I was really hoping to see Jaedong's ZvP, but Best is already out of the equation. And considering Bisu's poor form lately, it's not even a guarantee that they'll play him. Hopefully, we get to see either Jaedong vs. Bisu or Fantasy. Just not another JvZ please.
Fuck battle? Slide show? Lag? BeSt with some really good storms. BeSt takes the battle after the lag subsides! Wait actually it was close... BeSt not pushing in more.
Hugeass battle in the center...both sides lose a lot of stuff but Best is streaming zealots out now! I think he's just going to check for any other expansions.
Perfectman luckily has a 4th island expansion that can't be touched by zealots
best now closing on perfectman's bases, after taking out 2 waves of forces with great epic storms (and denying an expo due to lack of map control on perfectman's part)
Perfectman losing his third....they are briefly on same bases but Best is taking this opportunity to expand. He has the bigger army, and I doubt Perfectman can defend....
the thing about playing vs best is that ... if you don't do a good timing attack or harass enough and give him the time to get his 3rd ... you're basically playing Defend your base with stream after stream of goons and lots
Am I the only one having trouble with Kentor's stream? I've tried zeroboy and livestream but it just sits there with the loading icon spinning. The chat says 'disconnected'. Yet I can view the other game's streams just fine.
On May 05 2010 13:31 renzy wrote: Yea, it was 4 vs 3 for a short period of time. But Best's 4th was up as well.
BeSt had a third up a lot faster since PM didn't take the island for a frustratingly long time. Perfectman took a fourth but BeSt attacked pretty quickly after it went up.
Bisu researching goon range after his first gateway...gets his 2nd gateway Lomo getting his factory and manages to get an scv into Bisu's base, while completely preventing Bisu's scout into his...
On May 05 2010 13:45 Random_0 wrote: Bisu playing ultra-safe. Good for him.
What I remember Kingdom saying though that it was his ultra-safe/conservative play that was a factor in him being stomped so much these days. People are just able to take advantage of his play now.
Ouch, shuttle gets owned before it can bomb. Lomo's contain is pretty devastating. Slowlots getting blown away... Simultaneously, a vulture kills shit at 9.
Lomo camping outside Bisu's expansion with a turret, a few tanks and vultures. The mines are really slowing down the dragoons, and reinforcement vultures come in. Bisu not in a very good position
I think bisu's strat of cutting off reinforcements with his entire army was a bad idea. Granted, I couldn't really see what was going on b/c of a lousy stream (probably on my end; not insulting the streamers at all), but he needed to slow down the push with his army and just have a few units intercepting reinforcements.
On May 05 2010 14:03 flamewheel91 wrote: Gdit. For future reference, does anybody know how to type n.Die_soO's name so that it will TLPDize?
Yeah, you have to TLPD-ize soO (into toss), look up soO's real page (the zerg), edit the TLPDized number for protoss Soo, replace P with Z, then submit... it's a bitch. Hopefully there's an easier way haha
Oh shit now he micros. Sexy. Scourge are dead, though he takes one hit. Now some battles. Jaedong with one muta left. Now two lings killing drones! WTF AD BREAK.
Panic and shock spread through the crowd as a sweet looking couple do not hide their heads in shame when shown on tv. The camera lingers on them for a while.
fantasy taking his expansion earlier, throwing down two more factories as his scouting barracks is whittled down. Fanta knows he's ahead though, he scouted all the important parts of HiyA's base.
Wraith out for fantasy, HiyA building SciFac. Oh and fantasy taking bottom left. Wraith out for HiyA as well now. Single vulture attacking stalled CC at bottom left while SCV there builds a turret.
fantasy with one wraith takes out a dropship before it's chased away by two of HiyA's wraiths. HiyA happy with the map split, just mining the perimeter. Expect to see the obs view flashing to mass starports any time now.
HiyA scans dropships loading, pushing out now. Hmmm. A few tanks die for each side, then fantasy reloads. Dropships going top right, it seems. Ooh yay FPview. I saw fantasy's FPView of Scifac+physics lab!
both of them have over 180 popn. This map splits too easily for tvt. Not like roadrunner encouraging a lot of drop play. I can see tvts on this map going to BCs often.
On May 05 2010 14:43 moopie wrote: Quote this part out please?
WTF?
Bottom left dropped!
What better way to suicide your ground army than to take something out with it, eh? CC lifted, two BCs are in to take out the tanks. And by two I mean seven.
On May 05 2010 14:50 7 wrote: why didn't Hiya lift that CC....
he knew he was going to lose that base, and at this point in the game mining gas is most important. he can just float a cc from a base with a depleted geyser, if/when he needs to retake that base.
On May 05 2010 14:50 7 wrote: why didn't Hiya lift that CC....
he knew he was going to lose that base, and at this point in the game mining gas is most important. he can just float a cc from a base with a depleted geyser, if/when he needs to retake that base.
I mean, it wouldn't have hurt him. I think the simple answer is: he was doing something else, and he was wary of a trap from fantasy to force another engagement.
fantasy working on 2/3 of the map by now, cleaning up HiyA's most productive base at 1. HiYa's bcs are lost in the wilderness.
On May 05 2010 14:57 tree.hugger wrote: Battlecruisers engage, for a moment, it looks like HiyA has the upper hand... But then fantasy wins with five bcs to spare. GG from HiyA.
HUGE PROBLEM HERE: This last game makes a fantasy v. Jaedong epic ace match a little unlikely...
lol, Jaedong vs fantasy ACE match!!!
Jaedong on my main, fantasy on my anti. Either I do well in FPL, or my team explodes.
Dammit fantasy. Not enough mines, and in the wrong places. Someday this build will work out for you.
On May 05 2010 15:16 JWD wrote: did Fantasy even practice this build??? how did he plan to defend this?
Mines should've done better than they did. Fanta tried that build against Calm, and Calm put together a neat little overlord highway (In one of the newsposts, if you remember) and rolled him. But this time fantasty sniped two overlords, but didn't get good mines down.
Zekk: no.... EENIMEENIMINEEMO: DAMN FCK ME PLZ UP THE BUTTHOLE munkey: ah gg ghote: GEE GEE GEE GEE BABY BABY BABY Magus: =D ZurglingRash: self mine drag in to gg... Havoc: you got *** up yo brick_losnor: Jay Jaaaaaaay
I imagine Fantasy Oov and Boxer come up with these really clever builds and then they demolish the SKT Zergs and go "Boy that's awesome I'll use that one on Jaedong." and then they realize Jaedong isn't an SKT zerg after the match.
On May 05 2010 15:17 Divine[aX] wrote: A rather odd build attempted by Fantasy.
I think the vultures/mines were supposed to prevent early hydra attack? Should have been np given that since Fantasy sniped the OLs Jaedong had no detection.
Only one problem: for whatever reason Fantasy only planted one mine on the path to his base, and then just suicided all his vults into hydra.
On May 05 2010 15:17 Divine[aX] wrote: A rather odd build attempted by Fantasy.
I think the vultures/mines were supposed to prevent early hydra attack? Should have been np given that since Fantasy sniped the OLs Jaedong had no detection.
Only one problem: for whatever reason Fantasy only planted one mine on the path to his base, and then just suicided all his vults into hydra.
such poor execution
Essentially. One vult went too far and got picked off.
Honestly it's not a terrible idea, but without predetermined line-ups, I'd imagine fantasy's time to practice that build on his two maps is a little short. I'll predict that we'll see that build again in... two weeks, and it'll work to perfection.
showing replay of the mine…lol it's even worse on second view. Fantasy groups up all his SCVs and then just plants a mine right on top of them. Instant loss (though he probably wouldn't have been able to defend anyway). Duhhhhh
On May 05 2010 15:19 Holgerius wrote: I really don't know whether to laugh or cry at that stupidity. Fantasy is so fucking retarded sometimes all the time.
Sometimes his stupidity baffles even his opponents and that's why he wins.
On May 05 2010 15:18 TwoToneTerran wrote: I imagine Fantasy Oov and Boxer come up with these really clever builds and then they demolish the SKT Zergs and go "Boy that's awesome I'll use that one on Jaedong." and then they realize Jaedong isn't an SKT zerg after the match.
What did Jaedong do here tho? Just go hydras and attack. Fantasy's mines were supposed to scout, and he failed to put one where he could see Jaedong moving out. Fail.
On May 05 2010 15:19 Holgerius wrote: I really don't know whether to laugh or cry at that stupidity. Fantasy is so fucking retarded sometimes all the time.
Sometimes his stupidity baffles even his opponents and that's why he wins.
On May 05 2010 15:18 TwoToneTerran wrote: I imagine Fantasy Oov and Boxer come up with these really clever builds and then they demolish the SKT Zergs and go "Boy that's awesome I'll use that one on Jaedong." and then they realize Jaedong isn't an SKT zerg after the match.
What did Jaedong do here tho? Just go hydras and attack. Fantasy's mines were supposed to scout, and he failed to put one where he could see Jaedong moving out. Fail.
On May 05 2010 15:17 Divine[aX] wrote: A rather odd build attempted by Fantasy.
I think the vultures/mines were supposed to prevent early hydra attack? Should have been np given that since Fantasy sniped the OLs Jaedong had no detection.
Only one problem: for whatever reason Fantasy only planted one mine on the path to his base, and then just suicided all his vults into hydra.
On May 05 2010 15:18 TwoToneTerran wrote: I imagine Fantasy Oov and Boxer come up with these really clever builds and then they demolish the SKT Zergs and go "Boy that's awesome I'll use that one on Jaedong." and then they realize Jaedong isn't an SKT zerg after the match.
What did Jaedong do here tho? Just go hydras and attack. Fantasy's mines were supposed to scout, and he failed to put one where he could see Jaedong moving out. Fail.
Exactly, if he had better scouting his bunker would have been up way earlier instead of having to pull scvs to block ramp to buy time for it, which led to the epic mine explosion.
On May 05 2010 15:21 Count9 wrote: Yeah, game 5 should definitely be recommended; it's like watching 2 trains collide, it's horrific but somewhat exciting.
It's like watching two trains start moving on a collision course, except that one train is missing the last half of its track.
On May 05 2010 15:18 TwoToneTerran wrote: I imagine Fantasy Oov and Boxer come up with these really clever builds and then they demolish the SKT Zergs and go "Boy that's awesome I'll use that one on Jaedong." and then they realize Jaedong isn't an SKT zerg after the match.
What did Jaedong do here tho? Just go hydras and attack. Fantasy's mines were supposed to scout, and he failed to put one where he could see Jaedong moving out. Fail.
On May 05 2010 15 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 05 2010 15 end_of_the_skype_highlighting:20 Inkblood wrote: That was a pretty epic mine.
Overlord snipes didn't do him much good in the end, even if they were well executed in themselves.
Yeah, at least the first snipe gave away his whole build with the flying rax, JD didn't even have to worry 2 seconds about bio. 2nd was great though, but maybe he should use those apm for something different, like building units and stuff
On May 05 2010 15:22 motbob wrote: Why is no one else mentioning that Fantasy used the exact same build against Calm and lost in the exact same way?
I did, maybe cuz not many people watched it. Although to be fair, Fantasy did snipe ovies so JD couldn't read form that highway. But he didn't plant mines correctly ><
On May 05 2010 15:21 Count9 wrote: Yeah, game 5 should definitely be recommended; it's like watching 2 trains collide, it's horrific but somewhat exciting.
It's like watching two trains start moving on a collision course, except that one train is missing the last half of its track.
It's more like one train flying down a track at about 70 mph, and the other train on a seperate track that ends directly in front of the grand canyon traveling at 100 mph.
On May 05 2010 15:22 motbob wrote: Why is no one else mentioning that Fantasy used the exact same build against Calm and lost in the exact same way?
EDIT:
On May 05 2010 15:17 Avidkeystamper wrote: Well, I thought after the game against Calm on Fighting Spirit, Fantasy wouldn't lose to this again. But guess not, GO Jaedong! ^__^
On May 05 2010 15:16 tree.hugger wrote: Mines should've done better than they did. Fanta tried that build against Calm, and Calm put together a neat little overlord highway (In one of the newsposts, if you remember) and rolled him. But this time fantasty sniped two overlords, but didn't get good mines down.
And got rolled.
I'm so wise.
But he lost in a different way; the first time, Calm made a neat little move and took advantage. In this game, fantasy deliberately tried to prevent that by overlord sniping. But he couldn't hold together the other end of the bargain.
Even if that mine didn't take the ramp I don't think Fantasy could of won. Did you see how many hydras were streaming towards his base? There was a lottt off 3 hatch.
We need a gif/SS of the mine AND JDs ceremony after the game please.
On May 05 2010 15:18 TwoToneTerran wrote: I imagine Fantasy Oov and Boxer come up with these really clever builds and then they demolish the SKT Zergs and go "Boy that's awesome I'll use that one on Jaedong." and then they realize Jaedong isn't an SKT zerg after the match.
What did Jaedong do here tho? Just go hydras and attack. Fantasy's mines were supposed to scout, and he failed to put one where he could see Jaedong moving out. Fail.
Well, Jaedong did trigger that mine on purpose.
Hm, yeah. That's not related to my point though.
The way you said it just made it look like Fantasy simply committed suicided and Jaedong just watched
lifting rax to kill overlord also lead to very low rine count and thus dependent on purely mines to hold jaedong off. very dangeroud build imo as jaedong could just diffuse with a few lings.
On May 05 2010 15:26 On_Slaught wrote: Even if that mine didn't take the ramp I don't think Fantasy could of won. Did you see how many hydras were streaming towards his base? There was a lottt off 3 hatch.
We need a gif/SS of the mine AND JDs ceremony after the game please.
Agreed, somebody get on that~
On May 05 2010 15:22 InTheFade wrote: Lomo and JD having a lot of winner's interviews together lately. Good to see, Oz slightly more functional these days. Slightly.
This saddens me to no end. Bisu keeps failing. Whatever happens, I swear there will not come a day when I cheer him just because he made out of a League's offline prelims or won a random proleague match. Damn it Bisu, you're a champion and I'm going to maintain my high expectations from you.
Fantasy failed hilariously. There are days like that, though I guess it must be pretty horrible to live through them when a lot of people depend on you and your actions are being broadcasted on television. And it started off so well too.
No clue why people are congratulating Jaedong though. Didn't Fantasy lose that game entirely by his own actions? Listen, there may come a day when Jaedong fails as hard as Bisu is failing right now, and you may feel the need to cheer for any kind of win he can get, but that day hasn't come yet. You can still expect better from him.
On May 05 2010 15:30 Fanatic-Templar wrote: This saddens me to no end. Bisu keeps failing. Whatever happens, I swear there will not come a day when I cheer him just because he made out of a League's offline prelims or won a random proleague match. Damn it Bisu, you're a champion and I'm going to maintain my high expectations from you.
Fantasy failed hilariously. There are days like that, though I guess it must be pretty horrible to live through them when a lot of people depend on you and your actions are being broadcasted on television. And it started off so well too.
No clue why people are congratulating Jaedong though. Didn't Fantasy lose that game entirely by his own actions? Listen, there may come a day when Jaedong fails as hard as Bisu is failing right now, and you may feel the need to cheer for any kind of win he can get, but that day hasn't come yet. You can still expect better from him.
Did you watch the game? Jaedong sent a single hydra on purpose up the ramp to pull the mine; it was an active choice on his part. Also even after losing 2 ovies JD still macroed well enough to have 6 hydras at his door before he knew what was happening (tho fant's shitty build helps this work).
There hasn't been a game in history where somebody lost "entirely by his own actions" except for the time Idra cancelled his own CC into gg.
On May 05 2010 15:30 Fanatic-Templar wrote: No clue why people are congratulating Jaedong though. Didn't Fantasy lose that game entirely by his own actions? Listen, there may come a day when Jaedong fails as hard as Bisu is failing right now, and you may feel the need to cheer for any kind of win he can get, but that day hasn't come yet. You can still expect better from him.
he still had to win the game, its not a no brainer. the decision he made was to push and that in itself is brave with all the possibilities of mines allover your hydras.
a win is a win, if the game was so easily won why dont some of the skt fanboys try to pull that vs fantasy, it was a game where he lost himself right?
Jaedong did micro his hydras perfectly, including the mine drag. Fantasy didn't just lose by his own actions, but still: he was taken by surprise by a massive hydra bust and couldn't realize before they were at his door (read: ramp). This is basically GG when you do a build where you don't have any marines or tanks out at that stage.
Even if Jaedong hadn't mine dragged, Fantasy would have lost a ton of SCVs at the very least. Way too early into the game.
On May 05 2010 15:18 TwoToneTerran wrote: I imagine Fantasy Oov and Boxer come up with these really clever builds and then they demolish the SKT Zergs and go "Boy that's awesome I'll use that one on Jaedong." and then they realize Jaedong isn't an SKT zerg after the match.
On May 05 2010 15:30 Fanatic-Templar wrote: This saddens me to no end. Bisu keeps failing. Whatever happens, I swear there will not come a day when I cheer him just because he made out of a League's offline prelims or won a random proleague match. Damn it Bisu, you're a champion and I'm going to maintain my high expectations from you.
Fantasy failed hilariously. There are days like that, though I guess it must be pretty horrible to live through them when a lot of people depend on you and your actions are being broadcasted on television. And it started off so well too.
No clue why people are congratulating Jaedong though. Didn't Fantasy lose that game entirely by his own actions? Listen, there may come a day when Jaedong fails as hard as Bisu is failing right now, and you may feel the need to cheer for any kind of win he can get, but that day hasn't come yet. You can still expect better from him.
Did you watch the game? Jaedong sent a single hydra on purpose up the ramp to pull the mine; it was an active choice on his part. Also even after losing 2 ovies JD still macroed well enough to have 6 hydras at his door before he knew what was happening (tho fant's shitty build helps this work).
There hasn't been a game in history where somebody lost "entirely by his own actions" except for the time Idra cancelled his own CC into gg.
It's like congratulating Really for Jaehoon's fail Recall. Maybe I'm unimpressed because destroying Terrans with their own mines is a fact of life for Protoss and not worth special notice. I don't know. I guess if you were impressed, you were impressed and that's that, I just don't get it myself.
I'm not saying that Jaedong didn't play fine, or that he didn't deserve the win, but people seemed to genuinely think that this was impressive from him, which seems like some pretty low expectations for someone of Jaedong's talent.
On May 05 2010 15:43 PoP wrote: Jaedong did micro his hydras perfectly, including the mine drag. Fantasy didn't just lose by his own actions, but still: he was taken by surprise by a massive hydra bust and couldn't realize before they were at his door (read: ramp). This is basically GG when you do a build where you don't have any marines or tanks out at that stage.
Even if Jaedong hadn't mine dragged, Fantasy would have lost a ton of SCVs at the very least. Way too early into the game.
Fair enough statement, but still JD put off a lot of drones to make those hydras
K, this isn't a case of Fantasy completely failing or Jaedong completely dominating. It's a case of Fantasy completely failing AND Jaedong completely taking advantage of it.
JD did a really great job bouncing back after losing the first two ovies, but after that, it was pretty much fantafail into gg, I don't think we can credit JD's genius or anything, he just did a good job of raping a man offering up his ass.
Fantasy has these really really clever and smart tactics (the double ovie kill was undoubtedly planned and practiced, probably by Boxer/OoV lol)... but he gets waaayy too tangled up in them and fails miserably. Makes me wonder what would happen if Flash was in SKT1... my god... that would be ridiculous in so many ways lol.
On May 05 2010 16:51 Wings wrote: K, this isn't a case of Fantasy completely failing or Jaedong completely dominating. It's a case of Fantasy completely failing AND Jaedong completely taking advantage of it.
JD did a really great job bouncing back after losing the first two ovies, but after that, it was pretty much fantafail into gg, I don't think we can credit JD's genius or anything, he just did a good job of raping a man offering up his ass.
Fantasy has these really really clever and smart tactics (the double ovie kill was undoubtedly planned and practiced, probably by Boxer/OoV lol)... but he gets waaayy too tangled up in them and fails miserably. Makes me wonder what would happen if Flash was in SKT1... my god... that would be ridiculous in so many ways lol.
Quick! Someone get a PD onto this, we'll call it "Flash goes to SKT1", it'll be an awesome gag series.
Flash: Sup Boxer Hyung Boxer: Go away KT scum, go away Flash: Whut? Why? Boxer: My cheese beat you lawlawlawl Flash: That was not fair T.T Oov: All's fair in Proleague and TvT. Now shoo! And tell your coach he still has to make-up for the last time you guys tried to buy me, it gave me a lot of bad press. Fantasy: It's not fair when the person you play is Flash *sad* *Flash ignores Fantasy* Boxer: Don't worry Myung Hoon, I'll school this guy hard for you Flash: But I came here to learn! Fantasy: (to Oov) Let's accept him hyung, he's my clan mate and I want to learn from him (to Flash) Right, Young Ho? ^-^ *Flash doesn't bat an eyelid, continues to ignore Fantasy* Boxer: Alright, alright. For the sake of ESPORTS and air-time for me on TV. Oov: ... you know I love you right, Boxer hyung? I'll do anything for you! Even if I have to teach this little monster. Fantasy: Yeahh! Now we can be together, like in the old days! *Puppy eyes at Flash* Flash: ...Thank you Boxer & Oov hyung *ignores fantasy and walks off* Fantasy: Why is Young Ho so cold ? Boxer: You didn't shake his hand, dumbass.
On May 05 2010 16:51 Wings wrote: K, this isn't a case of Fantasy completely failing or Jaedong completely dominating. It's a case of Fantasy completely failing AND Jaedong completely taking advantage of it.
JD did a really great job bouncing back after losing the first two ovies, but after that, it was pretty much fantafail into gg, I don't think we can credit JD's genius or anything, he just did a good job of raping a man offering up his ass.
Fantasy has these really really clever and smart tactics (the double ovie kill was undoubtedly planned and practiced, probably by Boxer/OoV lol)... but he gets waaayy too tangled up in them and fails miserably. Makes me wonder what would happen if Flash was in SKT1... my god... that would be ridiculous in so many ways lol.
Quick! Someone get a PD onto this, we'll call it "Flash goes to SKT1", it'll be an awesome gag series.
Flash: Sup Boxer Hyung Boxer: Go away KT scum, go away Flash: Whut? Why? Boxer: My cheese beat you lawlawlawl Flash: That was not fair T.T Oov: All's fair in Proleague and TvT. Now shoo! And tell your coach he still has to make-up for the last time you guys tried to buy me, it gave me a lot of bad press. Fantasy: It's not fair when the person you play is Flash *sad* *Flash ignores Fantasy* Boxer: Don't worry Myung Hoon, I'll school this guy hard for you Flash: But I came here to learn! Fantasy: (to Oov) Let's accept him hyung, he's my clan mate and I want to learn from him (to Flash) Right, Young Ho? ^-^ *Flash doesn't bat an eyelid, continues to ignore Fantasy* Boxer: Alright, alright. For the sake of ESPORTS and air-time for me on TV. Oov: ... you know I love you right, Boxer hyung? I'll do anything for you! Even if I have to teach this little monster. Fantasy: Yeahh! Now we can be together, like in the old days! *Puppy eyes at Flash* Flash: ...Thank you Boxer & Oov hyung *ignores fantasy and walks off* Fantasy: Why is Young Ho so cold ? Boxer: You didn't shake his hand, dumbass.
They are usually available right away. Just need Daum player to watch them. I usually download them first to avoid streaming issues. Works great for me anyway! ^_*
Yea really want Jaedong to get back to his old form. Imagine Jaedong and Flash squaring off in the most epic of games...I wanted to include Bisu in this but unfortunately it looks like the ol'boy aint ever gona drag himself out from this hold he's in.
On May 06 2010 00:39 Emon_ wrote: Remember when 12-hatch was considered risky? How about 3 hatch before pool!? Terran should counter this by expanding twice from the start etc. etc.
On May 05 2010 15:43 PoP wrote: Jaedong did micro his hydras perfectly, including the mine drag. Fantasy didn't just lose by his own actions, but still: he was taken by surprise by a massive hydra bust and couldn't realize before they were at his door (read: ramp). This is basically GG when you do a build where you don't have any marines or tanks out at that stage.
Even if Jaedong hadn't mine dragged, Fantasy would have lost a ton of SCVs at the very least. Way too early into the game.
He would certainly have stalled for his bunker, and possibly his tank. He also would've had an unexploded mine at the ramp, that would've claimed at least a hydralisk if Jaedong tried to run up there. Jaedong had no lair, remember. fantasy forced him all-in, and if he holds there, he can certainly recover.
I actually think fantasy showed some good game sense in this game, he didn't plant enough mines, and he planted that one mine too close to his ramp, but at the same time, he immediately recognized the severity of his situation, and compensated by pulling so many scvs, which was completely appropriate. He got them to the ramp just in time, which is where you'd want to make that stand, anyway.
We also have to take into account how quickly Jaedong read that build. I don't think there are any other zergs who would've responded so quickly, decisively, and correctly to that strategy. I think that if Jaedong had simply gone for a lair/mutas, he would've been in real trouble. And if Jaedong hadn't gone three hatch before pool, I think fantasy would've had enough mines in the way, and a tank out.
That game was a lot more interesting and well played by both players, honestly, than people are giving them credit for. One player played a deadly strategy and made two mistakes, while the other played perfectly.
On May 05 2010 15:43 PoP wrote: Jaedong did micro his hydras perfectly, including the mine drag. Fantasy didn't just lose by his own actions, but still: he was taken by surprise by a massive hydra bust and couldn't realize before they were at his door (read: ramp). This is basically GG when you do a build where you don't have any marines or tanks out at that stage.
Even if Jaedong hadn't mine dragged, Fantasy would have lost a ton of SCVs at the very least. Way too early into the game.
He would certainly have stalled for his bunker, and possibly his tank. He also would've had an unexploded mine at the ramp, that would've claimed at least a hydralisk if Jaedong tried to run up there. Jaedong had no lair, remember. fantasy forced him all-in, and if he holds there, he can certainly recover.
I actually think fantasy showed some good game sense in this game, he didn't plant enough mines, and he planted that one mine too close to his ramp, but at the same time, he immediately recognized the severity of his situation, and compensated by pulling so many scvs, which was completely appropriate. He got them to the ramp just in time, which is where you'd want to make that stand, anyway.
We also have to take into account how quickly Jaedong read that build. I don't think there are any other zergs who would've responded so quickly, decisively, and correctly to that strategy. I think that if Jaedong had simply gone for a lair/mutas, he would've been in real trouble. And if Jaedong hadn't gone three hatch before pool, I think fantasy would've had enough mines in the way, and a tank out.
That game was a lot more interesting and well played by both players, honestly, than people are giving them credit for. One player played a deadly strategy and made two mistakes, while the other played perfectly.
There isn't much 1 marine in a bunker can do. If he mass repairs, hydras just kill the scvs
On May 05 2010 15:43 PoP wrote: Jaedong did micro his hydras perfectly, including the mine drag. Fantasy didn't just lose by his own actions, but still: he was taken by surprise by a massive hydra bust and couldn't realize before they were at his door (read: ramp). This is basically GG when you do a build where you don't have any marines or tanks out at that stage.
Even if Jaedong hadn't mine dragged, Fantasy would have lost a ton of SCVs at the very least. Way too early into the game.
He would certainly have stalled for his bunker, and possibly his tank. He also would've had an unexploded mine at the ramp, that would've claimed at least a hydralisk if Jaedong tried to run up there. Jaedong had no lair, remember. fantasy forced him all-in, and if he holds there, he can certainly recover.
I actually think fantasy showed some good game sense in this game, he didn't plant enough mines, and he planted that one mine too close to his ramp, but at the same time, he immediately recognized the severity of his situation, and compensated by pulling so many scvs, which was completely appropriate. He got them to the ramp just in time, which is where you'd want to make that stand, anyway.
We also have to take into account how quickly Jaedong read that build. I don't think there are any other zergs who would've responded so quickly, decisively, and correctly to that strategy. I think that if Jaedong had simply gone for a lair/mutas, he would've been in real trouble. And if Jaedong hadn't gone three hatch before pool, I think fantasy would've had enough mines in the way, and a tank out.
That game was a lot more interesting and well played by both players, honestly, than people are giving them credit for. One player played a deadly strategy and made two mistakes, while the other played perfectly.
There isn't much 1 marine in a bunker can do. If he mass repairs, hydras just kill the scvs
Again, I'm speculating as to what would've happened had fantasy not misplaced the mine at the ramp.
He had three marines, I believe, one was killed in the mine explosion, and the other that was killed in the retreat from the ramp. I think the third came from the barracks, although my memory is sketchy, he may only have had two. Keep in mind as well, that if fantasy doesn't misplace that mine, then the mine instead kills a a few hydras that are coming up the ramp. If fantasy can delay for a few more seconds, he also has a tank coming which should help in the defense.
I think it was possible for fantasy to hold that attack at his natural, and if he does, he can win because Jaedong was all-in on that attack.
On May 05 2010 15:43 PoP wrote: Jaedong did micro his hydras perfectly, including the mine drag. Fantasy didn't just lose by his own actions, but still: he was taken by surprise by a massive hydra bust and couldn't realize before they were at his door (read: ramp). This is basically GG when you do a build where you don't have any marines or tanks out at that stage.
Even if Jaedong hadn't mine dragged, Fantasy would have lost a ton of SCVs at the very least. Way too early into the game.
He would certainly have stalled for his bunker, and possibly his tank. He also would've had an unexploded mine at the ramp, that would've claimed at least a hydralisk if Jaedong tried to run up there. Jaedong had no lair, remember. fantasy forced him all-in, and if he holds there, he can certainly recover.
I actually think fantasy showed some good game sense in this game, he didn't plant enough mines, and he planted that one mine too close to his ramp, but at the same time, he immediately recognized the severity of his situation, and compensated by pulling so many scvs, which was completely appropriate. He got them to the ramp just in time, which is where you'd want to make that stand, anyway.
We also have to take into account how quickly Jaedong read that build. I don't think there are any other zergs who would've responded so quickly, decisively, and correctly to that strategy. I think that if Jaedong had simply gone for a lair/mutas, he would've been in real trouble. And if Jaedong hadn't gone three hatch before pool, I think fantasy would've had enough mines in the way, and a tank out.
That game was a lot more interesting and well played by both players, honestly, than people are giving them credit for. One player played a deadly strategy and made two mistakes, while the other played perfectly.
lol, definitely this.
people have to be told these sorts of things, though. they can't see them themselves.
On May 05 2010 15:43 PoP wrote: Jaedong did micro his hydras perfectly, including the mine drag. Fantasy didn't just lose by his own actions, but still: he was taken by surprise by a massive hydra bust and couldn't realize before they were at his door (read: ramp). This is basically GG when you do a build where you don't have any marines or tanks out at that stage.
Even if Jaedong hadn't mine dragged, Fantasy would have lost a ton of SCVs at the very least. Way too early into the game.
He would certainly have stalled for his bunker, and possibly his tank. He also would've had an unexploded mine at the ramp, that would've claimed at least a hydralisk if Jaedong tried to run up there. Jaedong had no lair, remember. fantasy forced him all-in, and if he holds there, he can certainly recover.
I actually think fantasy showed some good game sense in this game, he didn't plant enough mines, and he planted that one mine too close to his ramp, but at the same time, he immediately recognized the severity of his situation, and compensated by pulling so many scvs, which was completely appropriate. He got them to the ramp just in time, which is where you'd want to make that stand, anyway.
We also have to take into account how quickly Jaedong read that build. I don't think there are any other zergs who would've responded so quickly, decisively, and correctly to that strategy. I think that if Jaedong had simply gone for a lair/mutas, he would've been in real trouble. And if Jaedong hadn't gone three hatch before pool, I think fantasy would've had enough mines in the way, and a tank out.
That game was a lot more interesting and well played by both players, honestly, than people are giving them credit for. One player played a deadly strategy and made two mistakes, while the other played perfectly.
There isn't much 1 marine in a bunker can do. If he mass repairs, hydras just kill the scvs
Again, I'm speculating as to what would've happened had fantasy not misplaced the mine at the ramp.
He had three marines, I believe, one was killed in the mine explosion, and the other that was killed in the retreat from the ramp. I think the third came from the barracks, although my memory is sketchy, he may only have had two. Keep in mind as well, that if fantasy doesn't misplace that mine, then the mine instead kills a a few hydras that are coming up the ramp. If fantasy can delay for a few more seconds, he also has a tank coming which should help in the defense.
I think it was possible for fantasy to hold that attack at his natural, and if he does, he can win because Jaedong was all-in on that attack.
Lets wait till the VOD, but I'm pretty sure that when JD was at the ramp, I thought right off the bat "Fantasy is in trouble, he's gonna lose a bunch of SCV which is gonna set him back alot". JD had vision of the ramp too (he dragged the mine on purpose), so even if fantasy didnt misplace it, JD would probably have dodged it.
If it wasnt for that mine, Fantasy might have lived a bit longer.
i'm not sure if it was on the VOD that was posted on youtube, but i watched it through the GOM player. was the little kid jaedong's brother or something? sorry if it's really someone obvious lolol i haven't been keeping up with sc much lately
Lifting your rax to spot an overlord is like saying "look! I'm meching!" Great control by JD nonetheless. Fantasy needs a new gimmick. He can always lrn2p, like Flash who was once also a gimmicky cheeser.
What I don't understand was why Fantasy continued into dropship tech after seeing the 3rd hatch morphing. It looked like he was confident the mines and the two sniped OLs would buy him enough time but then again I don't think he anticipated to lose 2-3 vults just because of positioning.
JD seems just like an awesome person. Not in a nice/friendly way... just seems so fuckin baller. And this is coming from a Flash fan. If this was a mafia movie JD would be Mob Boss and Flash would be some nice little humble cop... who happens to be a fucking SAMURAI WARRIOR / Ninja Assassin / Terminator#9001 by night.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/keit/pl_round4.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/11.jpg)
vs ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/teams/1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/flamewheel91/th_GrandLine.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/flamewheel91/th_FightingSpirit.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/flamewheel91/th_Roadrunner.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/flamewheel91/th_PolarisRhapsody.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i932.photobucket.com/albums/ad164/flamewheel91/th_MatchPoint.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/6097/ohnoes.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a451/koreangosu/bisu.jpg?t=1273034370)
![[image loading]](http://i42.tinypic.com/73cnci.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i37.tinypic.com/208xrx2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kyd2kchvhv1qziykqo1_100.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i44.tinypic.com/3012e60.gif)
![[image loading]](http://i41.tinypic.com/eanj43.gif)
