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9/9 extractor trick (10/9)
10/9 Expo , extractor trick (10/9)
10/9 Spawning pool (9/9)
9/9 Overlord, extractor trick (10/9) (and don't cancel the spawning pool by accident... not that I'd know from experience or anything...)
Will have 4 larvae when spawning pool is done, spawn 8 lings, followed up by more for 14 before another OL is needed.
It's sort of very strange, rather risky, but quite unorthadox (especially being extractor happy).
Strenghts: Allows for 14 zerglings rather quickly (roughly 3 minutes and some change, I'd guess), a fast expansion and the ability to defend it, and can easily switch to mutas by doing double gas when needed, then lair/spire. Even after the lings are made, there seems to be plenty of minerals left over for another hatch, etc. Gives a fast, and potentially powerful start although quite a risky one at first.
Weaknesses: You dedicate yourself to a highly aggressive stance with zergling (either rush, harrassment, etc) and later in the game until you can bump your economy back due to lack of drones. Also, you sacrifice numbers of units - primarily drones due to slower OLs at first. If you can't get in with your lings, then you've just wasted a ton of resources to get them fast for nothing. If you get hit by some kind of rush after your initial assault (say, a zealot rush), you'd probably need some impressive micro to hold them off.
I'm not an incredible player and it's hard to find good players at times on battle.net. From just random tries, it seems more successful against Terrans (especially when close), and if you have good micro, can keep a Protoss player busy while you go for mutas, hoping the player forgets anti-air while dealing with non-stop ling harassment.
If nothing else, it can provide observers a bit of variety from the normally algorithmic-precision first few minutes  .
Anyway, I thought I'd throw this onto the forum and see if anyone had any initial thoughts, if it seems a viable, though strange thing, if anyone would be willing to try it sometime and see how things go, etc. Or any modifications, whatever.
Although there's a lot of weaknesses, it appears that you do have a pretty strong start if you can keep up the pressure, even against a good player. *shrugs*
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I don't really think the extractor trick is efficient. You lose 25% of the building cost (50*0.25=~13) while canceling structure and of course the time that a drone could spend to gather.
As for the build itself - it isn't useful in ZvT. You can't play offensively from the beginning when building hatch first and there's no need to consume so badly to defend a scv+rine rush.
It seems okay vs P, but then again I don't know much up this match up.
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tomson
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i agree that the gas trick is a setback, in the time it take to get the extra drone, the gassed drone is only gonna bring u a maximum of 24 mins, off of 2 gas cancels u lose 26. besides that i think the build is not common but used. in personal experiance, it can be effective in all match ups, but a fast scout can quickly put an end to your program =\ i would give it more hope on a non-ramped map for it is easier to take advantage of mucho lings early.
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Thanks for the input. Concerning the extractor trick, it's useful when you won't get an overlord for such a long time although I think maybe I need to take another look at the amount it is used. Because you won't have an overlord until after your hatchery and pool are already building, the one drone you get can easily make up for the 13 after two trips.. and it will be going back and forth much more than that. The amount of time it is gone from mining depends on the map, but if you do it quickly, may be acceptable. Still though, doing it 4 times may be a bit excessive .
For the second comment, the idea is sort of being able to both go expantion hatch and play offensively at the same time (at the cost of early economy). Defense isn't a consideration within the skeleton build itself (you want to defend, get sunkens, not zerglings at such a cost). By holding off the overlord until much later, you get an increase in minerals letting you expand faster and still get the lings quickly... I think. That's kind of the idea anyway
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4492 Posts
<b class=quote>
9/9 Overlord, extractor trick (10/9) (and don't cancel the spawning pool by accident... not that I'd know from experience or anything...)
 Hilarious? 
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That 10/9 gas thing cant be all bad cuss i see yellow do it all the time.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
tomson you don't lose 25%, you lose wayyyy less of a percent if the buildling just started being made
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
n/m i was wrong maybe i was thinking about zerg eggs being cancelled or am i wrong about that too? asdf someone tell me
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I think tomson was right, and for units there is no loss in cancel (only the larvae).
My friend's secret build was like that, but instead of spending money on ling he spended it on drones . So he could manage really fast lair, and lurkers usually . To defend vs early rush, just bring 3-6 drone to expo. you can even make pool later, just be sure to have 2 colony waiting. Drone harass the offender .
Well that work against 99% player without risk, but do not try it against naz ;]
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Im not a z player but im pretty sure that the purpose of the 10/9 drone trick is to keep so there is no point in the early game where there are 3 larvae around your hatchery. meaning that after the 10/9 trick the z player will make an overlord. Then as soon as its made 2 drones, shortly after the 3rd larvae spawns (normally there is 3 waiting) What do i know though im a P player^^
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<b class=quote>On November 11 2002 06:03 AlmostSexy wrote:</B><BR> Im not a z player but im pretty sure that the purpose of the 10/9 drone trick is to keep so there is no point in the early game where there are 3 larvae around your hatchery. meaning that after the 10/9 trick the z player will make an overlord. Then as soon as its made 2 drones, shortly after the 3rd larvae spawns (normally there is 3 waiting) What do i know though im a P player^^
Normally it's like this: 9 lord, then extractor trick, 10/9. OL finishes, get another drone, or go for an early hatch.
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You won't ever reach 3 using a standard build, even without the Extractor trick. You can more 2 drones as soon as the overlord comes up, then shortly after, another drone. But interesting thought though. Never considered that .
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i always thought 8 ol was best
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Your all nuts if yellow does 10/9 its a good BO that should end this whole post right here lol. If its a zerg build order and yellow does it then its good. Who will say Yellows B.O is bad? lol
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Sweden33719 Posts
It is NOT YellOw's BO......... Notice the amount of Extractor tricks in the above mentioned BO.
Regards FrozenArbiter
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Plus, I won't say Yellow is bad. Doesn't mean he could possibly be wrong  . Unlikely though. The extractor trick in general, from tests I did seems to make you lose around 10 minerals more or less... not sure. I don't know his reason, and after looking at it, I'd have to do the math on the build, but anyway... considering the REST of the build, any thoughts?
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I was about to post something regarding this but since it was already posted i will follow up on it. ( oh gosh...2002 ). If we just disregard the extractor trick pros and cons. and we just consider getting another drone. I seems that build is rather powerful but very risky. You get an early expo. double gas. slightly late ling rush. and a jump start into a good eco.
I guess this is mostly efficent vs toss, cuz terran can easly bunker the expo before you get a chance to stop it, ( without ruining the point of the build to get a faster eco started up ). and zerg can 6 pool or 9 pool and win the game easily by either stoping your drones from mining and get more recenforcements. or just harrasment or mess up your hatchery. anyways, back to ZvT.
Toss Builds are pretty much standard. double gate... or gate cyb... or some other variation. the hatch will be done and the creep should be just finishing when the first zeolot makes it half way to your base. ( unless toss notices your build and decides to build some proxys gateways which would be uncool , making this build very risky -_-'' anyways). you should have around 6 lings to stop the first zeolot while 2-4 more come.... sunken... and lings. and hope your micro and macro are decent to hold off toss.
If toss consisitantly comes for you... just keep putting guys on money and sunkens and keep atlease 6-12 lings. and fight them off!!! and hope the lair is coming up soon. but even so.... This build is very risky. it all depends on how gosu the toss is.
if toss is smart or chobo, he would back off, giving you a chance to breath and build a 3rd hatchry and choosing either lurkers , mutas, or some combination. Now with 3 hatchry... a better eco and some nice micro and macro abilities, wouldn't you agree that you would be having a slightly upper hand???
from here on, may the best player win.
Regards .....
aSp]EvaNet[
Please tell me wat you guys think???
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Wait shouldnt this be in Brood War selection?
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EPT
