I don't know about you, but Winners League is a pretty welcome change of pace for me (and especially for KT/OZ fans, I imagine). Negative aspects include that the role of so called "lesser players" diminishes, but to see Jaedong happy again, I'll swallow that gladly.
STX and Samsung are pretty much the middle of the pack after two rounds of regular ProLeague, where STX-s diversity and depth shone, and Samsung struggled to find its place. Now things might be very, very different.
First off, lets view things from KHAN's perspective. Stork is performing amazingly and barely drops a game anymore (if we exclude that shameful loss to LuCifer). great is a ZvZ god with no weak Matchups and 2 great ones. TurN is performing less than before, but the Samsung Terrans can strike when noone expects it. Brave is overall solid, and a boss in PvP, which leads me to believe that KHAN has all their bases covered, now that they don't need to depend on JangBi/Chavi/Reality any longer to win games. On the other hand, Brave has won till now through well carried out buildorders and preparedness rather than the raw talent that gets allkills. It will be interesting to see if KHAN can fulfill its potential this time around.
STX is historically very different from KHAN, their Ace underperforming, their other Starplayer currently barely out of a slump but very shaky in ZvT, and the entire team is heavily reliant on the lineup depth rather than all-kill worthy talent. STX is called the Dark Horse of ProLeague for a reason, though, since the players are enormously varying in skill. Shuttle has shown some glimpses of his former PvT dominance (and still has great PvP), Trap has come out of nowhere to maul Turn earlier this season, and Bogus is pretty damn consistent for someone who had a horrible winrate last season. And need I remind you, Modesty can bring a mean game to the table if he encounters anyone weak to mutalisks?
In Total, the huge momentum of Great and Stork is going to be very hard to stop, but STX has the antidote in the form of snipers if used correctly. Today will hopefully answer what result Kal vs. Stork would have had, and it might showcase some great P and Z action from both teams. I'm hyped, you should be too.
On January 09 2011 10:46 ]343[ wrote: wait mustaju that's actually a really good banner!
maybe you could try to anti-alias the P a bit more? it looks pixelly
also it looks like you cropped a funny bit of great's hair and where's kal lolol
ANYWAY khan better 4-1 or something. fpl points please
Believe me, Great's hair looked even more off before. He had a horrible haircut there. I'm going to try to anti-alias the P better next time, thanks for mentioning it!
Bogus is there for destroying anti-teams (to my ever lasting glee! ^^) and for the fact that I can entertain myself with the thought that Bogus might actually be good for a few more matches, after which I'll probably have to use Kal. :D EDIT: Oh, and I updated the OP a bit.
On January 09 2011 11:32 baubo wrote: Stork's last two days were probably spent drinking and getting reacquainted with WoW. I think Khan will save him as a last resort.
Stork's developed some self-discipline, keeping himself away from distractions. And can STX field a player who can take down this dragon who has recently said that "PvZ" is easy?
A match I can watch without being too emotionally invested in! Hurray!
Both teams players filing into the arena from backstage and shaking hands in the middle of the stage. Calm has a huge grin. Bogus with an awkward grin. The rest of STX not particularly expressing any joy.
Even the KHAN table seems to have 6 cans of pocari sweat, among other things? Pocari doing some good marketing in Korea the STX table is completely bare...
I thought some STX fangirls were positively obsessed, though?
The Banner looks good. I could tell you all the things that are right about it, but since you asked for constructive critisism, I'll stick to that. The title of the banner doesn't seem to mix well with the rest of it, and I would leave it off all together. And calm should NEVER be the guy inside of the letter. he looks enough like a girl before you start only showing peices of him. Again, minor stuff, its a good banner
On January 09 2011 13:03 hacklebeast wrote: I'm pumped for this.
My FPL whats modesty/reality to do well
My heart wants a Jangbang all-kill
The Banner looks good. I could tell you all the things that are right about it, but since you asked for constructive critisism, I'll stick to that. The title of the banner doesn't seem to mix well with the rest of it, and I would leave it off all together. And calm should NEVER be the guy inside of the letter. he looks enough like a girl before you start only showing peices of him. Again, minor stuff, its a good banner
I also would like to add to that by praising the OP for using Bogus to represent STX. It has recently been discovered through statistical analysis that Bogus is, in fact, the ace player of STX.
now 2 zealots chasing jangbi's scouting probe while he sends his own zealot forwards and has a goon out failing to take out kal's scouting probe? he sends his goon forwards as well, interesting
Kal now also has a forge spinning at his nat he adds his 7th and 8th gates both obs run into each other and armies move to snipe! but jangbi's goons shoot first and kal's army retreats
On January 09 2011 13:20 Scarecrow wrote: props to jangbi on the defence but that was really retarded decisionmaking from kal
no, jangbi sniped kal's reavers well and he made them hide when kal went for the snipe and so instead of eating dragoon and zealot fire he had to hold his ground
jangbi atttacks with zealot-heavy army against kal's goon-heavy army at kal's plateau
kal positions a shuttle-less reaver at the front, it immediately falls but another reaver at the back deals lots of damage and takes out jangbi's first army jangbi has a ton more units streaming that way though and now attacks kal's 3rd!
What is with Kal and being horribly inconsistent or what. He can take games off Jaedong/Flash/etc all the time but gets beat by players who seem to be way beyond his level.
edit: For once I just want to see Kal win like a solid 10 games in a row against good and bad opponents. :S
On January 09 2011 13:24 Graham wrote: What is with Kal and being horribly inconsistant or what. He can take games off Jaedong/Flash/etc all the time but gets beat by players who seem to be way beyond his level.
edit: For once I just want to see Kal win like a solid 10 games in a row against good and bad opponents. :S
Haha no. If there's one thing Kal is known for, it's failing against S-class players.
On January 09 2011 13:24 Graham wrote: What is with Kal and being horribly inconsistant or what. He can take games off Jaedong/Flash/etc all the time but gets beat by players who seem to be way beyond his level.
edit: For once I just want to see Kal win like a solid 10 games in a row against good and bad opponents. :S
Haha no. If there's one thing Kal is known for, it's failing against S-class players.
Well I find he tends to fail against them and all, but in BoX's he usually can take at least a game off against them where others fail.
edit: at least when hes playing like he should his skill usually matches up.. for half the game anyways hahaha
Fuck Yeah Jangbi. He played really well in that match, and beating Kal PvP is quite impressive. I'm hoping for a Jangbi AK but beating Calm and Modesty is gonna be tough.
On January 09 2011 13:24 Graham wrote: What is with Kal and being horribly inconsistent or what. He can take games off Jaedong/Flash/etc all the time but gets beat by players who seem to be way beyond his level.
edit: For once I just want to see Kal win like a solid 10 games in a row against good and bad opponents. :S
Kal is known as the "S-class reader".
Meaning whoever he loses to is "S-class".
While not exactly accurate, it does say that Kal can't handle S-class.
In fact, what Kal is most known for is always being able to push LeeSsang Taekbang to their limit in epic games and then lose in the end regardless of how.
On January 09 2011 13:24 Graham wrote: What is with Kal and being horribly inconsistent or what. He can take games off Jaedong/Flash/etc all the time but gets beat by players who seem to be way beyond his level.
edit: For once I just want to see Kal win like a solid 10 games in a row against good and bad opponents. :S
Kal is known as the "S-class reader".
Meaning whoever he loses to is "S-class".
While not exactly accurate, it does say that Kal can't handle S-class.
In fact, what Kal is most known for is always being able to push LeeSsang Taekbang to their limit in epic games and then lose in the end regardless of how.
Kal has a winning record against both Bisu and Stork. His problem is that he can't beat the very best ZvP and TvPers.
On January 09 2011 13:24 Graham wrote: What is with Kal and being horribly inconsistent or what. He can take games off Jaedong/Flash/etc all the time but gets beat by players who seem to be way beyond his level.
edit: For once I just want to see Kal win like a solid 10 games in a row against good and bad opponents. :S
Kal is known as the "S-class reader".
Meaning whoever he loses to is "S-class".
While not exactly accurate, it does say that Kal can't handle S-class.
In fact, what Kal is most known for is always being able to push LeeSsang Taekbang to their limit in epic games and then lose in the end regardless of how.
Kal has a winning record against both Bisu and Stork. His problem is that he can't beat the very best ZvP and TvPers.
Interesting, Kal actually does have a winning record against Bisu and Stork. The funny thing is that Kal's PvP really dragged him down during the Six Dragon era. His record in that era was 11 wins - 13 losses (45.83%)
On January 09 2011 13:24 Graham wrote: What is with Kal and being horribly inconsistent or what. He can take games off Jaedong/Flash/etc all the time but gets beat by players who seem to be way beyond his level.
edit: For once I just want to see Kal win like a solid 10 games in a row against good and bad opponents. :S
Kal is known as the "S-class reader".
Meaning whoever he loses to is "S-class".
While not exactly accurate, it does say that Kal can't handle S-class.
In fact, what Kal is most known for is always being able to push LeeSsang Taekbang to their limit in epic games and then lose in the end regardless of how.
Kal has a winning record against both Bisu and Stork. His problem is that he can't beat the very best ZvP and TvPers.
Interesting, Kal actually does have a winning record against Bisu and Stork. The funny thing is that Kal's PvP really dragged him down during the Six Dragon era. His record in that era was 11 wins - 13 losses (45.83%)
Kal's PvP was atrocious at the beginning of his career and his PvZ was amazing, but over time the two have slowly switched(although obviously Kal is still quite good at PvZ, I think it's his worst matchup right now)
finally 5 speedlings destroy the scouting probe - did it see the spire behind the main mineral line? 2nd gateway for jangbi pretty late 5th hatch at the 3rd
On January 09 2011 13:53 Lucumo wrote: Let's hope that not all the protoss switch to that bs strategy. Guess that will happen though, after all even Jangbi can win with it.
are you talking about the game that just played?
Jangbi's strategy was nothing extraordinary... Hero just folded like a house of cards though.
I am so happy for Jangbi, but this was pretty miserable from Hero. Letting a DT in his base that kills 10 of his Probes and the Pool is already bad, but it can happen. But just not killing it and letting it wait in the same base to kill 8 more probes and the Spire is embarassing. What did he think happened to the that DT? Evaporate?
On January 09 2011 13:53 Lucumo wrote: Let's hope that not all the protoss switch to that bs strategy. Guess that will happen though, after all even Jangbi can win with it.
are you talking about the game that just played?
Jangbi's strategy was nothing extraordinary... Hero just folded like a house of cards though.
That sunken location was pure fail. If you can't build a simcity where the zealots can't surround the sunken, at least make freaking two sunkens.
On January 09 2011 13:53 Lucumo wrote: Let's hope that not all the protoss switch to that bs strategy. Guess that will happen though, after all even Jangbi can win with it.
are you talking about the game that just played?
Yep, mass sair-->Zealot push with DTs or DT/Reaver drop-->HT. Don't really see how you can defend against that. Scourge are useless, mass Hydra rarely works(+you can't counter-attack due to sairs which allows the Protoss to expand), several spores maybe but I guess the Zealots would just overrun those. Dunno, I have yet to see that build fail when it's well executed.
Jangbi had his archon fighting hydras when there were a ton of clumped mutas that his goons were fighting in that big battle EDIT: Jangbi GGs, still 2 wins is really good for the shape he is in. The game vs Kal especially he played really well
Jangbi getting 2 wins is still good though. I hope that those wins will boost his confidence and help him get an all-kill or simply more wins in the future! ^^
Can't watch any more games since I have to go do some stuff, but I hope that Stork avenges Jangbi and gets an all-kill. :D
Shuttle is decent pick. If he manages to beat great he has a very good chance of taking down Stork (Stork's PvP is much worse right now than his PvZ and Shuttle's PvP is better than modesty's ZvP imo). I think I would give modesty better odds to beat Great though EDIT: Also I would favor Shuttle over Modesty for everyone else on Khan
People who don't understand the Shuttle pick: although Modesty is more likely to beat Great, STX feels that he's less likely to beat Stork and Brave/Turn. Winning one more game means very little, compared to the higher chance of winning the match.
lol, are P's so desperate to stop hydra all ins that they need to try to use DA's? What's next, fast D-Webs? Actualy, that might work; entertaining at the least.
On January 09 2011 14:55 hacklebeast wrote: lol, are P's so desperate to stop hydra all ins that they need to try to use DA's? What's next, fast D-Webs? Actualy, that might work; entertaining at the least.
Don't know why this isn't used more. Violet and Han have used maelstrom successfully to deal with mutas in the past, yet it hasn't caught on. Great play by shuttle.
Shuttle now breaking through, expecting gg from great soon.
Khan could send out another player to wear out Shuttle, but I think Empire of the Sun is better for Stork to PvP than Fortress, due to the nature of 3 player maps.
On January 09 2011 15:03 Phelix wrote: Khan could send out another player to wear out Shuttle, but I think Empire of the Sun is better for Stork to PvP than Fortress, due to the nature of 3 player maps.
Hmm, I come back and I miss some great play?! A Dark Archon and Maelstrom was used successfully?!? Wow, I'll have to check out that great vs. Shuttle game later. :O
On January 09 2011 15:03 Phelix wrote: Khan could send out another player to wear out Shuttle, but I think Empire of the Sun is better for Stork to PvP than Fortress, due to the nature of 3 player maps.
Both are 4 player maps
Oh god, I must have confused that map with something else...
Stork is 1-0 on both these maps in PvP. Stork beat Snow on EotS, while he beat Jaehoon on Fortress.
Haha, from what the replay showed, it looked like an epic game indeed... I bet Shuttle's slogan would be something like, "Take THAT, you $&#(*&@(*#&s!!!"
On January 09 2011 14:57 kamikami wrote: LOL the SHINE's build COMPLETELY SOLVED. 3 hatch hydra bust -> Muta all-in lolol. DESTROYED BY MAELSTROM.
Are you really that dumb/large enough of a fanboy to not see the difference between Shine's mutalisk all in and Great's play?
I saw the hydra bust and went away, when I returned, I see muta got raped by DA. So I assumed he did the infamous 3 hatch hydra bust -> Muta all-in. If not then my bad.
On January 09 2011 14:57 kamikami wrote: LOL the SHINE's build COMPLETELY SOLVED. 3 hatch hydra bust -> Muta all-in lolol. DESTROYED BY MAELSTROM.
Are you really that dumb/large enough of a fanboy to not see the difference between Shine's mutalisk all in and Great's play?
I saw the hydra bust and went away, when I returned, I see muta got raped by DA. So I assumed he did the infamous 3 hatch hydra bust -> Muta all-in. If not then my bad.
On January 09 2011 14:57 kamikami wrote: LOL the SHINE's build COMPLETELY SOLVED. 3 hatch hydra bust -> Muta all-in lolol. DESTROYED BY MAELSTROM.
Are you really that dumb/large enough of a fanboy to not see the difference between Shine's mutalisk all in and Great's play?
I saw the hydra bust and went away, when I returned, I see muta got raped by DA. So I assumed he did the infamous 3 hatch hydra bust -> Muta all-in. If not then my bad.
What did Great do then ?
The two builds/game plans are not remotely comparable because the situations are completely different. I'm sorry if you can't even understand that.
Shine's mutalisk play was basically an all in response. Great's play wasn't, it was pretty standard mutalisk harassment that went really badly.
Yay for my FPL, but I thought she would send a second zerg. Maybe she wants to make shuttle play all three MU's? Then again, I should know better than to try to figure out what January is thinking.
On January 09 2011 15:08 Slow Motion wrote: wow ok january what are you doing
I don't get posts like this, Reality is a fine choice. She should want to save Stork for the last game because the confidence boost Shuttle would get from beating beating Stork would give him an edge vs anyone else on Khan in the last game. The non-Stork choices for Khan are Reality/Brave/Turn/Grape. She can't pick Brave or Grape because Shuttle is great at PvP. Turn is a little better than Reality imo but Reality could have more practice on the map or other things we are unaware of. The only reason she would want to send Stork out in the sixth game and a Terran in the seventh would be if this map were terrible TvP (I'm not sure of the statistics/how the games played out on this map so I won't comment on that).
EDIT: I suppose she could have sent Chavi/Juni/Odin but I don't think any of them are as good as Brave/Turn/Reality/Grape
On January 09 2011 15:14 MountainDewJunkie wrote: Reality still better than Juni or Chavi... but barely.
Certainly worse than Turn and Brave.
I think brave would be the worst of the options, just because of how good shuttles PvP is. Stork's skill makes up for that, but Brave isn't good enough to return to even footing with his nonprotoss teammates.
On January 09 2011 15:08 Slow Motion wrote: wow ok january what are you doing
I don't get posts like this, Reality is a fine choice. She should want to save Stork for the last game because the confidence boost Shuttle would get from beating beating Stork would give him an edge vs anyone else on Khan in the last game. The non-Stork choices for Khan are Reality/Brave/Turn. She can't pick Brave because Shuttle is great at PvP. Turn is a little better than Reality imo but Reality could have more practice on the map or other things we are unaware of. The only reason she would want to send Stork out in the sixth game and a Terran in the seventh would be if this map were terrible TvP (I'm not sure of the statistics/how the games played out on this map so I won't comment on that).
Nice analysis, but I was more pissed at the fact that if she sent Stork my FPL would be perfect
On January 09 2011 14:57 kamikami wrote: LOL the SHINE's build COMPLETELY SOLVED. 3 hatch hydra bust -> Muta all-in lolol. DESTROYED BY MAELSTROM.
Are you really that dumb/large enough of a fanboy to not see the difference between Shine's mutalisk all in and Great's play?
I saw the hydra bust and went away, when I returned, I see muta got raped by DA. So I assumed he did the infamous 3 hatch hydra bust -> Muta all-in. If not then my bad.
What did Great do then ?
The two builds/game plans are not remotely comparable because the situations are completely different. I'm sorry if you can't even understand that.
Shine's mutalisk play was basically an all in response. Great's play wasn't, it was pretty standard mutalisk harassment that went really badly.
I already said that I didn't watch the part between the hydra attack and the muta attack (actually these 2 are the only moments of that game that I watched), so thank you for the info but no need to be a douche-bag.
bah I knew the unsieged tanks would bite him in the ass but shuttle withdraws the rest of his forces instead of trying to finish the remaining tanks...
shuttle's 5th is online, reality still on 3 bases more templar wait with shuttle's army - at least try to flank this time instead of just focusing on your precious templar
What is reality been doing with his CC at 10. It has been below the minerals and mining from that position? Is it so he can lift the CC over the ridge more quickly if it gets attacked?
On January 09 2011 15:35 Zaxro wrote: What is reality been doing with his CC at 10. It has been below the minerals and mining from that position? Is it so he can lift the CC over the ridge more quickly if it gets attacked?
It's easier to defend that way since tanks don't have to go down the ramp to kill dragoons.
Shuttle is a terrible player. His army is defending his expansions, but then he suddenly pulls his troops away for NO REASON and leaves tanks attacking. Surprise, surprise he loses the nexus.
On January 09 2011 15:38 J1.au wrote: Shuttle is a terrible player. His army is defending his expansions, but then he suddenly pulls his troops away for NO REASON and leaves tanks attacking. Surprise, surprise he loses the nexus.
that was more of just 1 really bad error (he didnt notice that he left a tank behind). he had really poor defense vs vulture harass that whole game, but he's not terrable just because he forgot to kill that 1 last tank (which seemingly won reality the game seeing how close the ending was).
On January 09 2011 15:35 Zaxro wrote: What is reality been doing with his CC at 10. It has been below the minerals and mining from that position? Is it so he can lift the CC over the ridge more quickly if it gets attacked?
It's easier to defend that way since tanks don't have to go down the ramp to kill dragoons.
Thanks for the explanation. I was pretty confused when I first saw that but I figured it was for better defending it somehow.
On January 09 2011 15:36 Elefanto wrote: where did those units come from reality
he had nothing and suddenly vults and tanks everywhre O.O
Probably bad macro, having the pretty big trust fund left to seal the deal.
Good harassment. It was razer thin till the end.
If Shuttle found it to his pleasure to actually mine gas to produce an arbiter or killed that one tank for that matter...
Why? His economy only got back up to speed at the very end of the game, when he maynarded all his scvs to his 4th. His army at the end was basically all vultures(fast and cheap) given the lack of resources. It seemed normal to me why he could macro up a larger army than shuttle.
Even though Stork didn't come out to play, I'm glad that this match today showed that Khan doesn't have to rely on Stork heavily to get reverse kills and stuff.
Instead, they can rely more on Jangbi in the future.
Despite his loss i love Shuttle and the maelstorm was superb and game-winning. It really is viable and worth it. If you scout midgame muta switch for templar sniping/harass then i think it should be a normal decision to make now. It's even handy later anyway, we've seen feedback and maelstorm used lategame too lately.
He's a great PvP player, and has shown great potential in the other matchups imo. His macro is up there with BeSt's imo, and it's probably his focus on macro that lets him down a bit. Anyway good series even without stork it was entertaining.
Edit: I just watched the last match, he put up a good fight but damn his vulture defense needs some work. I get the feeling he hadn't been practicing for this matchup/map. It's got a nice open middle for flanks but damn the low ground bases being overlooked, so annoying. Except for a bit of harass Reality played the typical 3base push kinda game and managed to win. Cross position i think Shuttle would have won, or if he just hadn't have left those units on the right to kill his base :/ I honestly think Shuttle played the better game but alas a bad decision can lose you the game very quickly in a PvT.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/CkYf4.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/10.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/5.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/uniforms/10.png){kind=icon}
Samsung KHAN vs STX SouL![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/icons/uniforms/5.png){kind=icon}
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/FUFSg.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/wYjci.png)
Stork is performing amazingly and barely drops a game anymore (if we exclude that shameful loss to 
great is a ZvZ god with no weak Matchups and 2 great ones. 
TurN is performing less than before, but the Samsung Terrans can strike when noone expects it. ![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/D7t3t.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/rtICn.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/iAlRF.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/YIw19.png)
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/u6bVk.png)
> 
Clam
Kal
Bogus
Stork hwaiting!
![[image loading]](http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Samsung-Galaxy-Tab-in-hand-FPS-game.jpg)
