On June 28 2010 18:13 Jackal03 wrote: as long as kt doesn't take to ace, they'll win
As long as Flash doesn't get a TvT as match, he demolished everyone in TvZ and TvP so far. Still it's abnormal to see that Flash is "weak" at tvt these days :s
On June 28 2010 18:52 Scarecrow wrote: how is losing to free with carriers in an epic game on match point slumping?
pretty much this. Flash is still playing really well... just that everyone else has upped their game as well
lol yeah, i completely agree. until flash gets starts losing in individual leagues and fails in proleague playoffs, let's not throw the word "slumping" around like that. geeze...
On June 28 2010 18:51 Jackal03 wrote: i never thought i would see this, but flash is slumping....
I wouldn't say so. Remember every time he lost an ace game he also won a standard game in the same series; he's just not as invincible as he used to be.
On June 28 2010 18:51 Jackal03 wrote: i never thought i would see this, but flash is slumping....
I wouldn't say so. Remember every time he lost an ace game he also won a standard game in the same series; he's just not as invincible as he used to be.
that's what i call a slump, he stoped being the 90% win kid
On June 28 2010 18:52 Scarecrow wrote: how is losing to free with carriers in an epic game on match point slumping?
pretty much this. Flash is still playing really well... just that everyone else has upped their game as well
lol yeah, i completely agree. until flash gets starts losing in individual leagues and fails in proleague playoffs, let's not throw the word "slumping" around like that. geeze...
I don't know what planet you're on but, regardless of the quality, Flash losing more games than he wins is a slump. It doesn't matter if everyone else in the world got better, compared to himself a month ago he's playing worse general games and losing more often than not.
It's not just THIS one game that's the reason, this just adds to it.
On June 28 2010 18:51 Jackal03 wrote: i never thought i would see this, but flash is slumping....
I wouldn't say so. Remember every time he lost an ace game he also won a standard game in the same series; he's just not as invincible as he used to be.
We said that about Jaedong i think... Last year around this time? They will allways be back. They allways fell, they allways returned, so is leessang era.
A slump is a long term problem, not a rough month. Flash hasn't had good results this month, but he'll bounce back when individual leagues catch up to his seeded spot and of course for PL finals.
On June 28 2010 18:52 Scarecrow wrote: how is losing to free with carriers in an epic game on match point slumping?
pretty much this. Flash is still playing really well... just that everyone else has upped their game as well
lol yeah, i completely agree. until flash gets starts losing in individual leagues and fails in proleague playoffs, let's not throw the word "slumping" around like that. geeze...
I don't know what planet you're on but, regardless of the quality, Flash losing more games than he wins is a slump. It doesn't matter if everyone else in the world got better, compared to himself a month ago he's playing worse general games and losing more often than not.
It's not just THIS one game that's the reason, this just adds to it.
in my eyes he's playing just as well as he did. for example, flash nearly had that game but i have never seen free multitask and play this well in a long, long time. this was the case against a lot of his ace opponents, which was what the commentators were discussing the other day - how players suddenly to play so much better than they usually do against flash. his gameplay is just as strong and solid to me. his opponents have stepped it up. with preparation, however, i expect flash to dominate once again in individual leagues. he's in both msl and osl, leading his team to proleague playoffs, and is just fine. not winning 90% doesn't mean he's in a "slump" on all of a sudden. to me, "slump" means a drastic fall and collapse. dictionary.com agrees. and i can tell you that flash has not drastically collapsed. only difference might be that he has so many things on his plate right now that he doesn't have enough time to prepare for games. is he playing worse? no, not really.
On June 28 2010 18:52 Scarecrow wrote: how is losing to free with carriers in an epic game on match point slumping?
pretty much this. Flash is still playing really well... just that everyone else has upped their game as well
lol yeah, i completely agree. until flash gets starts losing in individual leagues and fails in proleague playoffs, let's not throw the word "slumping" around like that. geeze...
I don't know what planet you're on but, regardless of the quality, Flash losing more games than he wins is a slump. It doesn't matter if everyone else in the world got better, compared to himself a month ago he's playing worse general games and losing more often than not.
It's not just THIS one game that's the reason, this just adds to it.
in my eyes he's playing just as well as he did. for example, flash nearly had that game but i have never seen free multitask and play this well in a long, long time. this was the case against a lot of his ace opponents, which was what the commentators were discussing the other day - how players suddenly to play so much better than they usually do against flash. his gameplay is just as strong and solid to me. his opponents have stepped it up. with preparation, however, i expect flash to dominate once again in individual leagues. he's in both msl and osl, leading his team to proleague playoffs, and is just fine. not winning 90% doesn't mean he's in a "slump" on all of a sudden. to me, "slump" means a drastic fall and collapse. dictionary.com agrees. and i can tell you that flash has not drastically collapsed.
im on planet earth btw. which one are u on?
Flash is a mere 50% in proleague this round...and the direction he's "leading" his team is not a strong one, at 1-5...
On June 28 2010 18:52 Scarecrow wrote: how is losing to free with carriers in an epic game on match point slumping?
pretty much this. Flash is still playing really well... just that everyone else has upped their game as well
lol yeah, i completely agree. until flash gets starts losing in individual leagues and fails in proleague playoffs, let's not throw the word "slumping" around like that. geeze...
I don't know what planet you're on but, regardless of the quality, Flash losing more games than he wins is a slump. It doesn't matter if everyone else in the world got better, compared to himself a month ago he's playing worse general games and losing more often than not.
It's not just THIS one game that's the reason, this just adds to it.
in my eyes he's playing just as well as he did. for example, flash nearly had that game but i have never seen free multitask and play this well in a long, long time. this was the case against a lot of his ace opponents, which was what the commentators were discussing the other day - how players suddenly to play so much better than they usually do against flash. his gameplay is just as strong and solid to me. his opponents have stepped it up. with preparation, however, i expect flash to dominate once again in individual leagues. he's in both msl and osl, leading his team to proleague playoffs, and is just fine. not winning 90% doesn't mean he's in a "slump" on all of a sudden. to me, "slump" means a drastic fall and collapse. dictionary.com agrees. and i can tell you that flash has not drastically collapsed.
im on planet earth btw. which one are u on?
Flash is a mere 50% in proleague this round...and the direction he's "leading" his team is not a strong one, at 1-5...
Lair starts for zero.
<50% if you count today's game...
Is there no room for ups and downs? What about the previous rounds?
On June 28 2010 18:52 Scarecrow wrote: how is losing to free with carriers in an epic game on match point slumping?
pretty much this. Flash is still playing really well... just that everyone else has upped their game as well
lol yeah, i completely agree. until flash gets starts losing in individual leagues and fails in proleague playoffs, let's not throw the word "slumping" around like that. geeze...
I don't know what planet you're on but, regardless of the quality, Flash losing more games than he wins is a slump. It doesn't matter if everyone else in the world got better, compared to himself a month ago he's playing worse general games and losing more often than not.
It's not just THIS one game that's the reason, this just adds to it.
in my eyes he's playing just as well as he did. for example, flash nearly had that game but i have never seen free multitask and play this well in a long, long time. this was the case against a lot of his ace opponents, which was what the commentators were discussing the other day - how players suddenly to play so much better than they usually do against flash. his gameplay is just as strong and solid to me. his opponents have stepped it up. with preparation, however, i expect flash to dominate once again in individual leagues. he's in both msl and osl, leading his team to proleague playoffs, and is just fine. not winning 90% doesn't mean he's in a "slump" on all of a sudden. to me, "slump" means a drastic fall and collapse. dictionary.com agrees. and i can tell you that flash has not drastically collapsed. only difference might be that he has so many things on his plate right now that he doesn't have enough time to prepare for games. is he playing worse? no, not really.
im on planet earth btw. which one are u on?
The "He's just not winning 90% of his games!" argument is such crap. It's not that he's not winning as much, it's that he's losing a lot. He's losing games he shouldn't, making mistakes he shouldn't (He threw away 30 goliaths this game to dragoons and templars in the south, or those turrets, for instance -- The entire ace game vs Really, as well), and he's not leading KT to playoffs -- he was for the past four rounds, but for this entire month he has failed in the ace match, what, six times? Even when he was practicing specifically for ace against someone who wasn't? (vs Skyhigh, who played twice).
Flash is playing worse, and his winrate reflects that. It's nice that the quality of his opponent is improving but if he can't keep up then it's still a slump.
i guess im just more lenient players when they lose. especially for guys like flash who have so pressure being the leader of his team and preparing for both msl/osl. in my opinion, he doesn't deserve to be called "slumping" yet. but if u want to consider anything less than winning 90% "slumping," feel free. however, he needs to lose over an extended period of time to be considered "slumping." give him some time until individual leagues / proleague playoffs.
On June 28 2010 19:11 OneOther wrote: i guess im just more lenient players when they lose. especially for guys like flash who have so pressure being the leader of his team and preparing for both msl/osl. in my opinion, he doesn't deserve to be called "slumping" yet. but if u want to consider anything less than winning 90% "slumping," feel free. however, he needs to lose over an extended period of time to be considered "slumping." give him some time until individual leagues / proleague playoffs.
If he goes <50% in individual leagues as well, then I believe we can call slump. Until then, only proleague performance isn't a total indicator of a slump. I guess i'm agreeing with you
On June 28 2010 18:52 Scarecrow wrote: how is losing to free with carriers in an epic game on match point slumping?
pretty much this. Flash is still playing really well... just that everyone else has upped their game as well
lol yeah, i completely agree. until flash gets starts losing in individual leagues and fails in proleague playoffs, let's not throw the word "slumping" around like that. geeze...
I don't know what planet you're on but, regardless of the quality, Flash losing more games than he wins is a slump. It doesn't matter if everyone else in the world got better, compared to himself a month ago he's playing worse general games and losing more often than not.
It's not just THIS one game that's the reason, this just adds to it.
in my eyes he's playing just as well as he did. for example, flash nearly had that game but i have never seen free multitask and play this well in a long, long time. this was the case against a lot of his ace opponents, which was what the commentators were discussing the other day - how players suddenly to play so much better than they usually do against flash. his gameplay is just as strong and solid to me. his opponents have stepped it up. with preparation, however, i expect flash to dominate once again in individual leagues. he's in both msl and osl, leading his team to proleague playoffs, and is just fine. not winning 90% doesn't mean he's in a "slump" on all of a sudden. to me, "slump" means a drastic fall and collapse. dictionary.com agrees. and i can tell you that flash has not drastically collapsed. only difference might be that he has so many things on his plate right now that he doesn't have enough time to prepare for games. is he playing worse? no, not really.
im on planet earth btw. which one are u on?
The "He's just not winning 90% of his games!" argument is such crap. It's not that he's not winning as much, it's that he's losing a lot. He's losing games he shouldn't, making mistakes he shouldn't (He threw away 30 goliaths this game to dragoons and templars in the south, or those turrets, for instance -- The entire ace game vs Really, as well), and he's not leading KT to playoffs -- he was for the past four rounds, but for this entire month he has failed in the ace match, what, six times? Even when he was practicing specifically for ace against someone who wasn't? (vs Skyhigh, who played twice).
Flash is playing worse, and his winrate reflects that. It's nice that the quality of his opponent is improving but if he can't keep up then it's still a slump.
also oh shit I'm on Tallon IV
so going 50-50 in past nine games is a slump now? ROFL. and don't give me this "losing games he shouldn't have and making mistakes he shouldn't have." if you don't understand the game don't act like you do. he built those turrets to stall carriers at 12 while taking out his expos. why didn't it work? well, free simply played brilliantly this game. sometimes, you have to give his opponents some credit.
On June 28 2010 19:11 OneOther wrote: i guess im just more lenient players when they lose. especially for guys like flash who have so pressure being the leader of his team and preparing for both msl/osl. in my opinion, he doesn't deserve to be called "slumping" yet. but if u want to consider anything less than winning 90% "slumping," feel free. however, he needs to lose over an extended period of time to be considered "slumping." give him some time until individual leagues / proleague playoffs.
If he goes <50% in individual leagues as well, then I believe we can call slump. Until then, only proleague performance isn't a total indicator of a slump. I guess i'm agreeing with you
yeah, that's what im saying. don't make the word "slumping" lose its meaning by calling a guy going 50-50 in past 9 games "slumping." jesus. and that was only a week after wining the osl title.
On June 28 2010 19:11 OneOther wrote: i guess im just more lenient players when they lose. especially for guys like flash who have so pressure being the leader of his team and preparing for both msl/osl. in my opinion, he doesn't deserve to be called "slumping" yet. but if u want to consider anything less than winning 90% "slumping," feel free. however, he needs to lose over an extended period of time to be considered "slumping." give him some time until individual leagues / proleague playoffs.
If he goes <50% in individual leagues as well, then I believe we can call slump. Until then, only proleague performance isn't a total indicator of a slump. I guess i'm agreeing with you
yeah, that's what im saying. don't make the word "slumping" lose its meaning by calling a guy going 50-50 in past 9 games "slumping." jesus. and that was only a week after wining the osl title.
On June 28 2010 19:11 OneOther wrote: i guess im just more lenient players when they lose. especially for guys like flash who have so pressure being the leader of his team and preparing for both msl/osl. in my opinion, he doesn't deserve to be called "slumping" yet. but if u want to consider anything less than winning 90% "slumping," feel free. however, he needs to lose over an extended period of time to be considered "slumping." give him some time until individual leagues / proleague playoffs.
If he goes <50% in individual leagues as well, then I believe we can call slump. Until then, only proleague performance isn't a total indicator of a slump. I guess i'm agreeing with you
yeah, that's what im saying. don't make the word "slumping" lose its meaning by calling a guy going 50-50 in past 9 games "slumping." jesus. and that was only a week after wining the osl title.
What? He's 4-6 in his last 10.
5-5 until tonight's game, which i forgot to count. so 5-6. does this matter? no lol. saying a guy going roughly 50% in a sample size of 10 games is slumping..hahahah. what has this world come to
edit: oh i forgot to mention this newbie guy is in both individiual leagues (defending champion in one of them?!) and the proleague playoffs as well..god what a slump
Weird, I thought Zero managed the large battle just about as well as possible. Storms didn't hit nearly as much as they could have, and the battle even took place right at his macro spot. I guess the econ harass by Stats mattered the most in that game.
On June 28 2010 19:11 OneOther wrote: i guess im just more lenient players when they lose. especially for guys like flash who have so pressure being the leader of his team and preparing for both msl/osl. in my opinion, he doesn't deserve to be called "slumping" yet. but if u want to consider anything less than winning 90% "slumping," feel free. however, he needs to lose over an extended period of time to be considered "slumping." give him some time until individual leagues / proleague playoffs.
If he goes <50% in individual leagues as well, then I believe we can call slump. Until then, only proleague performance isn't a total indicator of a slump. I guess i'm agreeing with you
yeah, that's what im saying. don't make the word "slumping" lose its meaning by calling a guy going 50-50 in past 9 games "slumping." jesus. and that was only a week after wining the osl title.
What? He's 4-6 in his last 10.
5-5 until tonight's game, which i forgot to count. so 5-6. does this matter? no lol. saying a guy going roughly 50% in a sample size of 10 games is slumping..hahahah. what has this world come to
Dont forget that People as call JD slumping if he loses twice on a day. If you wanna look at someone slumping, look at mr Kim Taek Yong, even though he havent been kicked out of the OSL yet it's gonna come soon, take my words for it
Flash isn't slumping, he simply isn't in invincible mode anymore. If he goes 50% next month then we can say he's slumping. He was never going to be able to keep up that 80% beast mode, so dropping from that perch shouldn't be seen as a slump.
Zero didn't take advantage of that double gas expo . No mutas and no lurkers on time .... Zergs are giving up air control so easy against 1 stargate and suffer for it .
On June 28 2010 19:11 OneOther wrote: i guess im just more lenient players when they lose. especially for guys like flash who have so pressure being the leader of his team and preparing for both msl/osl. in my opinion, he doesn't deserve to be called "slumping" yet. but if u want to consider anything less than winning 90% "slumping," feel free. however, he needs to lose over an extended period of time to be considered "slumping." give him some time until individual leagues / proleague playoffs.
If he goes <50% in individual leagues as well, then I believe we can call slump. Until then, only proleague performance isn't a total indicator of a slump. I guess i'm agreeing with you
yeah, that's what im saying. don't make the word "slumping" lose its meaning by calling a guy going 50-50 in past 9 games "slumping." jesus. and that was only a week after wining the osl title.
What? He's 4-6 in his last 10.
5-5 until tonight's game, which i forgot to count. so 5-6. does this matter? no lol. saying a guy going roughly 50% in a sample size of 10 games is slumping..hahahah. what has this world come to
5-6 would be last 11 games? He's 4-6, period, and has lost every ace match. He's also playing worse -- even if his opponents are playing better, he's been playing worse, too. 40% winrate for this month is bad. Going from FLASH to Killer in terms of winrate and ace match performance is pretty abysmal.
edit -- call it a minislump since it's only one month if you want but the drop in quality of most of his games and winrate is slump proportion.
Flash slumping or not... who cares? This is a game there always must be a looser and a winner. The most important thing is to win when you have to. Flash holds his chances for all the leagues - MSL + OSL + SPL! GL
On June 28 2010 19:24 o[twist] wrote: flash lost TvT ace after TvT ace after TvT ace. i think it is arguably a real slump.
Is the games bad? Does he play bad? Is he an underdog against anyone? No. No. NO.
Dont call it yet, I'd gladly admit that he is not living up to expectations. But hell, thats what we have Stats for, finally starting to revive the term "KT Toss". Even though Violet isnt pairing up with Stats to be come what Ra and Reach was, what I wrote on liquipedia's article on Stats is becoming true.
I can't believe the audacity of people even daring to mention the s-word in a situation like this. Are you kidding? Once Flash drops out of both leagues while only winning half his proleague games, then you can bring it up.
On June 28 2010 19:24 o[twist] wrote: flash lost TvT ace after TvT ace after TvT ace. i think it is arguably a real slump.
Is the games bad? Does he play bad? Is he an underdog against anyone? No. No. NO.
Extending this discussion with another reply probably won't change any opinions, but in my eyes Flash is definitely no longer the automatic favorite against ANY other player, the way he once was.
On June 28 2010 19:11 OneOther wrote: i guess im just more lenient players when they lose. especially for guys like flash who have so pressure being the leader of his team and preparing for both msl/osl. in my opinion, he doesn't deserve to be called "slumping" yet. but if u want to consider anything less than winning 90% "slumping," feel free. however, he needs to lose over an extended period of time to be considered "slumping." give him some time until individual leagues / proleague playoffs.
If he goes <50% in individual leagues as well, then I believe we can call slump. Until then, only proleague performance isn't a total indicator of a slump. I guess i'm agreeing with you
yeah, that's what im saying. don't make the word "slumping" lose its meaning by calling a guy going 50-50 in past 9 games "slumping." jesus. and that was only a week after wining the osl title.
What? He's 4-6 in his last 10.
5-5 until tonight's game, which i forgot to count. so 5-6. does this matter? no lol. saying a guy going roughly 50% in a sample size of 10 games is slumping..hahahah. what has this world come to
5-6 would be last 11 games? He's 4-6, period, and has lost every ace match. He's also playing worse -- even if his opponents are playing better, he's been playing worse, too. 40% winrate for this month is bad. Going from FLASH to Killer in terms of winrate and ace match performance is pretty abysmal.
edit -- call it a minislump since it's only one month if you want but the drop in quality of most of his games and winrate is slump proportion.
Statistics don't reveal the entire story, exactly how those games played out and how Flash lost is more important.
On June 28 2010 19:24 o[twist] wrote: flash lost TvT ace after TvT ace after TvT ace. i think it is arguably a real slump.
No it isn't. Flash wasn't playing badly in those TvTs, he was playing pretty damn well but his lack of preparation showed. Proleague, MSL, and OSL keep releasing new maps and I assume with Flash being the only ace KT has, already deep into both individual leagues, and having a matchup that requires the most map understanding out of all matchups, he needs to prepare heavily for each map for each race and I reckon its getting to him.
It wasn't like Fantasy's slump of pathetic build orders or wall ins or Bisu's awful slump from hell where his decision making and army control was sluggish. Flash is still playing well, just not as well as previously where maps were simply reused or very similar to previous maps.
On June 28 2010 19:11 OneOther wrote: i guess im just more lenient players when they lose. especially for guys like flash who have so pressure being the leader of his team and preparing for both msl/osl. in my opinion, he doesn't deserve to be called "slumping" yet. but if u want to consider anything less than winning 90% "slumping," feel free. however, he needs to lose over an extended period of time to be considered "slumping." give him some time until individual leagues / proleague playoffs.
If he goes <50% in individual leagues as well, then I believe we can call slump. Until then, only proleague performance isn't a total indicator of a slump. I guess i'm agreeing with you
yeah, that's what im saying. don't make the word "slumping" lose its meaning by calling a guy going 50-50 in past 9 games "slumping." jesus. and that was only a week after wining the osl title.
What? He's 4-6 in his last 10.
5-5 until tonight's game, which i forgot to count. so 5-6. does this matter? no lol. saying a guy going roughly 50% in a sample size of 10 games is slumping..hahahah. what has this world come to
5-6 would be last 11 games? He's 4-6, period, and has lost every ace match. He's also playing worse -- even if his opponents are playing better, he's been playing worse, too. 40% winrate for this month is bad. Going from FLASH to Killer in terms of winrate and ace match performance is pretty abysmal.
edit -- call it a minislump since it's only one month if you want but the drop in quality of most of his games and winrate is slump proportion.
see, i guess that's we differ. i don't really think that flash is playing worse in terms of actual games. also, what's the point of saying 4-6 out of 10 instead of 5-6 out of 11 when we are talking about his proleague games of this month? we are randomly going to exclude his win? but i guess this speaks to what im saying though, seeing how much one game drops his winning percentage - due to a very small sample size over a short period of time. why can't we just say "flash is not playing as incredible as he was couple weeks ago when he was winning 90% of his games?" nobody is slumping here.
On June 28 2010 19:11 OneOther wrote: i guess im just more lenient players when they lose. especially for guys like flash who have so pressure being the leader of his team and preparing for both msl/osl. in my opinion, he doesn't deserve to be called "slumping" yet. but if u want to consider anything less than winning 90% "slumping," feel free. however, he needs to lose over an extended period of time to be considered "slumping." give him some time until individual leagues / proleague playoffs.
If he goes <50% in individual leagues as well, then I believe we can call slump. Until then, only proleague performance isn't a total indicator of a slump. I guess i'm agreeing with you
yeah, that's what im saying. don't make the word "slumping" lose its meaning by calling a guy going 50-50 in past 9 games "slumping." jesus. and that was only a week after wining the osl title.
What? He's 4-6 in his last 10.
5-5 until tonight's game, which i forgot to count. so 5-6. does this matter? no lol. saying a guy going roughly 50% in a sample size of 10 games is slumping..hahahah. what has this world come to
5-6 would be last 11 games? He's 4-6, period, and has lost every ace match. He's also playing worse -- even if his opponents are playing better, he's been playing worse, too. 40% winrate for this month is bad. Going from FLASH to Killer in terms of winrate and ace match performance is pretty abysmal.
edit -- call it a minislump since it's only one month if you want but the drop in quality of most of his games and winrate is slump proportion.
see, i guess that's we differ. i don't really think that flash is playing worse in terms of actual games. also, what's the point of saying 4-6 out of 10 instead of 5-6 out of 11 when we are talking about his proleague games of this month? we are randomly going to exclude his win? but i guess this speaks to what im saying though, seeing how much one game drops his winning percentage - due to a very small sample size over a short period of time. why can't we just say "flash is not playing as incredible as he was couple weeks ago when he was winning 90% of his games?" nobody is slumping here.
I'm a pretty big Flash apologist but I can't just waive how badly he's been messing up in some games. It's not like six ace matches in a row is some irrelevant statistic. It's dismissive to say "He's just not winning 90% of his games" -- that could mean a lot. Winning 70% of his games qualifies just as much as 40% or 0%.
Also last 10 games isn't an arbitrary metric -- well maybe it is but it is a widely used and accepted arbitrary metric.
whatever, this isn't even worth arguing over. some of you just have ridiculous standards/definition of slumping. i like to reserve that word for players who are truly slumping. and this is based on not only the statistics but how they are playing in the games - i have watched all of his games and he is playing fine. very tight matches against solid players who prepared specifically for flash. so yeah, im gonna go to watch this game in fullscreen and go to sleep ggs
1. Play a TvP 2. Fail in FD push 3. Fail in Dropship harassing 4. Lose shittons of tanks to storms + dual reaver 5. Get recalled into your main 6. ???? 7. Destroy Protoss natural and force a GG. PROFIT!
Man, this is like a reverse Oz 1-3 loss. (Oz 1-3 loss with JD winning, KT wins 3-1 with Flash losing)
On June 28 2010 19:55 dtnmang wrote: 1. Play a TvP 2. Fail in FD push 3. Fail in Dropship harassing 4. Lose shittons of tanks to storms + dual reaver 5. Get recalled into your main 6. ???? 7. Destroy Protoss natural and force a GG. PROFIT!
Man, this is like a reverse Oz 1-3 loss. (Oz 1-3 loss with JD winning, KT wins 3-1 with Flash losing)
Forgg's first push worked great. He cut Guemchi's already low probe count, deflected his attempts at Reaver harass, and killed all of gchizzle's ground army. Losing a bunch of tanks didn't matter because he had triple that waiting behind.
edit- Oh does that little cup and show mean that KT is guaranteed #1 seed?
On June 28 2010 19:55 dtnmang wrote: 1. Play a TvP 2. Fail in FD push 3. Fail in Dropship harassing 4. Lose shittons of tanks to storms + dual reaver 5. Get recalled into your main 6. ???? 7. Destroy Protoss natural and force a GG. PROFIT!
Man, this is like a reverse Oz 1-3 loss. (Oz 1-3 loss with JD winning, KT wins 3-1 with Flash losing)
On June 28 2010 19:55 dtnmang wrote: 1. Play a TvP 2. Fail in FD push 3. Fail in Dropship harassing 4. Lose shittons of tanks to storms + dual reaver 5. Get recalled into your main 6. ???? 7. Destroy Protoss natural and force a GG. PROFIT!
Man, this is like a reverse Oz 1-3 loss. (Oz 1-3 loss with JD winning, KT wins 3-1 with Flash losing)
Isn't that what kt normally do, go 1-3 with flash winning? Edit: COOOOOOOOOOOOL TROPHEYYYYYYY
On June 28 2010 19:55 dtnmang wrote: 1. Play a TvP 2. Fail in FD push 3. Fail in Dropship harassing 4. Lose shittons of tanks to storms + dual reaver 5. Get recalled into your main 6. ???? 7. Destroy Protoss natural and force a GG. PROFIT!
Man, this is like a reverse Oz 1-3 loss. (Oz 1-3 loss with JD winning, KT wins 3-1 with Flash losing)
Isn't that what kt normally do, go 1-3 with flash winning?
Oh the irony <3
I dont even have to ask Plexa if Stats' CBNC gets promoted to a PR
On June 28 2010 19:55 dtnmang wrote: 1. Play a TvP 2. Fail in FD push 3. Fail in Dropship harassing 4. Lose shittons of tanks to storms + dual reaver 5. Get recalled into your main 6. ???? 7. Destroy Protoss natural and force a GG. PROFIT!
Man, this is like a reverse Oz 1-3 loss. (Oz 1-3 loss with JD winning, KT wins 3-1 with Flash losing)
On June 28 2010 20:02 TwoToneTerran wrote: So, at the very least, KT is going to get a silver this season.
rofl.
Yeah. The playoff structure is kind of skewed. But then that does make the regular season standings that much more important.
What I don't really get is why this many rounds are necessary. The performances of the teams change so much by the fifth round that the first round isn't relevant anymore.
On June 28 2010 20:06 TwoToneTerran wrote: In my imaginary wonderland, Flash has been losing intentionally to make KT step up in preparation for playoffs. Come on imaginary wonderland.
Hahaha, seriously.
I keep telling myself that Flash is hiding build orders and losing on purpose for the grand finale :3
On June 28 2010 20:02 TwoToneTerran wrote: So, at the very least, KT is going to get a silver this season.
rofl.
Yeah. The playoff structure is kind of skewed. But then that does make the regular season standings that much more important.
What I don't really get is why this many rounds are necessary. The performances of the teams change so much by the fifth round that the first round isn't relevant anymore.
Yes it does. KT has a horribly losing record this round, but their 10-1 in round one and round 3 has really carried them through most of their downtimes.
I mean the teams are obviously different beasts but the long development until the playoffs is a big deal. Certain teams crash and other rise. Look how close the race for the sixth and fifth slots has been this round!
On June 28 2010 20:02 TwoToneTerran wrote: So, at the very least, KT is going to get a silver this season.
rofl.
Yeah. The playoff structure is kind of skewed. But then that does make the regular season standings that much more important.
What I don't really get is why this many rounds are necessary. The performances of the teams change so much by the fifth round that the first round isn't relevant anymore.
Yes it does. KT has a horribly losing record this round, but their 10-1 in round one and round 3 has really carried them through most of their downtimes.
I mean the teams are obviously different beasts but the long development until the playoffs is a big deal. Certain teams crash and other rise. Look how close the race for the sixth and fifth slots has been this round!
First you say you disagree, then you reinforce his point.
I really would like it if the PL season was shorter, this is just too long and it'd be a lot more interesting if the PL finals were more often
On June 28 2010 20:13 alffla wrote: this is madnesss flash keeps losing T_T
THIS IS SPARTA!!! XD
U mean: This is Starcarft!!! Right?
har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har har
this is entirely my fault, I took Flash for my FPL and him and I were chatting over some lunch the other day and I just put too much pressure on him. When he flies over for homemade mongolian BBQ tonight I'll tell him I'm relieving him of his contract. Just in time for playoffs!
I've always said, a player's Bonjwa level is dependent on his hair dye
Jaedong was godmode when he had dyed hair back around WL '09.
Flash was godmode but now his dye is gone and he's looking more mortal recently, just like Jaedong did when his hair dye first wore off. The parallels are impossible to overlook!
First comes the streak of inconsistent mirror match-up... (JD when he lost to 815, Saint, etc., Flash with his streak of TvT ace losses) Then comes losses in the "hard" match-up (starting today for flash :O, JD's ZvT failstreak) Although he'll continue to be invincible in the "easy" match-up, TvZ.
YOU'LL SEE.
Clearly, when Bisu had his super saiyan hair he overdid it and the bonjwa-ness imploded on himself causing an epic slump. Now that he's back to regular brown-ish red hair, the same colour he had when he was dominant, he's bouncing back.
On June 28 2010 18:52 Scarecrow wrote: how is losing to free with carriers in an epic game on match point slumping?
pretty much this. Flash is still playing really well... just that everyone else has upped their game as well
lol yeah, i completely agree. until flash gets starts losing in individual leagues and fails in proleague playoffs, let's not throw the word "slumping" around like that. geeze...
I don't know what planet you're on but, regardless of the quality, Flash losing more games than he wins is a slump. It doesn't matter if everyone else in the world got better, compared to himself a month ago he's playing worse general games and losing more often than not.
It's not just THIS one game that's the reason, this just adds to it.
in my eyes he's playing just as well as he did. for example, flash nearly had that game but i have never seen free multitask and play this well in a long, long time. this was the case against a lot of his ace opponents, which was what the commentators were discussing the other day - how players suddenly to play so much better than they usually do against flash. his gameplay is just as strong and solid to me. his opponents have stepped it up. with preparation, however, i expect flash to dominate once again in individual leagues. he's in both msl and osl, leading his team to proleague playoffs, and is just fine. not winning 90% doesn't mean he's in a "slump" on all of a sudden. to me, "slump" means a drastic fall and collapse. dictionary.com agrees. and i can tell you that flash has not drastically collapsed. only difference might be that he has so many things on his plate right now that he doesn't have enough time to prepare for games. is he playing worse? no, not really.
im on planet earth btw. which one are u on?
The "He's just not winning 90% of his games!" argument is such crap. It's not that he's not winning as much, it's that he's losing a lot. He's losing games he shouldn't, making mistakes he shouldn't (He threw away 30 goliaths this game to dragoons and templars in the south, or those turrets, for instance -- The entire ace game vs Really, as well), and he's not leading KT to playoffs -- he was for the past four rounds, but for this entire month he has failed in the ace match, what, six times? Even when he was practicing specifically for ace against someone who wasn't? (vs Skyhigh, who played twice).
Flash is playing worse, and his winrate reflects that. It's nice that the quality of his opponent is improving but if he can't keep up then it's still a slump.
also oh shit I'm on Tallon IV
so going 50-50 in past nine games is a slump now? ROFL. and don't give me this "losing games he shouldn't have and making mistakes he shouldn't have." if you don't understand the game don't act like you do. he built those turrets to stall carriers at 12 while taking out his expos. why didn't it work? well, free simply played brilliantly this game. sometimes, you have to give his opponents some credit.
Going 90% winrate to 50% is basically the definition of a slump. If its severe or long lasting who knows but it certainly does qualify as a slump. We aren't talking Bisu levels here and of course, he's still playing well, but if its losing games he would be expected to win more often than not then its a slump.
On June 28 2010 23:36 SimonB wrote: Not when it's over ten games. Sample size people.
Not to mention these are hardly must-wins for KT.
The definition of slump doesn't include any necessary length. If Barcelona lost 5 out of 10 games in La Liga it would certainly be considered a slump. There's no suggestion that Flash is holding back for the games, his play is still good, and you can see he is visibly annoyed to lose so i don't think the situation for KT comes into it.
Well I'm glad KT FINALLY WON, and in a sense it's good that they won without Flash hope this is good practice and experience for Flash and KT Better to do bad now instead of failing when it matters. FLASH FIGHTING!!!
On June 28 2010 23:36 SimonB wrote: Not when it's over ten games. Sample size people.
Not to mention these are hardly must-wins for KT.
The definition of slump doesn't include any necessary length. If Barcelona lost 5 out of 10 games in La Liga it would certainly be considered a slump. There's no suggestion that Flash is holding back for the games, his play is still good, and you can see he is visibly annoyed to lose so i don't think the situation for KT comes into it.
10 matches in soccer is pretty different from 10 games in SC.
Statistically, even if you play at exactly the same level you normally play at to be at 80%, you will eventually run into a set of games where it will be 50%.
I don't know if Flash is playing at exactly that level, but declaring a slump in 10 games is just dumb.
On June 28 2010 23:36 SimonB wrote: Not when it's over ten games. Sample size people.
Not to mention these are hardly must-wins for KT.
It's 22 games though, he's 11-11 in his last 22 games. And as for importance. Besides his games against Jaedong only 2 of his wins ended up mattering, and conversely every loss except this one against Free lead to his team losing. And the "KT didn't need to win anyway" argument is silly. No one could have predicted STX to slump so hard, and if they didn't Flash would have lost KT's #1 spot by now. His series vs Jaedong was quite impressive, but it's just not enough to make up for all the stuff he has been losing otherwise.
Guys like Jaedong and Flash are held to higher standards than other people (and rightly so), and compared to those standards Flash is definitely in a slump.
Flash starts doing well and Bisu starts slumping. Bisu starts doing well and Flash starts slumping.
Edit, some dates: September 07 - Flash bursts onto the pro scene November 07 - Bisu loses GOM MSL 3 to Mind
September 08 - In a span of 2 weeks, Flash is eliminated from ClubDay MSL and Incruit OSL by Yarnc and GGPlay November 08 - Bisu wins ClubDay MSL February 08 - Bisu win GOMTV Classic Season 2
October 09 - Flash wins GOMTV Classic Season 3 November 09-May 10 - Flash shows a streak of domination qualifying for consecutive double finals while Bisu slumps hard and drops out of all leagues
June 10 - Bisu shows signs of resurgence, Flash shows signs of weakness
On June 28 2010 23:36 SimonB wrote: Not when it's over ten games. Sample size people.
Not to mention these are hardly must-wins for KT.
The definition of slump doesn't include any necessary length. If Barcelona lost 5 out of 10 games in La Liga it would certainly be considered a slump. There's no suggestion that Flash is holding back for the games, his play is still good, and you can see he is visibly annoyed to lose so i don't think the situation for KT comes into it.
first, please don't make cross-sport comparisons because they just don't work for various reasons. starcraft is a different animal. my main point is that it's just too damn premature to declare a slump for flash right now, when he has yet to play any games in his individual leagues and the proleague playoffs yet to start. saying that he's slumping because he went 50-50 in 10 games in less significant matches is absurd. KT is fine as it is even with recent losses, and we will see how flash does for the remainder when things start mattering a lot more. the word slump itself doesn't include a certain length, but when we use it sports, we usually refer it to an extended period of time of losing and playing bad. flash is neither. he's playing fine. period.
On June 28 2010 23:36 SimonB wrote: Not when it's over ten games. Sample size people.
Not to mention these are hardly must-wins for KT.
The definition of slump doesn't include any necessary length. If Barcelona lost 5 out of 10 games in La Liga it would certainly be considered a slump. There's no suggestion that Flash is holding back for the games, his play is still good, and you can see he is visibly annoyed to lose so i don't think the situation for KT comes into it.
first, please don't make cross-sport comparisons because they just don't work for various reasons.
Gotta disagree with you there. Conceptually, a cross-sport comparison is very much like a through ball. You don't seriously think through balls generally don't work, do you?
KT just needs an oil change on Flash.... Then his winrate will shoot back to 80-90% grats on the smug toss, chin toss, and Han timing. All we need is hoejja stop being an inconsistent player and KT will pwn everyone
i calculated the probability that over 22 games he goes 50% assuming he has average of 66% winrate normally. it comes out to 3.7% chance that it is just variance
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/keit/r5proleaguebanner.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/6.jpg)
vs ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/2.jpg)
Soulkey < Judgment Day > 
Tempest
Flash![[image loading]](http://www.vintagelibrary.com/pulp/covers/captain-zero/captain_zero_1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i47.tinypic.com/2prwsht.gif)
![[image loading]](http://fomos.kr/board/issue/1277722604_1.jpg)
