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On January 26 2010 21:22 StylishVODs wrote:
7mk, im not acting like its a fact. Thats just what i believe would have happened based on what I saw.
Other people might be of different oppinion but I think jaedong powered his econ just a bit too much and wasnt expecting flash to be able to do what he did after jaedongs early advantage.
well thats a reasonable opinion, I just really disliked the way you put it in your last paragraph .
(the "simply put jd woulda been on 2 gas".. part)
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On January 26 2010 21:24 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2010 21:19 StylishVODs wrote:On January 26 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On January 26 2010 21:11 StylishVODs wrote:
It was a mistake but he would still have lost both his expansions. His expansions wasn't defended, how can you not see this? It would not have been over if jaedong had consume,. Not really. He could have pushed FlaSh with swarm and then send lings to his top left expansion, delaying the push there until his defilers come. Or he might have panicked after seeing that he forgot to research consume and didn't put up nydus canal. Kinda untypical for Jaedong to panic though :/ I don't know if FlaSh fanboys are joking, but the situation in this game was very different from the MSL game 3 im more focusing on the fact that we saw no defiler before flash reached the highground. Flash army size was really big and even with swarm i dont think jaedong could have defended the third (11) until a defiler got there with swarm. what the hell does army size matter, especially when its mostly mm, vs defilers? he would not have lost his third gas. i dunno if he had even scouted 5, presumably that woulda died, but he still woulda been left with a 3 gas 7 hatch zerg with with 2-2 upgrades and a bigass army. flash woulda been run over if consume had been ready in time to hold the high ground.
yeah well thats what i said. If it wasn't ready to hold the highground he wouldn't have been able to save his expansion. If it was, he would.
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On January 26 2010 21:24 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2010 21:19 StylishVODs wrote:On January 26 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On January 26 2010 21:11 StylishVODs wrote:
It was a mistake but he would still have lost both his expansions. His expansions wasn't defended, how can you not see this? It would not have been over if jaedong had consume,. Not really. He could have pushed FlaSh with swarm and then send lings to his top left expansion, delaying the push there until his defilers come. Or he might have panicked after seeing that he forgot to research consume and didn't put up nydus canal. Kinda untypical for Jaedong to panic though :/ I don't know if FlaSh fanboys are joking, but the situation in this game was very different from the MSL game 3 im more focusing on the fact that we saw no defiler before flash reached the highground. Flash army size was really big and even with swarm i dont think jaedong could have defended the third (11) until a defiler got there with swarm. what the hell does army size matter, especially when its mostly mm, vs defilers? he would not have lost his third gas. i dunno if he had even scouted 5, presumably that woulda died, but he still woulda been left with a 3 gas 7 hatch zerg with with 2-2 upgrades and a bigass army. flash woulda been run over if consume had been ready in time to hold the high ground.
/thread. So if JD hit consume correctly there would have been no way that Flash would get to the high ground on time?
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On January 26 2010 21:24 StylishVODs wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2010 21:21 7mk wrote:On January 26 2010 21:19 StylishVODs wrote:On January 26 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On January 26 2010 21:11 StylishVODs wrote:
It was a mistake but he would still have lost both his expansions. His expansions wasn't defended, how can you not see this? It would not have been over if jaedong had consume,. Not really. He could have pushed FlaSh with swarm and then send lings to his top left expansion, delaying the push there until his defilers come. Or he might have panicked after seeing that he forgot to research consume and didn't put up nydus canal. Kinda untypical for Jaedong to panic though :/ I don't know if FlaSh fanboys are joking, but the situation in this game was very different from the MSL game 3 im more focusing on the fact that we saw no defiler before flash reached the highground. Flash army size was really big and even with swarm i dont think jaedong could have defended the third (11) until a defiler got there with swarm. theres no reason to get defilers before you are half way done with consume hence if you forget consume you get defilers later too he didn't forget defilers, he forgot consume. Atleast to my knowledge. His defilers was a second too late even with swarm upgrade due to taking so many bases/hatches.
Well yeah youre probably right about that actually but still since flash didnt even have marines threatening to go to the top left base jd would have been able to push flash back a lot with dark swarm.
Although I dont think it had anything to do with him having taken a lot of bases.
consume should always be priority #1 as soon as ithe mound is ready
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and the thing with the army size is, had he been able to get to highground before swarm. He could have taken out the third if the deilers wasnt able to push up there in time since only his lings wouldn't bwe enough to stop flashes units.
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On January 26 2010 21:24 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2010 21:22 Mooncat wrote:On January 26 2010 21:16 SuperArc wrote:
I havent felt so down since Bisu 3-0ed savior. =/ And that's probably not even close to what Flash fans have been feeling since power outage won the MSL for Jaedong. Why? Jaedong lost a won game, Flash lost a lost game.
Because a god damn SL title was at stake?
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On January 26 2010 21:27 Vasoline73 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2010 21:24 IdrA wrote:On January 26 2010 21:19 StylishVODs wrote:On January 26 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On January 26 2010 21:11 StylishVODs wrote:
It was a mistake but he would still have lost both his expansions. His expansions wasn't defended, how can you not see this? It would not have been over if jaedong had consume,. Not really. He could have pushed FlaSh with swarm and then send lings to his top left expansion, delaying the push there until his defilers come. Or he might have panicked after seeing that he forgot to research consume and didn't put up nydus canal. Kinda untypical for Jaedong to panic though :/ I don't know if FlaSh fanboys are joking, but the situation in this game was very different from the MSL game 3 im more focusing on the fact that we saw no defiler before flash reached the highground. Flash army size was really big and even with swarm i dont think jaedong could have defended the third (11) until a defiler got there with swarm. what the hell does army size matter, especially when its mostly mm, vs defilers? he would not have lost his third gas. i dunno if he had even scouted 5, presumably that woulda died, but he still woulda been left with a 3 gas 7 hatch zerg with with 2-2 upgrades and a bigass army. flash woulda been run over if consume had been ready in time to hold the high ground. /thread. So if JD hit consume correctly there would have been no way that Flash would get to the high ground on time?
I believe flash would just be at the high ground and consume would finish. From there, it would depend on who had the better micro (IE swarm placement, irradiates on the defilers, scourge sniping vessesl, if Flash had redirected to third gas, etc.). But forgetting consume is instant gg from zerg.
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that highground is double edged. jaedong could have pushed back flash, but flash might have chosen to get pushed back towards jaedongs third which was undefended.
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On January 26 2010 21:29 StylishVODs wrote:
and the thing with the army size is, had he been able to get to highground before swarm. He could have taken out the third if the deilers wasnt able to push up there in time since only his lings wouldn't bwe enough to stop flashes units.
why wouldnt lings have been enough?
He had tons of em which means tons of dark swarms and I think the irradiates might have already been wasted on lurkers.
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Germany1228 Posts
On January 26 2010 21:24 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2010 21:22 Mooncat wrote:On January 26 2010 21:16 SuperArc wrote:
I havent felt so down since Bisu 3-0ed savior. =/ And that's probably not even close to what Flash fans have been feeling since power outage won the MSL for Jaedong. Why? Jaedong lost a won game, Flash lost a lost game.
Jaedong got two free wins, that's why.
And before you start throwing probabilities around - no one knows how Game 3 would've turned out. Game 4 was obviously the result of Game 3's circumstances.
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On January 26 2010 21:31 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2010 21:29 StylishVODs wrote:
and the thing with the army size is, had he been able to get to highground before swarm. He could have taken out the third if the deilers wasnt able to push up there in time since only his lings wouldn't bwe enough to stop flashes units. why wouldnt lings have been enough? He had tons of em which means tons of dark swarms and I think the irradiates might have already been wasted on lurkers.
yes lings + darkswarm would have been enough. But I'm reasoning out from the conclusion that jaedongs defilers was abit too late which would have led to the fact that flash would have reched the highground.
From here jaedong would push with defilers from underneath while flash could have moved his units up to jaedongs third.
Pushing with defilers means you have to cast swarm for every inch you want to push. And i dont think his swarms/defilers would have been able to rech the expansion in time.
His lings would have reched it in time, but not his defilers/swarms.
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On January 26 2010 21:31 Mooncat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2010 21:24 SuperArc wrote:On January 26 2010 21:22 Mooncat wrote:On January 26 2010 21:16 SuperArc wrote:
I havent felt so down since Bisu 3-0ed savior. =/ And that's probably not even close to what Flash fans have been feeling since power outage won the MSL for Jaedong. Why? Jaedong lost a won game, Flash lost a lost game. Jaedong got two free wins, that's why. And before you start throwing probabilities around - no one knows how Game 3 would've turned out. Game 4 was obviously the result of Game 3's circumstances.
Wait are people still honestly arguing how that would have turned out... lol
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On January 26 2010 21:31 Mooncat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2010 21:24 SuperArc wrote:On January 26 2010 21:22 Mooncat wrote:On January 26 2010 21:16 SuperArc wrote:
I havent felt so down since Bisu 3-0ed savior. =/ And that's probably not even close to what Flash fans have been feeling since power outage won the MSL for Jaedong. Why? Jaedong lost a won game, Flash lost a lost game. Jaedong got two free wins, that's why. And before you start throwing probabilities around - no one knows how Game 3 would've turned out. Game 4 was obviously the result of Game 3's circumstances.
This guy does nothing but troll, always the same shit. Please slash your wrists already.
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On January 26 2010 21:34 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2010 21:31 Mooncat wrote:On January 26 2010 21:24 SuperArc wrote:On January 26 2010 21:22 Mooncat wrote:On January 26 2010 21:16 SuperArc wrote:
I havent felt so down since Bisu 3-0ed savior. =/ And that's probably not even close to what Flash fans have been feeling since power outage won the MSL for Jaedong. Why? Jaedong lost a won game, Flash lost a lost game. Jaedong got two free wins, that's why. And before you start throwing probabilities around - no one knows how Game 3 would've turned out. Game 4 was obviously the result of Game 3's circumstances. Wait are people still honestly arguing how that would have turned out... lol
Take into consideration that when the power outage happened, this dude was sure that Flash had a huge lead in game 3.
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The issue comes down to. Would flash have been able to reach the highground due to jaedong expanding too much?
If yes, he COULD have taken out jaedongs expansions leading to a longer game or flash ending it.
If no, then he would have lost terribly.
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Leessang + Bisu matches are always nasty. Troll fests all over + anger on every side, why cant they just play perfect games with no fuck ups everytime. Thanks Idra for saving the thread.
Edit: Stylish why are you still theorycrafting? The game is simply over and JD fucked up and lost. Noone is denying that. The game would've been closer if consume was done but JD would still have the edge.
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MrHoon
10183 Posts
On January 26 2010 21:31 Mooncat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2010 21:24 SuperArc wrote:On January 26 2010 21:22 Mooncat wrote:On January 26 2010 21:16 SuperArc wrote:
I havent felt so down since Bisu 3-0ed savior. =/ And that's probably not even close to what Flash fans have been feeling since power outage won the MSL for Jaedong. Why? Jaedong lost a won game, Flash lost a lost game. Jaedong got two free wins, that's why. And before you start throwing probabilities around - no one knows how Game 3 would've turned out. Game 4 was obviously the result of Game 3's circumstances.
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Flash vs Jaedong wasn't even the most important event of the night.
ForGG won a game! This is a monumental event in Starcraft that may change the dynamics of the game for years to come.
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On January 26 2010 21:29 StylishVODs wrote:
that highground is double edged. jaedong could have pushed back flash, but flash might have chosen to get pushed back towards jaedongs third which was undefended.
Game was decided when Jaedong forgot to research consume . It is easy to imagine what you think could have happen . Jaedong could very well have surrounded the army with swarm and rape it also right there . He gave up when he realised he hasn't started consume he stoped all army movements and repositioning and just A moved for the hell of it ... It's pointless to argue what could have happened it's like with the power outage we don't really know what Flash could have done or couldn't have done .
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Disclaimer: I am an absolutely horrible D Starcraft player who in no way has any advanced knowledge of any matchup.
That being said, can someone tell me why Flash never makes turrets by his main SCV line on Match Point? Like two or three of them? I want to pull my hair out seeing how often he loses (or almost lost, in this game's case) because of the Z player just flying mutas right over his main worker line on this map.
Is the 150 or 225 minerals for 2/3 turrets there just too much? I could swear that other T players have built 3 or so turrets there against Zerg, and it seems to work fine for them...
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i46.tinypic.com/29m994z.gif)
