon was doing. Maybe you're right that he was expecting a 1-1-1 when he saw only 1 gas... but I agree. It would have been better to get a robo, and check it out. OR just FE and check later with obs. Jaehoon just seemed so fucking confused.
On August 12 2012 16:18 Elroi wrote: rofl 15 hat < 15 pool?
Well in SC2 15 Hat doesn't give you a big advantage , because with the 15 pool you get the earlier queens .
Well queen. You get 1 earlier queen while with 15 hatch you start both at same time but a little delayed. You can also start mining at natural faster obviously with hatch first.
The players were pretty much identical for most of the game, but Ryul2's mix of Hydras allowed him to do a great push against Soo's 4th, plus Soo sent a detachment of units to snipe the nat and harass Ryul2's main. However, Ryul2 was able to kill off Soo's 4th and 3rd with his push while Soo was only able to deny Ryul2's main and nat. However, Ryul2's 3rd and 4th were fresh with minerals, while Soo had to rely on his main and nat that were rapidly mining out.
Soo wasn't too far behind in supply after they traded some expos, but Ryul2 was able to play defensively from then on and maintain his lead, forcing Soo's GG after his last failed attack.
On August 12 2012 16:36 ImNightmare wrote: lol, I hope they send out bisu. I wanna sleep soon
Good night?
Awwww shiettttttttttt THEY DID IT!
Not all that surprising given that Sun was unavailable. Bisu's such a big part of SKT's success, so they just have to keep giving him opportunities to learn and gain confidence in SC2.
On August 12 2012 16:36 ImNightmare wrote: lol, I hope they send out bisu. I wanna sleep soon
Good night?
Awwww shiettttttttttt THEY DID IT!
Not all that surprising given that Sun was unavailable. Bisu's such a big part of SKT's success, so they just have to keep giving him opportunities to learn and gain confidence in SC2.
He doesn't seem to be gaining confidence yo.. Sure he may win this game and it will be a slap to my face, but it just seems like he doesn't like the way protoss is played in 2. understandable since BW toss is so different from 2 toss
Looks like a 1-1-1 so far... probably the hardest build for a protoss to deal with. Seems like Bisu cannot catch a break in SC2! Edit: nevermind looks like hellions and proxied factory. So not 1-1-1.
On August 12 2012 16:52 raf3776 wrote: Bisu hasnt won a sc2 game in PL right?
You are correct.
On one hand, I don't want Bisu to remain winless. On the other hand, I want Sea and Team 8 to win.
Sea scouts Bisu's Robo Facility with a floating Factory. Bisu building a Forge and Support Bay. Sea getting Stim, Combat Shields, and +1 infantry attack.
Double Drop from Sea gets deflected by some Stalkers waiting in the main, but is able to force a cancel on Bisu's 3rd. Bisu getting Storm and Zealot Charge. Bisu is able to kill the hidden 3rd.
A small army of Bisu is caught out of position in the middle of the map. Bisu loses a Colossus and is barely able to save another.
I don't know enough about sc2 to say whether it was a good game or not, but I think it was interesting. But also I think Sea is certainly not one of the better sc2 players in PL?
It's like Sea saw Taeja's "keep attacking to keep trading armies all game" style, and missed the "because you have a better econ" part. He just keeps pulling SCVs over and over and over against Storms.
Bisu finally wins an SC2 game, thanks mainly to Sea.
On August 12 2012 17:02 jaQi wrote: I don't know enough about sc2 to say whether it was a good game or not, but I think it was interesting. But also I think Sea is certainly not one of the better sc2 players in PL?
It was an interesting game sure but it was also fairly dumb. Sea made a lot of very very questionable decisions.
On August 12 2012 17:04 Obelisco wrote: Sea was like, huh i have eco advantage? better start suiciding scvs until i die
Any eco advantage was negated when Sea lost his hidden base.. PLUS all the units that died for almost nothing. The game was somewhat even a little in Bisu's favor because of army, and tech advantage (2 Collosus when no Vikings are out). But, Bisu then lost that lead when he threw away 2 collosus, and some gateway army.
Sea was probably like, I killed 2 collosus, most of the gateway army (especially Sentries) are gone, I have 5 rax full of production. If I pull some scv's I can kill the Protoss before they power up too much.
Not the most optimal strategy, but I can only imagine that's what he thought lol.
I know it's not fair to compare PL Terrans to Taeja, but I can't stop doing it. I guess that's what happens when you watch a ten-hour TAC match.
Sea's on a different level from most pro SC2 Terrans. It's not a higher level, I guess, but it's different. I suppose I should cheer PL players for being creative, because a few of them will be creative in a good way, but pulling SCVs against storm is really silly, and I don't understand the thought process. It's not like Sea was far behind. If anything, he was slightly ahead economically.
Did Sun play in WCS? I was about to say he didn't do well there, but I don't see him on the brackets. Jaedong went 0-2 to Alive, but he looked really good during it (and Alive is really good), and Jaedong in the Ace match is starting to get legendary.
On August 12 2012 17:10 Ribbon wrote: I know it's not fair to compare PL Terrans to Taeja, but I can't stop doing it. I guess that's what happens when you watch a ten-hour TAC match.
Sea's on a different level from most pro SC2 Terrans. It's not a higher level, I guess, but it's different. I suppose I should cheer PL players for being creative, because a few of them will be creative in a good way, but pulling SCVs against storm is really silly, and I don't understand the thought process. It's not like Sea was far behind. If anything, he was slightly ahead economically.
Did Sun play in WCS? I was about to say he didn't do well there, but I don't see him on the brackets. Jaedong went 0-2 to Alive, but he looked really good during it (and Alive is really good), and Jaedong in the Ace match is starting to get legendary.
On August 12 2012 17:09 Bruky wrote: Sun is zerg killer. He has 75% winrate in PvZ in SC2
Oh dear... so he is the sniper? This is why I hope they don't use jaedong so often in Ace matches. Just opens him up to being sniped
Sun has been our SC2 Ace pretty much from Day 1 of this season. He's not being sent in specifically as a sniper, he would've been sent anyway b/c he's SKT's best SC2 player.
On August 12 2012 17:09 Bruky wrote: Sun is zerg killer. He has 75% winrate in PvZ in SC2
Oh dear... so he is the sniper? This is why I hope they don't use jaedong so often in Ace matches. Just opens him up to being sniped
Sun has been our SC2 Ace pretty much from Day 1 of this season. He's not being sent in specifically as a sniper, he would've been sent anyway b/c he's SKT's best SC2 player.
Is he good? I have never watched SKT's games in sc2.lol.
On August 12 2012 17:09 Bruky wrote: Sun is zerg killer. He has 75% winrate in PvZ in SC2
Oh dear... so he is the sniper? This is why I hope they don't use jaedong so often in Ace matches. Just opens him up to being sniped
Sun has been our SC2 Ace pretty much from Day 1 of this season. He's not being sent in specifically as a sniper, he would've been sent anyway b/c he's SKT's best SC2 player.
Is he good? I have never watched SKT's games in sc2.lol.
JD looked better in the recent Bliz tournament, but Sun is definitely decent.
On August 12 2012 17:09 Bruky wrote: Sun is zerg killer. He has 75% winrate in PvZ in SC2
Oh dear... so he is the sniper? This is why I hope they don't use jaedong so often in Ace matches. Just opens him up to being sniped
Sun has been our SC2 Ace pretty much from Day 1 of this season. He's not being sent in specifically as a sniper, he would've been sent anyway b/c he's SKT's best SC2 player.
Is he good? I have never watched SKT's games in sc2.lol.
He's quite solid, he has one of the best PL records if not the best.
On August 12 2012 17:09 Bruky wrote: Sun is zerg killer. He has 75% winrate in PvZ in SC2
Oh dear... so he is the sniper? This is why I hope they don't use jaedong so often in Ace matches. Just opens him up to being sniped
Sun has been our SC2 Ace pretty much from Day 1 of this season. He's not being sent in specifically as a sniper, he would've been sent anyway b/c he's SKT's best SC2 player.
Is he good? I have never watched SKT's games in sc2.lol.
On August 12 2012 17:04 Obelisco wrote: Sea was like, huh i have eco advantage? better start suiciding scvs until i die
Any eco advantage was negated when Sea lost his hidden base.. PLUS all the units that died for almost nothing. The game was somewhat even a little in Bisu's favor because of army, and tech advantage (2 Collosus when no Vikings are out). But, Bisu then lost that lead when he threw away 2 collosus, and some gateway army.
Sea was probably like, I killed 2 collosus, most of the gateway army (especially Sentries) are gone, I have 5 rax full of production. If I pull some scv's I can kill the Protoss before they power up too much.
Not the most optimal strategy, but I can only imagine that's what he thought lol.
I know I'm harping on the Taeja thing, but he's playing a completely different game then other Terrans, and it's starting to convince me all the other PL and GSL Terrans are playing the game wrong, and that was a good example of wrong play. But I have trouble putting into words why. Day[9] did a daily on Taeja's TvZ where he talked about how everything Taeja did was not to do damage but to maintain control. I see bits of that in his TvP as well, where he only cares about killing Tripods/Templar and fuck the gateway units who gives a shit if I lose the battle. PL (and many GSL) players are all about "and then I kill him", but that way leads to overextension and throwing away leads.
If I were smarter, I feel like I could learn a lot of comparing the Bisu/Sea game to the Taeja/Yonghwa game earlier today.
On August 12 2012 17:04 Obelisco wrote: Sea was like, huh i have eco advantage? better start suiciding scvs until i die
Any eco advantage was negated when Sea lost his hidden base.. PLUS all the units that died for almost nothing. The game was somewhat even a little in Bisu's favor because of army, and tech advantage (2 Collosus when no Vikings are out). But, Bisu then lost that lead when he threw away 2 collosus, and some gateway army.
Sea was probably like, I killed 2 collosus, most of the gateway army (especially Sentries) are gone, I have 5 rax full of production. If I pull some scv's I can kill the Protoss before they power up too much.
Not the most optimal strategy, but I can only imagine that's what he thought lol.
I know I'm harping on the Taeja thing, but he's playing a completely different game then other Terrans, and it's starting to convince me all the other PL and GSL Terrans are playing the game wrong, and that was a good example of wrong play. But I have trouble putting into words why. Day[9] did a daily on Taeja's TvZ where he talked about how everything Taeja did was not to do damage but to maintain control. I see bits of that in his TvP as well, where he only cares about killing Tripods/Templar and fuck the gateway units who gives a shit if I lose the battle. PL (and many GSL) players are all about "and then I kill him", but that way leads to overextension and throwing away leads.
If I were smarter, I feel like I could learn a lot of comparing the Bisu/Sea game to the Taeja/Yonghwa game earlier today.
You might want to focus less on Day9's analysis. That guy contradicts himself. I like him, but he isn't like the ultimate encyclopedia in sc2.
On August 12 2012 17:04 Obelisco wrote: Sea was like, huh i have eco advantage? better start suiciding scvs until i die
Any eco advantage was negated when Sea lost his hidden base.. PLUS all the units that died for almost nothing. The game was somewhat even a little in Bisu's favor because of army, and tech advantage (2 Collosus when no Vikings are out). But, Bisu then lost that lead when he threw away 2 collosus, and some gateway army.
Sea was probably like, I killed 2 collosus, most of the gateway army (especially Sentries) are gone, I have 5 rax full of production. If I pull some scv's I can kill the Protoss before they power up too much.
Not the most optimal strategy, but I can only imagine that's what he thought lol.
I know I'm harping on the Taeja thing, but he's playing a completely different game then other Terrans, and it's starting to convince me all the other PL and GSL Terrans are playing the game wrong, and that was a good example of wrong play. But I have trouble putting into words why. Day[9] did a daily on Taeja's TvZ where he talked about how everything Taeja did was not to do damage but to maintain control. I see bits of that in his TvP as well, where he only cares about killing Tripods/Templar and fuck the gateway units who gives a shit if I lose the battle. PL (and many GSL) players are all about "and then I kill him", but that way leads to overextension and throwing away leads.
If I were smarter, I feel like I could learn a lot of comparing the Bisu/Sea game to the Taeja/Yonghwa game earlier today.
You might want to focus less on Day9's analysis. That guy contradicts himself. I like him, but he isn't like the ultimate encyclopedia in sc2.
I know, but I'm thinking more of Taeja/Yonghwa (one of the best SC2 games in a long time, incidentally) when I say all this.
On August 12 2012 17:10 Ribbon wrote: I know it's not fair to compare PL Terrans to Taeja, but I can't stop doing it. I guess that's what happens when you watch a ten-hour TAC match.
Sea's on a different level from most pro SC2 Terrans. It's not a higher level, I guess, but it's different. I suppose I should cheer PL players for being creative, because a few of them will be creative in a good way, but pulling SCVs against storm is really silly, and I don't understand the thought process. It's not like Sea was far behind. If anything, he was slightly ahead economically.
Did Sun play in WCS? I was about to say he didn't do well there, but I don't see him on the brackets. Jaedong went 0-2 to Alive, but he looked really good during it (and Alive is really good), and Jaedong in the Ace match is starting to get legendary.
Sun going up to 4 gates. Jaedong droning up hard and going for Lair at 9:00.
Sun actually going up to 6 gates. Starts researching +2 attack and Blink. JD getting Roach Speed and ling speed is almost done. +1 ranged researching for JD.
A good handful of JD Roaches gets caught by FF in front of Sun's bases. More Gates being built by Sun. JD picking away at Sun's 3rd base rocks. Sun trying to get a 3rd up.
On August 12 2012 17:34 HolydaKing wrote: fuck T_T
i thought his infestors had more energy in the mid fight T_T
They had energy but there were too few units for support. I guess the DT harass hit him harder than I thought. He should have sacked his 4th and just consolidated near his third to defend that.
On August 12 2012 17:04 Obelisco wrote: Sea was like, huh i have eco advantage? better start suiciding scvs until i die
Any eco advantage was negated when Sea lost his hidden base.. PLUS all the units that died for almost nothing. The game was somewhat even a little in Bisu's favor because of army, and tech advantage (2 Collosus when no Vikings are out). But, Bisu then lost that lead when he threw away 2 collosus, and some gateway army.
Sea was probably like, I killed 2 collosus, most of the gateway army (especially Sentries) are gone, I have 5 rax full of production. If I pull some scv's I can kill the Protoss before they power up too much.
Not the most optimal strategy, but I can only imagine that's what he thought lol.
I know I'm harping on the Taeja thing, but he's playing a completely different game then other Terrans, and it's starting to convince me all the other PL and GSL Terrans are playing the game wrong, and that was a good example of wrong play. But I have trouble putting into words why. Day[9] did a daily on Taeja's TvZ where he talked about how everything Taeja did was not to do damage but to maintain control. I see bits of that in his TvP as well, where he only cares about killing Tripods/Templar and fuck the gateway units who gives a shit if I lose the battle. PL (and many GSL) players are all about "and then I kill him", but that way leads to overextension and throwing away leads.
If I were smarter, I feel like I could learn a lot of comparing the Bisu/Sea game to the Taeja/Yonghwa game earlier today.
I'll have to watch the IM vs Liquid games from today to comment, but I Sea's decision making was indicative of bad play so to speak. MVP's done similiar things in the past similar to Sea (Parting vs MVP game 1, where MVP pulled scvs and attacked right before Storm finished, just showing some great insight from a great Terran player.
Sea knew that with him killing 2 Collosus, there was no way that Bisu would ever try and continue Collosus production as his main AoE damage, and his only choice was to move to Templar tech. This is evident when Sea had double Starport producing 3 Vikings. As soon as he killed the 2 Collosus, he made 3 medivacs. If Sea had moved out a little earlier (i.e. after killed 2 Collosus and pulled SCV's) we'd all be talking about how great Sea's SCV pull was an amazing decision, and how Bisu still hadn't won an SC2 game.
On August 12 2012 17:34 HolydaKing wrote: fuck T_T
i thought his infestors had more energy in the mid fight T_T
They had energy but there were too few units for support. I guess the DT harass hit him harder than I thought. He should have sacked his 4th and just consolidated near his third to defend that.
i feel like the DT harass could've been so much better :D it was still pretty good though... i wonder what would have happened if he went for all the hatcheries, they die so fast vs that many DTs. (and JD had no detection there for a long time)
On August 12 2012 17:36 ReketSomething wrote: zerg should honestly just make roaches pvz
just roaches ez win =.=
Yeah not really. Going mass roach style has gotten figured out by good protosses. Best way to play zvp now of days is to get faster hive and go mass bl/corr/infestor with spine support.
On August 12 2012 17:04 Obelisco wrote: Sea was like, huh i have eco advantage? better start suiciding scvs until i die
Any eco advantage was negated when Sea lost his hidden base.. PLUS all the units that died for almost nothing. The game was somewhat even a little in Bisu's favor because of army, and tech advantage (2 Collosus when no Vikings are out). But, Bisu then lost that lead when he threw away 2 collosus, and some gateway army.
Sea was probably like, I killed 2 collosus, most of the gateway army (especially Sentries) are gone, I have 5 rax full of production. If I pull some scv's I can kill the Protoss before they power up too much.
Not the most optimal strategy, but I can only imagine that's what he thought lol.
I know I'm harping on the Taeja thing, but he's playing a completely different game then other Terrans, and it's starting to convince me all the other PL and GSL Terrans are playing the game wrong, and that was a good example of wrong play. But I have trouble putting into words why. Day[9] did a daily on Taeja's TvZ where he talked about how everything Taeja did was not to do damage but to maintain control. I see bits of that in his TvP as well, where he only cares about killing Tripods/Templar and fuck the gateway units who gives a shit if I lose the battle. PL (and many GSL) players are all about "and then I kill him", but that way leads to overextension and throwing away leads.
If I were smarter, I feel like I could learn a lot of comparing the Bisu/Sea game to the Taeja/Yonghwa game earlier today.
I'll have to watch the IM vs Liquid games from today to comment, but I Sea's decision making was indicative of bad play so to speak. MVP's done similiar things in the past similar to Sea (Parting vs MVP game 1, where MVP pulled scvs and attacked right before Storm finished, just showing some great insight from a great Terran player.
Sea knew that with him killing 2 Collosus, there was no way that Bisu would ever try and continue Collosus production as his main AoE damage, and his only choice was to move to Templar tech. This is evident when Sea had double Starport producing 3 Vikings. As soon as he killed the 2 Collosus, he made 3 medivacs. If Sea had moved out a little earlier (i.e. after killed 2 Collosus and pulled SCV's) we'd all be talking about how great Sea's SCV pull was an amazing decision, and how Bisu still hadn't won an SC2 game.
He didn't kill two Tripods, he only killed one, leaving the other with 4hp
And, anyway, if Sea was ahead, why all-in? It's a completely unneeded coinflip. He could've expanded, started getting ghosts, and maybe done a little drop/poke double-prong action to try and snipe a tech unit or two.
Pulling SCVs against splash is almost completely useless for what you're losing, and if Bisu doesn't have a lot of splash, then the bio army crushes the gateway army anyway. I see Terrans pulling SCVs lategame, but I never see it winning.
On August 12 2012 17:38 IshinShishi wrote: JD literally lost to dts, he lost around 50 drones to that.
Yea, he needed to attack right away after he got overseers to kill dts. Instead he idled around with less workers...
sc2 is a game of money since defenders advantage isnt as strong
and roaches
Not really. Sun commited a fuckton of zealots and shit to kill a hatch and 2 extractors. In return, JD sniped his third and some probes. Thing is, the dead hatch was at such a location that it didn't actually interrupt mining at that base fatally. It's just... nothing makes sense any more.
On August 12 2012 17:38 IshinShishi wrote: JD literally lost to dts, he lost around 50 drones to that.
Yea, he needed to attack right away after he got overseers to kill dts. Instead he idled around with less workers...
sc2 is a game of money since defenders advantage isnt as strong
and roaches
Not really. Sun commited a fuckton of zealots and shit to kill a hatch and 2 extractors. In return, JD sniped his third and some probes. Thing is, the dead hatch was at such a location that it didn't actually interrupt mining at that base fatally. It's just... nothing makes sense any more.
Jaedong didn't have any gas mining. The extractors at the main were killed, the natural only had one drone on gas, and his 4th had extractors but no drones on them. (His third, I think, was fine). All he had were his pre-existing infestors, but they were out of energy.
It wasn't that the drop did a lot of damage, it was that Jaedong didn't recover properly.
Also, he was making corruptors during the attack, which was a total waste of gas, and he had no spines to fall back to.
Is today a telecommunication day in Korea? =) 'Cos both telecoms team won, being underdogs (I never thought I would say underdogs in reference to SKT just a half year before)
On August 12 2012 17:38 IshinShishi wrote: JD literally lost to dts, he lost around 50 drones to that.
That might explain why JD lost to that push. He was remaking drones. I didn't know he lost that many, and assumed he would still be making army, so when Sun rolled up to the middle I thought JD had him, but JD's army was so much smaller than It should have been.
On August 12 2012 17:38 IshinShishi wrote: JD literally lost to dts, he lost around 50 drones to that.
That might explain why JD lost to that push. He was remaking drones. I didn't know he lost that many, and assumed he would still be making army, so when Sun rolled up to the middle I thought JD had him, but JD's army was so much smaller than It should have been.
He was at 40 drones or so when the final push happened and that was just after making a small round of them. Personally I think he just remade them too late because he was scared of Sun continuing to push earlier on (which is reasonable, hard call to make but I think Z should normally go for the greedy option). He had almost 20 larva he simply didn't have the income to use come the end of the game.
On August 12 2012 17:35 Nikon wrote: Also, another 3-3 results in a win -.-;;
Excuse me, but how is that a problem?
Clearly he thinks we should have extended series.
How is it not a problem? T8 won 3 games, SKT T1 won 3 games, SKT T1 wins the match?
Learn the format before making comments like this plz. Add: When the playoffs will begin and Bo3 match series results will be like that: STX 4:0 Stars, STX 3:4 Stars, STX 2:4 Stars -> Stars advances will you too comment something about how STX won 9:8 in games?
On August 12 2012 17:35 Nikon wrote: Also, another 3-3 results in a win -.-;;
Excuse me, but how is that a problem?
Clearly he thinks we should have extended series.
How is it not a problem? T8 won 3 games, SKT T1 won 3 games, SKT T1 wins the match?
The same way it's not a problem that T8 won 3 games and ACE won 3 games, but T8 won their match.
The format scores by set (bw / sc2 / ace) and it's the same for everyone.
You could compare it to Tennis if that makes it easier for you. You win by sets, not games. Player A vs Player B A Wins first set 6-0 B wins second set 7-6(tiebreak) B wins second set 7-6(tiebreak)
Player A have won 18 games while Player B has won 14 games, yet he wins the match with set score of 2-1.
BW set = 1 point SC2 set = 1 point Ace set = 1 point SKT1 won 2 sets. Team8 won 1 set. Final score 2-1.
On August 13 2012 00:11 larse wrote: Well, if Jaedong has build some spines and spores.
You know most zergs just build tons of spinres
But not that early.
Yeah, but most zergs would have one spine and one spore at each base by then. Jaedong is aggressive but it's not worthy if the price of aggressiveness is losing.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/eP72o.png)
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