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I've had this happen to me twice now in TvP, and both times I've been raped horribly.
After the rise of FDTerran in TvP, every Protoss started going for an ultra-aggresive 2 gate strategy, which serves as a counter to FD if the Terran is too aggresive (Terrans, even on the pro level, usually are).
In response to this I've started using early expansion again. Initially I succeed exactly as I know I will. Protoss will try some Dragoon pressure but it won't do any lasting damage. But then the Protoss pulls a fast one one me and DT drops right into my base, cutting off my economy and supply for some time and rendering me ultimately unable to do shit.
What I'm asking for is how to prepare for a DT drop to come so I'm not totally raped. Even if it's not a total stoppage, the ability to quickly clear the DTs from my base would be nice.
To all the people who inevitably say "scout better," with no other substantiative advice. Fuck off. No Protoss, even at D level WGTour, is stupid enough to leave a scouting lane open, and it's impractical to get a comsat early enough to defend unless engineering bay is sacrificed (which may be a good idea, if anyone can comment on this that would be nice).
I would read the signs in order to see a drop coming, but it could also be a 3 gate strategy being prepared, of Protoss simply playing mind games (the latter happens rarely at D level, but meh).
Yes, I'm a D level Terran, I misclick a lot and often find myself in situations like this that I can't overcome, which makes me unable to be any good at the game whatsoever.
I'll try to make a replay of myself where I don't play like total shit in the near future.
Any meaningful help is appreciated.
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Netherlands19135 Posts
2 well placed turrets a couple of well placed mines and a sieged tank and a vult or 2 around my main CC usually help fend off a fast rvr drop or a fast dt drop :o You gotta get entrenched a bit after a early expo anyway on your way to a decent army and dropships.
Mines win the game as long as you fend off drop possibility directly into your SCV line with proper turret placement. Get good building placement and turret placement and you can narrow it down where he can moves his DTs through your base and where hes gotta drop and mine that up.
I usually comsat around 60ish psi btw dunno if thats any help. Early goon pressure suggests hes not rushing to a DT drop but going goon obs first and puts some heat onto your push and ramp/choke.
(And yes a replay would be nice <3)
[edit: what number of DTs are you having a problem with? If he drops like 7-8 of the fuckers into your main pretty early on without scan you are pretty fucked yeh if you didnt see it comming  . If it's like 2-4 with mines and a tank you should be ok like I said. Else add a vult or 2 next to the tank. Whatever you do with mines, make sure you dont allow them to be triggered by DT within your scv line....)
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if you can't get your timing right with turrets when you use "FDTerran" tech just don't use it damnit. Fast expand instead it's easier to defend against it and put your engineering bay on top of your most important turret always. It's just about timing.
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On June 27 2006 05:02 Hollow wrote:
if you can't get your timing right with turrets when you use "FDTerran" tech just don't use it damnit. Fast expand instead it's easier to defend against it and put your engineering bay on top of your most important turret always. It's just about timing.
Learn to read.
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On June 27 2006 04:57 Nyovne wrote:2 well placed turrets a couple of well placed mines and a sieged tank and a vult or 2 around my main CC usually help fend off a fast rvr drop or a fast dt drop :o You gotta get entrenched a bit after a early expo anyway on your way to a decent army and dropships. Mines win the game as long as you fend off drop possibility directly into your SCV line with proper turret placement. Get good building placement and turret placement and you can narrow it down where he can moves his DTs through your base and where hes gotta drop and mine that up. I usually comsat around 60ish psi btw dunno if thats any help. Early goon pressure suggests hes not rushing to a DT drop but going goon obs first and puts some heat onto your push and ramp/choke. (And yes a replay would be nice <3) [edit: what number of DTs are you having a problem with? If he drops like 7-8 of the fuckers into your main pretty early on without scan you are pretty fucked yeh if you didnt see it comming . If it's like 2-4 with mines and a tank you should be ok like I said. Else add a vult or 2 next to the tank. Whatever you do with mines, make sure you dont allow them to be triggered by DT within your scv line....)
LIke 2-4
Can you lay out a rough build order for what you're suggesting? The concepts make sense but I wouldn't know when to get acad/vults & ups
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Try researching mine before seige mode, and set them through out the base (2 vult is all you need). By the time you have the CC done, there should be around 4 marine 2 tanks (more coming) and 2 vult. The siege mode should be finished soon. Move out carefully because of the lack of number in tanks.
After you know the nat is secured with tanks, start E-bay in your main. Build one turret near CC and float the E-bay over it. This prevents the DT from stopping your mining effectively. Assuming you can micro to pick off the DT with the 2 vultures. They can still try to hit depots though.
I personally prefer to get comsat right after first fac when I plan to fast expand (before cc). I know it delays build somewhat, but most Toss just don't expect it. Scan their base right after the comsat is complete, you might get lucky. Double comsat that early in the game can really help in drop or vult harassing.
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Well the thing is that if you fast expo you should be expecting either DT or reav drop. Or even 3 gate goons + shuttle with zeals. So yeah, it's pretty tricky. But try the folowing things (btw i'm a toss player so this is from a toss point of view):
a) Try and scout his expo. If he hasn't got any by the time yours is operational, spend a bit extra money on defence (like one more turret)
b) Mines. If he uses anything but a 2 gate goon + obs strategy, then mines will save the day. Just get a turret near the mineral line with a siege tank, and mine the area where he will most likely drop, or come from after drop (if it's a large island you're on, like gaia). 3 mines placed well will cripple his drop no matter if it's dt or reav. The key is to not waste TOO much money on defending. Don't over-turret your main, don't use 4-5 vultures just to mine around your base. You need those for scouting and stuff.
c) Just remember that if toss does this, he is a bit behind in eco. DT drop is harder than all other strats for toss if it doesn't pay off. You have to pay for robo fact, citadel, templar arhives AND 2-4 darks before you get an expo. Not to mention you're wasting precious gas on dragoon harass. While they're all useful buildings for later on, you get a really hard kick in the economy. So if the dt drop fails to a couple of mines, you got a HUGE advantage.
Also, not the best idea to research mine before siege. I love it when I go 2 gate goons + range and terr doesn't get siege. It's too easy really. One-two tanks can't hold of 4 goons + reinforcements, and you don't get much more from one fact with fast expo by the time he gets there. If he harasses for a long time, then the drop will come in late, so feel free to upgrade mines after the siege mode is complete. Although, I do admit that both would be great.
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get scan and ~2 vultures. you have 2 CCs so 2 comsats, get acad after 2nd fac and you should have scan finished just after he drops you (turrets do initial defence, but you shouldn't need more than ~3 of these to defend - 1 at ramp, and 1 at both CCs)
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On June 27 2006 05:58 sdG)Sakura-JAP wrote:
Try researching mine before seige mode, and set them through out the base (2 vult is all you need). By the time you have the CC done, there should be around 4 marine 2 tanks (more coming) and 2 vult. The siege mode should be finished soon. Move out carefully because of the lack of number in tanks.
After you know the nat is secured with tanks, start E-bay in your main. Build one turret near CC and float the E-bay over it. This prevents the DT from stopping your mining effectively. Assuming you can micro to pick off the DT with the 2 vultures. They can still try to hit depots though.
so basically you're recommending that he goes FD terran...
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uhhhh normally a tvsp build is 6 rine 1 tank + 1-2 vultures(exp) when u do this rush you should easily be able to push toss because he has 2-3 goons no more, while your attack the templar archive should be almost done (if hes going for a robo drop his archive is going to be very late) but alot of players would go for the fast dt rush without robo which is pretty easy to counter seeing as you have mines already and you should have engeenering by then. Anyways when you attck youll probable see the temp archive so just make some well placed turrets on the edge of your base and 1 turret at your scv with 1-2 tanks, the remaining tanks should be @ your exp and will easily take care of the goons, you can go for a bunker at your exp if you see his build is ''all in'' type.
so heres what the build should basicly look like
7rine 1 tank 1-2 vult+mine rush(1fact) > exp > bay > turret protection and take it from there
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i find that making a bunker with 2 rines in it and floating ur ebay over a turret that can see most of ur min line stops every dt drop that targets the mineral line. then place like 8 mines total around all your depots or w/e other buildings you want to protect. you can even try to put mines in front of the bunker because the dts will target the bunker most of the time.
100 extra minerals is nothing if you stop the dts.
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So you're going to use make a bunker with rines, turret, and like 8 mines even though, as he said, you didn't see the DTs comming? I'm not a Terran player but I think thats a bit much every time you play ;(
Whenever I go for a DT drop, I find it most annoying having 2 turrets there. 1 at the mineral line and one between the depots/facs area along with a tank or some shit. If there is anything more there then I will most likely just pick back up my DTs and get the fuck out so I can use them for something else.
The more money you waste on static the more I have to rethink letting my ninjas die.
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On June 27 2006 08:59 Resonate wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2006 05:58 sdG)Sakura-JAP wrote:
Try researching mine before seige mode, and set them through out the base (2 vult is all you need). By the time you have the CC done, there should be around 4 marine 2 tanks (more coming) and 2 vult. The siege mode should be finished soon. Move out carefully because of the lack of number in tanks.
After you know the nat is secured with tanks, start E-bay in your main. Build one turret near CC and float the E-bay over it. This prevents the DT from stopping your mining effectively. Assuming you can micro to pick off the DT with the 2 vultures. They can still try to hit depots though.
so basically you're recommending that he goes FD terran...
lol never thought of it that way 
nah.. the cc should start much earlier than FD terran, and you are staying 1 fac much longer than FD.
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wait......which should you build first.......the engineering bay or the academy for the scanner in this situation?
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Belgium9947 Posts
imo you should realise the huge difference between a dt build and a dtdrop build after his 2gate goon
If he goes 2 gate goon without range: basically you should be fine with your FD terran build. You can probably push him back all the way to his base if he doesnt make range, you put the usual mines in front of his choke and blocking his expo. Basicly you have an advantage now and you know he's probably cheesing, so you get ebay right after cc, and make sure you're safe against 1) normal dt build, and a little later 2) dt drop
If he goes 2 gate goon with range: his dt or dtdrop will be so late it doesnt really pose a challenge, just make sure it doesnt catch you as a surprise. If he goes 2 gate range and you fd, he'll most of the times expo along with you, but you should try to check this in case he does some weird shit like dt or dtdrop after 2 gate range goon pressure. you'll easily do fine with ebay after 2nd fact.
oh yeah, and build those turrets wisely, their position matters alot :o
edit: ofcourse I'm only giving directions about countering dt/dt drop, I'm not even considering a reaver build, although its almost the same
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someone to explain to me what FD Terran is? I know what Fact CC and Fast expo are for TvP but this term escapes me
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Hmm, i remember boxer vs a toss(maybe anytime) on rov, where boxer makes fast expo(with siege) and gets perfect timing as his academy is done exactly when his 2nd cc is done so he makes 1 scanner in main, another at the 2nd cc(also in main, without floating it), and the third one at expo
Guess that can help you in guessing his tech:D, and also have 1-2 scans if he makes dts
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On June 27 2006 12:36 Aukai wrote:someone to explain to me what FD Terran is? I know what Fact CC and Fast expo are for TvP but this term escapes me
Don't take my word for it but you rushe toss w/ rine/tank/vult+mine and scvs to scare the toss back while taking your own expo.
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Most of the time i go with a fast expo, especially on Luna. Just research mines, then siege. Place some mines on your choke or before the choke. Make a turet in main in middle of SCVs. Then on dt atack just mess up the DT that he can't attack the turet, and send reinforcments. When my second expo is building a make an ebay, after the expo is finished i make the academy. The easiest way for knowing the strategy is scouting and estimating his army (just see inside his base, number of pylons,..) then just see how many dragons hes got. If not many u can expect drop or DT rush. Research of siege should be also finished when your 2 expo is. U just have to find your timing.
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What happens if there are lots in front to take out the mines?
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On June 27 2006 12:00 sdG)Sakura-JAP wrote:lol never thought of it that way nah.. the cc should start much earlier than FD terran, and you are staying 1 fac much longer than FD.
I personally prefer to get comsat right after first fac when I plan to fast expand (before cc). I know it delays build somewhat, but most Toss just don't expect it. Scan their base right after the comsat is complete, you might get lucky. Double comsat that early in the game can really help in drop or vult harassing.
how can you get comsat after fac and before cc and still make cc before normal FD terran? I'm really confused about your BO, maybe host a rep?
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scout better.
Scout his unit numbers and use a floating building to scout his nat (not on cross positions). If he has an expo THEN dt drops i dont understand how u wouldnt be prepared... need replay yes i know u said dont say scout better but i did it just to annoy u.
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EPT
