Oz got an ace match on Battle Royal again? Lucky bastards they are..
KTF used Flash on Battle Royal?!?!?!??!?!?!! I don't even get it...they have the undisputed 2nd best ZvZer on the scene and they decide not to use him on a map that he's 90% guaranteed to get ZvZ on? What the hell?
I think Terran have figured something out for Battle Royal - theres no way KTF / Khan would throw a T away on a imba map, so the zergs coming out better be ready.
*edit*
WHAT THE FUCK SAVIOR VS FIREBATHERO HOW DID I MISS THAT AT FIRST GLANCE HOLY SHIT HE COULD WIN IT
hmm. did the "You cant send the same race for the same map in 2 consecutive games" rule get abolished? KTF is sending the same players for the same maps! lol.
Thats going to be one of the matches of the week. I hope Sea's found enough form to make it a contest last time they met july expressed his nuts on Sea's face. They had an amazing 30min match a while back that you couldnt tell the winner of til until the end.
That match is one of my all time favs everytime they meet I hope for a repeat.
On April 16 2009 13:34 Atrioc wrote: I think Terran have figured something out for Battle Royal - theres no way KTF / Khan would throw a T away on a imba map, so the zergs coming out better be ready.
Yeah, Flash has the ultimate strategy for the map in mind: "Looksie here, I figured I'ma gonna do a quick 14CC to gain the economic advantage against my zerg opponent!!!"
On April 16 2009 13:34 Atrioc wrote: I think Terran have figured something out for Battle Royal - theres no way KTF / Khan would throw a T away on a imba map, so the zergs coming out better be ready.
Yeah, Flash has the ultimate strategy for the map in mind: "Looksie here, I figured I'ma gonna do a quick 14CC to gain the economic advantage against my zerg opponent!!!"
Fuck, Canata is playing a TvT. After that ridiculous bullshit of a game between him and Shine, there's no way in hell I'm watching him play another fucking TvT. Fuck Battlecruisers.
FBH - Savior (PLEASE Maestro) Best - Stork (on Battle Royal no less!) JD - Fantasy (obviously)
Also I don't get why everyone's making a big deal out of Flash going on Battle Royal. First of all, we've only had ONE week of games on it and there have been zero televised TvZs on it.
Second, it's FLASH, who has annihilated every Zerg player he's played in 2009 (minus one game against the king Jaedong, and he's beaten Jaedong twice in 09 too). What Zergs should he have been scared of on MBC or ACE? There's not a single Zerg within three tiers of Flash on either team....
edit: And I don't really get why everybody's so excited for Fantasy vs. Jaedong, it's probably going to be Fantasy going for some all-in cheese or bizzare specialty build, and Jaedong catching on to it and owning him
PREPARE TO BE SCHOOLED BISU BACKHO IS BACK IN BUSINESS AND HE IS VERY ANGRY SO ANGRY THAT NOT EVEN JAEDONG WOULD DARE TO STAND IN HIS WAY ROOOOOAAAAAR WHITE TIGER HWAITING!!!!! Anyway, I guess it is a balance issue that every proleague game with hwaseung has got battle royal for ace so that jaedong can't take the free point until after the opponents have had a fair chance to beat him. I don't get why Young gets to start against CJ though, why don't use Backho, who at least once upon a time could play the game, both young and spear has proven completely terribad :S
Thats going to be one of the matches of the week. I hope Sea's found enough form to make it a contest last time they met july expressed his nuts on Sea's face. They had an amazing 30min match a while back that you couldnt tell the winner of til until the end.
Bah. I want the real rematch. Jaedong vs. SkyHigh! And we might get it in the Ace match.
There's no way Jaedong and Hiya are going to lose to Movie and Kwanro without some epic cheese. And even that won't be enough. Likewise, there's no way SkyHigh and Savior are going to lose to Young and ggaemo. It will come down to the Ace match. Neo Medusa seems reasonably Zerg balanced, and Jaedong is... Jaedong. Knowing that, CJ's best/only chance is to put SkyHigh up.
God, I want to see Jaedong prove himself against this guy. I want to see some Jaedong vs. forGG-style humiliation. Or maybe some Jaedong vs. Iris-style humiliation (all Mutalisks). Something that shows that SkyHigh has no place even playing in the game as Jaedong.
On April 16 2009 20:26 Sunyveil wrote: edit: And I don't really get why everybody's so excited for Fantasy vs. Jaedong, it's probably going to be Fantasy going for some all-in cheese or bizzare specialty build, and Jaedong catching on to it and owning him
Yeah, just like every set of their lame-ass OSL Final...
...oh wait...
that was one of the best series in recent memory, and Fantasy won sets 1 and 2 with huge style.
On April 16 2009 20:26 Sunyveil wrote: edit: And I don't really get why everybody's so excited for Fantasy vs. Jaedong, it's probably going to be Fantasy going for some all-in cheese or bizzare specialty build, and Jaedong catching on to it and owning him
Yeah, just like every set of their lame-ass OSL Final...
...oh wait...
that was one of the best series in recent memory, and Fantasy won sets 1 and 2 with huge style.
um, but how much better would Bisu vs. Jaedong have been, considering Bisu is actually competent at playing standard (GASP) (vs. Z) so that the game is between two players instead of one player and a build?
Try to say "Fantasy would have taken a game from Jaedong if he had gone Bio" with a straight face.
On April 16 2009 20:26 Sunyveil wrote: edit: And I don't really get why everybody's so excited for Fantasy vs. Jaedong, it's probably going to be Fantasy going for some all-in cheese or bizzare specialty build, and Jaedong catching on to it and owning him
Yeah, just like every set of their lame-ass OSL Final...
...oh wait...
that was one of the best series in recent memory, and Fantasy won sets 1 and 2 with huge style.
um, but how much better would Bisu vs. Jaedong have been, considering Bisu is actually competent at playing standard (GASP) (vs. Z) so that the game is between two players instead of one player and a build?
Try to say "Fantasy would have taken a game from Jaedong if he had gone Bio" with a straight face.
Right. It's impossible.
You really think that mech builds are "non-standard" vs. Z in the Batoo OSL's map pool? Come on...
Fantasy's builds are part of his strength as a player (not some sort of disembodied entity which occupies the booth with him on game days), and personally I think they make his games more exciting...you never really know what to expect from him (mech often, yes, but there are many variants).
Who cares whether Fantasy could beat JD with bio? That's totally irrelevant to whether their games are entertaining. Could Bisu beat JD without forge FE? He'd probably have a harder time but...so what? Forge FE is part of SC just like mech TvZ is.
On April 16 2009 20:26 Sunyveil wrote: edit: And I don't really get why everybody's so excited for Fantasy vs. Jaedong, it's probably going to be Fantasy going for some all-in cheese or bizzare specialty build, and Jaedong catching on to it and owning him
Yeah, just like every set of their lame-ass OSL Final...
...oh wait...
that was one of the best series in recent memory, and Fantasy won sets 1 and 2 with huge style.
um, but how much better would Bisu vs. Jaedong have been, considering Bisu is actually competent at playing standard (GASP) (vs. Z) so that the game is between two players instead of one player and a build?
Try to say "Fantasy would have taken a game from Jaedong if he had gone Bio" with a straight face.
Right. It's impossible.
You really think that mech builds are "non-standard" vs. Z in the Batoo OSL's map pool? Come on...
Fantasy's builds are part of his strength as a player (not some sort of disembodied entity which occupies the booth with him on game days), and personally I think they make his games more exciting...you never really know what to expect from him (mech often, yes, but there are many variants).
Who cares whether Fantasy could beat JD with bio? That's totally irrelevant to whether their games are entertaining. Could Bisu beat JD without forge FE? He'd probably have a harder time but...so what? Forge FE is part of SC just like mech TvZ is.
More like mech always, and if he doesn't get an insurmountable lead over Jaedong in the early game he's probably screwed.
I didn't say mech builds are non-standard, I implied that fantasy is incompetent at standard TvZ, and all 5 games in the series followed the above point.
Either Fantasy was way ahead early, or JD just rolled over him
On April 17 2009 07:25 Sunyveil wrote: ... Either Fantasy was way ahead early, or JD just rolled over him
This is entirely inaccurate. What do you mean by "way ahead"? Because what saw in game one of Batoo finals was Jaedong getting rolled, and it wasn't because of some allin build early on. Fantasy was the one playing safe. Who cares if he builds a valk or two instead of the normal mm progression?
Of course terrans can't be Jaedong "standard" because standard is their mm dying to mutas. If that's your definition of standard, which it appears to be, then almost nobody can beat Jaedong in "standard" TvZ.
On April 17 2009 07:25 Sunyveil wrote: More like mech always, and if he doesn't get an insurmountable lead over Jaedong in the early game he's probably screwed.
Other than Flash a few months ago, just about every Terran in the world fits into this category.
If you don't get an insurmountable lead over Flash in the early game you're probably screwed. If you don't get an insurmountable lead over Bisu in the early game you're probably screwed. If you don't get an insurmountable lead over Jaedong in the early game you're probably screwed.
It's called "being the favorite".
I didn't say mech builds are non-standard, I implied that fantasy is incompetent at standard TvZ, and all 5 games in the series followed the above point.
Right, and this point is entirely useless to the debate about the quality of the finals. Players play to their strengths. Why would anyone go standard TvZ against Jaedong when theres an 80% chance you die to the first 12 mutas?
You started the argument by making this comment:
On April 16 2009 20:26 Sunyveil wrote: edit: And I don't really get why everybody's so excited for Fantasy vs. Jaedong, it's probably going to be Fantasy going for some all-in cheese or bizzare specialty build, and Jaedong catching on to it and owning him
Which was entirely wrong. Fantasy didn't do any all ins game 1 and 2 and won those games. The only true "all-in" was the wraith build in game 4. Vulture runbys and standard mech are not allin. Credit to Jaedong for pulling out the series but it was incredibly close. Even game 5, which was decided basically by a single drone and two lings.
JWD points this out to you, and you come back with:
On April 17 2009 06:49 Sunyveil wrote: um, but how much better would Bisu vs. Jaedong have been, considering Bisu is actually competent at playing standard (GASP) (vs. Z) so that the game is between two players instead of one player and a build?
Nobody was saying Fantasy vs. Jaedong would be better than Bisu vs Jaedong. He was just refuting your point that all fantasy was going to do is all-in and get owned. That's not what happened. To reduce what happened in Batoo finals to a game between "a player and a build" shows a flawed and ignorant understanding in what happened in those finals games. Save for game 4, none of fantasy's builds were allin. They were creative, efficient counters to Jaedong's style, and the vast majority of them aimed for late game advantages.
Try to say "Fantasy would have taken a game from Jaedong if he had gone Bio" with a straight face.
Right. It's impossible.
What does this have to do with anything? Playing against bio is Jaedongs strength. That's why the statement "Fantasy wouldn't have taken a game if he went standard Bio" is stupid and short sighted. Of course Fantasy can't beat Jaedong doing exactly what other Terrans have tried and failed against Jaedong. Do you think Fantasy is a retarded idiot? There was 0 chance he was ever playing normal bio because that's Jaedong's strength.
It's like saying, do you think X zerg can beat Bisu if he lets Bisu get to late game harass without damaging him? It's pointless to play what-ifs when the scenario is the best-case for one player.
Do you think Jaedong would have taken one game from Fantasy if he let 4 vultures into his base every game? Try to say "Jaedong would have taken a game from Fantasy if he hadn't gone mutalisks" with a straight face.
On April 17 2009 07:48 Hot_Bid wrote: Do you think Jaedong would have taken one game from Fantasy if he let 4 vultures into his base every game? Try to say "Jaedong would have taken a game from Fantasy if he hadn't gone mutalisks" with a straight.
Technically, though I agree with your point in general, Jaedong did beat Fantasy last time they played without going mutalisks and instead went 2 base lurker / queen / defiler
On April 17 2009 16:12 JFKWT wrote: Don't flame me for this, but imho in CJ vs Oz HiyA won't be able to take the pressure of taking game 3 and taking on Kwanro's aggro style..
I will seriously ROFL so hard if MBC mangles KTF in the first 3 matchups so that flash, placed to play 4th again, doesn't even get to go into the booth. light over forgg, hmm... pusan over violet definately. I guess sea can roll luxury up if lux feels like its a spore colony day again. -__-
CJ vs OZ Savior vs FBH Fantasy vs Jaedong what a great week =D CJ vs OZ is a har choice, i belive savior willl destroy fbh and i just see fantasy beating jaedong for some reason hope not
On April 18 2009 15:14 whatusername wrote: i dont get why stx isnt using by.hero in PL? i mean, the kid's a beast
This is actually the biggest mystery to me as well. Maybe they're just saving him, or maybe he's not good at ZvZ and they're afraid of that matchup, or maybe he's not doing well internally (seems unlikely though).
One thing's for sure, he has money ZvT and is the best ZvP player nobody knows about. + Show Spoiler [GOM] +
I still can't get over how little credit Tasteless and Daniel Lee gave Hero during GOM when talking about his chances versus Kal. Honestly? He's the favorite against Kal in my opinion.
On April 16 2009 13:11 Rostam wrote: Oz got an ace match on Battle Royal again? Lucky bastards they are..
KTF used Flash on Battle Royal?!?!?!??!?!?!! I don't even get it...they have the undisputed 2nd best ZvZer on the scene and they decide not to use him on a map that he's 90% guaranteed to get ZvZ on? What the hell?
BACKHOOOOOOOOOOOO
I believe their thinking is that Luxurys ZvJ is far worse than his ZvZ. Look at jeadongs win percentage vs zergs and do the math
Hey everyone, anyone thought the BeSt v Stork on Battle Royal looked a little bit weird after 10 ZvZ's and 9000 TvZs? According to Fomos it is actually held on Heartbreak ridge (The SKT vs Khan match). Just a heads up, it should be fixed on the TL Calandar as well.
EPT
OversKy<Battle Royal>
Casy<Heartbreak Ridge>
Anytime<Neo Medusa>
![[image loading]](http://www.fomos.kr/board/news/1239854854_1.jpg)
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