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On July 21 2011 02:13 Mumei wrote:
Gah. I just don't get what happened to Jaedong's ZvZ. He went 31 - 10 (75.61%) between January 2010 and August 2010. Then we start the new Proleague season in October and between then and March he went 21 - 8 (72.41%) - but between April and now he's gone 6 - 8. It's like his ZvZ performance just fell off a cliff.
It's so frustrating seeing him knocked out of individual leagues repeatedly by what used to be his best match-up.
He was just wayyy ahead of the curve in the matchup. 75.61% is nothing compared to the >80% career winrate he had for a while in JvZ. Eventually the other pros had to catch up. I think JD's TvZ has shown what matchup he's been focused on for a while now. And who can really blame him for it?
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On July 21 2011 02:13 Mumei wrote:
Gah. I just don't get what happened to Jaedong's ZvZ. He went 31 - 10 (75.61%) between January 2010 and August 2010. Then we start the new Proleague season in October and between then and March he went 21 - 8 (72.41%) - but between April and now he's gone 6 - 8. It's like his ZvZ performance just fell off a cliff.
It's so frustrating seeing him knocked out of individual leagues repeatedly by what used to be his best match-up.
It's always happened to the best of players: as you grow older, your skills just begin to diminish since everyone else becomes better and better.
For such a long time, JD has been incredibly consistent in his play. The longevity of his high caliber play could be compared to Nada's imo.
The rest of the zergs finally seem to be at a point where they might actually surpass him now. This is a testament of just how far ahead JD had been in ZvZ compared to the rest.
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Hyuk has JD's number. I dunno, but the guy is showing some confidence and stability in-game now. Go Hyuk!!!
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Bisutopia19391 Posts
The spoiler free results weren't updated  guess Ill just have to watch those games too. I was only waiting for the Hyuk game.
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That's Captain Hyuk for you, always an unknown.
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United States10569 Posts
Hellz yeah, all 4 lb points!!! Go hyuk!!!!
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On July 21 2011 02:05 revy wrote:
Anyone know when day 4 is? I trust it's tomorrow @ 19:30?
Friday 22nd 1930 KST. Why is Hyuk treated like this? Because of the way he looks? I think he is a decent player. He doesn't deserve this. Oh well, I think this is only among the foreign fans. I'm sure among Koreans and progamers he is nowhere as bad in reputation as foreigners make him out to be. A little respect guys.
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On July 21 2011 02:22 Pvvned wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 02:13 Mumei wrote:
Gah. I just don't get what happened to Jaedong's ZvZ. He went 31 - 10 (75.61%) between January 2010 and August 2010. Then we start the new Proleague season in October and between then and March he went 21 - 8 (72.41%) - but between April and now he's gone 6 - 8. It's like his ZvZ performance just fell off a cliff.
It's so frustrating seeing him knocked out of individual leagues repeatedly by what used to be his best match-up. It's always happened to the best of players: as you grow older, your skills just begin to diminish since everyone else becomes better and better. For such a long time, JD has been incredibly consistent in his play. The longevity of his high caliber play could be compared to Nada's imo. The rest of the zergs finally seem to be at a point where they might actually surpass him now. This is a testament of just how far ahead JD had been in ZvZ compared to the rest.
I know that. It's just that it seemed to almost happen overnight, and while he's also been having issues with his vP, it hasn't been nearly as problematic for him as his vZ as been (in terms of knocking him out of tournaments). He went from over 80% in 2010 in vP to 55% so far this year. He went from over 75% in vZ in 2010 to also 55%. It's just such a huge decline. But if this were simply about his skills declining relative to his competition, you'd expect him to be doing worse in all of his match-ups, and yet his vT looks better than it has in years.
Is his ZvZ doing worse because he is doing worse (e.g. making worse decisions or more micro mistakes than before) or is it doing worse because his competition is suddenly significantly better than they were a month or two prior?
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hyuk is pro man, but it's still hard to see jaedong go down..
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Someone once crunched the zvz numbers on the results of 9 pool / 12 pool / 12 hatch, and if my memory serves me well, you are far more likely to play a 9 pool and beat a 12 pool than to play a 12 pool and beat a 12 hatch.
Hyuk had an advantage and didn't screw up, as a Jaedong fan I'm not feeling too devastated.
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On July 21 2011 02:22 Pvvned wrote:
It's always happened to the best of players: as you grow older, your skills just begin to diminish since everyone else becomes better and better.
That's not consistent. Other people getting better does not cause Jaedong's skills to diminish. It is more likely that the relative strength changes as a result of others getting better. Or alternatively, that Jaedong is just getting worse at the matchup, due to practicing it less.
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On July 20 2011 16:15 LunarDestiny wrote:
Going to sleep, but
I have a dream
where someone will get hyuked.
wow lol.. this is awesome.
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Great games by Baby and Hydra, recommended. Loved Baby's eraser tactics.
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The Hyukking will be complete when he plays terribly against Modesty and loses to create a tiebreak scenario.
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On July 21 2011 03:50 Mumei wrote:
It's just that it seemed to almost happen overnight, and while he's also been having issues with his vP, it hasn't been nearly as problematic for him as his vZ as been (in terms of knocking him out of tournaments). He went from over 80% in 2010 in vP to 55% so far this year.
He has played 20 vP games this year, lost 9 and 3 of those 9 have been against Bisu. Coupled with a few losses in series (3 in total, bringing his losses up to 6/9), I wouldn't worry about his vP unless he's facing Bisu.
Really, the only games I'd say he shouldn't have lost were against Violet on Benzene (when JD tried to go for 2 base Hive for some reason, mostly because Ps were raping zergs at the time, iirc) and his recent loss against Horang2, which I'd chalk up to Horang2 playing a very unique style of vP which won't work twice. Not to mention that Horang2 is really fucking good too. The last loss out of the 9 was against Stork.
He's playing some stiff competition and still maintaining a winning ratio. Watch his games and tell me his ZvP is looking shaky. Series against Snow, arguably one of the best ZvP bo5s in history, series against Grape, completely one-sided, (the game on Monte Cristo didn't prove anything since the map is very P favoured, 2 player map with no easily defendable third), game against Jangbi, one of the best ZvPs this season.
tl;dr: You're looking at the stats too much. Look at the actual content as well.
ZvZ though, bad luck? Lack of practice? Lack of confidence after losing to Hydra? He'll bounce back when he wins a BO5 against a zerg, which statistically should happen in this month or the next.
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On July 21 2011 04:54 kuroshiroi wrote:tl;dr: You're looking at the stats too much. Look at the actual content as well.
ZvZ though, bad luck? Lack of practice? Lack of confidence after losing to Hydra? He'll bounce back when he wins a BO5 against a zerg, which statistically should happen in this month or the next.
You're right. I'm not as worried about his vP for those reasons
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OMG Build order loss for Jaedong. Makes me wonder how anyone could ever be at 80%. I guess back then, people actually sucked at ZvZ. Now, people can just push a bo win into a win.
Bo5 against snow: Jaedong never pulled drones to avoid storm drop, tried to brute force across bridges against reavers, careless mistakes.
Against horang2: traded 2 bases for some mining time.
Against jangbi: jangbi made no reavers, all archons so ofc lurkers will win.
His ZvT has been great, ZvP has been shaky, and ZvZ has been slightly better than average.
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Russian Federation3632 Posts
Hyuk is Ro16 king~
He can only be killed by Fantasy.
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On July 21 2011 02:13 Mumei wrote:
Gah. I just don't get what happened to Jaedong's ZvZ. He went 31 - 10 (75.61%) between January 2010 and August 2010. Then we start the new Proleague season in October and between then and March he went 21 - 8 (72.41%) - but between April and now he's gone 6 - 8. It's like his ZvZ performance just fell off a cliff.
It's so frustrating seeing him knocked out of individual leagues repeatedly by what used to be his best match-up.
Wait what he's not knocked out yet is he?
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EPT
