OSL LR thread will also be up shortly, unless someone else wants to do it.
umm, now that our Team tags do appear in the SC2 forums, I'm wondering if all proleague matches LR threads go there, I'm not going to put up a poll on that so let me know what you think either by PM or on the thread(of course not during the games, I don't want the thread to get sidetracked)
On May 29 2012 12:42 BLinD-RawR wrote: OSL LR thread will also be up shortly, unless someone else wants to do it.
umm, now that our Team tags do appear in the SC2 forums, I'm wondering if all proleague matches LR threads go there, I'm not going to put up a poll on that so let me know what you think either by PM or on the thread(of course not during the games, I don't want the thread to get sidetracked)
proleague has always been a broodwar thing and In my opinion this is where it started and should end the same way in the broodwar forum.
edit : Sc2 or not if it's proleague it should stick with us because we are fans of the team first .
On May 29 2012 13:46 opterown wrote: i'm happy for all the SPL LR to go to the SC2 forum. Would make it a bit easier to find + concentrate the hype
agreed, better to just have one consolidated thread with everyone posting
I agree. I think if you are a fan of SC2 you shouldn't feel afraid to post in the SC2 forum, nobody there has ill will and it's just a click away. For now it's fun to have separate threads, because of the different styles of LR, but as it is I'm just checking both threads anyway so I can see both sides of the analysis and excitement.
On May 29 2012 13:46 opterown wrote: i'm happy for all the SPL LR to go to the SC2 forum. Would make it a bit easier to find + concentrate the hype
agreed, better to just have one consolidated thread with everyone posting
I agree. I think if you are a fan of SC2 you shouldn't feel afraid to post in the SC2 forum, nobody there has ill will and it's just a click away. For now it's fun to have separate threads, because of the different styles of LR, but as it is I'm just checking both threads anyway so I can see both sides of the analysis and excitement.
In theory this is a great idea. But let's be honest. Too many trolls and hardcore BW fanboys for it to work.
Fantasy looked so sick that game but ZerO at least looked alright. He did his best to delay the push with lings mutas and lurkers. Fantasy is just way way too good to be denied.
On May 29 2012 15:25 Bosskonasegway wrote: Fantasy looked so sick that game but ZerO at least looked alright. He did his best to delay the push with lings mutas and lurkers. Fantasy is just way way too good to be denied.
What?? Zero looked very sub-par compared to his usual play..
4 rax + fac push. Zero didn't do a thing to kill the mm ball. He didn't harass the main, when he had to. But props to Fanta, his mm control was good. The distance to zerg was short, Zero had to pull JD here to win
Korean observers tantalize us by not clicking a warping in building so we can't see what it is. Which would be more dramatic if they didn't have the production tab open.
ok, there are some units that look like Best's sentry and a big dragoon, Flying has some stalkers. Both expanding. Obs sniped by Best or Flying, damn, the color looks the same
On May 29 2012 16:16 letian wrote: are there shield batteries in SC2?
No but shield regen itself out of combat.
After 10 seconds of taking no damage they regen at a speed of 2 points per second. So they tend to regen fully between battles except for things like archons.
On May 29 2012 16:19 Ribbon wrote: God, mass colossus on colossus is so fucking boring.
And I thought that awesome graphics should drive more enthusiasm
that shinyness hides what you can see, those lazers could have been more transparent so that I could see the zealot wars going on in between those retarded tripods.
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
In term of level of play certainly. I watched Stephano's game this week end, and er, it did look a lot like that. Oh sure, with a bit of counterattacks, longer battles, but in the end...
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
If they have to play BW, that's pretty much certain. But if they have to play only SC2, then they are more than adequate for A-team.
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
do you honestly believe the kespa players are the best at sc2 right now? i can't fathom this stupidity
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
Moon was a god of WC3. Does that mean he's comparable to Flash in BW? This argument is stupid.
Sacscri scouts all of sHy's gates because shy doesn't block the the overlord for some reason.
Shy's got like 5 pylons in Sacsri's main base somehow. DTs
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
Probbably even the most of bw elitists can understand that at this moment both Crank and Freaky would be SC2 top5 or even top3 if they played in KeSPA teams.
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
do you honestly believe the kespa players are the best at sc2 right now? i can't fathom this stupidity
Years of rigorous training have risen their general skill level extremely high. It's only natural that they do well in a game that's as similar to BW as SC2 is.
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
Moon was a god of WC3. Does that mean he's comparable to Flash in BW? This argument is stupid.
Yeah, except the fact that WC3 is pretty different from BW, unlike SC2.
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
do you honestly believe the kespa players are the best at sc2 right now? i can't fathom this stupidity
Years of rigorous training have risen their general skill level extremely high. It's only natural that they do well in a game that's as similar to BW as SC2 is.
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
Moon was a god of WC3. Does that mean he's comparable to Flash in BW? This argument is stupid.
Yeah, except the fact that WC3 is pretty different from BW, unlike SC2.
... That must be why there are only about 2-3 BW pros in Grandmaster. If you honestly think these BW pros are on the level of GSL Code S players you are truly showing your ignorance of SC2.
I'm not saying they won't improve very quickly, but many of them are still pretty bad.
On May 29 2012 16:30 AsianEcksDragon wrote: Guide to Micro in SC2: 1)Select desired group of units to be used in battle 2) Ctrl + 1 3) 1a
Guide to Macro: 1) Select all production building. 2) Ctrl + (any number key 2-0) 3) Use Shift + (Same number key) to add more into the group
Congratulations! You are now a SC2 progamer!
You know that's pretty much one of the easiest way to lose in SC2 with the "one control group syndrome"
Actually, Bisu lost his first SC2 game because he put everything in one control group so he mismicroed his units and lost.
I've yet to see an SC2 game not decided by one key battle between two big balls of units. In fact, it seems that whenever a player decides to get cute and utilize harassment or drop, they would get steamrolled by the other player's ball.
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
do you honestly believe the kespa players are the best at sc2 right now? i can't fathom this stupidity
Years of rigorous training have risen their general skill level extremely high. It's only natural that they do well in a game that's as similar to BW as SC2 is.
On May 29 2012 16:39 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:36 Nikon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:31 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:30 Nikon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:27 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
Moon was a god of WC3. Does that mean he's comparable to Flash in BW? This argument is stupid.
Yeah, except the fact that WC3 is pretty different from BW, unlike SC2.
... That must be why there are only about 2-3 BW pros in Grandmaster. If you honestly think these BW pros are on the level of GSL Code S players you are truly showing your ignorance of SC2.
I'm not saying they won't improve very quickly, but many of them are still pretty bad.
Why the fuck do you keep saying that the BW players are bad in the god damned BW section, holy shit. Seriously, I feel like I'm reading the SC2 part of the site already, and then random people start throwing "bw elitists" around.
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
do you honestly believe the kespa players are the best at sc2 right now? i can't fathom this stupidity
Years of rigorous training have risen their general skill level extremely high. It's only natural that they do well in a game that's as similar to BW as SC2 is.
On May 29 2012 16:39 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:36 Nikon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:31 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:30 Nikon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:27 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
Moon was a god of WC3. Does that mean he's comparable to Flash in BW? This argument is stupid.
Yeah, except the fact that WC3 is pretty different from BW, unlike SC2.
... That must be why there are only about 2-3 BW pros in Grandmaster. If you honestly think these BW pros are on the level of GSL Code S players you are truly showing your ignorance of SC2.
I'm not saying they won't improve very quickly, but many of them are still pretty bad.
Why the fuck do you keep saying that the BW players are bad in the god damned BW section, holy shit.
because they are bad at sc2 right now? Why do you feel the need to lie to yourself that these guys are amazing at this game when anyone with some experience can tell you they absolutely are not? Nobody is questioning their bw skill, but I don't feel the need to make shit up about how my favourite players are so good at this game right now when actually they are pretty bad
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
do you honestly believe the kespa players are the best at sc2 right now? i can't fathom this stupidity
Years of rigorous training have risen their general skill level extremely high. It's only natural that they do well in a game that's as similar to BW as SC2 is.
On May 29 2012 16:39 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:36 Nikon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:31 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:30 Nikon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:27 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
Moon was a god of WC3. Does that mean he's comparable to Flash in BW? This argument is stupid.
Yeah, except the fact that WC3 is pretty different from BW, unlike SC2.
... That must be why there are only about 2-3 BW pros in Grandmaster. If you honestly think these BW pros are on the level of GSL Code S players you are truly showing your ignorance of SC2.
I'm not saying they won't improve very quickly, but many of them are still pretty bad.
Why the fuck do you keep saying that the BW players are bad in the god damned BW section, holy shit.
Because we're talking about them being bad at SC2. Which they are. That last game was terrible, as was the game before it. I'm sure they'll get good etc etc etc., but right now the only reason to watch KeSPA players play SC2 is to mock them.
On May 29 2012 16:30 AsianEcksDragon wrote: Guide to Micro in SC2: 1)Select desired group of units to be used in battle 2) Ctrl + 1 3) 1a
Guide to Macro: 1) Select all production building. 2) Ctrl + (any number key 2-0) 3) Use Shift + (Same number key) to add more into the group
Congratulations! You are now a SC2 progamer!
You know that's pretty much one of the easiest way to lose in SC2 with the "one control group syndrome"
Actually, Bisu lost his first SC2 game because he put everything in one control group so he mismicroed his units and lost.
I've yet to see an SC2 game not decided by one key battle between two big balls of units. In fact, it seems that whenever a player decides to get cute and utilize harassment or drop, they would get steamrolled by the other player's ball.
There are many examples. ST_Ace vs BboongBboong.Prime from GSL Up and Down is one of the most recent examples I can think of. Oh and most MarineKing.Prime vs ST_Parting games also feature constant aggression too.
Modern TvZ also relies on T harassing Z so they cannot get away with 3 bases+ and crazy droning. Many players make their name from aggressive drop play that stretch Z's multitasking to the limit, such as Slayers_MMA and FXO_Gumiho.
Also, fighting between two ball of units does not mean you can put all units in one control group. Different units have different micro that they are needed so it's better to put units into smaller groups.
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
do you honestly believe the kespa players are the best at sc2 right now? i can't fathom this stupidity
Years of rigorous training have risen their general skill level extremely high. It's only natural that they do well in a game that's as similar to BW as SC2 is.
On May 29 2012 16:39 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:36 Nikon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:31 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:30 Nikon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:27 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
Moon was a god of WC3. Does that mean he's comparable to Flash in BW? This argument is stupid.
Yeah, except the fact that WC3 is pretty different from BW, unlike SC2.
... That must be why there are only about 2-3 BW pros in Grandmaster. If you honestly think these BW pros are on the level of GSL Code S players you are truly showing your ignorance of SC2.
I'm not saying they won't improve very quickly, but many of them are still pretty bad.
Why the fuck do you keep saying that the BW players are bad in the god damned BW section, holy shit.
Some of them are just bad at SC2 at the moment... That's not inflammatory to anyone watching these games without bias... I'm not trolling or anything. If I honestly can't mention that there is a lot for these guys to improve upon then I guess I'm sorry... These guys area obviously way better at BW than the SC2 pros. No one is arguing that. ATM they are playing a SC2 BO3 though so we're commenting on that...
EffOrt is already pretty good at SC2... I can't wait until the rest can catch up!
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
do you honestly believe the kespa players are the best at sc2 right now? i can't fathom this stupidity
Years of rigorous training have risen their general skill level extremely high. It's only natural that they do well in a game that's as similar to BW as SC2 is.
On May 29 2012 16:39 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:36 Nikon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:31 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:30 Nikon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:27 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
Moon was a god of WC3. Does that mean he's comparable to Flash in BW? This argument is stupid.
Yeah, except the fact that WC3 is pretty different from BW, unlike SC2.
... That must be why there are only about 2-3 BW pros in Grandmaster. If you honestly think these BW pros are on the level of GSL Code S players you are truly showing your ignorance of SC2.
I'm not saying they won't improve very quickly, but many of them are still pretty bad.
Why the fuck do you keep saying that the BW players are bad in the god damned BW section, holy shit.
Because we're talking about them being bad at SC2. Which they are. That last game was terrible, as was the game before it. I'm sure they'll get good etc etc etc., but right now the only reason to watch KeSPA players play SC2 is to mock them.
Well, maybe you only watch the SC2 part to mock them, but for me the only reason I watch SC2 at all is because of the KeSPA players. In a sense, I'm discovering the game together with them. I can very well do without the "these guys are bad" part. I mean, you don't see me going around and posting "this game is bad" in the SC2 forum, do you?
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
do you honestly believe the kespa players are the best at sc2 right now? i can't fathom this stupidity
Years of rigorous training have risen their general skill level extremely high. It's only natural that they do well in a game that's as similar to BW as SC2 is.
On May 29 2012 16:39 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:36 Nikon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:31 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:30 Nikon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:27 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:24 Lightwip wrote: One battle and the winner is decided. Fun game.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
Moon was a god of WC3. Does that mean he's comparable to Flash in BW? This argument is stupid.
Yeah, except the fact that WC3 is pretty different from BW, unlike SC2.
... That must be why there are only about 2-3 BW pros in Grandmaster. If you honestly think these BW pros are on the level of GSL Code S players you are truly showing your ignorance of SC2.
I'm not saying they won't improve very quickly, but many of them are still pretty bad.
Why the fuck do you keep saying that the BW players are bad in the god damned BW section, holy shit.
Because we're talking about them being bad at SC2. Which they are. That last game was terrible, as was the game before it. I'm sure they'll get good etc etc etc., but right now the only reason to watch KeSPA players play SC2 is to mock them.
Well, watching they play SC2 to mock them is not a good hobby to have in my opinion
I enjoy seeing them grow as SC2 players. There are many things that are fun to watch, as long as you don't expect the game to be top notch, GSL code S level.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
do you honestly believe the kespa players are the best at sc2 right now? i can't fathom this stupidity
Years of rigorous training have risen their general skill level extremely high. It's only natural that they do well in a game that's as similar to BW as SC2 is.
On May 29 2012 16:39 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:36 Nikon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:31 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:30 Nikon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:27 Ribbon wrote: [quote]
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
Moon was a god of WC3. Does that mean he's comparable to Flash in BW? This argument is stupid.
Yeah, except the fact that WC3 is pretty different from BW, unlike SC2.
... That must be why there are only about 2-3 BW pros in Grandmaster. If you honestly think these BW pros are on the level of GSL Code S players you are truly showing your ignorance of SC2.
I'm not saying they won't improve very quickly, but many of them are still pretty bad.
Why the fuck do you keep saying that the BW players are bad in the god damned BW section, holy shit.
Because we're talking about them being bad at SC2. Which they are. That last game was terrible, as was the game before it. I'm sure they'll get good etc etc etc., but right now the only reason to watch KeSPA players play SC2 is to mock them.
Well, maybe you only watch the SC2 part to mock them, but for me the only reason I watch SC2 at all is because of the KeSPA players. In a sense, I'm discovering the game together with them. I can very well do without the "these guys are bad" part. I mean, you don't see me going around and posting "this game is bad" in the SC2 forum, do you?
I totally agree with you. They are not GSL level right now, but it's fun to learn the game with them. Sorry if someone making you mad, but please don't judge SC2 fan base on that.
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
do you honestly believe the kespa players are the best at sc2 right now? i can't fathom this stupidity
Years of rigorous training have risen their general skill level extremely high. It's only natural that they do well in a game that's as similar to BW as SC2 is.
On May 29 2012 16:39 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:36 Nikon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:31 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:30 Nikon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:27 Ribbon wrote: [quote]
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
Moon was a god of WC3. Does that mean he's comparable to Flash in BW? This argument is stupid.
Yeah, except the fact that WC3 is pretty different from BW, unlike SC2.
... That must be why there are only about 2-3 BW pros in Grandmaster. If you honestly think these BW pros are on the level of GSL Code S players you are truly showing your ignorance of SC2.
I'm not saying they won't improve very quickly, but many of them are still pretty bad.
Why the fuck do you keep saying that the BW players are bad in the god damned BW section, holy shit.
Because we're talking about them being bad at SC2. Which they are. That last game was terrible, as was the game before it. I'm sure they'll get good etc etc etc., but right now the only reason to watch KeSPA players play SC2 is to mock them.
Well, maybe you only watch the SC2 part to mock them, but for me the only reason I watch SC2 at all is because of the KeSPA players. In a sense, I'm discovering the game together with them. I can very well do without the "these guys are bad" part. I mean, you don't see me going around and posting "this game is bad" in the SC2 forum, do you?
You were the person who asked if he was implying player X was better than player Y after he cited an example of how different a GSTL game last night was in terms of structure and action to the PL game we just watched lol =p
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
do you honestly believe the kespa players are the best at sc2 right now? i can't fathom this stupidity
Years of rigorous training have risen their general skill level extremely high. It's only natural that they do well in a game that's as similar to BW as SC2 is.
On May 29 2012 16:39 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:36 Nikon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:31 Ribbon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:30 Nikon wrote:
On May 29 2012 16:27 Ribbon wrote: [quote]
Let's not start an SC2 vs BW thread, because this is some tragic SC2. The difference between that game and, say, Crank vs Freaky in last night's GSTL, is pretty stark.
Are you implying that Crank and Freaky are better than BeSt and Flying?
At SC2? By leaps and bounds.
Eh, if you think so. For all I know and I've seen from SC2 beforehand, Crank and Freaky are maybe good enough to be b-teamers in any random KeSPA team.
Moon was a god of WC3. Does that mean he's comparable to Flash in BW? This argument is stupid.
Yeah, except the fact that WC3 is pretty different from BW, unlike SC2.
... That must be why there are only about 2-3 BW pros in Grandmaster. If you honestly think these BW pros are on the level of GSL Code S players you are truly showing your ignorance of SC2.
I'm not saying they won't improve very quickly, but many of them are still pretty bad.
Why the fuck do you keep saying that the BW players are bad in the god damned BW section, holy shit.
Because we're talking about them being bad at SC2. Which they are. That last game was terrible, as was the game before it. I'm sure they'll get good etc etc etc., but right now the only reason to watch KeSPA players play SC2 is to mock them.
Well, watching they play SC2 to mock them is not a good hobby to have in my opinion
I enjoy seeing them grow as SC2 players. There are many things that are fun to watch, as long as you don't expect the game to be top notch, GSL code S level.
This is it for me too.
Most of the fun from watching the SC2 side of games is to see how the players grow week in and week out as they learn the finer points of the game. It's nice to see how incredibly talented players refine and improve as they go; take JD's first ZvP loss vs Rain and compare it with his clutch ace match win vs Lizzy, the improvement is cool to see.
I'm looking forward to probably seeing Soulkey play now and seeing how he's improved his ZvP since the last time we saw him play SC2 as well =)
What did that guy yell at the beginning of the third set? There was hwaiting cheer for both players, then one guy yells something. I didn't catch what he said.
Soulkey does an extractor trick just to get a drone out a little faster. That's actually bad; it's mathematically worse than 9 overlord unless you're doing something like a 10pool
On May 29 2012 16:30 AsianEcksDragon wrote: Guide to Micro in SC2: 1)Select desired group of units to be used in battle 2) Ctrl + 1 3) 1a
Guide to Macro: 1) Select all production building. 2) Ctrl + (any number key 2-0) 3) Use Shift + (Same number key) to add more into the group
Congratulations! You are now a SC2 progamer!
You know that's pretty much one of the easiest way to lose in SC2 with the "one control group syndrome"
Actually, Bisu lost his first SC2 game because he put everything in one control group so he mismicroed his units and lost.
I've yet to see an SC2 game not decided by one key battle between two big balls of units. In fact, it seems that whenever a player decides to get cute and utilize harassment or drop, they would get steamrolled by the other player's ball.
There are many examples. ST_Ace vs BboongBboong.Prime from GSL Up and Down is one of the most recent examples I can think of. Oh and most MarineKing.Prime vs ST_Parting games also feature constant aggression too.
Modern TvZ also relies on T harassing Z so they cannot get away with 3 bases+ and crazy droning. Many players make their name from aggressive drop play that stretch Z's multitasking to the limit, such as Slayers_MMA and FXO_Gumiho.
Also, fighting between two ball of units does not mean you can put all units in one control group. Different units have different micro that they are needed so it's better to put units into smaller groups.
Right. You remind me that there's such a thing as smart cast in this game. You can simply assign a separate control group for each different unit type and use their abilities without having to single a unit out. So in SC2 everyone can look like Jangbi without the 15 hours of practice!
Multiple control groups may be allowed but the game simply does not reward high multitask. So far, every player who utilized drops or split his army into two or more groups have lost their games. I was so sure Jaedong was the better player in his ZvZ but his great play was wasted because he couldn't defend his opponent's giant ball desperation push despite the economic damage he dealt.
Simply put, multitask is allowed in this game and I'm sure many have won with it. It's just not as rewarding as in BW.
On May 29 2012 16:30 AsianEcksDragon wrote: Guide to Micro in SC2: 1)Select desired group of units to be used in battle 2) Ctrl + 1 3) 1a
Guide to Macro: 1) Select all production building. 2) Ctrl + (any number key 2-0) 3) Use Shift + (Same number key) to add more into the group
Congratulations! You are now a SC2 progamer!
You know that's pretty much one of the easiest way to lose in SC2 with the "one control group syndrome"
Actually, Bisu lost his first SC2 game because he put everything in one control group so he mismicroed his units and lost.
I've yet to see an SC2 game not decided by one key battle between two big balls of units. In fact, it seems that whenever a player decides to get cute and utilize harassment or drop, they would get steamrolled by the other player's ball.
There are many examples. ST_Ace vs BboongBboong.Prime from GSL Up and Down is one of the most recent examples I can think of. Oh and most MarineKing.Prime vs ST_Parting games also feature constant aggression too.
Modern TvZ also relies on T harassing Z so they cannot get away with 3 bases+ and crazy droning. Many players make their name from aggressive drop play that stretch Z's multitasking to the limit, such as Slayers_MMA and FXO_Gumiho.
Also, fighting between two ball of units does not mean you can put all units in one control group. Different units have different micro that they are needed so it's better to put units into smaller groups.
Right. You remind me that there's such a thing as smart cast in this game. You can simply assign a separate control group for each different unit type and use their abilities without having to single a unit out. So in SC2 everyone can look like Jangbi without the 15 hours of practice!
Multiple control groups may be allowed but the game simply does not reward high multitask. So far, every player who utilized drops or split his army into two or more groups have lost their games. I was so sure Jaedong was the better player in his ZvZ but his great play was wasted because he couldn't defend his opponent's giant ball desperation push despite the economic damage he dealt.
Simply put, multitask is allowed in this game and I'm sure many have won with it. It's just not as rewarding as in BW.
That is why we are saying they are bad. Good SC2 players drop, and drop often. KeSPA players are not good SC2 players.
On May 29 2012 17:20 LennoxPM wrote: when roaches move while burrowed you can see some action on the ground, it is really hard to see it
I would say it's about as hard to see as a moving cloaked unit, maybe a little harder if it's over creep or a dark terrain texture but because it's often a large group of roaches moving it can be a little easier too. Burrowed infestors are a little harder to spot and can sneak in to cause havoc in mineral lines.
On May 29 2012 17:20 LennoxPM wrote: when roaches move while burrowed you can see some action on the ground, it is really hard to see it
I would say it's about as hard to see as a moving cloaked unit, maybe a little harder if it's over creep or a dark terrain texture but because it's often a large group of roaches moving it can be a little easier too. Burrowed infestors are a little harder to spot and can sneak in to cause havoc in mineral lines.
The reason Soulkey's lings just chilled in the mineral line was because he was holding position, so the lings would attack probes and not run after nearby enemy units. Didn't quite work because Sun pulled probes, but that was the plan
On May 29 2012 17:06 Ribbon wrote: Yeah, the speed at which they've improved is actually staggering.
Then perhaps you should start criticizing after 3 months or so....
You sound like an SC2 fanboy, with your 'give it time' BS ;P
And you sound like you are the most indecisive person in the world.
Either A) Kespa players are tactical geniuses in BW, and can utilize their skills in multitasking, map control, macro, micro in SC2 given enough time, or B) Kespa players are complete and udder crap at SC2.
Do you like Kespa players or not? If A) is true, then why would you bother saying B)?
it is quite easy to see dt's or banshees. Roaches if they are in massive group then its quite fine, but if its only 5-8 you may think it is just ground textures
On May 29 2012 17:06 Ribbon wrote: Yeah, the speed at which they've improved is actually staggering.
Then perhaps you should start criticizing after 3 months or so....
You sound like an SC2 fanboy, with your 'give it time' BS ;P
And you sound like you are the most indecisive person in the world.
Either A) Kespa players are tactical geniuses in BW, and can utilize their skills in multitasking, map control, macro, micro in SC2 given enough time, or B) Kespa players are complete and udder crap at SC2.
Do you like Kespa players or not? If A) is true, then why would you bother saying B)?
They WILL be good, and now a lot of them AREN'T. It was in the context of some guy saying SC2 must be bad based on these games, but these games aren't very good (this particular one right now is decent, though. Not great, but decent)
Sun needs a win for his confidence. According to Coach Park he's improving (in SC2) faster than anybody in SKT, so I hope he's able to show it now when it matters.
On May 29 2012 17:42 PineappleLumpsToss wrote: Question for those who watch a lot of SC2: in PvZ, does the advantage swing in favour of Zerg when they have a critical mass of Brood thingies?
Maybe SK just had a really good army composition, but it looked like Sun tried everything - storms, Void Rays - without even making a dent.
From what I've seen. It does, until Protoss can get out a good number of archons and a mothership out.
On May 29 2012 17:42 PineappleLumpsToss wrote: Question for those who watch a lot of SC2: in PvZ, does the advantage swing in favour of Zerg when they have a critical mass of Brood thingies?
Maybe SK just had a really good army composition, but it looked like Sun tried everything - storms, Void Rays - without even making a dent.
Yes. Protosses answer to the broodlord infestor end game comp is an archon toilet. Mass void rays dies to fungal from infestor. Once zerg gets the brood infestor comp, they have the advantage.
Question for those who watch a lot of SC2: in PvZ, does the advantage swing in favour of Zerg when they have a critical mass of Brood thingies?
Yes, broodlords can absolutely devastate the protoss army. However Protoss have a good chance to destroy the expensive, slow building BL army with a well placed vortex from a mothership, which causes them to stack up into a small space, and then archons or storm can annihilate them. If the Zerg miscontrols the BL army they can also be picked off piecemeal by blink stalkers.
On May 29 2012 17:42 PineappleLumpsToss wrote: Question for those who watch a lot of SC2: in PvZ, does the advantage swing in favour of Zerg when they have a critical mass of Brood thingies?
Maybe SK just had a really good army composition, but it looked like Sun tried everything - storms, Void Rays - without even making a dent.
They really should bring back maelstorm for protoss because mamaship + vortex and archon toilet won't work against well split Brood lord army . Maelstorm ? heh there is no way that Brood lord army of ball is going to get away from a maelstorm cast . I would be licking my chops when I see an army of zerg sc2 unit die to maelstorm + psi storm .
On May 29 2012 17:42 PineappleLumpsToss wrote: Question for those who watch a lot of SC2: in PvZ, does the advantage swing in favour of Zerg when they have a critical mass of Brood thingies?
Depends on the skill level of the protoss. Motherships and archon toilets are the "counter", but recently GSL protosses are realizing that Blords are really slow, so constant speed prism drops and even defensive recalls can abuse that immobility. Ace did this against BboongBboong in the GSL, and it looked both absurdly strong and a lot more entertaining that the old standard. I think (and hope!) it'll be the new standard.
On May 29 2012 17:42 PineappleLumpsToss wrote: Question for those who watch a lot of SC2: in PvZ, does the advantage swing in favour of Zerg when they have a critical mass of Brood thingies?
Maybe SK just had a really good army composition, but it looked like Sun tried everything - storms, Void Rays - without even making a dent.
Think of Broodlord as a massive flying Siege Tank that shoot out 2 Zerglings every time it attacks. If P let Z get like 10+ Broodlords with enough army support, he is kinda going to get rolled over because Broodling will block P army from getting under Broodlords and kill them.
Although they are really powerful, they are also very slow so there are a couple of ways to deal it. One is to pull them into Vortex and put a lot of Archon into it, which is called "Archon Toilet". When Broodlords come out, it will be stack into very clumped group, so with enough Archons they can pretty much 1-2 shots them.
Another way is to harassing Z player and make him constantly move Broodlord until they cannot catchup with the harass. This style is kinda new so it's still need a lot of refinements.
Thanks for the answers. After the noble magnificence of the Carrier in BW it's going to take a bit of getting used to to see Zerg so dominant in the air.
On May 29 2012 17:48 PineappleLumpsToss wrote: Thanks for the answers. After the noble magnificence of the Carrier in BW it's going to take a bit of getting used to to see Zerg so dominant in the air.
There was a GSTL game where a Protoss got 15 carriers against literally 40 infestors. It was glorious.
On May 29 2012 17:48 PineappleLumpsToss wrote: Thanks for the answers. After the noble magnificence of the Carrier in BW it's going to take a bit of getting used to to see Zerg so dominant in the air.
They needa bring back sc1 carriers, and i will switch back to protoss.
On May 29 2012 17:52 Bear4188 wrote: Unfortunately Blizzard seems to have some sort of vendetta against carriers and refuses to even attempt to make them more viable.
because the best fix to the carrier is to dumb its AI down.
On May 29 2012 17:42 PineappleLumpsToss wrote: Question for those who watch a lot of SC2: in PvZ, does the advantage swing in favour of Zerg when they have a critical mass of Brood thingies?
Maybe SK just had a really good army composition, but it looked like Sun tried everything - storms, Void Rays - without even making a dent.
They really should bring back maelstorm for protoss because mamaship + vortex and archon toilet won't work against well split Brood lord army . Maelstorm ? heh there is no way that Brood lord army of ball is going to get away from a maelstorm cast . I would be licking my chops when I see an army of zerg sc2 unit die to maelstorm + psi storm .
Maelstrom + storm already exists in sc2. They made it green and gave it to zerg.
On May 29 2012 17:42 PineappleLumpsToss wrote: Question for those who watch a lot of SC2: in PvZ, does the advantage swing in favour of Zerg when they have a critical mass of Brood thingies?
Maybe SK just had a really good army composition, but it looked like Sun tried everything - storms, Void Rays - without even making a dent.
Yes, Soulkey even said in tghe interview he thinks it is almost impossible to lose with broodlord infestor. If the Zerg keeps his infestors and broodlords well spread and slowly slowly pushes with spinecrawlers it is very hard to lose. The Protoss can still win with a double mothership vortex and a sick archon toilet, but it is the Zergs game to lose at that point.
Liquid Ret hates lategame PvZ due to how patient the zerg has to be and how it comes down to one ability, vortex.
Recent metagame is also adding in multiple speed warp prisms for maximum harass to stop reinforcement capabilities by destroying econ and tech as the protoss can reinforce faster. Just without the mothership.
Sun lost because he was massing immortals for a heavy timing attack and soulkey constantly drew him out of position with counter attacks that Sun didn't defend well at all. Sun's economy was really bad and his composition was not quite right to deal with brood lord/infestor. While that is a hard army for protoss to beat when the brood lord count gets very high, it is definitely doable, especially with good use of vortex and mass stalker reinforcements. If Sun had better production he could have pulled out a win, as soulkey's eco was pretty low too, but he just had all the wrong units and no money. His harass was also really poor aside from the small stalker attack taking out a base, so he never really properly disrupted his opponent's army production.
It's funny coming into an LR and not seeing people LRing because they dont understand SC2 well enough yet (and neither do the players so the strategic analysis back fires half the time because you expect them to behave a certain way and they usually dont).
So I'm gone for 2 weeks and an SKT LR thread has a big total of 16 pages. The disheartening thing is that half the LR is people doing actual LR on the BW games and the second half is mostly people arguing - most of what I saw is that SC2 is not as boring as it seems here.
I really don't have much to say about the games either. Bisu and Fantasy win in BW as they should and then Stars somehow takes the win. Pffffffffft.
Well... I guess that's that. I hope Fantasy manages to snatch the top ELO spot, if not from this game then from the next one.
Such is the problem of a forgettable league. Few of us care about SC2. I don't even care enough to watch my favorite players there on a regular basis. Every time I give SC2 a chance I get disappointed again. Maybe I should stop.
On May 30 2012 01:39 Lightwip wrote: Such is the problem of a forgettable league. Few of us care about SC2. I don't even care enough to watch my favorite players there on a regular basis. Every time I give SC2 a chance I get disappointed again. Maybe I should stop.
If you judge SC2 game play by Proleague's standard, then I would say you are doing it wrong
On May 30 2012 01:39 Lightwip wrote: Such is the problem of a forgettable league. Few of us care about SC2. I don't even care enough to watch my favorite players there on a regular basis. Every time I give SC2 a chance I get disappointed again. Maybe I should stop.
If you judge SC2 game play by Proleague's standard, then I would say you are doing it wrong
I've watched plenty of non-PL SC2 games over different time periods. Each has led to only disappointment. I think there's a pattern here.
On May 30 2012 01:39 Lightwip wrote: Such is the problem of a forgettable league. Few of us care about SC2. I don't even care enough to watch my favorite players there on a regular basis. Every time I give SC2 a chance I get disappointed again. Maybe I should stop.
If you judge SC2 game play by Proleague's standard, then I would say you are doing it wrong
I've watched plenty of non-PL SC2 games over different time periods. Each has led to only disappointment. I think there's a pattern here.
maybe you should pursue other interests, since this is clearly not working out for you
On May 30 2012 01:39 Lightwip wrote: Such is the problem of a forgettable league. Few of us care about SC2. I don't even care enough to watch my favorite players there on a regular basis. Every time I give SC2 a chance I get disappointed again. Maybe I should stop.
If you judge SC2 game play by Proleague's standard, then I would say you are doing it wrong
I've watched plenty of non-PL SC2 games over different time periods. Each has led to only disappointment. I think there's a pattern here.
I understand. I'm a bit biased towards SC2 and you guys towards BW. Didn't follow any E-sports until Dreamhack Summer last year where there was SC2. Since then I'm in love with SC2. Tried to watch BW but I found it hard to follow, especially with the Korean casters. Now I can watch it for the really good plays from the very top players, but I don't know much about the game, especially not game theory. For the same reason I watch BW I'm excited to see that talent transfer to SC2 because of their capacity to make insane plays and change the meta-game.
SC2 is still very undevelopped, balance is maybe not exactly balanced, (but that's pretty hard to tell because meta-game is far from utopic right now) and I would expect BW pros to make SC2 the best e-sports out there.
On May 30 2012 01:39 Lightwip wrote: Such is the problem of a forgettable league. Few of us care about SC2. I don't even care enough to watch my favorite players there on a regular basis. Every time I give SC2 a chance I get disappointed again. Maybe I should stop.
If you judge SC2 game play by Proleague's standard, then I would say you are doing it wrong
I've watched plenty of non-PL SC2 games over different time periods. Each has led to only disappointment. I think there's a pattern here.
maybe you should pursue other interests, since this is clearly not working out for you
Who says I'm not? Being elsewhere and being here are not mutually exclusive.
On May 30 2012 01:39 Lightwip wrote: Such is the problem of a forgettable league. Few of us care about SC2. I don't even care enough to watch my favorite players there on a regular basis. Every time I give SC2 a chance I get disappointed again. Maybe I should stop.
If you judge SC2 game play by Proleague's standard, then I would say you are doing it wrong
I've watched plenty of non-PL SC2 games over different time periods. Each has led to only disappointment. I think there's a pattern here.
I understand. I'm a bit biased towards SC2 and you guys towards BW. Didn't follow any E-sports until Dreamhack Summer last year where there was SC2. Since then I'm in love with SC2. Tried to watch BW but I found it hard to follow, especially with the Korean casters. Now I can watch it for the really good plays from the very top players, but I don't know much about the game, especially not game theory.
If your problem is this, try watching the foreign leagues. It is of comparable entertainment values and in English.
@MetalPanda I'm glad to see a well articulated post. I get your point, I mean, I've played enough SC2 in the past to know the units and what they do, yet when I watched a semifinals TvZ on some GSL--I don't even remember the players--I just found it incredibly dull, and all the shiny stuff on the screen made my eyes hurt. I think as far as the foreign community goes, it's pretty clear that this proleague experiment is a huge failure.
On May 30 2012 02:52 Operations wrote: Fantasy shut down all the bio critics. He demonstrated really amazing performance and m&m split. next game he'll make no tanks at all :D
Funny thing is that he said practicing SC2 help him improve his Bio control I guess if you have to go Bio for like at least 2 match up would help him that.
On May 30 2012 01:39 Lightwip wrote: Such is the problem of a forgettable league. Few of us care about SC2. I don't even care enough to watch my favorite players there on a regular basis. Every time I give SC2 a chance I get disappointed again. Maybe I should stop.
If you judge SC2 game play by Proleague's standard, then I would say you are doing it wrong
I've watched plenty of non-PL SC2 games over different time periods. Each has led to only disappointment. I think there's a pattern here.
maybe you should pursue other interests, since this is clearly not working out for you
Who says I'm not? Being elsewhere and being here are not mutually exclusive.
On May 30 2012 01:39 Lightwip wrote: Such is the problem of a forgettable league. Few of us care about SC2. I don't even care enough to watch my favorite players there on a regular basis. Every time I give SC2 a chance I get disappointed again. Maybe I should stop.
If you judge SC2 game play by Proleague's standard, then I would say you are doing it wrong
I've watched plenty of non-PL SC2 games over different time periods. Each has led to only disappointment. I think there's a pattern here.
I understand. I'm a bit biased towards SC2 and you guys towards BW. Didn't follow any E-sports until Dreamhack Summer last year where there was SC2. Since then I'm in love with SC2. Tried to watch BW but I found it hard to follow, especially with the Korean casters. Now I can watch it for the really good plays from the very top players, but I don't know much about the game, especially not game theory.
If your problem is this, try watching the foreign leagues. It is of comparable entertainment values and in English.
I just watch Sayle, because I realize KeSPA's observers are really good at their job, and I just want to watch the best plays, and I got no one to root for besides TBLS.
Explain how SKT winning 3-2 had to play an ACE game which made it 3-3 an Stars won? WTF is SC2 win = 2 BW wins or what am I missing? Kespa is a joke with their pathetic hybrid system which is a failure which makes players play different game. Hey lets make a Hybrid football/basketball league with same players struggling to entertain us.
On May 30 2012 05:20 Hazzyboy wrote: Explain how SKT winning 3-2 had to play an ACE game which made it 3-3 an Stars won? WTF is SC2 win = 2 BW wins or what am I missing? Kespa is a joke with their pathetic hybrid system which is a failure which makes players play different game. Hey lets make a Hybrid football/basketball league with same players struggling to entertain us.
There are two BO3 before an Ace match. The first BO3 is BW and the Second is SC2 with SC2 Ace match. SKT won the BW BO3 2-0, WS won SC2 BO3 2-1. So it went to an Ace match, which WS won.
On May 30 2012 05:20 Hazzyboy wrote: Explain how SKT winning 3-2 had to play an ACE game which made it 3-3 an Stars won? WTF is SC2 win = 2 BW wins or what am I missing? Kespa is a joke with their pathetic hybrid system which is a failure which makes players play different game. Hey lets make a Hybrid football/basketball league with same players struggling to entertain us.
It's really not that hard to understand. Don't blame KeSPA for you're inability to understand a simple duel Bo3.
On May 30 2012 01:39 Lightwip wrote: Such is the problem of a forgettable league. Few of us care about SC2. I don't even care enough to watch my favorite players there on a regular basis. Every time I give SC2 a chance I get disappointed again. Maybe I should stop.
If you judge SC2 game play by Proleague's standard, then I would say you are doing it wrong
I've watched plenty of non-PL SC2 games over different time periods. Each has led to only disappointment. I think there's a pattern here.
maybe you should pursue other interests, since this is clearly not working out for you
Who says I'm not? Being elsewhere and being here are not mutually exclusive.
On May 30 2012 02:25 MetalPanda wrote:
On May 30 2012 02:09 Lightwip wrote:
On May 30 2012 01:51 Veldril wrote:
On May 30 2012 01:39 Lightwip wrote: Such is the problem of a forgettable league. Few of us care about SC2. I don't even care enough to watch my favorite players there on a regular basis. Every time I give SC2 a chance I get disappointed again. Maybe I should stop.
If you judge SC2 game play by Proleague's standard, then I would say you are doing it wrong
I've watched plenty of non-PL SC2 games over different time periods. Each has led to only disappointment. I think there's a pattern here.
I understand. I'm a bit biased towards SC2 and you guys towards BW. Didn't follow any E-sports until Dreamhack Summer last year where there was SC2. Since then I'm in love with SC2. Tried to watch BW but I found it hard to follow, especially with the Korean casters. Now I can watch it for the really good plays from the very top players, but I don't know much about the game, especially not game theory.
If your problem is this, try watching the foreign leagues. It is of comparable entertainment values and in English.
I just watch Sayle, because I realize KeSPA's observers are really good at their job, and I just want to watch the best plays, and I got no one to root for besides TBLS.
On May 30 2012 08:42 elagrion wrote: Honestly, after being destroyed in BW, this win doesn't really feel like a win...
And we feel awful after losing despite Bisu and Fantasy winning their BW sets like they should be.
Guess we're even.
Never thought it would be possible to be unhappy after watching Fantasy and Bisu win their sets in BW (especially after watching Fantasy's pleasing bio control.)
The Hype and Excitement of Proleague feels somehow emptier. Just a comment from a spectator and SKT fan.
On May 30 2012 08:42 elagrion wrote: Honestly, after being destroyed in BW, this win doesn't really feel like a win...
And we feel awful after losing despite Bisu and Fantasy winning their BW sets like they should be.
Guess we're even.
Never thought it would be possible to be unhappy after watching Fantasy and Bisu win their sets in BW (especially after watching Fantasy's pleasing bio control.)
The Hype and Excitement of Proleague feels somehow emptier. Just a comment from a spectator and SKT fan.
It is emptier. We shouldnt have 2 differents LR thread, most people on the Sc2 thread seem open about bw.. Well I know it has already been discussed a lot so I guess it won't happen.
On May 30 2012 13:20 MountainDewJunkie wrote: I find that I am not adjusting to this hybrid league well at all. I miss BW ace matches so much
Alternative being they still emphasize on BW would just means they have to had another transitional league after this one. They would just lose all of their BW fans if they went from a BW ace match league to a pure SC2 league, this way they at least make sure the BW fans have some degree of personal stake in SC2 and give it a chance. The goal is to transition BW players to SC2 unfortunately, if you go by this agenda this is pretty much they best they can do.
On May 30 2012 13:20 MountainDewJunkie wrote: I find that I am not adjusting to this hybrid league well at all. I miss BW ace matches so much
Alternative being they still emphasize on BW would just means they have to had another transitional league after this one. They would just lose all of their BW fans if they went from a BW ace match league to a pure SC2 league, this way they at least make sure the BW fans have some degree of personal stake in SC2 and give it a chance. The goal is to transition BW players to SC2 unfortunately, if you go by this agenda this is pretty much they best they can do.
Problem with this is that PL is dead to many of us now.
On May 30 2012 08:42 elagrion wrote: Honestly, after being destroyed in BW, this win doesn't really feel like a win...
And we feel awful after losing despite Bisu and Fantasy winning their BW sets like they should be.
Guess we're even.
hehe well at least I am happy just becouse Fantasy and Bisu won! both are players that I've loved since their beginning. I don't watch sc2.
I'm just confused why Fantasy wasn't played in the ACE match. I was hoping at least SKT would continue to play their S-class players in the ACE match unlike other teams like KT that keep playing Lizzy. It makes me furious. If the leagues must coexist then let me see my favorite players play ! I'm really glad they won the BW section and those games were awesome to watch but the results of this match made me very sad and start to rethink the PL direction. /confused.
And yes, I hate KT even more now because they play that stupid kid with that god aweful name and he's ruining it for a team that felt so complete last season. At least KT looked respectable last season.
On May 30 2012 08:42 elagrion wrote: Honestly, after being destroyed in BW, this win doesn't really feel like a win...
And we feel awful after losing despite Bisu and Fantasy winning their BW sets like they should be.
Guess we're even.
hehe well at least I am happy just becouse Fantasy and Bisu won! both are players that I've loved since their beginning. I don't watch sc2.
I'm just confused why Fantasy wasn't played in the ACE match. I was hoping at least SKT would continue to play their S-class players in the ACE match unlike other teams like KT that keep playing Lizzy. It makes me furious. If the leagues must coexist then let me see my favorite players play ! I'm really glad they won the BW section and those games were awesome to watch but the results of this match made me very sad and start to rethink the PL direction. /confused.
And yes, I hate KT even more now because they play that stupid kid with that god aweful name and he's ruining it for a team that felt so complete last season. At least KT looked respectable last season.
With some of the other teams, their aces are actually their best/or top tier sc2 player. Like effort for cj, jaedong may not be the best sc2 player on his team but he looks like one of the best, when compared to jaehoon anyway...
Fantasy on the other hand looked kinda underwhelming in sc2. Probably still practicing a lot of sc1.
On May 30 2012 08:42 elagrion wrote: Honestly, after being destroyed in BW, this win doesn't really feel like a win...
And we feel awful after losing despite Bisu and Fantasy winning their BW sets like they should be.
Guess we're even.
hehe well at least I am happy just becouse Fantasy and Bisu won! both are players that I've loved since their beginning. I don't watch sc2.
I'm just confused why Fantasy wasn't played in the ACE match. I was hoping at least SKT would continue to play their S-class players in the ACE match unlike other teams like KT that keep playing Lizzy. It makes me furious. If the leagues must coexist then let me see my favorite players play ! I'm really glad they won the BW section and those games were awesome to watch but the results of this match made me very sad and start to rethink the PL direction. /confused.
And yes, I hate KT even more now because they play that stupid kid with that god aweful name and he's ruining it for a team that felt so complete last season. At least KT looked respectable last season.
With some of the other teams, their aces are actually their best/or top tier sc2 player. Like effort for cj, jaedong may not be the best sc2 player on his team but he looks like one of the best, when compared to jaehoon anyway...
Fantasy on the other hand looked kinda underwhelming in sc2. Probably still practicing a lot of sc1.
I don't blame him. Not when it looks like this OSL is pretty much winnable.
On May 30 2012 08:42 elagrion wrote: Honestly, after being destroyed in BW, this win doesn't really feel like a win...
And we feel awful after losing despite Bisu and Fantasy winning their BW sets like they should be.
Guess we're even.
hehe well at least I am happy just becouse Fantasy and Bisu won! both are players that I've loved since their beginning. I don't watch sc2.
I'm just confused why Fantasy wasn't played in the ACE match. I was hoping at least SKT would continue to play their S-class players in the ACE match unlike other teams like KT that keep playing Lizzy. It makes me furious. If the leagues must coexist then let me see my favorite players play ! I'm really glad they won the BW section and those games were awesome to watch but the results of this match made me very sad and start to rethink the PL direction. /confused.
And yes, I hate KT even more now because they play that stupid kid with that god aweful name and he's ruining it for a team that felt so complete last season. At least KT looked respectable last season.
With some of the other teams, their aces are actually their best/or top tier sc2 player. Like effort for cj, jaedong may not be the best sc2 player on his team but he looks like one of the best, when compared to jaehoon anyway...
Fantasy on the other hand looked kinda underwhelming in sc2. Probably still practicing a lot of sc1.
I don't blame him. Not when it looks like this OSL is pretty much winnable.
True, but he still looks very good in both IMO. Bisu is underwhelming in SC2 however. But Best seemed like a good option too.
It's not like Sun is some no-name B-teamer either, really. I don't really see why are people angry about that; sure I'd love to see more of FBB, but there's nothing wrong with playing Sun either!
On May 30 2012 05:20 Hazzyboy wrote: Explain how SKT winning 3-2 had to play an ACE game which made it 3-3 an Stars won? WTF is SC2 win = 2 BW wins or what am I missing? Kespa is a joke with their pathetic hybrid system which is a failure which makes players play different game. Hey lets make a Hybrid football/basketball league with same players struggling to entertain us.
It's really not that hard to understand. Don't blame KeSPA for you're inability to understand a simple duel Bo3.
I watched PL for eternity and BO3 means that a team to 3 wins 1st wins. Duel system is for OSL/MSL and PL was always about team system. Kespa showed once again that they don't have a clue and created a slave league of some sort where a B-Teamer who would have 0 pro games is an ACE clutch playah.
On May 30 2012 05:20 Hazzyboy wrote: Explain how SKT winning 3-2 had to play an ACE game which made it 3-3 an Stars won? WTF is SC2 win = 2 BW wins or what am I missing? Kespa is a joke with their pathetic hybrid system which is a failure which makes players play different game. Hey lets make a Hybrid football/basketball league with same players struggling to entertain us.
It's really not that hard to understand. Don't blame KeSPA for you're inability to understand a simple duel Bo3.
I watched PL for eternity and BO3 means that a team to 3 wins 1st wins. Duel system is for OSL/MSL and PL was always about team system. Kespa showed once again that they don't have a clue and created a slave league of some sort where a B-Teamer who would have 0 pro games is an ACE clutch playah.
I wouldn't say Lizzy is clutch. His inexperience def shows. I agree with the above post that we must wait a few more weeks to see if it equalizes yet. However, I don't like having my team lose so be prepared to have nerd rage ensue soon.
EPT
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Fantasy<New Sniper Ridge>
ZerO
Bisu<Neo Ground Zero>![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cQyZQ.png)
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