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More drama yay!
Idra's insight was very profound:
On January 26 2010 20:28 IdrA wrote:
but really its a map that switches halfway through. the natural and overall map setup gives z a solid advantage early. great for muta harass and a defensible 3rd gas thats pretty hard away from the terran. easy mineral only as well which some z's have used for high econ 2 hat muta->mass lurk ling builds that are quite strong. but if terran can survive the 3 gas units he gets a relatively easy turtle and zerg has a bitch of a time getting a fourth gas.
More than that the game just shows how knife-edged SC is at this high level. When you're controlling a Zerg army that large the level of multi-tasking required is incomprehensible so I guess it's inevitable that mistakes will creep in from time to time.
I felt Flash played quite conservative at the start. He must've been confident in his ability to take advantage of the map late in the game when the muta harass wore off... and he was right.
Great game.
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On January 26 2010 21:06 StylishVODs wrote:
I Think what happened was, jaedong powered hatcherys due to early advantage. Thus getting a pretty late mound but it would still be up in time to save his mineral only.
However. Flash would have reached the highground anyways and be faught off with swarms and units.
However he could easily have moved some units back and some units towards jaedongs 11 oclock expansion.
This would lead to the death of 11 o clock. Which gives jaedong 3 gas total with 1 being at an expansion without nydus / units close to flashes base.
I'm not so sure Jaedong would have won had he researched consume (given that flash would have reached the highground in time).
I think jaedong powered eco abit too much and flashes timing/unitsize was abit too fast/biug for what jaedong did anyway.
Simply put. With swarm he would still be on only 2 gas and one mineral only after that massive attack. And would fight to get a third gas with defilers while flash is securing his min only and then going into a long game.
I think to make this theory and act like it's a fact is a bit crazy.
But I guess we can wait for the VOD -> see when consume should have been done and then have a better idea about whether flash had a chance of killing the 3rd gas.
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On January 26 2010 21:14 Scaramanga wrote:
What i got from the live reports was jd didnt have much anyway when his 3rd/4th got attacked so he still would have had a hard time defending if he had swarm
JD had a massive amount of lings, they just couldn't do anything. He may very well have lost one expansion, so the game would not have been over, but still with JD in the lead I believe, at least slightly.
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On January 26 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2010 21:11 StylishVODs wrote:
It was a mistake but he would still have lost both his expansions. His expansions wasn't defended, how can you not see this? It would not have been over if jaedong had consume,. Not really. He could have pushed FlaSh with swarm and then send lings to his top left expansion, delaying the push there until his defilers come. Or he might have panicked after seeing that he forgot to research consume and didn't put up nydus canal. Kinda untypical for Jaedong to panic though :/ I don't know if FlaSh fanboys are joking, but the situation in this game was very different from the MSL game 3
im more focusing on the fact that we saw no defiler before flash reached the highground.
Flash army size was really big and even with swarm i dont think jaedong could have defended the third (11) until a defiler got there with swarm.
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On January 26 2010 21:17 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2010 21:13 Inflexion wrote:On January 26 2010 21:10 baubo wrote:
For those who wondered about Flash's turrets, he went quick 4-rax IIRC. And was concentrating on pumping out mnms. The lack of turrets is by design, not because he forgot.
As for Jaedong not having defilers either along with consume, I don't play zerg. So I don't know the timing of defiler vs consume upgrade. But I'm pretty sure they're tied to one another(maybe at the same time?). And that Jaedong's lack of defiler is predicated on him forgetting to research consume. Perhaps a zerg player can help me out here. Regardless, I'm pretty sure Jaedong's hive and defiler mound timing were fine. But defilers just never popped up. I explained it earlier. But yes, he forgot consume. Defilers did pop. JD suicided them because he realized he forgot consume. Usually, Defilers pop and consume finishes about 10-20 seconds afterward. I'm not talking about when defilers would appear vs consume. I'm talking about the timing of when zergs make defilers vs consume upgrade. For example, if Jaedong likes to click on the consume upgrade immediately followed by making a couple of defilers, then forgetting consume would also make him forget defilers.
In ZvT, once the hive pops, you put down the defiler mound. And then once the that pops, you make 2 defilers and research consume instantly.
Defilers will pop, but consume will be 2/3 to finishing.
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I hate how everybody just generalizes those who are saying stupid things in favor of flash as Flash fanboys. Some of them dont even have a KT icon.
And JD can go take his MSL, we take the OSL and #1 PL baby!!!
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On January 26 2010 21:19 StylishVODs wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On January 26 2010 21:11 StylishVODs wrote:
It was a mistake but he would still have lost both his expansions. His expansions wasn't defended, how can you not see this? It would not have been over if jaedong had consume,. Not really. He could have pushed FlaSh with swarm and then send lings to his top left expansion, delaying the push there until his defilers come. Or he might have panicked after seeing that he forgot to research consume and didn't put up nydus canal. Kinda untypical for Jaedong to panic though :/ I don't know if FlaSh fanboys are joking, but the situation in this game was very different from the MSL game 3 im more focusing on the fact that we saw no defiler before flash reached the highground. Flash army size was really big and even with swarm i dont think jaedong could have defended the third (11) until a defiler got there with swarm.
theres no reason to get defilers before you are half way done with consume
hence if you forget consume you get defilers later too
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I can't believe you people are arguing JD purposely chose not to get consume. I mean even D+ zergs know you get consume soon as den finishes and somehow a S-class pro decided against it. It was just a mistake on JD's part and it cost him the game. And once again the viewers are robbed of a good game 
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On January 26 2010 21:16 SuperArc wrote:
I havent felt so down since Bisu 3-0ed savior. =/
And that's probably not even close to what Flash fans have been feeling since power outage won the MSL for Jaedong.
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7mk, im not acting like its a fact. Thats just what i believe would have happened based on what I saw.
Other people might be of different oppinion but I think jaedong powered his econ just a bit too much and wasnt expecting flash to be able to do what he did after jaedongs early advantage.
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On January 26 2010 21:21 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2010 21:19 StylishVODs wrote:On January 26 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On January 26 2010 21:11 StylishVODs wrote:
It was a mistake but he would still have lost both his expansions. His expansions wasn't defended, how can you not see this? It would not have been over if jaedong had consume,. Not really. He could have pushed FlaSh with swarm and then send lings to his top left expansion, delaying the push there until his defilers come. Or he might have panicked after seeing that he forgot to research consume and didn't put up nydus canal. Kinda untypical for Jaedong to panic though :/ I don't know if FlaSh fanboys are joking, but the situation in this game was very different from the MSL game 3 im more focusing on the fact that we saw no defiler before flash reached the highground. Flash army size was really big and even with swarm i dont think jaedong could have defended the third (11) until a defiler got there with swarm. theres no reason to get defilers before you are half way done with consume hence if you forget consume you get defilers later too
your saying he knew he forgot consume since he didnt make defilers?
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I say we should stop all Pro-SC until we see a Bo9 on the most historically even maps in SC between Flash and Jaedong to see who is better.
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On January 26 2010 20:52 Kaniol wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2010 20:49 Highways wrote:
This game shows why T>>>Z
You can dominate the game, but cannot touch a Terran Ball. This game shows your lack of knowledge about timing pushes in TvZ, especially famous 9 min timing push
This game had nothing to do with timing . Jaedong just forgot to research consume or did Flash timed it knowing Jaedong would forget consume  . It could happen to anyone once .... i hope it doesn't start happening a lot thought . Savior researched hidra's speed instead of the lurker upgrade ....
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On January 26 2010 21:23 Qwertify wrote:
I say we should stop all Pro-SC until we see a Bo9 on the most historically even maps in SC between Flash and Jaedong to see who is better.
Sounds like a plan!
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On January 26 2010 21:19 StylishVODs wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On January 26 2010 21:11 StylishVODs wrote:
It was a mistake but he would still have lost both his expansions. His expansions wasn't defended, how can you not see this? It would not have been over if jaedong had consume,. Not really. He could have pushed FlaSh with swarm and then send lings to his top left expansion, delaying the push there until his defilers come. Or he might have panicked after seeing that he forgot to research consume and didn't put up nydus canal. Kinda untypical for Jaedong to panic though :/ I don't know if FlaSh fanboys are joking, but the situation in this game was very different from the MSL game 3 im more focusing on the fact that we saw no defiler before flash reached the highground. Flash army size was really big and even with swarm i dont think jaedong could have defended the third (11) until a defiler got there with swarm.
what the hell does army size matter, especially when its mostly mm, vs defilers?
he would not have lost his third gas. i dunno if he had even scouted 5, presumably that woulda died, but he still woulda been left with a 3 gas 7 hatch zerg with with 2-2 upgrades and a bigass army. flash woulda been run over if consume had been ready in time to hold the high ground.
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Again and again speculations about what could have been if...
Flash played better and took the game, and of course looser made some mistakes, often (sad but not always) that is the reason why losers lose.
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Tonight, I'm going to have a dream. It'll go something like this:
Flash will be playing TvZ on Match Point. His opponent will fly a bunch of mutas into his main SCV line, BUT THERE WILL BE TURRETS WAITING FOR THE ZERG THERE! The turrets will allow Flash to not lose a billion SCVs, and eventually lead to him winning the game (without Z forgetting consume).
One day I hope to see this happen IRL.
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On January 26 2010 21:22 Mooncat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2010 21:16 SuperArc wrote:
I havent felt so down since Bisu 3-0ed savior. =/ And that's probably not even close to what Flash fans have been feeling since power outage won the MSL for Jaedong.
Why? Jaedong lost a won game, Flash lost a lost game.
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On January 26 2010 21:21 7mk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2010 21:19 StylishVODs wrote:On January 26 2010 21:15 roMAD wrote:On January 26 2010 21:11 StylishVODs wrote:
It was a mistake but he would still have lost both his expansions. His expansions wasn't defended, how can you not see this? It would not have been over if jaedong had consume,. Not really. He could have pushed FlaSh with swarm and then send lings to his top left expansion, delaying the push there until his defilers come. Or he might have panicked after seeing that he forgot to research consume and didn't put up nydus canal. Kinda untypical for Jaedong to panic though :/ I don't know if FlaSh fanboys are joking, but the situation in this game was very different from the MSL game 3 im more focusing on the fact that we saw no defiler before flash reached the highground. Flash army size was really big and even with swarm i dont think jaedong could have defended the third (11) until a defiler got there with swarm. theres no reason to get defilers before you are half way done with consume hence if you forget consume you get defilers later too
he didn't forget defilers, he forgot consume. Atleast to my knowledge. His defilers was a second too late even with swarm upgrade due to taking so many bases/hatches.
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EPT
