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Way to ban dedicated people because an illiterate guy can't read the OP. Should have delayed the ban a couple of days 
If you are worried about which ID you should use, PM LRM)Game at account LRM)Gayme on iccup.com. If you feel that not smurfing gives you an unfair disadvantage, you must appeal to LRM)Game at account LRM)Gayme on iccup.com.
Smurfing and changing country flags was allowed in the TSL too if you had a good reason and noticed an admin beforehand.
On February 26 2011 23:38 LuckyFool wrote:lol joekim smurfed the entire time and game is now banned on TL as the ladder stage finishes? nice...real nice guys.... setting such a fine example here! 
He had a good reason to smurf since he is a member of the counter abuse team.
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On February 27 2011 00:54 GoTuNk! wrote:
we can still send pm's trough Iccup you know
or through the iccup team page, more likely imo.
I think that ban was deserved. Not that it makes anything about the current situation better, but just because youre organizing something big doesnt mean an "I dont have to explain anything, obviously im running shit perfectly so just go with it" additude is necessary. If game had been a bit less of an asshole in his responses that wouldnt have happened
I also agree with oovv and playa, I see no reason why joekim, or anyone else should get special treatment.
Game still has my respect for all hes done for this tournament though, I just disagree with some of his methods..
edit: how does being a member of the counter abuse team give you a disadvantage while laddering??
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On February 27 2011 04:38 FyRe_DragOn wrote:
edit: how does being a member of the counter abuse team give you a disadvantage while laddering??
Because some people will dodge you or start to make accusations when they lose.
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accusations of what? Im still not seeing the connection here between counter abuse team and disadvantages while laddering. "you only won because you catch cheaters"?? that doesnt make any sense, and doesnt affect his ability to rank up no matter what the accusation is anyway.
I mean, sure people who know hes on the counter abuse team will obviously try not to bm or disc hack or shit like that vs him if they otherwise normally would, because they know theyd get banned asap. That seems like an advantage to me though, having opponents who dont waste your time and force you to make complaints.
as for being dodged, that has to do with skill, not a position on the counter abuse team. If I was to dodge joekim, id be thinking more along the lines of "oh shit i think that guy is pretty good, and ive also heard he hacked a long time ago or something like that..maybe I shouldnt play him". Notice how the fact that hes on the counter abuse team was not included in there.
So, the only reasons I can see that joekim would get dodged are because of his reputation as A) a good player, and B) a former abuser. A) applies to pretty much all legit ISL contestants, so that doesnt give joekim any special status. B) is the only logical conclusion here.
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Why people would dodge a "fomer abuser" ?
I think that abusers are usually less skilled than people who really deserve their rank.
Your "logical conclusion" doesn't seem really logical.
Oh and when i said "accusations" i mean random drama like now. "Omg Joekim is playing the tourney and on the counter abuse team", "Omg that's not fair" "Omg why" etc...
I guess he just didn't want to be constantly harassed by people.
Ideally he shouldn't have played this tourney or resign from the counter abuse team but eh maybe he wanted to help Game and play at the same time.
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the only drama happening now is people questioning why he actually deserved special treatment. No one except you mentioned the fact that he was on the counter abuse team. In fact I recall someone stating that he wondered why joekim was not actually competing, until being informed that he was in fact smurfing.
Again, there is no link between being on the counter abuse team and problems with laddering that I can see lol. "omg joekim is playing the tourney and on the counter abuse team" SO?? what could that possibly change in regards to his ability to ladder?
Generally people dont dodge a former abuser, unless they suspect that hes still abusing. So B) is still a pretty weak reason to deserve a smurf.
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He was allowed to smurf. Okay...So why are you talking about this again? Why is it a big deal he smurfed? Let him smurf.... Plain and simple
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On February 27 2011 05:43 FyRe_DragOn wrote:
the only drama happening now is people questioning why he actually deserved special treatment. No one except you mentioned the fact that he was on the counter abuse team. In fact I recall someone stating that he wondered why joekim was not actually competing, until being informed that he was in fact smurfing.
Again, there is no link between being on the counter abuse team and problems with laddering that I can see lol. "omg joekim is playing the tourney and on the counter abuse team" SO?? what could that possibly change in regards to his ability to ladder?
Generally people dont dodge a former abuser, unless they suspect that hes still abusing. So B) is still a pretty weak reason to deserve a smurf.
Oh well read this thread, there are some good posts regarding this issue:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=69605
On April 16 2008 09:14 MYM.ClouD wrote:
When I first read TSL rules there was written that no one would have been allowed to use smurf nicknames. Actually I think there's quite a few smurfs playing on TSL and some of them are also high ranked. Is anyone going to do anything about this?
On April 17 2008 03:33 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2008 01:43 Hot_Bid wrote:
Everyone has the option of smurfing or not, so I don't see how it's unfair. Well, let's look at it from a logical perspective. 1) The condition for having a smurf is that it must be approved (means that a player should need/have a very valid reason for smurfing). 2) All the very top players (Mondragon, Draco, Testie) and really famous players too such as Nazgul, Eriador, and practically everyone, are using their real ID's. 3) Therefore, if all the top players are using their real ID's, and you can justifiably make the argument that every single player considered a "top player" can be found not smurfing the ladder, who could possibly have a valid reason to smurf ? 4) I would then conclude that because all the top players are using their real ID's, there really can't be a valid reason for anybody to use a smurf account. Then, you can look at why most top players smurf on ladders in the first place. 1) Their reputation might make it hard to get games, 2) they want to game without being distracted by people messaging them. (I believe these are the two most likely reasons). SO; since these are the reasons people smurf ladders, and it's already been established that anyone who would be significantly hampered by the above mentioned 1) and 2) are NOT smurfing... there really is no reason for ANYBODY to smurf on this ladder (or have valid reasons). The ONLY exception I can really think of that justifies a smurf is 1) Someone with a bad reputation of hacking / cheating, trying to play the ladder to redeem their name/play in peace. However, can you think of anyone that fits under this category? Mistrzzz and Haypro aren't smurfing and theyre the only names I could think of. Overall conclusion: I can't fathom anybody having a valid reason to smurf this ladder other than the top players (who aren't smurfing anyways).
On April 17 2008 08:54 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2008 07:35 Xeris wrote:
I'm just pointing out the fact that if the top players (who you would think have a legitimate desire to smurf) arent smurfing, why would anyone else have valid reasons?
anyways, I dont really care !_!~ You are all arguing an illogical position. The decisions of one gamer have no bearing on the decisions of another. If Mondragon doesn't smurf, there is no relationship between the reasoning for another gamer who does. People do not have to base their decisions on the behaviour of others. Instead, they base their decisions on the rules of the environment under which they exist. I want to wear a seatbelt. The law says I don't have to wear a seatbelt, but if I choose to do so and my car is equipped with one I can. The best driver and most well known driver in the world doesn't wear one. What is my reasoning? + Show Spoiler [answer] +It doesn't matter. It is my own choice.
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On February 27 2011 05:43 isl-time wrote:
He was allowed to smurf. Okay...So why are you talking about this again? Why is it a big deal he smurfed? Let him smurf.... Plain and simple
Because then everyone else in ISL should also be allowed to smurf.
Joekim seems to have been given an unfair advantage, since he knows other people's playstyles but nobody knows who he is. People are just waiting for a straight answer as to why he was allowed and no one else is. For now, it just seems that Joekim was allowed because him and game are best buddies.
also its a shame this tournament is being run by an arrogant asshole (game). I kinda feel bad for the sponsers. Anyway, I guess we'll have to wait a week before we know anything.
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On February 27 2011 05:33 Boblion wrote:
Why people would dodge a "fomer abuser" ?
I think that abusers are usually less skilled than people who really deserve their rank.
Your "logical conclusion" doesn't seem really logical.
Oh and when i said "accusations" i mean random drama like now. "Omg Joekim is playing the tourney and on the counter abuse team", "Omg that's not fair" "Omg why" etc...
I guess he just didn't want to be constantly harassed by people.
Ideally he shouldn't have played this tourney or resign from the counter abuse team but eh maybe he wanted to help Game and play at the same time.
your logic is very strange
nobody would go "omg joekim is playing the tourney and on the counter abuse team" "Omg thats not fair"
and i would think it very unlikely for people to have harassed him
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On February 27 2011 05:54 Assault_1 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 05:43 isl-time wrote:
He was allowed to smurf. Okay...So why are you talking about this again? Why is it a big deal he smurfed? Let him smurf.... Plain and simple Because then everyone else in ISL should also be allowed to smurf. Joekim seems to have been given an unfair advantage, since he knows other people's playstyles but nobody knows who he is. People are just waiting for a straight answer as to why he was allowed and no one else is. For now, it just seems that Joekim was allowed because him and game are best buddies. also its a shame this tournament is being run by an arrogant asshole (game). I kinda feel bad for the sponsers. Anyway, I guess we'll have to wait a week before we know anything.
Well guess what, im friends with joe/game too. I didn't know he was smurfing. I played him, I lost and won. He knows my playing style. And unfortunetly, Joe is too damn stupid to know EVERYONES playing style. You need to get over it real quick. He smurfed, he had a reason, end of discussion.
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No smurf accounts. Your account must be played with your known ID in it. If you are found out to be smurfing, you will be disqualified and no further participation in the tournament will be allowed. If you are worried about which ID you should use, PM LRM)Game at account LRM)Gayme on iccup.com. If you feel that not smurfing gives you an unfair disadvantage, you must appeal to LRM)Game at account LRM)Gayme on iccup.com. We will then give you a predetermined smurf name. Failure to comply will lead to disqualification.
This is the rule regarding the situation.
As far as I know there was no violation of the rule. The rule says if one is worried that he/she will suffer a disadvantage using their known name they must appeal to game and a predetermined name will be given.
What we can assume here is that Joekim felt that he would be disadvantaged somehow if he played on an account called ISL.Joekim or something. Although i can make a guess what his argument was but to me this smurfing was probably allowed not because he was a friend of Game but his argument regarding the disadvantage was reasonable to GAme
What "oow" should have asked was "WHat was Joekim's disadvantage he was concerned about?" or like "What argument did he appeal to GAme to have been granted a smurf", in order to have avoided this online argument
Oh and rules don't say that the community will be told of the reasons put forward by the "smurf-requesters" so they aren't obliged to disclose the reason why joekim was allowed to smurf.
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I think game is trying his hardest, but he doesn't have the right personality to be hosting an event like this.......
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My guess is that Joekim was worried about people dodging him if he picked random
I would have dodged playing against a random
not to mention many of the players who have played him before comment that he is a cheeser
RAndom + cheeser = very difficult to play against and very annoying, so many dodging could have taken place
so if this was why he thought he would have been disadvantaged then i think it's reasonable, although i personally would have dodged a random anyways
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u will have to play vs his random if u vs him in group stages, may aswell get some practice:D
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Anyway i just hope that Game will be able to run the tourney fine. I appreciate his work and i think he should just avoid to use insults when he is dealing with annoying people.
I wish him good luck and can't wait for the casting / replays !
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On February 27 2011 06:19 MACHIDA wrote:
u will have to play vs his random if u vs him in group stages, may aswell get some practice:D
it's impossible to practice vs a random cheeser
you can't practice rock scissor paper
playing a random cheeser is very much luck based
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On February 27 2011 06:29 NrG.GoD- wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2011 06:19 MACHIDA wrote:
u will have to play vs his random if u vs him in group stages, may aswell get some practice:D it's impossible to practice vs a random cheeser you can't practice rock scissor paper playing a random cheeser is very much luck based
,the funny thing,i hate jokerkim,and this kid isl.southpark or southnoob bm me ALOOOT,he is lucky for that smurf,also not only me,bm my friends too,for this reason i ban when u pick random noob
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LMAO! Reading this crap is hilarious, why are you guys arguing over something so dumb? A USER ID DOES NOT GIVE YOU ANY ADVANTAGE/DISADVANTAGE - LMAO! It's silly to even need another id in the first place, but if you're playing in a tournament I don't see how a user id affects your game-play in a strategy game, you will still need to play well and counter what they are doing...
Anyway, I was trying to watch some games I thought this tournament already started, where are the vods and where can I find out what's coming up next? Since the organizer is banned will it be on gg.net or something?
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EPT
