EPT[SWL] KT Rolster vs. STX SouL - Page 43
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crazeh
91 Posts
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Navi
5286 Posts
On January 24 2011 09:03 crazeh wrote: Bogus' strategy was pathetic. He GIFTED the game to flash. flash started the game with a huge BO advantage (rax after supply instead of bogus' 8rax 10supply) but otherwise their intentions (proxy-ish rax for early pressure) were similar. After bogus saw that flash had said lead (which is worth several scvs and a couple hundred of minerals in early mining time), he didn't have very many options, the only ones really available being what he did (cheese like fuck), go 2fac mines (with the facs probably being proxy anyway) and contain and eventually hope for a good daebak when flash inevitably pushed out (unlikely vs flash), or go for a contain with a bunker and take his nat asap foregoing production (or possibly even his first factory) in order to get it up to offset the economic advantage. against these three options, flash did what he did against the first, the second would probably had led to a more boring faceroll by flash, and the third may have worked because they were cross position but i don't know exactly how many minerals/gas bogus had at the time. in the end, it was a fun game and well played by both players imo. i think this really was a BO loss (with the 2 marines made by flash that picked off the scv sealing the game completely). | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/korean/games/44629_Flash_vs_fOrGG/vod Oh boy, that Vult snipe was so pimp. XD Kid seems uncheesable sometimes. :D | ||
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SkelA
Macedonia13092 Posts
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SuperJongMan
Jamaica11586 Posts
And no, clueless guy, Bogus was nowhere near even if he just went 2 fact. He double scv scouted, earlier raxed, and popped an extra marne... it's...a huge setback to play straight up from there to matching builds. | ||
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XXGeneration
United States625 Posts
On January 23 2011 15:03 ShadeR wrote: I reckon Bogus will force Flash too come out in the 7th set =]. QFT. | ||
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Moridin
Bulgaria167 Posts
On January 24 2011 09:03 crazeh wrote: Bogus' strategy was pathetic. He GIFTED the game to flash. flash started the game with a huge BO advantage (rax after supply instead of bogus' 8rax 10supply) but otherwise their intentions (proxy-ish rax for early pressure) were similar. After bogus saw that flash had said lead (which is worth several scvs and a couple hundred of minerals in early mining time), he didn't have very many options, the only ones really available being what he did (cheese like fuck), go 2fac mines (with the facs probably being proxy anyway) and contain and eventually hope for a good daebak when flash inevitably pushed out (unlikely vs flash), or go for a contain with a bunker and take his nat asap foregoing production (or possibly even his first factory) in order to get it up to offset the economic advantage. against these three options, flash did what he did against the first, the second would probably had led to a more boring faceroll by flash, and the third may have worked because they were cross position but i don't know exactly how many minerals/gas bogus had at the time. in the end, it was a fun game and well played by both players imo. i think this really was a BO loss (with the 2 marines made by flash that picked off the scv sealing the game completely). Just to say that if they weren't cross positions there was a high chance Bogus kills the scv building Flash's barracks and from there it's pretty much GG. So if luck wasn't on Flash side it was BO win for Bogus | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On January 24 2011 03:36 Xiphos wrote: Wasn't anything impressive from Flash, it was more Bogus's blunder. He was being WAYY too tech heavy. I mean what was his build? Tank with Wraith? Plus when Flash scouted it, he should've cancelled the Starport and just made straight vultures from the factory instead of going into tanks. Flash produced 2 marines just in time and moved them to the proxy starport just in time to kill the SCV. If he didn't have this starsense bogus would have been able to complete the structure. It was much more impressive starsense than it was a blunder. Making a proxy isn't a blunder if someone scouts it due to starsense. Bogus decision after his starport was not perfect though I admit, he should probably have cancelled it right away. However Flash's awesome move put Bogus in serious trouble, it wasn't that he proxied that put in him that trouble. On January 24 2011 09:03 crazeh wrote: Bogus' strategy was pathetic. He GIFTED the game to flash. I'm pretty sure it worked in practice. Why can't you give Flash some credit for his sniping of the SCV, that was obviously a good move. Otherwise you can say that proxy is always bad, pathetic and results in handing a win to your opponent which simply isn't true. | ||
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L0thar
987 Posts
On January 24 2011 20:11 StylishVODs wrote: Flash produced 2 marines just in time and moved them to the proxy starport just in time to kill the SCV. If he didn't have this starsense bogus would have been able to complete the structure. It was much more impressive starsense than it was a blunder. Making a proxy isn't a blunder if someone scouts it due to starsense. Bogus decision after his starport was not perfect though I admit, he should probably have cancelled it right away. However Flash's awesome move put Bogus in serious trouble, it wasn't that he proxied that put in him that trouble. I'm pretty sure it worked in practice. Why can't you give Flash some credit for his sniping of the SCV, that was obviously a good move. Otherwise you can say that proxy is always bad, pathetic and results in handing a win to your opponent which simply isn't true. Yep, it's easy to dismiss all the amazing moves pulled by Flash. It reminds me of this gem a little: TheMarine, after being so amazed by Mind's brilliant strategy, asked Mind's Coach. "What was the winning pertage with this FE counter build?" Mind's coach said gravely looking into TheMarine. "100% winning percentage. During the practice, Mind never lost. At least if the opponent was playing against this Build order for the first time...10 out of 10, they all lost to it." But THAT move was the game stopper. + Show Spoiler + On October 16 2008 03:48 FConnectionUK wrote: You're right. Also let's not forget Mind's strategy did not stop there. There was one more part to the whole grandios which was the tank drop right after the cloaked wraiths + the bunker. But let's go over Mind's insane strategy from the start: The whole plan starts as soon as Flash scouts Mind's base. Mind's ramp has one vulture. The first mind game starts right here. By showing only one vulture as Flash's late scout goes up the ramp, this implies this: Mind has add-on attached to his first factory. Thus, Flash can safely assume no vulture raid in the beginning. Edit: (If he showed a second vulture. Flash would've built a bunker in the front which would give away everything. Mind's really saying here "Don't build a bunker" and worked) The next part is the subtitled part. The unexpected vulture raid happens from the very start. The vultures plant the mines and take the damage. At this time, Flash can only assume that Mind is going for the natural exp. Which then again is only part of Mind's plan. Mind wants all Flash's defense at the exp. And this is the part where we can SAFELY assume this whole picture was in Mind's plan. This build has been carefully planned to the very second. VOD does not show it, however in the replay, by stop producing the SCV's, Mind PERFECTED the timing of mine research upgrade. Upgrade was finished by the time the dropship was loading up the vultures. Then what next? Exactly what meathook said. He plans mines everywhere so Flash is forced to use scans. And here comes the cloaked wraiths. Genius. But it does not end here. Using the map where having the upper ledge means everything Mind tries to get tanks on the ledge. Only if he built a bunker fast enough... now THIS strategy like I mentioned before. If facing it for the very first time, 10 out of 10 times, you'd lose. Flash is just an exception. p.s Like i said, I was too lazy to translate the whole analysis I bet half the people here would say "Stupid strategy by Mind, Flash got handled the win" lol. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
On January 24 2011 21:22 Holgerius wrote: That clip makes you wonder how many moves of similar nature Flash pulls off that we don't really notice or think of. Not only Flash, I'm pretty sure I miss a lot of what even "average" player are thinking. Just watched the whole game by the way, very nice TvT. Mind's harass is insane, and Flash defense is very good. | ||
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Moridin
Bulgaria167 Posts
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Spica
United States5582 Posts
On January 24 2011 23:58 Moridin wrote: Any chance for an interview translation? 90% done. Hold your horses, man. | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
Sweet, thanks!  | ||
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Heimatloser
Germany1494 Posts
lots of stuff happened, awesome matches, and then came flash | ||
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Spica
United States5582 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=187265 | ||
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KTF_CloaK
Netherlands1338 Posts
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