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On November 13 2010 16:30 seRapH wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 16:16 gorchiza wrote:On November 13 2010 16:09 kamikami wrote:On November 13 2010 15:52 mustaju wrote:On November 13 2010 15:50 nayumi wrote:On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote:
NEXT time. hahaha bitterness is bitter  Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different. In fact STX coaches had no choice. The score was 2-3 and they need to even up the score so they can only send the best player available. Sending Last on a game-deciding match is a poor decision while the other team still has many good players. Luck doesn't play much role here since it was like 95% that STX coaches would send Calm. The line ups are made before that, they are not deciding at the moment who will they send. Through the week every palyer train ona specific map so the order is usually like that. The only uknown is that the opposing player don't know who will face in the match. We don't know too. That is to make things more interesting. So in the end, One coach send the line up , the other coach send the line up. Nobody knows what will face in the day. That's the old format. New format is to send them out as you go, to prevent betting scandals.
No, I'm pretty sure the new format is that the pre-determined lineups are not publicized before the match.
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Estonia4505 Posts
On November 14 2010 00:35 McDonalds wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 16:30 seRapH wrote:On November 13 2010 16:16 gorchiza wrote:On November 13 2010 16:09 kamikami wrote:On November 13 2010 15:52 mustaju wrote:On November 13 2010 15:50 nayumi wrote:On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote:
NEXT time. hahaha bitterness is bitter Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different. In fact STX coaches had no choice. The score was 2-3 and they need to even up the score so they can only send the best player available. Sending Last on a game-deciding match is a poor decision while the other team still has many good players. Luck doesn't play much role here since it was like 95% that STX coaches would send Calm. The line ups are made before that, they are not deciding at the moment who will they send. Through the week every palyer train ona specific map so the order is usually like that. The only uknown is that the opposing player don't know who will face in the match. We don't know too. That is to make things more interesting. So in the end, One coach send the line up , the other coach send the line up. Nobody knows what will face in the day. That's the old format. New format is to send them out as you go, to prevent betting scandals. No, I'm pretty sure the new format is that the pre-determined lineups are not publicized before the match.
Players still practice the map before the match. The decisions are not completely random. Maybe you understand it in that context?
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On November 14 2010 00:40 mustaju wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 00:35 McDonalds wrote:On November 13 2010 16:30 seRapH wrote:On November 13 2010 16:16 gorchiza wrote:On November 13 2010 16:09 kamikami wrote:On November 13 2010 15:52 mustaju wrote:On November 13 2010 15:50 nayumi wrote:On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote:
NEXT time. hahaha bitterness is bitter Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different. In fact STX coaches had no choice. The score was 2-3 and they need to even up the score so they can only send the best player available. Sending Last on a game-deciding match is a poor decision while the other team still has many good players. Luck doesn't play much role here since it was like 95% that STX coaches would send Calm. The line ups are made before that, they are not deciding at the moment who will they send. Through the week every palyer train ona specific map so the order is usually like that. The only uknown is that the opposing player don't know who will face in the match. We don't know too. That is to make things more interesting. So in the end, One coach send the line up , the other coach send the line up. Nobody knows what will face in the day. That's the old format. New format is to send them out as you go, to prevent betting scandals. No, I'm pretty sure the new format is that the pre-determined lineups are not publicized before the match. Players still practice the map before the match. The decisions are not completely random. Maybe you understand it in that context?
I'm not sure what makes that relevant to what I said. I was just pointing out that the lineup is still set before the match begins. I agree with what you're saying, yes. But the map list is both predetermined and publicized, whereas the player list is kept secret.
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By.Sun is doing pretty well.
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 By.Sun wants to become good in PvP to help balance SKT Protoss line 
Bisu and his PvZ is looking imba - even when he is losing a game he manages to comeback and win it. So he is 9-0 this season in PL with one game to go in 1st round against Oz.
 Kwanro is now on a two game losing streak, so s2/Hyuk are next in Zerg line to play.
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On November 14 2010 01:10 McDonalds wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 00:40 mustaju wrote:On November 14 2010 00:35 McDonalds wrote:On November 13 2010 16:30 seRapH wrote:On November 13 2010 16:16 gorchiza wrote:On November 13 2010 16:09 kamikami wrote:On November 13 2010 15:52 mustaju wrote:On November 13 2010 15:50 nayumi wrote:On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote:
NEXT time. hahaha bitterness is bitter Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different. In fact STX coaches had no choice. The score was 2-3 and they need to even up the score so they can only send the best player available. Sending Last on a game-deciding match is a poor decision while the other team still has many good players. Luck doesn't play much role here since it was like 95% that STX coaches would send Calm. The line ups are made before that, they are not deciding at the moment who will they send. Through the week every palyer train ona specific map so the order is usually like that. The only uknown is that the opposing player don't know who will face in the match. We don't know too. That is to make things more interesting. So in the end, One coach send the line up , the other coach send the line up. Nobody knows what will face in the day. That's the old format. New format is to send them out as you go, to prevent betting scandals. No, I'm pretty sure the new format is that the pre-determined lineups are not publicized before the match. Players still practice the map before the match. The decisions are not completely random. Maybe you understand it in that context? I'm not sure what makes that relevant to what I said. I was just pointing out that the lineup is still set before the match begins. I agree with what you're saying, yes. But the map list is both predetermined and publicized, whereas the player list is kept secret.
Do you have any evidence for the player list being predetermined? I don't claim to know the answer. However, I would like to know for sure whether the coaches can make quick decisions or not.
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I think player list is not predetermined because coaches sometimes say in interviews when we learned about opponent on specific game we adviced our player to play like this and that. Sure coaches try to guess who will play on which map but I don't think they know until it's announced for everyone.
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On November 14 2010 02:44 Hazard wrote:By.Sun wants to become good in PvP to help balance SKT Protoss line Bisu and his PvZ is looking imba - even when he is losing a game he manages to comeback and win it. So he is 9-0 this season in PL with one game to go in 1st round against Oz. Kwanro is now on a two game losing streak, so s2/ Hyuk are next in Zerg line to play.
bisu got lucky that calm sucks shit so much. calm had the advantage, any other zerg in the same position, even saint or princess, would have won
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On November 14 2010 03:09 Simplistik wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 01:10 McDonalds wrote:On November 14 2010 00:40 mustaju wrote:On November 14 2010 00:35 McDonalds wrote:On November 13 2010 16:30 seRapH wrote:On November 13 2010 16:16 gorchiza wrote:On November 13 2010 16:09 kamikami wrote:On November 13 2010 15:52 mustaju wrote:On November 13 2010 15:50 nayumi wrote:On November 13 2010 15:36 mustaju wrote:
NEXT time. hahaha bitterness is bitter Really, a lot came down to luck. Not talking about the DT incident but much rather about the lineups. Had Bisu played last and Calm Fantasy, for example, it might have been a lot different. In fact STX coaches had no choice. The score was 2-3 and they need to even up the score so they can only send the best player available. Sending Last on a game-deciding match is a poor decision while the other team still has many good players. Luck doesn't play much role here since it was like 95% that STX coaches would send Calm. The line ups are made before that, they are not deciding at the moment who will they send. Through the week every palyer train ona specific map so the order is usually like that. The only uknown is that the opposing player don't know who will face in the match. We don't know too. That is to make things more interesting. So in the end, One coach send the line up , the other coach send the line up. Nobody knows what will face in the day. That's the old format. New format is to send them out as you go, to prevent betting scandals. No, I'm pretty sure the new format is that the pre-determined lineups are not publicized before the match. Players still practice the map before the match. The decisions are not completely random. Maybe you understand it in that context? I'm not sure what makes that relevant to what I said. I was just pointing out that the lineup is still set before the match begins. I agree with what you're saying, yes. But the map list is both predetermined and publicized, whereas the player list is kept secret. Do you have any evidence for the player list being predetermined? I don't claim to know the answer. However, I would like to know for sure whether the coaches can make quick decisions or not.
That was the way it was after the scandal happened. There were a lot of posts about this on the forum. Originally the list was created ahead of time and published ahead of time. They just stopped publishing it and instead kept the matches a secret until they happened.
However, now that I am looking around the forum I am seeing a few recent posts saying what you guys have been saying. I'm not sure what the original source is or why they would make that additional change now but you might be right. I guess they could have slipped that in there at the beginning of the new Proleague season along with the other changes like Bo7. I didn't see anything about it until now, though.
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On November 14 2010 03:29 Hazard wrote:
I think player list is not predetermined because coaches sometimes say in interviews when we learned about opponent on specific game we adviced our player to play like this and that. Sure coaches try to guess who will play on which map but I don't think they know until it's announced for everyone.
Yep, interviews point to situations where coaches actually have more than one player prepare for the same map (or slot in the lineup). But it's rare.
The players are definitely not fixed before the game because a Kespa referee goes to each coach before a match to pick up a piece of paper with the coach's player choice. You'll see this once in awhile, because the broadcasters don't always focus on the bench when it happens.
On November 13 2010 21:59 mustaju wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 18:00 Zona wrote:
If a team wins once, you could arguably talk about luck.
When a team wins 8 times in a row...such talk becomes somewhat farfetched. Fine. I'm willing to concede that it was either better decision making on a level I don't really understand, or luck today. In general, most SKT victories are deserved. As is this one. Doesn't mean you should treat us as walkovers, I think.
Whoa...my comment shouldn't be construed as a slight to STX at all. I just thought attributing SKT's victory to luck was a bit dismissive of the strategizing and preparation involved.
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Estonia4505 Posts
On November 13 2010 18:00 Zona wrote:
Whoa...my comment shouldn't be construed as a slight to STX at all. I just thought attributing SKT's victory to luck was a bit dismissive of the strategizing and preparation involved.
Good, we're agreed then.
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i feel like stx hasn't beaten skt since 2009 lol. i could be wrong though.
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9071 Posts
On November 14 2010 05:22 seRapH wrote:
i feel like stx hasn't beaten skt since 2009 lol. i could be wrong though.
its rather 2008, I remember the match. Ace on Andromeda, Bisu was just coming out of a slump again, went 2 gate rush against Calm but Calm went 9 pool and raped
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On November 14 2010 05:27 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 05:22 seRapH wrote:
i feel like stx hasn't beaten skt since 2009 lol. i could be wrong though. its rather 2008, I remember the match. Ace on Andromeda, Bisu was just coming out of a slump again, went 2 gate rush against Calm but Calm went 9 pool and raped
Isn't 2 gate good against 9 pool?
Kinda sounds like Bisu messed up in that case.
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Baa?21245 Posts
On November 14 2010 05:27 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 05:22 seRapH wrote:
i feel like stx hasn't beaten skt since 2009 lol. i could be wrong though. its rather 2008, I remember the match. Ace on Andromeda, Bisu was just coming out of a slump again, went 2 gate rush against Calm but Calm went 9 pool and raped
December27th, 2009 TYVM.
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9071 Posts
On November 14 2010 05:46 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 05:27 disciple wrote:On November 14 2010 05:22 seRapH wrote:
i feel like stx hasn't beaten skt since 2009 lol. i could be wrong though. its rather 2008, I remember the match. Ace on Andromeda, Bisu was just coming out of a slump again, went 2 gate rush against Calm but Calm went 9 pool and raped December27th, 2009 TYVM.
lol really... damn time goes by so fast
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9071 Posts
On November 14 2010 05:28 Lightwip wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 05:27 disciple wrote:On November 14 2010 05:22 seRapH wrote:
i feel like stx hasn't beaten skt since 2009 lol. i could be wrong though. its rather 2008, I remember the match. Ace on Andromeda, Bisu was just coming out of a slump again, went 2 gate rush against Calm but Calm went 9 pool and raped Isn't 2 gate good against 9 pool? Kinda sounds like Bisu messed up in that case.
no, zerg fends of easily, not to mention toss must defend his own base as well, since lots are sooo slow
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On November 14 2010 06:09 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 05:46 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On November 14 2010 05:27 disciple wrote:On November 14 2010 05:22 seRapH wrote:
i feel like stx hasn't beaten skt since 2009 lol. i could be wrong though. its rather 2008, I remember the match. Ace on Andromeda, Bisu was just coming out of a slump again, went 2 gate rush against Calm but Calm went 9 pool and raped December27th, 2009 TYVM. lol really... damn time goes by so fast
Dec 27 is a different game.
Bisu vs Clam was June 21 2008.
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Baa?21245 Posts
On November 14 2010 06:16 Lightwip wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2010 06:09 disciple wrote:On November 14 2010 05:46 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:On November 14 2010 05:27 disciple wrote:On November 14 2010 05:22 seRapH wrote:
i feel like stx hasn't beaten skt since 2009 lol. i could be wrong though. its rather 2008, I remember the match. Ace on Andromeda, Bisu was just coming out of a slump again, went 2 gate rush against Calm but Calm went 9 pool and raped December27th, 2009 TYVM. lol really... damn time goes by so fast Dec 27 is a different game. Bisu vs Clam was June 21 2008.
I'm saying we won against SKT1 less than a year ago, not way back in 2008 like disciple is saying.
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EPT
