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On January 12 2011 16:13 Slow Motion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2011 16:08 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:On January 12 2011 16:03 Assymptotic wrote:On January 12 2011 15:58 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:On January 12 2011 15:44 DarkMatter_ wrote:
Jaedong's ZvP is getting stagnant and boring. Good enough to roll most protosses but too predictable to work against S-class players like Bisu and Stork.
Remember the Jaedong that went 1 hatch lurker against one of the dragons, got scouted and still won anyway? And he did this when he was 0-1 in a Bo3.
Jaedong's ZvP is best when he's aggressive, especially against Bisu and Stork. Hopefully, he's got something better prepared for the MSL. I miss JD's aggressive ZvP. Those games were so beautiful to watch. It may be just me, but I don't feel the same spark of genius and ability to adapt now that I felt in JD's games during his ZvP streak. I'm not sure why he's doing these passive greedy builds. Am I the only one who thinks he needs to go rediscover his ZvP, like he did with his ZvT? Jaedong's only losses to Protoss this season come from Bisu and Stork, and I think one stray game off of Kal last OSL (which was from a Bo5 where he went 3-1). I wouldn't go as far to say he needs to 'rediscover' his ZvP. Okay, "rediscover" is probably too strong a word, but the way he lost vs Stork and Bisu make me think there's something missing in his play when he plays against the top PvZers, i.e. the Protoss who aren't completely scared of him. Well we can't know if it's just JD's PvZ in general or he hasn't worked out his timings on that map yet. Maybe he needs to rely less on the sim city and try to get those lurkers out a little faster. The way that map is built sort of seduces you to take the fast fourth cause you think you can defend the choke, but we see what happens. Either way JD's PvZ will be put to the test in MSL soon enough and we will see.
MSL.....oh yeah that's tomorrow. Crap. I'm worried as hell.....
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On January 12 2011 16:51 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2011 16:13 Slow Motion wrote:On January 12 2011 16:08 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:On January 12 2011 16:03 Assymptotic wrote:On January 12 2011 15:58 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:On January 12 2011 15:44 DarkMatter_ wrote:
Jaedong's ZvP is getting stagnant and boring. Good enough to roll most protosses but too predictable to work against S-class players like Bisu and Stork.
Remember the Jaedong that went 1 hatch lurker against one of the dragons, got scouted and still won anyway? And he did this when he was 0-1 in a Bo3.
Jaedong's ZvP is best when he's aggressive, especially against Bisu and Stork. Hopefully, he's got something better prepared for the MSL. I miss JD's aggressive ZvP. Those games were so beautiful to watch. It may be just me, but I don't feel the same spark of genius and ability to adapt now that I felt in JD's games during his ZvP streak. I'm not sure why he's doing these passive greedy builds. Am I the only one who thinks he needs to go rediscover his ZvP, like he did with his ZvT? Jaedong's only losses to Protoss this season come from Bisu and Stork, and I think one stray game off of Kal last OSL (which was from a Bo5 where he went 3-1). I wouldn't go as far to say he needs to 'rediscover' his ZvP. Okay, "rediscover" is probably too strong a word, but the way he lost vs Stork and Bisu make me think there's something missing in his play when he plays against the top PvZers, i.e. the Protoss who aren't completely scared of him. Well we can't know if it's just JD's PvZ in general or he hasn't worked out his timings on that map yet. Maybe he needs to rely less on the sim city and try to get those lurkers out a little faster. The way that map is built sort of seduces you to take the fast fourth cause you think you can defend the choke, but we see what happens. Either way JD's PvZ will be put to the test in MSL soon enough and we will see. MSL.....oh yeah that's tomorrow. Crap. I'm worried as hell.....
Unless Midas cheeses, he is very likely going to join Leta and Stats as Jaedong's punching bag.
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On January 12 2011 16:08 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2011 16:03 Assymptotic wrote:On January 12 2011 15:58 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:On January 12 2011 15:44 DarkMatter_ wrote:
Jaedong's ZvP is getting stagnant and boring. Good enough to roll most protosses but too predictable to work against S-class players like Bisu and Stork.
Remember the Jaedong that went 1 hatch lurker against one of the dragons, got scouted and still won anyway? And he did this when he was 0-1 in a Bo3.
Jaedong's ZvP is best when he's aggressive, especially against Bisu and Stork. Hopefully, he's got something better prepared for the MSL. I miss JD's aggressive ZvP. Those games were so beautiful to watch. It may be just me, but I don't feel the same spark of genius and ability to adapt now that I felt in JD's games during his ZvP streak. I'm not sure why he's doing these passive greedy builds. Am I the only one who thinks he needs to go rediscover his ZvP, like he did with his ZvT? Jaedong's only losses to Protoss this season come from Bisu and Stork, and I think one stray game off of Kal last OSL (which was from a Bo5 where he went 3-1). I wouldn't go as far to say he needs to 'rediscover' his ZvP. Okay, "rediscover" is probably too strong a word, but the way he lost vs Stork and Bisu make me think there's something missing in his play when he plays against the top PvZers, i.e. the Protoss who aren't completely scared of him.
Anytime you get caught at a perfect timing (with your pants down) you always look like a baddie.
Lifetime:
Jaedong vs Stork 12-13
Jaedong vs Bisu 7-9
Jaedong vs Free 10-8
Jaedong vs Kal 15-4
Jaedong vs Best 5-2
Jaedong vs Jangbi 10-1
Jaedong vs Stats 7-0
I think that's pretty telling of Jaedong's ability vs any protoss. The very top Protoss can go even with him, but people even just a small step down get dominated.
Flash vs X
+ Show Spoiler +
vs Jaedong 23-20
vs Bisu 13-9
vs Stork 11-11
vs Kal 8-3
vs Best 5-4
vs Jangbi 2-2
vs Free 13-4
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after viewing his matches against bisu and stork it's clear that Jaedong's ZvP is currently pathetic.
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STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORK
FUCK YEEAAA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BEST MORNING EVER !
TAKE THAT HATERS, HE CAN ZVP
I'VE GOT TO SEE THEM ASAP
+ Show Spoiler +It's good for my fpl too =)
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On January 12 2011 18:08 crazeh wrote:
after viewing his matches against bisu and stork it's clear that Jaedong's ZvP is currently pathetic.
Just wait till you see him play a zvp against someone who is not stork or bisu, he'll crush them.
He is like 41 - 1 in zvp if you exclude his games against stork and bisu since like 6/19/09. The one loss came from kal, which didn't matter because it was a bo3.
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Stork you are honestly the sexiest man I know. Congrats on the wins!
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It is so disappointing that Oz can only send out either a toss or a zerg that can take off games.
Who needs jaedong when you have baxterrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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On January 12 2011 18:23 MuffinDude wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2011 18:08 crazeh wrote:
after viewing his matches against bisu and stork it's clear that Jaedong's ZvP is currently pathetic. Just wait till you see him play a zvp against someone who is not stork or bisu, he'll crush them. He is like 41 - 1 in zvp if you exclude his games against stork and bisu since like 6/19/09. The one loss came from kal, which didn't matter because it was a bo3.
That's pretty ridiculous.
I know from the LR thread it seemed like Jaedong just failed. But it's really deeper than that. Someone on the Chinese board explained exactly why Jaedong lost, which I found very good analysis.
1. Huge distances between the two mains. And Stork obviously knows the map and understand the weakness in Jaedong's build order.
2. When Stork got his observer, he cleared all the burrowed lings around his base.
3. Stork showed that he was trying to get a 3rd. This was further "confirmed", from Jaedong's point of view, by Stork's attempt to drop a DT in his 4th. One that Jaedong foiled.
4. Jaedong had no lings for scouting. Nor could he place his overlords in proper scouting positions given Stork's air superiority.
5. Jaedong therefore guess, very very wrongly, that Stork was not going to attack and was choosing to harass. He therefore made mutas, which are very good for harass and almost useless for defense.
In essence, Jaedong's fatal mistake was not enough scouting, and instead simply made an educated guess at Stork's intentions. The end result was Stork crashing into Jaedong's 3rd with a protoss ball against very little defense, and rape ensued.
IMO, a lesser protoss would not have taken care of the details like Stork. They might just go normal and take a 3rd while trying to harass. They might have their build get scouted. Heck, they also might not have gone tech heavy and gotten templars/reavers before even adding gateways. Jaedong's build was likely solid against most the protosses. The reason he lost was because Stork(with practice and no WoW/anime/cellphone games) is not just any protoss.
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On January 12 2011 15:44 DarkMatter_ wrote:
Remember the Jaedong that went 1 hatch lurker against one of the dragons, got scouted and still won anyway? And he did this when he was 0-1 in a Bo3.
what game is that ? o_o
i would like to see it
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Stork better prepare well for a rape in MSL, cause JD's revenge will ruthless
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On January 12 2011 17:28 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2011 16:08 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:On January 12 2011 16:03 Assymptotic wrote:On January 12 2011 15:58 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:On January 12 2011 15:44 DarkMatter_ wrote:
Jaedong's ZvP is getting stagnant and boring. Good enough to roll most protosses but too predictable to work against S-class players like Bisu and Stork.
Remember the Jaedong that went 1 hatch lurker against one of the dragons, got scouted and still won anyway? And he did this when he was 0-1 in a Bo3.
Jaedong's ZvP is best when he's aggressive, especially against Bisu and Stork. Hopefully, he's got something better prepared for the MSL. I miss JD's aggressive ZvP. Those games were so beautiful to watch. It may be just me, but I don't feel the same spark of genius and ability to adapt now that I felt in JD's games during his ZvP streak. I'm not sure why he's doing these passive greedy builds. Am I the only one who thinks he needs to go rediscover his ZvP, like he did with his ZvT? Jaedong's only losses to Protoss this season come from Bisu and Stork, and I think one stray game off of Kal last OSL (which was from a Bo5 where he went 3-1). I wouldn't go as far to say he needs to 'rediscover' his ZvP. Okay, "rediscover" is probably too strong a word, but the way he lost vs Stork and Bisu make me think there's something missing in his play when he plays against the top PvZers, i.e. the Protoss who aren't completely scared of him. Anytime you get caught at a perfect timing (with your pants down) you always look like a baddie. Lifetime: Jaedong vs Stork 12-13 Jaedong vs Bisu 7-9 Jaedong vs Free 10-8 Jaedong vs Kal 15-4 Jaedong vs Best 5-2 Jaedong vs Jangbi 10-1 Jaedong vs Stats 7-0 I think that's pretty telling of Jaedong's ability vs any protoss. The very top Protoss can go even with him, but people even just a small step down get dominated. Flash vs X + Show Spoiler +
vs Jaedong 23-20
vs Bisu 13-9
vs Stork 11-11
vs Kal 8-3
vs Best 5-4
vs Jangbi 2-2
vs Free 13-4
thanks! that is a good piece of stats, we can all see, that Stork vs Flash/JD stats is the best. If only his ratio vs others was as good.
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chit I'm sad, damn it, JD, WHYYYYYY???
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On January 12 2011 21:15 letian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2011 17:28 Craton wrote:On January 12 2011 16:08 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:On January 12 2011 16:03 Assymptotic wrote:On January 12 2011 15:58 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:On January 12 2011 15:44 DarkMatter_ wrote:
Jaedong's ZvP is getting stagnant and boring. Good enough to roll most protosses but too predictable to work against S-class players like Bisu and Stork.
Remember the Jaedong that went 1 hatch lurker against one of the dragons, got scouted and still won anyway? And he did this when he was 0-1 in a Bo3.
Jaedong's ZvP is best when he's aggressive, especially against Bisu and Stork. Hopefully, he's got something better prepared for the MSL. I miss JD's aggressive ZvP. Those games were so beautiful to watch. It may be just me, but I don't feel the same spark of genius and ability to adapt now that I felt in JD's games during his ZvP streak. I'm not sure why he's doing these passive greedy builds. Am I the only one who thinks he needs to go rediscover his ZvP, like he did with his ZvT? Jaedong's only losses to Protoss this season come from Bisu and Stork, and I think one stray game off of Kal last OSL (which was from a Bo5 where he went 3-1). I wouldn't go as far to say he needs to 'rediscover' his ZvP. Okay, "rediscover" is probably too strong a word, but the way he lost vs Stork and Bisu make me think there's something missing in his play when he plays against the top PvZers, i.e. the Protoss who aren't completely scared of him. Anytime you get caught at a perfect timing (with your pants down) you always look like a baddie. Lifetime: Jaedong vs Stork 12-13 Jaedong vs Bisu 7-9 Jaedong vs Free 10-8 Jaedong vs Kal 15-4 Jaedong vs Best 5-2 Jaedong vs Jangbi 10-1 Jaedong vs Stats 7-0 I think that's pretty telling of Jaedong's ability vs any protoss. The very top Protoss can go even with him, but people even just a small step down get dominated. Flash vs X + Show Spoiler +
vs Jaedong 23-20
vs Bisu 13-9
vs Stork 11-11
vs Kal 8-3
vs Best 5-4
vs Jangbi 2-2
vs Free 13-4
thanks! that is a good piece of stats, we can all see, that Stork vs Flash/JD stats is the best. If only his ratio vs others was as good.
Stork's ability to play Jaedong consistently well over the years is one of the more remarkable things about him, especially when you consider how erratic his PvZ has been historically. Only in the past year or so did he even really reach the level where you can feel like he's a comfortable favorite against a mediocre Zerg that he's way better than. I actually think he's gonna crush Modesty, when 2+ years ago that would have been one of those potentially a nightmare matchups for him.
On the other hand, Stork vs Flash lifetime record is one of the most misleading ones out there. Stork went 5-0 against Flash in their first five games (in Flash's first two Starleague seasons as a pro) and since then Flash has consistently owned him. Yeah Stork has a few wins here and there but I can't even remember the last time Stork beat Flash on a map that wasn't great for PvT.
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On January 12 2011 20:49 lastmotion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2011 15:44 DarkMatter_ wrote:
Remember the Jaedong that went 1 hatch lurker against one of the dragons, got scouted and still won anyway? And he did this when he was 0-1 in a Bo3.
what game is that ? o_o i would like to see it
Jaedong vs. Free Set 2 of the ClubDay MSL Ro16.
VOD
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On January 12 2011 17:28 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2011 16:08 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:On January 12 2011 16:03 Assymptotic wrote:On January 12 2011 15:58 e_i_pi_1_0 wrote:On January 12 2011 15:44 DarkMatter_ wrote:
Jaedong's ZvP is getting stagnant and boring. Good enough to roll most protosses but too predictable to work against S-class players like Bisu and Stork.
Remember the Jaedong that went 1 hatch lurker against one of the dragons, got scouted and still won anyway? And he did this when he was 0-1 in a Bo3.
Jaedong's ZvP is best when he's aggressive, especially against Bisu and Stork. Hopefully, he's got something better prepared for the MSL. I miss JD's aggressive ZvP. Those games were so beautiful to watch. It may be just me, but I don't feel the same spark of genius and ability to adapt now that I felt in JD's games during his ZvP streak. I'm not sure why he's doing these passive greedy builds. Am I the only one who thinks he needs to go rediscover his ZvP, like he did with his ZvT? Jaedong's only losses to Protoss this season come from Bisu and Stork, and I think one stray game off of Kal last OSL (which was from a Bo5 where he went 3-1). I wouldn't go as far to say he needs to 'rediscover' his ZvP. Okay, "rediscover" is probably too strong a word, but the way he lost vs Stork and Bisu make me think there's something missing in his play when he plays against the top PvZers, i.e. the Protoss who aren't completely scared of him. Anytime you get caught at a perfect timing (with your pants down) you always look like a baddie. Lifetime: Jaedong vs Stork 12-13 Jaedong vs Bisu 7-9 Jaedong vs Free 10-8 Jaedong vs Kal 15-4 Jaedong vs Best 5-2 Jaedong vs Jangbi 10-1 Jaedong vs Stats 7-0 I think that's pretty telling of Jaedong's ability vs any protoss. The very top Protoss can go even with him, but people even just a small step down get dominated. Flash vs X + Show Spoiler +
vs Jaedong 23-20
vs Bisu 13-9
vs Stork 11-11
vs Kal 8-3
vs Best 5-4
vs Jangbi 2-2
vs Free 13-4
But you gotta remember how many of the v Bisus, v Frees, and v Storks where when jaedong was just starting to be good at his ZvP was like 40%.
It is pretty odd how well stork plays vs jaedong tho, compared to how much he struggles with otehr zergs
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 Bisu is the only thing standing between Stork and dual golds IMHO.... with so many zergs in the MSL and this domination of the tyrant, he´s looking good in the MSL, while in the OSL he has to beat two of  Modesty,  Fantasy, and Calm... which is almost lol worthy
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Argh I watched this live till Jangbi vs KIller game but I got too much sleepy so I couldnt watch the Stork ownage. Oh well refreshing youtube channels now :D
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Jaedong disappoints again to be honest. Why doesn't he go against the norm rather than with it.
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EPT
