This is probably a more important game for the Stars than it is for CJ, simple because CJ are tied with 9 wins (along with Stars and SKT Oh wait SKT is ahead with their win against STX). The advantage CJ holds is in their win differential, as long as they hold that and match the Stars in won games, they'll be ahead of the Stars on the ladder. Stars has less games to play as well, so if they lose this match, that'll be it for them. CJ can lose this game, and still make it into the playoffs by winning their next three games (thanks to their differential).
THink this is pretty important for a playoff spot if I am not mistaken, anyway Stars Fighting!hoping for Leta vs Soulkey, Effort vs Light and ZerO vs Movie.
Stakes are ridiculously high for both teams here, since they're both most likely competing for the #4 spot. Winner not only gets a win, they give their direct playoff competition a loss.
On February 28 2012 19:53 Hinanawi wrote: Stakes are ridiculously high for both teams here, since they're both most likely competing for the #4 spot. Winner not only gets a win, they give their direct playoff competition a loss.
What is the ranking now? Are all team still in the competition? Or are there teams that are already out of the playoffs no matter if they win their remaining games? The new format is hard to follow.
On February 28 2012 19:59 Le French wrote: What is the ranking now? Are all team still in the competition? Or are there teams that are already out of the playoffs no matter if they win their remaining games? The new format is hard to follow.
On February 28 2012 19:59 Le French wrote: What is the ranking now? Are all team still in the competition? Or are there teams that are already out of the playoffs no matter if they win their remaining games? The new format is hard to follow.
I think they play 3 full rounds, everyone vs everyone. Then the 1st team after the regular season goes automatically to the finals of the season and rest of the teams (2-5 I think) play in the playoffs ?
On February 28 2012 20:35 pencil-leads wrote: damn it shy's face make it impossible for me to cheer for anyone else unless he is playing jaedong or baby
well he was an ex oz member so i dont see no problems rooting for him
On February 28 2012 20:35 pencil-leads wrote: damn it shy's face make it impossible for me to cheer for anyone else unless he is playing jaedong or baby
well he was an ex oz member so i dont see no problems rooting for him
haha i mean seeing his face means auto cheering for him... regardless of his opponent (even Flash). with the exception of jaedong, baby.. and oh ya.. firebathero!
On February 28 2012 20:37 pylonsalad wrote: Shy is the best player picked up from the disbanded teams.
jaehoon and by far baby .
jaedong?
jeadong is oz but yeah i forgot oz was disbanded i was just considering team 8 as oz with jaedong being the center but guess the weed and lack of sleep doesnt help
On February 28 2012 20:53 mnesthes wrote: You know , I think this is the first time that the SPL Top 3 Terran ranking correctly reflects the scene. Flash, Fantasy, and Leta.
And I just have to say...It`s really annoying how many timing attacks/cheeses/all-in pushes terran`s have against zergs...Standard bio,standard mech,5 rax all in,this,2 port wraith,vulture drops,mech->bio (like leta vs jaedong last game),and God knows how many more. On the other hand zergs have 2h mutas,3h mutas,lurkers and some stupid zergling all in which worked last time in 2003... edit: Zergs can`t scout terrans base until they get mutas,while terran can scout much more easily..
On February 28 2012 20:52 Holgerius wrote: This build is fucking weird.
Flash did it before. He spread his marines to prevent baracks count and practically everything to be seen what he is doing. The went mm, while hiding his number, and pushed at the right time, just as Leta did this game.
On February 28 2012 20:57 pylonsalad wrote: Blahh. How you supposed to scout that? That's so dirty.
If it wasn't cross map he would have probably sacced an ovie. The vultures to clear out scouting lings were a nice touch.
I think Leta planned to use this build only if it was cross-position knowing that scouting is impossible. If it was close postions he probably would have gone 2-port.
On February 28 2012 20:57 pylonsalad wrote: Blahh. How you supposed to scout that? That's so dirty.
If it wasn't cross map he would have probably sacced an ovie. The vultures to clear out scouting lings were a nice touch.
You can`t sack an overlord so early...I`m not sure I ever seen it.
I thought when there is fast gas and no expo saccing an ovie is pretty standard? It would be definitely worth it. That push only worked because it was unscouted. And once stopped the terran would be in deep shit.
To win in PL, you have to create a build, make up a good strategy, a plan for every fucking game. It should be creative and abusive, so that your opponent gets caught off guard
On February 28 2012 20:54 letian wrote: The only fact that irritates me is when zergs of high caliber get busted like this
The metagame turns, and ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the age that gave it birth comes again. He who must not be named's shift of the metagame in Zerg favor is finally over. People studied up... Zerg need a new hero, a few more innovators (because seriously, other than ZerO, Zerg players invented nothing new since the 3 base spire into 5 hatch hydra bust anti-Bisu build-build), not just people with sharp management games (SK, Hydra, I'm looking at you guys).
On February 28 2012 21:05 hellbound wrote: Heh I guess that's one way of making sure a zerg wins a match :/
This season is really depressing.
Its been abysmal and disappointing, especially from the many cheese and mirror match ups. And hydra busts.
Then again, I have no say when I just began watching BW just now.
A year or so ago BW was a Zerg playground, back when Fantasy was hopeless at TvZ and really only Flash and Light were the big T threats. ZvP was heavily zerg favored as well.
On February 28 2012 20:54 letian wrote: The only fact that irritates me is when zergs of high caliber get busted like this
The metagame turns, and ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the age that gave it birth comes again. He who must not be named's shift of the metagame in Zerg favor is finally over. People studied up... Zerg need a new hero, a few more innovators (because seriously, other than ZerO, Zerg players invented nothing new since the 3 base spire into 5 hatch hydra bust anti-Bisu build-build), not just people with sharp management games (SK, Hydra, I'm looking at you guys).
It seems like zergs have very little space for inovations,especially in ZvT...
With one factory expand and two starport wraiths being such viable builds even when properly scouted, it's near suicide to account for every single cheese terran can pull-off one base if terran denies you scouting by playing safe. A smart player can abuse their advantage in the number of viable strategies to no ends, and I've always felt that terran versus zerg was the match-up where the difference was the greatest.
On February 28 2012 20:54 letian wrote: The only fact that irritates me is when zergs of high caliber get busted like this
The metagame turns, and ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the age that gave it birth comes again. He who must not be named's shift of the metagame in Zerg favor is finally over. People studied up... Zerg need a new hero, a few more innovators (because seriously, other than ZerO, Zerg players invented nothing new since the 3 base spire into 5 hatch hydra bust anti-Bisu build-build), not just people with sharp management games (SK, Hydra, I'm looking at you guys).
SC needs new stars and new competition more than new zerg strategies.
On February 28 2012 20:54 letian wrote: The only fact that irritates me is when zergs of high caliber get busted like this
The metagame turns, and ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the age that gave it birth comes again. He who must not be named's shift of the metagame in Zerg favor is finally over. People studied up... Zerg need a new hero, a few more innovators (because seriously, other than ZerO, Zerg players invented nothing new since the 3 base spire into 5 hatch hydra bust anti-Bisu build-build), not just people with sharp management games (SK, Hydra, I'm looking at you guys).
SC needs new stars and new competition more than new zerg strategies.
but with the Bo5 format it is hard to introduce new stars without taking a certain level of risks....
On February 28 2012 20:54 letian wrote: The only fact that irritates me is when zergs of high caliber get busted like this
The metagame turns, and ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the age that gave it birth comes again. He who must not be named's shift of the metagame in Zerg favor is finally over. People studied up... Zerg need a new hero, a few more innovators (because seriously, other than ZerO, Zerg players invented nothing new since the 3 base spire into 5 hatch hydra bust anti-Bisu build-build), not just people with sharp management games (SK, Hydra, I'm looking at you guys).
There is no such thing as a 5 hat bust -___-
To many zerg heroes got booted out of pro BW. Can you believe that once upon a time there was a high level zerg whose' best match-up was ZvT? And he'd go and boot Flash out of a starleague? Sounds like some sort of weird fantasy nowadays
On February 28 2012 21:07 Kiett wrote: Stars is pretty screwed. Light vs 3 CJ Tosses.
Unless Zero wins this one, then they might send hon_sin with some crazy shit against Snow/Movie. But its Zero playing ZvZ, who knows what will happen. btw, is free on the bench?
On February 28 2012 20:54 letian wrote: The only fact that irritates me is when zergs of high caliber get busted like this
The metagame turns, and ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the age that gave it birth comes again. He who must not be named's shift of the metagame in Zerg favor is finally over. People studied up... Zerg need a new hero, a few more innovators (because seriously, other than ZerO, Zerg players invented nothing new since the 3 base spire into 5 hatch hydra bust anti-Bisu build-build), not just people with sharp management games (SK, Hydra, I'm looking at you guys).
On February 28 2012 21:07 Kiett wrote: Stars is pretty screwed. Light vs 3 CJ Tosses.
Unless Zero wins this one, then they might send hon_sin with some crazy shit against Snow/Movie. But its Zero playing ZvZ, who knows what will happen. btw, is free on the bench?
Yeah I'm wondering if Free is going to play tonight, I haven't seen him in a while. Stars can still with this with Free and Hon_Sin. They can win with light too, as long as he doesn't play standard
On February 28 2012 21:07 Kiett wrote: Stars is pretty screwed. Light vs 3 CJ Tosses.
Unless Zero wins this one, then they might send hon_sin with some crazy shit against Snow/Movie. But its Zero playing ZvZ, who knows what will happen. btw, is free on the bench?
Yeah I'm wondering if Free is going to play tonight, I haven't seen him in a while. Stars can still with this with Free and Hon_Sin. They can win with light too, as long as he doesn't play standard
On February 28 2012 21:07 Kiett wrote: Stars is pretty screwed. Light vs 3 CJ Tosses.
Unless Zero wins this one, then they might send hon_sin with some crazy shit against Snow/Movie. But its Zero playing ZvZ, who knows what will happen. btw, is free on the bench?
Yeah I'm wondering if Free is going to play tonight, I haven't seen him in a while. Stars can still with this with Free and Hon_Sin. They can win with light too, as long as he doesn't play standard
There's only so many times you can 2fact before people start to catch on
On February 28 2012 21:07 Kiett wrote: Stars is pretty screwed. Light vs 3 CJ Tosses.
Unless Zero wins this one, then they might send hon_sin with some crazy shit against Snow/Movie. But its Zero playing ZvZ, who knows what will happen. btw, is free on the bench?
Ah that kid! I'm pretty sure he is abundantly motivated by the team managers that when he comes out later he'll be hungry for the win!
ZerO once again makes me smile. I just love this guy to bits - he knows how to break the mold, not just execute cookie cutter builds. Only Zerg I consistently enjoy watching nowadays.
On February 28 2012 21:07 Kiett wrote: Stars is pretty screwed. Light vs 3 CJ Tosses.
Unless Zero wins this one, then they might send hon_sin with some crazy shit against Snow/Movie. But its Zero playing ZvZ, who knows what will happen. btw, is free on the bench?
Ah that kid! I'm pretty sure he is abundantly motivated by the team managers that when he comes out later he'll be hungry for the win!
On February 28 2012 21:21 Bop4yH wrote: I didn't knew Nanashin is also streaming. Switched now, thanks! btw, who knows, why his stream doesn't apear in the list?
On February 28 2012 21:19 letian wrote: I've read 3 pages and none did say how Zero actually have won!!! >_<
basically zero had a hidden expansion elsewhere. his lings at the main were guarding the main and keeping hydra's forces 'distracted'. but the thing is hydra had a natural and zero 'did not have'. yet their spire were up at roughly the same time. upon realizing this hydra sent his overlords to the 9 o'clock to confirm but it was too late. that hidden expansion spawned lings and they ran towards hydra's base. hydra then sent his lings from zero's main back for backup but zero's lings at the main gave chase. hydra could not defend. gg
Wise ninja expo. I remember another zerg, (roro?) i dont remember exactly, almost did it with jaedong Fortunately for jaedong that game he was successful with his early harass. Let me check the record.
Light vs Horang2? Oh the memories...Destination...He goes out with a probe but gets stopped by panda bear guy...He build gateways in lights base->DT`s-> cannons in base-> rape...
He also made sure to go lair before speed and spire ASAP to fool Hydra into thinking it was 12pool timing and that he was preparing for an air game when he was really planning to end it before mutas popped.
On February 28 2012 21:24 pylonsalad wrote: He also made sure to go lair before speed and spire ASAP to fool Hydra into thinking it was 12pool timing and that he was preparing for an air game when he was really planning to end it before mutas popped.
It is impossible do get a spire at 12pool timing while going 12 hat. There is no way hydra didn't know it was 12 hat.
On February 28 2012 21:39 Itachii wrote: Worked quite well actually, Light's tank count is kind low, horang has to remacro asap. Which will be easy with his current gate count.
worked well? Horang2 went from up 30 supply to down 20 supply, id say that was crap for the Tossy
On February 28 2012 21:39 Itachii wrote: Worked quite well actually, Light's tank count is kind low, horang has to remacro asap. Which will be easy with his current gate count.
worked well? Horang2 went from up 30 supply to down 20 supply, id say that was crap for the Tossy
He delayed Light's timing, theres something else in SC than looking at (inaccurate during broadcast) unit count.
On February 28 2012 21:40 PurePwnageofTerran wrote:
On February 28 2012 21:39 Itachii wrote: Worked quite well actually, Light's tank count is kind low, horang has to remacro asap. Which will be easy with his current gate count.
worked well? Horang2 went from up 30 supply to down 20 supply, id say that was crap for the Tossy
He delayed Light's timing, theres something else in SC than looking at (inaccurate during broadcast) unit count.
Oh well, nice try Light (considering his usual level of TvP) It all went down hill after mid-game. Time for Snow/Movie vs hon_sin, unless free suddenly appears.
On February 28 2012 21:50 pencil-leads wrote: horang2... one of the reasons i like to see him play is because of the way he planned out the layout of his base.. everything is so neat and tidy
Light has given countless TvP games away by being too passive. He was on even supply with Horang and just lets him expand without pressure. So frustrating to watch.
On February 28 2012 21:55 Scarecrow wrote: How many T's are legit good at tvp? just flash and fantasy?
So many t's struggle: Mind, Sea, Light, FBH, Piano
It says alot that the fourth best TvP by elo is Mind...
Historically the matchup is 5.5:4.5 in favor of Protoss. A win is well within reach, but slightly more burden is always placed on him then on the Protoss player.
There are freaks like Bisu who are really good at PvZ but fall flat in other matchups.
Horang fails the zealot harass then fails the dt rush AND then attacked in a unfavorable position losing all of his army and still wins..... Light just go 2 fact all the time in tvp
On February 28 2012 21:58 SkelA wrote: Horang fails the zealot harass then fails the dt rush AND then attacked in a unfavorable position losing all of his army and still wins..... Light just go 2 fact all the time in tvp
yer. light let horang expo without ANY harassment, i think he killed like less than 10 probes the whole game. he just turtledup and massed tanks
Seriously, wasting time and risking 2 reavers to kill lone goons?Wtf is he doing, his build was designed to hit before snow's 2nd reaver pops and now hes running around doing nothing.
Lol flying didnt watch his shuttle He was scouted in the drop yet he allowed the drop behind mineral line while probes were already evacuating. Had he dropped on the nexus he would have gotten at least 20 probe kills.
I don't understand why snow never got storm. His archives was faster and it's not like archons were going to help him that much in the situation he was in.
On February 28 2012 22:32 baubo wrote: Oh light's TvP. So lol. I feel sorry that he keeps getting protosses. Stars coach need some better lineup decisions.
exactly what I was thinking watching the game. Light TvP lol autolose
Light already used up his TvP karma for the round. Doesn't matter what everyone else say, he has one win, and that counts for something in my eyes. You da mang Light.
CJ is still the favorite to make the playoffs over Stars, though. They have 3 games left-- STX, ACE, and KT. Favored to win 2, and they have the +/- edge over Woongjin. So that means WJN needs to beat both Team 8 (who they have yet to defeat), and Khan, the current top team.
On February 28 2012 22:21 Hyde wrote:
Where is bearbuddy!
Weekday matches are no go for me. It's like 5AM EST or something -_-b. Besides, Stars winning and me not watching? Coincidence? I think not.
On February 29 2012 02:12 reincremate wrote: Game 5 was nice. I think Snow was sent to snipe and hon_sin and maybe Flying was sent to snipe Skyhigh.
Flying was sent to take down Snow. His PvP is supposedly good. According to DES, Flying performed well while playing against Samsung tosses in an evaluation tournament. Stork at first thought it was Free.
On February 29 2012 02:12 reincremate wrote: Game 5 was nice. I think Snow was sent to snipe and hon_sin and maybe Flying was sent to snipe Skyhigh.
Flying was sent to take down Snow. His PvP is supposedly good. According to DES, Flying performed well while playing against Samsung tosses in an evaluation tournament. Stork at first thought it was Free.
Oh okay, thanks for clarifying. I just thought that since PvP is the most chance-dependent match-up right now and since he didn't have some gimmicky build prepared, he probably wasn't sent out to face a P.
Flying was prepared for PvP, while Snow probably expected terran to face him.But that still doesn't change the fact that Snow should have won with such advantage, not only because of economic lead after earlier nex, but also due to Flying missing his timing window completely.
On February 29 2012 02:12 reincremate wrote: Game 5 was nice. I think Snow was sent to snipe and hon_sin and maybe Flying was sent to snipe Skyhigh.
Flying was sent to take down Snow. His PvP is supposedly good. According to DES, Flying performed well while playing against Samsung tosses in an evaluation tournament. Stork at first thought it was Free.
Oh okay, thanks for clarifying. I just thought that since PvP is the most chance-dependent match-up right now and since he didn't have some gimmicky build prepared, he probably wasn't sent out to face a P.
I would call getting robo support bay before starting goon range gimmicky. I'm sure he even got shuttle speed before goon range. I don't think people are recognizing how much his shuttle speed helped him. Sure he didn't kill a lot of probes but he killed quite a few goons for free and it made it easier for him to micro his reavers in the first large engagement to do more damage than Snow did with his. Even though Snow had an earlier nexus I don't think he was "ahead" at any point in the game because Flying had a much more mobile army.
i'm surprised the ratings are low for these matches - i truly enjoyed every single one. even the two shorter matches were at kind of interesting strategically.
On February 29 2012 09:48 RamenStyle wrote: So where does this leave CJ for the playoffs? Do they need a miracle or is it still feasible?
It is still feasible. They only have played thrice. You need to play 7 games in one round. CJ still have 4 games left in their pocket, the third and fourth position is basically a fierce competition between Stars, Entus, T1, and Team 8. However if STX do manage to take it from KT, then the second place just became less permanent.
No, CJ has 3 games left. Despite being ranked 5th right now, they're more likely to get the 4th spot due to the strength of the remaining schedule and better differential than Woongjin Stars. SKT seems pretty safe on getting into the playoffs due to their record and their good differential, and it's basically a 2 horse race between woongjin stars and cj entus for the final spot.
Team 8 has a really long shot in getting into the playoffs. Still possible, but they need a miracle.
On February 29 2012 10:57 bearbuddy wrote: No, CJ has 3 games left. Despite being ranked 5th right now, they're more likely to get the 4th spot due to the strength of the remaining schedule and better differential than Woongjin Stars. SKT seems pretty safe on getting into the playoffs due to their record and their good differential, and it's basically a 2 horse race between woongjin stars and cj entus for the final spot.
Team 8 has a really long shot in getting into the playoffs. Still possible, but they need a miracle.
I'm hoping for Team 8 and Stars making it to playoff. If JangBi can pull off that OSL comeback of his life, then Team 8 can do the same too.
On February 29 2012 10:57 bearbuddy wrote: No, CJ has 3 games left. Despite being ranked 5th right now, they're more likely to get the 4th spot due to the strength of the remaining schedule and better differential than Woongjin Stars. SKT seems pretty safe on getting into the playoffs due to their record and their good differential, and it's basically a 2 horse race between woongjin stars and cj entus for the final spot.
Team 8 has a really long shot in getting into the playoffs. Still possible, but they need a miracle.
I'm hoping for Team 8 and Stars making it to playoff. If JangBi can pull off that OSL comeback of his life, then Team 8 can do the same too.
I think that would require SKT to lose the 3 next games, CJ to go at most 1-2, and Team8 win all 4 of their games, while Stars go 1-1 with loss to Team 8. heh.
a few things: Wow. light really does suck hard at TvP. Finally someone decides to do a 1 base tvz, it's been so long since i saw a legit sunken buster (by the terran) Effort really rusty
Leta's game was hilarious; he had this smug look on his face the whole time. He goes 2 port wraith so often that if he stays on 1 base, any zerg would automatically assume he's doing it and thus wouldn't bother sacrificing an overlord to scout.
Effort disappoints. How did he once beat Flash in the OSL? Now, he is a shadow of his former glory. Never seen a zerg make so many mistakes in one game.
EPT
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2011-2012 Proleague Season 1/Round 3![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ugUPM.png)
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Woongjin Stars vs CJ Entus ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qGfEo.png)
sHy « Neo Chain Reaction » 
EffOrt
Leta![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/KQmps.png)
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