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On March 01 2009 09:33 AnOth3rDAy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 09:24 ZzZzAnG wrote:
oh i though you would do a VOD about long game tvp that i was talkign about earlier :p yeh sorry wont do that for a while. I dont feel like playing tvp atm.. i will do it as soon as i wanna play some tvp;) i could ask merz to do it though. he's good at tvp.
that would be awesome :D
tvts would be good too :p,if you can show fe into vulture openning(s).not trying to request whole lot of stuff just some tvt vods and bo's
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On March 01 2009 11:37 McCrank wrote:Ok wtf who gives a shit if he abused in some ladder that doesn't mean anything? AAAAH HE'S NOT REALLY A- HE'S B+!!! HE JUST ABUSED HIS WAY TO A-!!! Seriously who gives a shit? You seriously need to relax. It's like he fucking robbed you off all your money. I love the VODs helped me a bunch. Please make more 
Iccup is the best ladder the foreign scene has and when you abuse on it you make it a worse place to practice on. Abusing is on the same level as hacking/cheating/ Map rigging/ bug using. It all gives you an unfair advantage over your opponent. Dont say something like it doesnt mean anything.
Whether you abuse to get to d+ or a- its still the same. Its not as major as something like abusing on tsl or something but its still abusing. If you dont make any excuses and try to justify what you did and accept your mistake you will gain the trust back for most because you arent someone like ls or dino. You made a mistake and you have to live with the consequences now.
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Stylish, seriously, don't let any of this get you down, and certainly don't sacrifice your health over this.
You've done a great service to the community, and no one can say otherwise. I think everyone still respects the amount of time and energy that you've put into these VODs. At least for me, they have become pretty much the Holy Grail for learning T and improving my BOs :D
As for the abusing, I think the end more or less justified the means, if it meant that you could record more VODs versus higher ranked players.
I usually don't post a lot, but I felt like I had to at least voice my support. Keep at it, the community is still behind you! ^_^
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On March 01 2009 07:16 AnOth3rDAy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 07:06 LOcDowN wrote:
Stylish, seriously. You are so fucking lovable. Even if you abused, it was for an adorable reason. <3 after this zatic degraded me to B terran and oystein doesnt mention me in his thread anymore hehe, guess thats what you get. Was trying to record a VOD right now but i logged in and a-b channel was like 5 people hmm
Why would I mention you in my thread? I did not do it anywhere beside maybe the OP way back, so its not like I was mentioning you before you were abusing either...
Now I had not planned on writing in this thread until you brought me up but now I just as well might give you my thoughts. Your VODs are still great and this does not make them any less learning tools. With that said however how do you expect to get any respect after this?
However, what is important to know, is that I didn't try to show people some skill that I didn't possess. I didn't try to fool the community or get respect that i didn't deserve. I simply tried to show people the fact that my TvZ is probably A- material, and I hope some of you might already have noticed watching my VODs
So when you got to a rank illegally you did NOT end up fooling the community? You even clearly state that you did it to "shut up" all your doubters and legitimize your VODs... If you truly did not care what others who you have not spoken to thinks about you, you would never have abused just to prove them wrong. Your pride/ego got a hold on you whether you wanna admit it or not.
I can't really say that Im sorry for abusing, for I actually believe that the purpose would cover the means (i dont know if thats correct english). I'll say it again: I didnt want to show you guys like, hey im this good look at me, if I didn't possess that skill. And since I think I do, I didn't really think of it as such a bad thing, although maybe bad for russia since we got ahead of them on the countryrankings when i got A- lol).
Your not sorry for downright cheating?!? So you think its OK for everyone who thinks they belong at some rank to cheat their way there just because they believe they are so skilled just to save time?
I'm sorry if I've offended anyone. I've only wanted to help the community out, spending counless of hours recording vods and doing guides for you guys.
I wanted to show the community that my tvz was A- skill and i took the easy way out since i knew that the outcome would be the same and I didn't feel like i owed the community to play many hours just to show you that my VODs are good. I really didn't have time to game to A- but ive been playing whenever i've been able to for the last 3 days and slept like 3hours a day.
Your still not A- so how is the result the same?
Now you will probably get there since you are doing this at the last few days of the season in your best matchup, but how is that suppose to impress us or give you back your "a rank" at the nevake chanel? When you have decided to abuse once (and not thinking you did anything wrong), how are we suppose to believe any rank you have gotten in the past or the ones you will get in the future?
If some are dissapointed at me then i guess you have the rght to be but i dont think i deserve that reaction because of what i've written here. If you cannot understand then i guess im very different to the rest of you.
You expect the normal people to think abuse is OK? Then I guess you are very different from the rest. Some people think its OK to steal shit in real life also, I guess some people just have low moral standards...
The amount of work you have put in making these tutorials and the help its given to the community I highly respect (and like I said earlier they are still great even tho he abused)
However your downright cheating and failure to admit what you did was wrong have made me lose a lot of respect I had for you as a BW player.
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@ Stylish: dude I am in awe of the effort you put in playing, recording, explaining the moves, providing the replays for your tutorials. It's really amazing and a unique approach. For that you deserve all the respect you can get I give it to you.
However you gotta know something: if a man builds 10000 bridges but sucks even 1 cock, to the world he is not a bridge builder but a simple cocksucker. So - you're always gonna be thought of as the cocksucker. And there is no need to explain your actions. You did what you did, just meet the consequences and that's all.
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How does ladder abusing of this sort amount to the samething as maphacking and maprigging? Seriously that makes no sense. One gives you extra points..the other affects the actual game you play against the oppoent, not even close.
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Ilovestarcraft:
I dont see how what I did ever gave me an unfair advatage against an opponent. No opponent ever lost score or games during the actual abuse games. No one got denied their chance of winning a game or a prize so I don't see how this is the same as hacking/maprigging. However if you feel that way i cannot change your mind.
Oystein:
No, my intention was never to fool the community. Im sorry that i didn't achieve A- legally on two days, i would have needed some more time. I was just one game away so it could just as well have ended sooner. I have stated the reasons why i didnt have time to play.
Yes the result is the same. I wanted people to know my TvZ was A- so they can decide wether or not to watch my VODs. My TvZ is A- skilled wether it is late in the season or in the middle. I guess not in the beginning i dont know... Thats why the result would be the same only that i didn't have time to go the hard way.
Yeah i guess im alot different to other people, i wouldn't care if anyone abused their way up to lets say B+ and then started playing from there because they didn't wanna play low ranks. I actually dont think its a bad thing since it doesnt directly hurt anyone. Stealing from someone affects another person, thats not ok and not the same thing.
You have gotten it all wrong, I dont want to impress anyone by having A- rank on nevakes account. I felt that unnessicary discussion was going on on for example youtube about my VODs. People of lesser rank debated wether or not things was legit here and there. Its a good thing to have a rank that represent the VODs. I only wanted this to help the viewers decide as I said before. I dont care if it said D+, it just would create alot of unnessicary problems for the viewers.
Yes i think its ok for some good player to abuse his way to some rank and then start playing there, or what I did(otherwise i wouldn't have done it), or atleast i wouldnt give a rats ass about it. However rules are rules and i guess you have to follow them. And i will not abuse again only because i actually care about what the guys that like my VODs will think of me and my friends. I'm just being honest.
In my oppinion the difference between what i did and for example hacking/rigging is the same as the difference between straight out hurting someone and telling someone yes you can buy that car, i have money when infact you dont have money until the payday but will still be able to buy the car.
My intention is not to get any respect. I get the respect i deserve and the disrespect i deserve i guess. As oystein said, how am i ever gonna get respect after this. I dont need respect, my plan wasn't to join a clan and play serious anyway. Im only interested to play for fun and to post more vods and that was ever my intention.
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But your still not A-..........
If you where an A- player mid season then why did you not get there then and started going 5050 vs A- Koreans? And if you don`t realize it, its a difference between being able to get to A- and actually being an A- player (being able to stay at the rank and going 5050 or better vs your similar ranked opponents).
You make claims without any evidence to back it up and expect us to just accept that you are A-?
You don`t think peoples view on you would be flawed if noone noticed your abuse and you got away with your A- with good stats? And would it really be that awful if you where only a B+ user instead of an A-? How would that discredit your VODs any? You think noone would watch it just because your B+ and not A-? lol... If anything now all your doubters will have a great time trashing on your VODs since you actually have cheated.... While its not as bad as hacking or map rigging etc you have still proved that you can and will cheat if it benefits you and that you don`t follow the rules set for everyone, all this while even thinking its OK to cheat.
Now face the consequences of your actions.
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the view wouldnt be flawed. i dont know about staying 5050 vs A- koreans though..
its ok im taking the consequences but my intent wasnt to fool anyone.
about the a- and not b+ was just coz of the gosugamers thread.. i wouldn't really mind otherwise.
i accept the flames and can understand people are angry.
i know the best thing would be to say oh im sorry about the horrible deed that ive done but im just being honest, i have a different view obviously otherwise i wouldnt have done it. I also dont really mind people flaming on me if they we're doubters from the beginning, ive put hard work to help the community and i only care for those that like me.
That you're saying im still not A- only means that you didnt understand my point. Now if its cause of my vague explanation or your different view i dont know.
i was one game away from getting A- from B with about 10 losses. that game i was slow on a bunker in my expansion.. that doesnt take away the whole point of my arguement in my oppinion.
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He said he's sorry and won't do it again.
Leave that shit already for god's sake.
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Stylish, the VODs are a great help. Please continue to make more.
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It doesn't matter because A- or B+, he's still better than most of us here.
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On March 01 2009 21:08 Oystein wrote:
But your still not A-..........
If you where an A- player mid season then why did you not get there then and started going 5050 vs A- Koreans? And if you don`t realize it, its a difference between being able to get to A- and actually being an A- player (being able to stay at the rank and going 5050 or better vs your similar ranked opponents).
You make claims without any evidence to back it up and expect us to just accept that you are A-?
You don`t think peoples view on you would be flawed if noone noticed your abuse and you got away with your A- with good stats? And would it really be that awful if you where only a B+ user instead of an A-? How would that discredit your VODs any? You think noone would watch it just because your B+ and not A-? lol... If anything now all your doubters will have a great time trashing on your VODs since you actually have cheated.... While its not as bad as hacking or map rigging etc you have still proved that you can and will cheat if it benefits you and that you don`t follow the rules set for everyone, all this while even thinking its OK to cheat.
Now face the consequences of your actions.
The only thing that has been put against him is his iccup rank. He could have hacked the iccup server and made himself A-.. what does any of that have to do with his ability? His ability is not on trial. The amount he contributes is untouched, and his skill and competence can be extracted from his vod. His rank on iccup means nothing.
Oystein, I think you have a really messed up set of priorities. Stylish is not the sort of person to abuse for publicity. He never milks attention or acts like he's hot shit. To him, it was supposed to be a "Hey look!" to some of his close friends, not some epic controversy. Hey Guess what! When my friend was really dedicated to hit C- but couldn't do it, I transferred the stats from one of my accounts so that he could impress his friends. It was cute. We had a good laugh. He felt good with a yellow icon and then said "Okay, now time to earn it."
Does this mean I am not to be trusted?! No, because it was only between me and him. Yelling "fire!" as a joke with just your friends can be funny, but when a crowded office building over-hears it(TL), it turns into a huge problem.
How does this prove that stylish "can and will cheat if it benefits you."? All it proves is that he could and did cheat to get a different color icon. It doesn't show shit on whether he would ever cheat in a game of Broodwar. Stylish would never cheat in a game of Starcraft. He wronged iccup, not Starcraft. His validity as an arbitrary rank on iccup is in question, not his ability or his contributions to the SC community.
He admitted to abusing iccup. Not in Starcraft. :\
Get over it.
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On March 01 2009 22:15 dhe95 wrote:
It doesn't matter because A- or B+, he's still better than most of us here.
QFT
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I still do not see the point with his abusing if it wasn't for justification or bragging. If he wanted an A- account for playing against high level koreans there'd probably be a few willing to lend out theirs. But it doesn't seem that his true intention with abusing to A- was to play against better players faster. At least I didn't interpret his first defending post like that.
Then what did he hope to accomplish, really?
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On March 01 2009 22:20 404.Nintu wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2009 21:08 Oystein wrote:
But your still not A-..........
If you where an A- player mid season then why did you not get there then and started going 5050 vs A- Koreans? And if you don`t realize it, its a difference between being able to get to A- and actually being an A- player (being able to stay at the rank and going 5050 or better vs your similar ranked opponents).
You make claims without any evidence to back it up and expect us to just accept that you are A-?
You don`t think peoples view on you would be flawed if noone noticed your abuse and you got away with your A- with good stats? And would it really be that awful if you where only a B+ user instead of an A-? How would that discredit your VODs any? You think noone would watch it just because your B+ and not A-? lol... If anything now all your doubters will have a great time trashing on your VODs since you actually have cheated.... While its not as bad as hacking or map rigging etc you have still proved that you can and will cheat if it benefits you and that you don`t follow the rules set for everyone, all this while even thinking its OK to cheat.
Now face the consequences of your actions. The only thing that has been put against him is his iccup rank. He could have hacked the iccup server and made himself A-.. what does any of that have to do with his ability? His ability is not on trial. The amount he contributes is untouched, and his skill and competence can be extracted from his vod. His rank on iccup means nothing. Oystein, I think you have a really messed up set of priorities. Stylish is not the sort of person to abuse for publicity. He never milks attention or acts like he's hot shit. To him, it was supposed to be a "Hey look!" to some of his close friends, not some epic controversy. Hey Guess what! When my friend was really dedicated to hit C- but couldn't do it, I transferred the stats from one of my accounts so that he could impress his friends. It was cute. We had a good laugh. He felt good with a yellow icon and then said "Okay, now time to earn it." Does this mean I am not to be trusted?! No, because it was only between me and him. Yelling "fire!" as a joke with just your friends can be funny, but when a crowded office building over-hears it(TL), it turns into a huge problem. How does this prove that stylish "can and will cheat if it benefits you."? All it proves is that he could and did cheat to get a different color icon. It doesn't show shit on whether he would ever cheat in a game of Broodwar. Stylish would never cheat in a game of Starcraft. He wronged iccup, not Starcraft. His validity as an arbitrary rank on iccup is in question, not his ability or his contributions to the SC community. He admitted to abusing iccup. Not in Starcraft. :\ Get over it.
I have never doubted that hes a skilled player and I said in my first post that his VODs are great, but I am not just buying his "I am A- TvZ even mid season" without any sort of proof, and since he have never been A- legally before hes got a lot to prove, or else hes just throwing ridiculous claims into the air, and when he DID abuse to get to A- it should make people wonder if he really is at that level of play. Had he never said anything about the rank in his posts his ability would not be in question, however now he have made claims that he have yet lived up to.
If he did not abuse for publicity, what did he abuse for? He clearly states he did it to prove all those who discredited him wrong and like shauni said it seems like he had no other reason to get to A- beside the publicity.
He might never cheat again, however he have proved that he indeed have what it takes to cheat for his own glorification. So if he was willing to take that shortcut, what makes us sure that he won`t take similar shortcuts\cheat in the future when hes already proved that hes got what it takes to cheat? My point is that now hes got a tainted reputation and hes got to live with it.
Now I don`t really know him and have only played a few games with him, so I got no clue why he really did these things, but I can tell how it looks from the outside.
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Yes i guess ill have to live with my reputation being tainted.
I dont care about my reputation, other than for those who liked me before.
Im still going to play for fun as usuall with my friends and record vods smurfing on iccup thats all i want. You can know for 100% that i will not cheat in any way that hurts anyone because i wont participate in any tournaments whatsoever. I have no urge to play compititavly(spelling?).
I can only give my word that it wasnt for my own glorification. Those who doesn't know me will not understand, but those who knows me in person will understand coz they know how I am.
Shauni, i guess some part of it was for justification of my skill ofcourse, but not to fool anyone.
I didnt mention it being a- or any rank before the gosugamers thread. I guess i fell for the comunitytrap.
to sum it up:
I did something many people think is wrong. Yes, but dont be overdramatic about it, no one got hurt and my intentions wasnt crewl. I guess I made a mistake. Blame me for it if you want, but don't be too eager to do so unless you're a saint yourself on iccup and real life coz i've done alot of good things before this.
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Personally, there is something I wanna know, and address.
What is the difference between vsing an opponent at B+ rank that you 100% know you can beat every game, and take 6 easy wins off of him....as opposed to taking 6 freewins off of another account. Would they both not be credited as cheating? If you know 100% you are going to win those 6 games, and you play them is that not the same as taking 6 guaranteed freewins?
it just seems like a really murky situation to be talking about.
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stfu ppl! Who cares? He is doing us, the community, a BIG FUCKING FAVOUR by doing these vods. ppl here at team liquid are fucking spoiled. They dont seems to understand how much time and effort allot of ppl put in to this. And what do they get back? Hate?
Thank you man for doing these vods! Keep it up!
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On March 02 2009 00:26 eXigent. wrote:
Personally, there is something I wanna know, and address.
What is the difference between vsing an opponent at B+ rank that you 100% know you can beat every game, and take 6 easy wins off of him....as opposed to taking 6 freewins off of another account. Would they both not be credited as cheating? If you know 100% you are going to win those 6 games, and you play them is that not the same as taking 6 guaranteed freewins?
it just seems like a really murky situation to be talking about.
If you fail to see the difference I am at loss of words...
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EPT
