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On January 08 2012 00:40 Sawamura wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 00:30 Dakkas wrote:On January 07 2012 22:22 Sawamura wrote:On January 07 2012 22:19 Dakkas wrote:On January 07 2012 22:12 Sawamura wrote:Being objective my ass , I didn't started the hate band wagon , I was merely stating that wooki shouldn't follow bisu foot steps after cheese shenanigans that he pulled it out on him today .
But Noooooooooo , people have to come and tell me wooki should aspire to be like bisu so he can become as good as him to cheese a poor rookie in a box game . I see you completely ignored what I was saying You ask me if I am blinded by hatred over bisu and I said no, I was merely saying there is other protoss who are better fitted to be a role model after today's game . Who wants to be a bisu 2.0 after getting cheesed by the person you look up to ? . Name me a player that has never cheesed. Until, shut up because you're just being butt-hurt. You don't seem to understand what I have written do you ? It's not about never been cheese , Wooki looks up to bisu as a player to mould after , however after this incident , it's unlikely he would look at his role model the same way as he did .
He didn't expected a canon rush, he didn't scout on a map that begs to witness canon rush every PvP, then he got roflpwned. If I were him I would be disappointed to have not survived more than 5 minutes against my idol, and practice against cheeses.
I am not sure that the other way round, Bisu would have lost that easily. Wookie could have stayed in the game if he hadn't done stupid mistake such as building his second nexus at his nat where Bisu could just expand his rush, or not making a forge himself.
Good players win. It's not more honorable to win after a 45 minutes macro game than pwning someone with a nice cheese.
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On January 08 2012 02:59 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 00:40 Sawamura wrote:On January 08 2012 00:30 Dakkas wrote:On January 07 2012 22:22 Sawamura wrote:On January 07 2012 22:19 Dakkas wrote:On January 07 2012 22:12 Sawamura wrote:Being objective my ass , I didn't started the hate band wagon , I was merely stating that wooki shouldn't follow bisu foot steps after cheese shenanigans that he pulled it out on him today .
But Noooooooooo , people have to come and tell me wooki should aspire to be like bisu so he can become as good as him to cheese a poor rookie in a box game . I see you completely ignored what I was saying You ask me if I am blinded by hatred over bisu and I said no, I was merely saying there is other protoss who are better fitted to be a role model after today's game . Who wants to be a bisu 2.0 after getting cheesed by the person you look up to ? . Name me a player that has never cheesed. Until, shut up because you're just being butt-hurt. You don't seem to understand what I have written do you ? It's not about never been cheese , Wooki looks up to bisu as a player to mould after , however after this incident , it's unlikely he would look at his role model the same way as he did . He didn't expected a canon rush, he didn't scout on a map that begs to witness canon rush every PvP, then he got roflpwned. If I were him I would be disappointed to have not survived more than 5 minutes against my idol, and practice against cheeses. I am not sure that the other way round, Bisu would have lost that easily. Wookie could have stayed in the game if he hadn't done stupid mistake such as building his second nexus at his nat where Bisu could just expand his rush, or not making a forge himself. Good players win. It's not more honorable to win after a 45 minutes macro game than pwning someone with a nice cheese.
Uhm... actually it is. While I agree with pretty much the rest of your post, it is a known fact that winning with cheese usually requires much less skill in terms of execution than a drawn out macro game.
If you consider the game time alone it's pretty logical imho. The longer the game goes, the more room to make mistakes, wrong decisions, etc. and the more impact it has if you micro/macro/scout worse than your opponent. Thus a win without cheese is always worth more than a cheesy one the way I see it. That does not mean a player shouldn't cheese once a while. You always have to mix up your game.
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On January 08 2012 03:08 Ermac wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 02:59 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 08 2012 00:40 Sawamura wrote:On January 08 2012 00:30 Dakkas wrote:On January 07 2012 22:22 Sawamura wrote:On January 07 2012 22:19 Dakkas wrote:On January 07 2012 22:12 Sawamura wrote:Being objective my ass , I didn't started the hate band wagon , I was merely stating that wooki shouldn't follow bisu foot steps after cheese shenanigans that he pulled it out on him today .
But Noooooooooo , people have to come and tell me wooki should aspire to be like bisu so he can become as good as him to cheese a poor rookie in a box game . I see you completely ignored what I was saying You ask me if I am blinded by hatred over bisu and I said no, I was merely saying there is other protoss who are better fitted to be a role model after today's game . Who wants to be a bisu 2.0 after getting cheesed by the person you look up to ? . Name me a player that has never cheesed. Until, shut up because you're just being butt-hurt. You don't seem to understand what I have written do you ? It's not about never been cheese , Wooki looks up to bisu as a player to mould after , however after this incident , it's unlikely he would look at his role model the same way as he did . He didn't expected a canon rush, he didn't scout on a map that begs to witness canon rush every PvP, then he got roflpwned. If I were him I would be disappointed to have not survived more than 5 minutes against my idol, and practice against cheeses. I am not sure that the other way round, Bisu would have lost that easily. Wookie could have stayed in the game if he hadn't done stupid mistake such as building his second nexus at his nat where Bisu could just expand his rush, or not making a forge himself. Good players win. It's not more honorable to win after a 45 minutes macro game than pwning someone with a nice cheese. Uhm... actually it is. While I agree with pretty much the rest of your post, it is a known fact that winning with cheese usually requires much less skill in terms of execution than a drawn out macro game. If you consider the game time alone it's pretty logical imho. The longer the game goes, the more room to make mistakes, wrong decisions, etc. and the more impact it has if you micro/macro/scout worse than your opponent. Thus a win without cheese is always worth more than a cheesy one the way I see it. That does not mean a player shouldn't cheese once a while. You always have to mix up your game.
I don't think Bisu was scared to play a standard game. He just chose a particular strat. So you have a point in that the longer the game, the more taxing. But Bisu is more than capable of playing late-game.
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On January 08 2012 03:31 xXFireandIceXx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 03:08 Ermac wrote:On January 08 2012 02:59 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 08 2012 00:40 Sawamura wrote:On January 08 2012 00:30 Dakkas wrote:On January 07 2012 22:22 Sawamura wrote:On January 07 2012 22:19 Dakkas wrote:On January 07 2012 22:12 Sawamura wrote:Being objective my ass , I didn't started the hate band wagon , I was merely stating that wooki shouldn't follow bisu foot steps after cheese shenanigans that he pulled it out on him today .
But Noooooooooo , people have to come and tell me wooki should aspire to be like bisu so he can become as good as him to cheese a poor rookie in a box game . I see you completely ignored what I was saying You ask me if I am blinded by hatred over bisu and I said no, I was merely saying there is other protoss who are better fitted to be a role model after today's game . Who wants to be a bisu 2.0 after getting cheesed by the person you look up to ? . Name me a player that has never cheesed. Until, shut up because you're just being butt-hurt. You don't seem to understand what I have written do you ? It's not about never been cheese , Wooki looks up to bisu as a player to mould after , however after this incident , it's unlikely he would look at his role model the same way as he did . He didn't expected a canon rush, he didn't scout on a map that begs to witness canon rush every PvP, then he got roflpwned. If I were him I would be disappointed to have not survived more than 5 minutes against my idol, and practice against cheeses. I am not sure that the other way round, Bisu would have lost that easily. Wookie could have stayed in the game if he hadn't done stupid mistake such as building his second nexus at his nat where Bisu could just expand his rush, or not making a forge himself. Good players win. It's not more honorable to win after a 45 minutes macro game than pwning someone with a nice cheese. Uhm... actually it is. While I agree with pretty much the rest of your post, it is a known fact that winning with cheese usually requires much less skill in terms of execution than a drawn out macro game. If you consider the game time alone it's pretty logical imho. The longer the game goes, the more room to make mistakes, wrong decisions, etc. and the more impact it has if you micro/macro/scout worse than your opponent. Thus a win without cheese is always worth more than a cheesy one the way I see it. That does not mean a player shouldn't cheese once a while. You always have to mix up your game. I don't think Bisu was scared to play a standard game. He just chose a particular strat. So you have a point in that the longer the game, the more taxing. But Bisu is more than capable of playing late-game.
As I said, I wasn't implying anything. The only point I disagreed with was that a cheese win has the same weight as a straight up win.
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Just watched the vods
here are my thoughts
Game 1:
greedy build vs flash, didn't pay off and soo looked like a complete noob
seriously soo you have to see things like that coming wayyy before that
Game 2:
Hyuk had bo advantage and had ling advantage at the beginning and could've won the ling battle if he ran his lings by and had all his lings attack instead of having 5 of his lings move up the ramp
overall I think that hyuk played pretty bad and wasn't handling the harass good enough
I think action should've won and that way we would've seen a stats vs fanta match
Game 3:
It really seemed like wooki was going to check for a cannon rush but i guess he didn't lol
in that game you can really see how a rookie's crisis management mentality is
he never got a forge
and he expanded to his natural
both were bad decisions and bisu capitalized on them
Game 4:
i said it before and i'll say it again
best is going to be a BEAST this year
i really like his double stargate play and he was really active with his corsairs
the day of the dohsairs might be over and best completely dismantled hoejja
he needs to be a little more aware of what's going on though
he knew that hoejja had early burrow but yet he got denied an expansion and lost a few HT to a few burrowed lings
After game thoughts:
SKT's zerg lineup needs to improve or there is no way they're going to win this PL season, despite currently being #1
I also want to see more of by.sun it seems that after his demoralizing loss to SK, he hasn't seen any game time (besides his game vs turn)
at least put him up vs flash and see how he does, he did do really good vs sea (didn't see his game vs turn)
Also, I wish i got to see stats vs fanta =\
overall,
BOO YEAH
SKT 3-1 again
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ktflash strikes once again. i love that we stomped kt, but im kinda sad we didnt get to see an awesome stats vs fanta ace match.
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On January 08 2012 04:56 Soft`Soap wrote:
I also want to see more of by.sun it seems that after his demoralizing loss to SK, he hasn't seen any game time (besides his game vs turn)
at least put him up vs flash and see how he does, he did do really good vs sea (didn't see his game vs turn)
He cannot play because he's recently had a surgery and need to rest.
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On January 08 2012 04:56 Soft`Soap wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Just watched the vods
here are my thoughts
Game 1:
greedy build vs flash, didn't pay off and soo looked like a complete noob
seriously soo you have to see things like that coming wayyy before that
Game 2:
Hyuk had bo advantage and had ling advantage at the beginning and could've won the ling battle if he ran his lings by and had all his lings attack instead of having 5 of his lings move up the ramp
overall I think that hyuk played pretty bad and wasn't handling the harass good enough
I think action should've won and that way we would've seen a stats vs fanta match
Game 3:
It really seemed like wooki was going to check for a cannon rush but i guess he didn't lol
in that game you can really see how a rookie's crisis management mentality is
he never got a forge
and he expanded to his natural
both were bad decisions and bisu capitalized on them
Game 4:
i said it before and i'll say it again
best is going to be a BEAST this year
i really like his double stargate play and he was really active with his corsairs
the day of the dohsairs might be over and best completely dismantled hoejja
he needs to be a little more aware of what's going on though
he knew that hoejja had early burrow but yet he got denied an expansion and lost a few HT to a few burrowed lings
After game thoughts:
SKT's zerg lineup needs to improve or there is no way they're going to win this PL season, despite currently being #1 I also want to see more of by.sun it seems that after his demoralizing loss to SK, he hasn't seen any game time (besides his game vs turn) at least put him up vs flash and see how he does, he did do really good vs sea (didn't see his game vs turn) + Show Spoiler +Also, I wish i got to see stats vs fanta =\
overall,
BOO YEAH
SKT 3-1 again
He (by.Sun) just got out of hospital after a surgery. Rather than his demoralizing lost to SK, i would assume that (leading to lack of practice + health condition) would be the reason that he has not been fielded in the recent games. A good thing we have enough strength to win regardless, tho i would have liked to see him play and accumulate experience 
Edit: Kamikami too fast T_T
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On January 08 2012 02:59 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 00:40 Sawamura wrote:On January 08 2012 00:30 Dakkas wrote:On January 07 2012 22:22 Sawamura wrote:On January 07 2012 22:19 Dakkas wrote:On January 07 2012 22:12 Sawamura wrote:Being objective my ass , I didn't started the hate band wagon , I was merely stating that wooki shouldn't follow bisu foot steps after cheese shenanigans that he pulled it out on him today .
But Noooooooooo , people have to come and tell me wooki should aspire to be like bisu so he can become as good as him to cheese a poor rookie in a box game . I see you completely ignored what I was saying You ask me if I am blinded by hatred over bisu and I said no, I was merely saying there is other protoss who are better fitted to be a role model after today's game . Who wants to be a bisu 2.0 after getting cheesed by the person you look up to ? . Name me a player that has never cheesed. Until, shut up because you're just being butt-hurt. You don't seem to understand what I have written do you ? It's not about never been cheese , Wooki looks up to bisu as a player to mould after , however after this incident , it's unlikely he would look at his role model the same way as he did . He didn't expected a canon rush, he didn't scout on a map that begs to witness canon rush every PvP, then he got roflpwned. If I were him I would be disappointed to have not survived more than 5 minutes against my idol, and practice against cheeses. I am not sure that the other way round, Bisu would have lost that easily. Wookie could have stayed in the game if he hadn't done stupid mistake such as building his second nexus at his nat where Bisu could just expand his rush, or not making a forge himself. Good players win. It's not more honorable to win after a 45 minutes macro game than pwning someone with a nice cheese.
i have nothing against cheeses but that cheese wasnt nice it was dirty and it wasnt new it was just copy of brave vs jaehoon , i mean like u need no skill what so ever to copy that just build canons lol no micro required or nothing (Bisu pump fisting after wining that game was just hilarious - dude u cannon rushed a rookie) , even E player on iccup could do that , u think thats honorable way to win? i dont think so , i must agree i got really mad last night when i saw it live but meh winning games is more important than playing showgames or something like that , the only 2 people that impressed me yday was Best (how come he became so good vZ o.O?) and coach Park ,
Anyway that maps looks stupid, i just wonder how can u defend against it if u didnt scout canons until they are warping inside your base?
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On January 08 2012 05:57 George_the_man wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 02:59 Biff The Understudy wrote:On January 08 2012 00:40 Sawamura wrote:On January 08 2012 00:30 Dakkas wrote:On January 07 2012 22:22 Sawamura wrote:On January 07 2012 22:19 Dakkas wrote:On January 07 2012 22:12 Sawamura wrote:Being objective my ass , I didn't started the hate band wagon , I was merely stating that wooki shouldn't follow bisu foot steps after cheese shenanigans that he pulled it out on him today .
But Noooooooooo , people have to come and tell me wooki should aspire to be like bisu so he can become as good as him to cheese a poor rookie in a box game . I see you completely ignored what I was saying You ask me if I am blinded by hatred over bisu and I said no, I was merely saying there is other protoss who are better fitted to be a role model after today's game . Who wants to be a bisu 2.0 after getting cheesed by the person you look up to ? . Name me a player that has never cheesed. Until, shut up because you're just being butt-hurt. You don't seem to understand what I have written do you ? It's not about never been cheese , Wooki looks up to bisu as a player to mould after , however after this incident , it's unlikely he would look at his role model the same way as he did . He didn't expected a canon rush, he didn't scout on a map that begs to witness canon rush every PvP, then he got roflpwned. If I were him I would be disappointed to have not survived more than 5 minutes against my idol, and practice against cheeses. I am not sure that the other way round, Bisu would have lost that easily. Wookie could have stayed in the game if he hadn't done stupid mistake such as building his second nexus at his nat where Bisu could just expand his rush, or not making a forge himself. Good players win. It's not more honorable to win after a 45 minutes macro game than pwning someone with a nice cheese. i have nothing against cheeses but that cheese wasnt nice it was dirty and it wasnt new it was just copy of brave vs jaehoon , i mean like u need no skill what so ever to copy that just build canons lol no micro required or nothing (Bisu pump fisting after wining that game was just hilarious - dude u cannon rushed a rookie) , even E player on iccup could do that , u think thats honorable way to win? i dont think so , i must agree i got really mad last night when i saw it live but meh winning games is more important than playing showgames or something like that , the only 2 people that impressed me yday was Best (how come he became so good vZ o.O?) and coach Park , Anyway that maps looks stupid, i just wonder how can u defend against it if u didnt scout canons until they are warping inside your base?
Dude chill, Flash will get his revenge for Wooki when the time comes
Remember what he did to Soulkey after Free pulled scouts on ForGG?
+ Show Spoiler +He went mech and then took 10 bases, refusing to attack the zerg while keeping the zerg boxed in his corner of the map for 30 minutes
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im cool , im just wondering what is the best tactic to protect vs that kind of cheese , cause canon rush in PvP on that maps works so good, like Wooki looked for for cheese but he didnt go low enough to see pylon , wasnt even close , and even if he did it would take so much time for probes to climb up on that hill that 1st cannon would prolly be warped anyway..?
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United States7639 Posts
On January 08 2012 06:17 George_the_man wrote:
im cool , im just wondering what is the best tactic to protect vs that kind of cheese , cause canon rush in PvP on that maps works so good, like Wooki looked for for cheese but he didnt go low enough to see pylon , wasnt even close , and even if he did it would take so much time for probes to climb up on that hill that 1st cannon would prolly be warped anyway..?
He should have scouted it, and then built his own forge. I feel bad for Wooki, but meh, you learn something every time you get cheesed so badly. If Bisu didnt do it this time, soneone would have eventually. The more you get cheesed, the more you learn to scout more carefully and have better crisis management.
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On January 08 2012 06:17 George_the_man wrote:
im cool , im just wondering what is the best tactic to protect vs that kind of cheese , cause canon rush in PvP on that maps works so good, like Wooki looked for for cheese but he didnt go low enough to see pylon , wasnt even close , and even if he did it would take so much time for probes to climb up on that hill that 1st cannon would prolly be warped anyway..?
If that cheese was so good,then everyone would use it. And if Wooki built a forge as soon as he saw that first cannon...He would have easily defended his natural (with only one cannon).
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On January 08 2012 01:49 pyrogenetix wrote:
lol after watching that game I knew the Bisu hate was going to blow up. If someone like Nal_ra did this back in the day people would be complimenting him on his map knowledge, timing, creativity and mind games, but lo behold Bisu did it, then he must be a shit eating faggot.
Seriously you don't know what it means to cheese. Wooki obviously predicted Bisu to play a long management game where his superior skills would be exponentially more advantageous as every minute passed, but Bisu tricked him. This for me is an incredibly ballsy move. Wooki was millimeters away from scouting the pylon and winning the game. He has no one but himself to blame on a 1v1 map. I bet Bisu's heart was pounding hard as a freight train when he placed the pylon behind Wooki's base. It was a practiced and calculated build.
Anyway this is what makes SC fun.
Imagine the hate from people like you if Wooki had been cheesing Bisu, lol
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On January 08 2012 06:35 Kiett wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 06:17 George_the_man wrote:
im cool , im just wondering what is the best tactic to protect vs that kind of cheese , cause canon rush in PvP on that maps works so good, like Wooki looked for for cheese but he didnt go low enough to see pylon , wasnt even close , and even if he did it would take so much time for probes to climb up on that hill that 1st cannon would prolly be warped anyway..? He should have scouted it, and then built his own forge. I feel bad for Wooki, but meh, you learn something every time you get cheesed so badly. If Bisu didnt do it this time, soneone would have eventually. The more you get cheesed, the more you learn to scout more carefully and have better crisis management.
Rofl, fans like you are hilarious. If Bisu had gotten cheesed you would have been whining about how disappointing of a game it was and how much Wooki is such an inferior player he has to cheese Bisu. But when Bisu cheeses you talk about how it's a good learning experience for Wooki?
Seriously get over yourselves. It's a game, cheese happens. If anything just be glad Bisu is finally learning from Flash, the best player to ever touch SC.
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On January 08 2012 06:49 Vuk_91 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 06:17 George_the_man wrote:
im cool , im just wondering what is the best tactic to protect vs that kind of cheese , cause canon rush in PvP on that maps works so good, like Wooki looked for for cheese but he didnt go low enough to see pylon , wasnt even close , and even if he did it would take so much time for probes to climb up on that hill that 1st cannon would prolly be warped anyway..? If that cheese was so good,then everyone would use it. And if Wooki built a forge as soon as he saw that first cannon...He would have easily defended his natural (with only one cannon).
Off topic, but im rather curious what follow-up Bisu had if that had happened.. Im pretty sure as Pros, they have follow-up for most imaginable situations after the opening, and just won't go "oh fuck" should Wookie decided to have enough money to build a Forge.
And yea, im pretty sure even if Wookie built a forge he would have been MEGA behind regardless. 400 + 100 + 150 + 150 (Nexus + Pylon + Forge + Canoon) = 800, and an Eternity of no mining. That's if he has the money in the first place. If he had placed down a Forge, Bisu would have simply not leap-frogging cannon but tech/eco up at home and roll him a few minutes later.
@ George_the_man
I think it should have been common knowledge by now that if u didn't manage to scout a cheese, you are pretty much screwed. 3-Gate-Goons and couldn't scout his DT-first? Dead. CC-first and didn't scout his Proxy Rax? Dead. PvP and didn't scout Cannon Rush? Well expect the same. It really isn't hard to walk your probie down the ledge another 2-3 seconds and check for any shenanigans. Not to mention you can block the ramp and prevent their probe from going down if you scouted it late (~time Forge completes).
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On January 08 2012 06:49 Vuk_91 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 06:17 George_the_man wrote:
im cool , im just wondering what is the best tactic to protect vs that kind of cheese , cause canon rush in PvP on that maps works so good, like Wooki looked for for cheese but he didnt go low enough to see pylon , wasnt even close , and even if he did it would take so much time for probes to climb up on that hill that 1st cannon would prolly be warped anyway..? If that cheese was so good,then everyone would use it. And if Wooki built a forge as soon as he saw that first cannon...He would have easily defended his natural (with only one cannon).
No, because as soon as you scout this , you can block the ramp with probes and its pretty much autowin. Thing is if u dont scout this, ur scouting probes reaches opponents base too late to react , and first zealot is too late to block the enemy probe so is it instant loose if u let opponents probe to your base??
Making another nexus forge + canons with no mining for long time - meh i think u would be too much behind to come back,
edit" freak , well i think ure wrong because we had already 5 PvPs and i dont remember people scouting THAT FAR to scout Bisus placement of pylong and forge it takes a lot of time to go that far and come back it takes like 15 seconds at least that is a lot ( i think first zealot will be already out ready to block ramp if u do this) , i will really look forward for another PvPs on that map to see if every progamer will scout for that cheese in the start
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On January 08 2012 07:10 ffreakk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 06:49 Vuk_91 wrote:On January 08 2012 06:17 George_the_man wrote:
im cool , im just wondering what is the best tactic to protect vs that kind of cheese , cause canon rush in PvP on that maps works so good, like Wooki looked for for cheese but he didnt go low enough to see pylon , wasnt even close , and even if he did it would take so much time for probes to climb up on that hill that 1st cannon would prolly be warped anyway..? If that cheese was so good,then everyone would use it. And if Wooki built a forge as soon as he saw that first cannon...He would have easily defended his natural (with only one cannon). Off topic, but im rather curious what follow-up Bisu had if that had happened.. Im pretty sure as Pros, they have follow-up for most imaginable situations after the opening, and just won't go "oh fuck" should Wookie decided to have enough money to build a Forge. And yea, im pretty sure even if Wookie built a forge he would have been MEGA behind regardless. 400 + 100 + 150 + 150 (Nexus + Pylon + Forge + Canoon) = 800, and an Eternity of no mining. That's if he has the money in the first place. If he had placed down a Forge, Bisu would have simply not leap-frogging cannon but tech/eco up at home and roll him a few minutes later. @ George_the_man I think it should have been common knowledge by now that if u didn't manage to scout a cheese, you are pretty much screwed. 3-Gate-Goons and couldn't scout his DT-first? Dead. CC-first and didn't scout his Proxy Rax? Dead. PvP and didn't scout Cannon Rush? Well expect the same. It really isn't hard to walk your probie down the ledge another 2-3 seconds and check for any shenanigans. Not to mention you can block the ramp and prevent their probe from going down if you scouted it late (~time Forge completes).
It really isn`t 400+100+150+150=800. It`s more like 150 (forge)=150. He built his nexus anyway so you should not count that. He also had his pylon there anyway (for shield battery lol :D ). And he needs ONE cannon only in case bisu continues with his push. And even if you say that it`s 800 minerals,then count how many did Bisu spend + he had like 10 probes less than Wooki. So..I`m like 100% sure that with forge the game would become pretty much standard,even game.
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On January 08 2012 07:09 sviatoslavrichter wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 06:35 Kiett wrote:On January 08 2012 06:17 George_the_man wrote:
im cool , im just wondering what is the best tactic to protect vs that kind of cheese , cause canon rush in PvP on that maps works so good, like Wooki looked for for cheese but he didnt go low enough to see pylon , wasnt even close , and even if he did it would take so much time for probes to climb up on that hill that 1st cannon would prolly be warped anyway..? He should have scouted it, and then built his own forge. I feel bad for Wooki, but meh, you learn something every time you get cheesed so badly. If Bisu didnt do it this time, soneone would have eventually. The more you get cheesed, the more you learn to scout more carefully and have better crisis management. Rofl, fans like you are hilarious. If Bisu had gotten scouted you would have been whining about how disappointing of a game it was and how much Wooki is such an inferior player he has to cheese Bisu. But when Bisu cheeses you talk about how it's a good learning experience for Wooki? Seriously get over yourself. It's a game, cheese happens. If anything just be glad Bisu is finally learning from Flash, the best player to ever touch SC.
If there's any reason i ll ever hate Flash, it's guys like this. Holy shit,
If anything just be glad Bisu is finally learning from Flash, the best player to ever touch SC.
? It's almost as if BoXeR didn't exist, and Flash has a patent on cheesing every1 else is copying him.
Seriously get over yourselves. is best reserved for you.
And another silly thing is your "If -yada yada yada-, you guys would have acted moronically like we did too (paraphrased)". The only ones whining are you and some others who sport a Rolster icon. You are spoiling the name of people like Blind, Holgerius, etc, or even TwoToneTerran who while being biased, is not an idiot.
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On January 08 2012 07:17 Vuk_91 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2012 07:10 ffreakk wrote:On January 08 2012 06:49 Vuk_91 wrote:On January 08 2012 06:17 George_the_man wrote:
im cool , im just wondering what is the best tactic to protect vs that kind of cheese , cause canon rush in PvP on that maps works so good, like Wooki looked for for cheese but he didnt go low enough to see pylon , wasnt even close , and even if he did it would take so much time for probes to climb up on that hill that 1st cannon would prolly be warped anyway..? If that cheese was so good,then everyone would use it. And if Wooki built a forge as soon as he saw that first cannon...He would have easily defended his natural (with only one cannon). Off topic, but im rather curious what follow-up Bisu had if that had happened.. Im pretty sure as Pros, they have follow-up for most imaginable situations after the opening, and just won't go "oh fuck" should Wookie decided to have enough money to build a Forge. And yea, im pretty sure even if Wookie built a forge he would have been MEGA behind regardless. 400 + 100 + 150 + 150 (Nexus + Pylon + Forge + Canoon) = 800, and an Eternity of no mining. That's if he has the money in the first place. If he had placed down a Forge, Bisu would have simply not leap-frogging cannon but tech/eco up at home and roll him a few minutes later. @ George_the_man I think it should have been common knowledge by now that if u didn't manage to scout a cheese, you are pretty much screwed. 3-Gate-Goons and couldn't scout his DT-first? Dead. CC-first and didn't scout his Proxy Rax? Dead. PvP and didn't scout Cannon Rush? Well expect the same. It really isn't hard to walk your probie down the ledge another 2-3 seconds and check for any shenanigans. Not to mention you can block the ramp and prevent their probe from going down if you scouted it late (~time Forge completes). It really isn`t 400+100+150+150=800. It`s more like 150 (forge)=150. He built his nexus anyway so you should not count that. He also had his pylon there anyway (for shield battery lol :D ). And he needs ONE cannon only in case bisu continues with his push. And even if you say that it`s 800 minerals,then count how many did Bisu spend + he had like 10 probes less than Wooki. So..I`m like 100% sure that with forge the game would become pretty much standard,even game.
Oh no, i was not saying that he lost an extra 800. I meant it that he had to spend 800 by that time, all the while had no mining done (Nexus takes forever to warp in T_T), so he probably wouldn't have had the spare money (does he even have money for Forge + Pylon + Cannon? Took a while for his nat's Pylon to go up right?). Bisu's eco defnly took a hit from his early probe out, but i would imagine that his economic loss would have been much less severe than that of Wooki. Though i believe that it is merely our difference in estimating the variables
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EPT
